cars with LPG

[Bpuumike]

I happen to live opposite one of the few LPG stations in Bangkok. There is always a 300m - 500m queue of taxis waiting to be filled (and they don't like to be off the road).

Get into the sticks and they are few and far between once you leave the main highways.

From my other home in Kalasin it's an 80km round trip just to fill up. The main reason I would not consider it.

[PattayaPhom]

CNG not LPG I think

Sent from my TRUE BEYOND 4G using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Sakeopete]

After seeing news pictures of all the vans incinerated after accidents I think I'll stay with diesel.

[Travel Dude]

Well I bought a Seat Cordoba with high mileage and LP, don't know how long the LP was in the car prior to my purchase but we owned it almost 2 years and drove it quite a bit in that time. I sold it a little under 2 years ago, the new owner didn't drive it that much as I understand but he has now sold it on due to leaving the country for medical reasons, to my knowledge it's still going strong and it wasn't a young buck when I acquired it. I did give it a proper tuning however which is a large part of the problem there.

Where can you get your car properly tuned/adjusted in bangkok? Who do you recommend?

[Travel Dude]

Mine gets an average of 10.5 liter per 100 km on propane, at 14.76 per liter

13 liter per 100 km on 95, at 44 per liter (the most expensive gas, but it likes it)

No brainer for me.

Am checking out the new MPFI systems, but at 20K I don't know if I will live long enuf to recoup.

Propane = THB 155 per 100 km

95 = THB 572 per 100 km

Difference = THB 417 per 100 km or 4.17 per km.

Investment in LPG conversion is THB. 20,000

So Return on Investment is 20,000 / 4.17 = 4,796 km ! after that you save over THB 400 for every 100 km you drive.

I drive 20.000 a year so savings would be 83,400 THB per year

But of course if you already have propane installed... What is the consumption and price per Liter when using a new MPFI system?

[WarpSpeed]

Well I bought a Seat Cordoba with high mileage and LP, don't know how long the LP was in the car prior to my purchase but we owned it almost 2 years and drove it quite a bit in that time. I sold it a little under 2 years ago, the new owner didn't drive it that much as I understand but he has now sold it on due to leaving the country for medical reasons, to my knowledge it's still going strong and it wasn't a young buck when I acquired it. I did give it a proper tuning however which is a large part of the problem there.

Where can you get your car properly tuned/adjusted in bangkok? Who do you recommend?

Sorry I can't recommend anyone, I always did it myself, which is also the case with most everything related to my car and I'm no longer there so can't even recommend myself ..

[Travel Dude]

Got my car fixed yesterday .I forgot to tell members that we went to Toyota and asked them the problem first , they came back with replacement of all the valves and they would have the car for 3 days and a cost of 32000 baht!! Our gas mechanic gave us a number in Angsila chon buri . He said come back in 34 hours and will be fixed . Went went back and he showed me what he fixed , 1 exhaust valve was damaged .The car runs great again ..Cost was ....1000baht!! I tried to give in more but refused to take it . He told me about the wind in my gearbox which I new about and he will put in a change over one for 9000 baht.. His yard was a typical junk yard , had motors everywhere and old cars. He had about 30 cars to fix and a staff of 10.He told my wife in the next yard was all the cars from service centers he fixes for them as they cannot do it .I have never seen a man as honest as this in my life . I would have paid him whatever he ask a long as it was below Toyota price.Oh , Toyota told my wife the had to send the car outside to be fixed . .As you can see the pics , a real junkyard to some , a treasure chest to others.

kevvy

Hi Kevvy, Could you please let us know who this great mechanic is and how we can know where he exactly is located? Thank you

[Travel Dude]

Hello Mate

my wife just rang him..He done a valve grind, new head gasket and tuning and spacing . He said that is what he charges for a valve grind. He has the new reco auto gearbox there with the gaskets. I will tell you more on Monday . I offered this man a thousand baht tip and he refused to take it . I just dont know as I never have come across a mechanic like this before .

kevvy

You CAN'T offer an honest man a 1000 baht tip on a 1000 baht job. That's really insulting. I am sure he does not want to feel like the car hooker.,, You meant well but IMHO it is completely inappropriate to throw your money at him...

[Torrens54]

When we came back to live in CNX a few years ago, we bought a RAV-4 from a relative.

It had been "converted" to take LPG but still used Petrol, if required.

Firstly, never buy a car from a relative. How do you SCREAM at them when everything known to science goes wrong with the car?

Aside from the space the Gas Cylinder took up, I could ALWAYS SMELL Gas in the car, but no one could sort out the problem. To top this off, the heap of Buffalo Excrement, (Rav 4) had to have Major Surgery on just about everything.

We promptly traded the thing and bought a Honda CRV. Brilliant car, runs on Petrol but is very economical and NO SMELL of LPG!

[poweratradio]

Not sure they save fuel but its cheaper to fill than petrol/benzene/gasoline.

I wouldn't use an aftermarket kit, only from the manufacturer if I went that route.

Lots of stations around with it.

Had it on my Van in Canada and it was a clean burn with pretty much zero carbon deposits and the mileage was about 90% of of regular fuel. The tank took a direct hit from a rear ender accident and never dented. The offending car was folded up like an accordion.

[seedy]

But of course if you already have propane installed... What is the consumption and price per Liter when using a new MPFI system?

Therein lies the rub - will I get enuf of a mileage increase to justify the investment ?

Seat of the pants - no.

[nuomici]

I own a 2009 Honda Civic which came with LPG. The LPG conversion was made in late 2012. I recently went to the Honda dealer to have my coolant replaced. While waiting in the waiting room the customer service guy came and told me the car had a problem. I do not speak Thai and he spoke only a little English. He made it sound like my engine may or will have a serious problem in the future because it may begin to over heat. I did point out to him the temperature gauge always appeared to be normal, almost reaching the half way point between C and H. I normally drive around 2000 - 2500 rpm. Finally, by showing me a Civic schematic, he was saying that the engine runs hotter because the water hose that is installed to the radiator for LPG is much longer and therefore doesn't cool down the engine down enough. He said this is a problem with many Honda cars with LPG.

Is what he said accurate that water hoses for LPG are normally longer than the original one?

I was also confused why he showed me that when they topped off the radiator with water while the engine was running that it was boiling over. Isn't that what should happen when water gets heated by a running engine? Was this supposed to show me that the car had a problem?

Hey Folks, this thread was dormant for 2 months. I thought I would ask my question here rather than start a new one.

Only one person really addressed what I asked. I was hoping more of you LPG techies would way in.

I was trying to ascertain whether the Honda people were being ignorant and raising false red flags about LPG or bringing up a real issue.

Of course, the fact they and I didn't share a common language didn't help.

[WarpSpeed]

Was it boiling over or bubbling over? If there was bubbles coming from it then there is a possible problem with a head gasket and compression escaping into the water jacket, can't see how that has any relation to longer hoses and such or LPG unless the hoses to warm the LPG has been installed in such a way that it bypasses the head. Just guessing here because not exactly certain of the temp sensor location on your car but if it does do that your sensor may not be properly sensing your head temp and thus it may have over-heated without you knowing it. If it was just boiling over, that will happen with the cap off as the water has a place to escape from instead of being forced through the system like it is when the cap is on. But also don't have any clue why a 2009 would have these problems, not enough info to make an accurate diagnosis.

Edited June 8, 2014 by WarpSpeed

[gcgoldcoast]

yes you save money . The simple answer, why would you want to remove the LPG installation? Not smart

[nuomici]

Was it boiling over or bubbling over? If there was bubbles coming from it then there is a possible problem with a head gasket and compression escaping into the water jacket, can't see how that has any relation to longer hoses and such or LPG unless the hoses to warm the LPG has been installed in such a way that it bypasses the head. Just guessing here because not exactly certain of the temp sensor location on your car but if it does do that your sensor may not be properly sensing your head temp and thus it may have over-heated without you knowing it. If it was just boiling over, that will happen with the cap off as the water has a place to escape from instead of being forced through the system like it is when the cap is on. But also don't have any clue why a 2009 would have these problems, not enough info to make an accurate diagnosis.

"Was it boiling over or bubbling over?" I am not sure what is the difference between the two. The water appeared to be boiling over and one of the mechanics kept adding more water to the radiator. I assume the bubbles I saw was part of the boiling process. I am guessing that the LPG was used for about 15km to 20km.

[recycler]

Anybody knows where to get the modern liquid LPG injection installations in Thailand?

[WarpSpeed]

Was it boiling over or bubbling over? If there was bubbles coming from it then there is a possible problem with a head gasket and compression escaping into the water jacket, can't see how that has any relation to longer hoses and such or LPG unless the hoses to warm the LPG has been installed in such a way that it bypasses the head. Just guessing here because not exactly certain of the temp sensor location on your car but if it does do that your sensor may not be properly sensing your head temp and thus it may have over-heated without you knowing it. If it was just boiling over, that will happen with the cap off as the water has a place to escape from instead of being forced through the system like it is when the cap is on. But also don't have any clue why a 2009 would have these problems, not enough info to make an accurate diagnosis.

"Was it boiling over or bubbling over?" I am not sure what is the difference between the two. The water appeared to be boiling over and one of the mechanics kept adding more water to the radiator. I assume the bubbles I saw was part of the boiling process. I am guessing that the LPG was used for about 15km to 20km.

No, if there was air coming out it was bubbling, not boiling, boiling happens with a very low water content and you wouldn't be able to open the cap without getting burnt. The air was likely being injected into the water jacket through a bad head gasket from one of the cylinders.. If your temp sensor says temp is good it is likely not boiling over at that point, it would just push the water out of the collection can but it wouldn't be "boiling", hard to be very accurate without actually seeing what's going on and doing physical tests, all else is at best speculation..

[nuomici]

Was it boiling over or bubbling over? If there was bubbles coming from it then there is a possible problem with a head gasket and compression escaping into the water jacket, can't see how that has any relation to longer hoses and such or LPG unless the hoses to warm the LPG has been installed in such a way that it bypasses the head. Just guessing here because not exactly certain of the temp sensor location on your car but if it does do that your sensor may not be properly sensing your head temp and thus it may have over-heated without you knowing it. If it was just boiling over, that will happen with the cap off as the water has a place to escape from instead of being forced through the system like it is when the cap is on. But also don't have any clue why a 2009 would have these problems, not enough info to make an accurate diagnosis.

"Was it boiling over or bubbling over?" I am not sure what is the difference between the two. The water appeared to be boiling over and one of the mechanics kept adding more water to the radiator. I assume the bubbles I saw was part of the boiling process. I am guessing that the LPG was used for about 15km to 20km.

No, if there was air coming out it was bubbling, not boiling, boiling happens with a very low water content and you wouldn't be able to open the cap without getting burnt. The air was likely being injected into the water jacket through a bad head gasket from one of the cylinders.. If your temp sensor says temp is good it is likely not boiling over at that point, it would just push the water out of the collection can but it wouldn't be "boiling", hard to be very accurate without actually seeing what's going on and doing physical tests, all else is at best speculation..

With our limited language exchange, he didn't give me the impression that there was a current problem except that the water hose was too long compare to the original one and was causing the engine to run hotter.. He said that in the future the engine could begin to overheat. He recommended that I have the LPG removed. After further discussion, he told me that I would have to return to replace the radiator as well. It didn't sound like there is a real problem right now. Since the Honda mechanics don't deal with LPG, are they familiar on how it runs? Are brand name (Honda, Toyota) Thai mechanics known to exaggerate a problem to drum up business?

Edited June 8, 2014 by nuomici

[Daniel Boon]

Material mega joules per kilogram

*Petrol 45 to 48.3

*Diesel 48.1

*Natural gas 38 to 50

*Methane 19 to 22.7

Ethanol 23.4 to 26.8

[Ace of Pop]

But ferangs here go Lotus once a a Month, no Hi Klics no saving, ask any Taxi Driver. They top up on Gas at anti social hours so they dont sit in outside for 2Hrs like muppets.. So Muppets... enjoy you dream..

[WarpSpeed]

Was it boiling over or bubbling over? If there was bubbles coming from it then there is a possible problem with a head gasket and compression escaping into the water jacket, can't see how that has any relation to longer hoses and such or LPG unless the hoses to warm the LPG has been installed in such a way that it bypasses the head. Just guessing here because not exactly certain of the temp sensor location on your car but if it does do that your sensor may not be properly sensing your head temp and thus it may have over-heated without you knowing it. If it was just boiling over, that will happen with the cap off as the water has a place to escape from instead of being forced through the system like it is when the cap is on. But also don't have any clue why a 2009 would have these problems, not enough info to make an accurate diagnosis.

"Was it boiling over or bubbling over?" I am not sure what is the difference between the two. The water appeared to be boiling over and one of the mechanics kept adding more water to the radiator. I assume the bubbles I saw was part of the boiling process. I am guessing that the LPG was used for about 15km to 20km.

No, if there was air coming out it was bubbling, not boiling, boiling happens with a very low water content and you wouldn't be able to open the cap without getting burnt. The air was likely being injected into the water jacket through a bad head gasket from one of the cylinders.. If your temp sensor says temp is good it is likely not boiling over at that point, it would just push the water out of the collection can but it wouldn't be "boiling", hard to be very accurate without actually seeing what's going on and doing physical tests, all else is at best speculation..

With our limited language exchange, he didn't give me the impression that there was a current problem except that the water hose was too long compare to the original one and was causing the engine to run hotter.. He said that in the future the engine could begin to overheat. He recommended that I have the LPG removed. After further discussion, he told me that I would have to return to replace the radiator as well. It didn't sound like there is a real problem right now. Since the Honda mechanics don't deal with LPG, are they familiar on how it runs? Are brand name (Honda, Toyota) Thai mechanics known to exaggerate a problem to drum up business?

Short answer, Yes, but even worse they're known for not wanting to lose face not knowing and saying "I don't know", they're Thai, they "know" everything farang doesn't know.. I can't help out anymore then I already have without seeing it myself and that's not happening being stateside now, but, one last thing, a longer hose doesn't sound to be an issue IMO, added more coolant and water to make up the necessary deficit and there should be no adverse effect.. I'd definitely get second or maybe third opinion..

[WarpSpeed]

Material mega joules per kilogram

*Petrol 45 to 48.3

*Diesel 48.1

*Natural gas 38 to 50

*Methane 19 to 22.7

Ethanol 23.4 to 26.8

Ermmm, why no LPG listed? You have natural gas listed twice? Methane and natural are the same. LPG is propane not methane.

[Daniel Boon]

Material mega joules per kilogram

*Petrol 45 to 48.3

*Diesel 48.1

*Natural gas 38 to 50

*Methane 19 to 22.7

Ethanol 23.4 to 26.8

Ermmm, why no LPG listed? You have natural gas listed twice? Methane and natural are the same. LPG is propane not methane.

you related to 'gentleman jim' by any chance?

I posted this quickly (from a book I wrote) and had not included LPG (propane): but to address your observation (which you could have researched yourself and added to my post); in Australia, 1 kilo of LPG has a volume of 1.96 litres; therefore the megajoules in (a kilogram) LPG is about 45.7 ...

As to your observation of natural gas being 'the same' ... they are not 'the same' ... do some research yourself ... .

[WarpSpeed]

Yes Methane and Natural are the same, Lpg is propane, natural is mostly methane.. I didn't bother looking it up because my question was rhetorical.. I already knew the answers just wondered if you did?

[Daniel Boon]

Yes Methane and Natural are the same, Lpg is propane, natural is mostly methane.. I didn't bother looking it up because my question was rhetorical.. I already knew the answers just wondered if you did?

They are not 'the same' ... there are different forms of natural gas, generally called either conventional or unconventional gas. Conventional natural gas and CSG are chemically similar; CSG is almost pure methane whereas conventional natural gas is around 90% methane with ethane, propane and butane mostly making up the remainder.

So no, you only thought you knew the answer

[WarpSpeed]

Ok yes, good for you............................. Not..... Semantics, you can't purchase pure methane in Thailand only Natural gas product mixed with mostly Methane.. Most other relevant countries too, but since this a Thailand forum best keep the topic on what's available for use in Thailand yes??

[Daniel Boon]

Ok yes, good for you............................. Not..... Semantics, you can't purchase pure methane in Thailand only Natural gas product mixed with mostly Methane.. Most other relevant countries too, but since this a Thailand forum best keep the topic on what's available for use in Thailand yes??

There a female under that helmet?

you say semantics (when it please you to be so) and I suggest pernickety ... I left out LPG on a post and you jumped all over it ... saying methane and natural gas are the same ... I suggest sex and travel ...

[WarpSpeed]

Yes because LPG applies to Thailand and pure Methane doesn't.. BTW they are virtually the same and the difference is negligible which is why I posted semantics.. Female you say huh? I'll leave that one alone cause if so even more reason for you to be embarrassed being schooled in such a way..

[Daniel Boon]

Yes because LPG applies to Thailand and pure Methane doesn't.. BTW they are virtually the same and the difference is negligible which is why I posted semantics.. Female you say huh? I'll leave that one alone cause if so even more reason for you to be embarrassed being schooled in such a way..

'schooled' ... you are a fool

[WarpSpeed]

"Some would say"............But they'd be wrong..