Bank Of America Sucks. Recommendation For An Expat-friendly Bank?

[lemurlemur]

Hey everyone,

I have completely had it with Bank of America. Every single

thing I need to do (transfer funds, use ATM, check my balance)

costs an unreasonable amount of money. The last straw was

my last statement - $120 of service fees! (No, I didn't bounce

any checks or overdraw my account in any way.) Good God,

those guys are weasels.

So, I have a banking question for American expats who live in

Thailand. If you use an American bank from Thailand, which

one do you use? Do you like it? Do they kill you with banking

fees?

Any recommendations? Any other banks to avoid? I've heard

Washington Mutual is pretty good. Specifically, here's what I

want:

- good online banking system

- low ATM fees

- no monthly fee/very low monthly fee

- minimum balance is okay

- ability to transfer money to other banks without too much

trouble

Thanks in advance for any help.

Cheers,

- Steamed Farang in Thailand

[Misplaced]

This will be interesting and very helful indeed.

I was just in Thailand and used Bank of America Master card. To my surprise, they charged me a $20.00 fee to use the card internationally . I will also get rid of this card as soon as I paid-off my Thailand charges.

[toptuan]

As a former BofA employee, I sadly report that the emphasis of their overseas branches is to cater to big companies doing international business.

When you, as a peon individual living overseas, want to use their big-business international system, you will pay up the ying-yang for it. They want to discourage it, and are apparently doing a good job. $20 fee for using a credit card overseas? Obviously, you get their point.

[toptuan]

I find that a Thai bank, SCB, seems to fulfill all the requirements you listed:

- good online banking system

- low ATM fees

- no monthly fee/very low monthly fee

- minimum balance is okay

- ability to transfer money to other banks without too much trouble

I first chose them because of the friendly online banking system (in English). I pay no ATM fees (when using their ATMs), and no monthly fee for a savings account. Can easily transfer funds to other banks in Thailand. To transfer internationally using SCB, there's a thread on how to do that in a TV forum.

[Thaiquila]

Of course, the OP is asking for a US bank recommendation, not a Thai bank.

I can cite another US bank you want NOTHING to do with, WASHINGTON MUTUAL, a very big, so called "bank." They afford no way whatsoever to do international transfers without going in person into one of their US banks. Was told doing a setup prior to the transfer is not possible. Amazing.

A friend of mine recently opened a WACHOVIA BANK account and said their international transfer policies sounded quite reasonable and they have excellent online services (though transfers cannot be done online, must do a setup password first in the US, then I think call or fax). Any experienced users of Wachovia care to comment?

[lordofdelusion]

I too was with Bof A. Own the stock but don't bank with them. The stock is a good bet because they make so much money ripping us off.

I opened an online account with HSBC. Easy internet access to your account, bank to bank transfers and they gave me an atm card. Current interest rate is 4.65% too. Other online options that are similar are GMAC bank and etrade financial.

[oopapasan]

Of course, the OP is asking for a US bank recommendation, not a Thai bank.

I can cite another US bank you want NOTHING to do with, WASHINGTON MUTUAL, a very big, so called "bank." They afford no way whatsoever to do international transfers without going in person into one of their US banks. Was told doing a setup prior to the transfer is not possible. Amazing.

A friend of mine recently opened a WACHOVIA BANK account and said their international transfer policies sounded quite reasonable and they have excellent online services (though transfers cannot be done online, must do a setup password first in the US, then I think call or fax). Any experienced users of Wachovia care to comment?

American Express

[Gary A]

I use Citibank (California) and have no major complaints. They charge a flat $30 for a wire transfer regardless of the amount transferred. I think that is a little high but I understand some banks are higher. If you keep $6,000 US minimum in your accounts there is no charge for using the ATM. There IS a currency exchange charge. I read it was supposed to be 2% but according to my statements it is still 1%. A CD is considered as part of the $6,000 minimum. There are no service charges unless you drop below the $6,000 minimum. The online service is VERY good and I use it for wire transfers as well as transferring between my Citibank accounts. They did freeze my account for unusual (?) transactions but a phone call to a toll free Thai number took care of that. I really appreciate their free bill pay service. I use it to pay my occasional credit card charges.

[monochaser]

Of course, the OP is asking for a US bank recommendation, not a Thai bank.

I can cite another US bank you want NOTHING to do with, WASHINGTON MUTUAL, a very big, so called "bank." They afford no way whatsoever to do international transfers without going in person into one of their US banks. Was told doing a setup prior to the transfer is not possible. Amazing.

A friend of mine recently opened a WACHOVIA BANK account and said their international transfer policies sounded quite reasonable and they have excellent online services (though transfers cannot be done online, must do a setup password first in the US, then I think call or fax). Any experienced users of Wachovia care to comment?

I use Wachovia and I love them. I have a no fee checking account and ATM card and I withdraw cash as I need it, which is about $3000/mo. They charge around 1% on those ATM withdraws. One thing I do not do however is transfer cash to Thai banks. I don't trust Thai banks with my cash or anything else Thai for that matter. I keep all cash in USA and as I said, take cash out as need it use for immediate expenses. I never have more than a max 20K withdraw on hand unless I am paying my rent. Wachovia has a great website and I transfer around from them to other USA banks and brokerage accounts

[monochaser]

I checked citibank be4 opening a wachovia acct and found that citibank rapes you for minimum balances to waive fees. One thing about me, and I'm funny this way, I don't like getting raped so I went with Wachovia and their no fees and no min balance policy. The next time I want to get bent over, I will contact citibank and BOA right away.

Yes and also be sure to keep lump sums of cash away from Thai hands. Keep it in the comfy confines of a USA bank. I've been in Thailand 3 years and have been burned for well over 100K worth of security and real estate deposits as well as numerous defective big ticket products with no recourse to recoup cash. Now I have my only use the bare minimum of cash nesessary to maintain a good lifestyle here. Do not, I repeat do not buy anything here that you dont absolutely need. Buy your big stuff in regular countries that have quality control standards and normal refund policies. I'm convinced that Thailand can be a great country when following this standard

Edited June 4, 2006 by monochaser

[autonomous_unit]

I have heard other people bad mouth Wells Fargo, but I have had nothing but good experience with them. I agree on Washington Mutual and BoA, which my wife and I were still using when we moved to BKK. Trying to do some banking on a trip through the US, I got so angry with the Washington Mutual tellers that I closed my account and drove across town to deposit the check with Wells Fargo (in accounts I already had).

Wells Fargo do have a minimum balance requirement, and the more you have with them the better the deal, i.e. no fees, better interest rates. They have a good internet banking system and a dedicated hotline for expat customers. I am not sure about the wire transfer fees, as we only did one or two large transfers. They were flat fees, so it worked nicely for that purpose. Probably expensive, e.g. $40 or so? I am able to download PDF statements and also have paper copies sent to my mailing address in the US, for archiving.

However, I do not use my US ATM card here. I recommend the approach mentioned earlier in the thread... open a local account and use the US bank for US banking. I use it for paying US credit card bills, and even issuing checks by mail to individuals, without ever involving the Thai postal system.

[tjo o tjim]

Go for either a credit union or an internet bank like E*Trade.

The credit unions are by far the best deal, you just need to find one you are eligble to be a member of. ATM transactions at interbank rates, $1 fee per transaction in Thailand (but they refund up to $3 or 5 a month). Wire transfers can be a little more expensive (mine actually go through citibank), and the web interface is more basic. I find myself using "fax" again to process wire transfers, and there is no "bill payment" option.

The internet banks offer many of the same deals, but they are trying to make a profit.

If ACH transfers and bill payment are most important, go for the internet banks. If you want intrest bearing checking accounts with great atm rates, go for the credit unions.

[fred110]

Check out Discover Bank whether you have a DIscover card or not. They are paying 4.60 on money market accounts, and they do wire transfers.

[kdvsn]

Hey everyone,

I have completely had it with Bank of America. Every single

thing I need to do (transfer funds, use ATM, check my balance)

costs an unreasonable amount of money. The last straw was

my last statement - $120 of service fees! (No, I didn't bounce

any checks or overdraw my account in any way.) Good God,

those guys are weasels.

So, I have a banking question for American expats who live in

Thailand. If you use an American bank from Thailand, which

one do you use? Do you like it? Do they kill you with banking

fees?

Any recommendations? Any other banks to avoid? I've heard

Washington Mutual is pretty good. Specifically, here's what I

want:

- good online banking system

- low ATM fees

- no monthly fee/very low monthly fee

- minimum balance is okay

- ability to transfer money to other banks without too much

trouble

Thanks in advance for any help.

Cheers,

- Steamed Farang in Thailand

Credit Unions seem to have the lowest fees of all and don't appear to have any tangible negatives. If you don't work for a company that has one, if you're a US citizen you are eligible to get an account with the Pentagon Federal Credit Union if you pay $20 per year to join an organization called "National Military Family Association". Details are at https://www.penfed.org

[Thaiquila]

Even the Pentagon Federal Credit Union doesn't do online wire transfers! Surprising considering they are serving people stationed all over the world.

[sfokevin]

I know Citibank does online wire transfers - but their exchange rate is not very good (usually lose 1%) Does anyone know of any bank/credit union that does online wire transfers?

[Gary A]

That's not correct. An ATM transaction will cost you one percent. I use Yahoo for my home page and I have always gotten that exchange rate for a wire transfer. There is a $30 flat fee from Citibank and the Siam Commercial Bank has a small charge also. I ALWAYS wire US Dollars so Citibank can't charge for a currency exchange. I think Siam Bank is a percentage but has never been more that 500 baht for a large transfer.

I know Citibank does online wire transfers - but their exchange rate is not very good (usually lose 1%) Does anyone know of any bank/credit union that does online wire transfers?

[Misplaced]

As a former BofA employee, I sadly report that the emphasis of their overseas branches is to cater to big companies doing international business.

When you, as a peon individual living overseas, want to use their big-business international system, you will pay up the ying-yang for it. They want to discourage it, and are apparently doing a good job. $20 fee for using a credit card overseas? Obviously, you get their point.

Not only did I get the point, I got the whole shaft . NO MORE BofA for me

[jaiyenjohn]

As a former BofA employee, I sadly report that the emphasis of their overseas branches is to cater to big companies doing international business.

When you, as a peon individual living overseas, want to use their big-business international system, you will pay up the ying-yang for it. They want to discourage it, and are apparently doing a good job. $20 fee for using a credit card overseas? Obviously, you get their point.

Not only did I get the point, I got the whole shaft . NO MORE BofA for me

Me either. I hate my BofA account and no longer use it. I originally opened it when I was back in the states so that my US customers could easily transfer money to my account.

What pisses me off is that I sat there with the account manager and told him I live in thailand, what I wanted the account for, and what the best account for an expat to open was. We decided on one that was free of charges if I kept a certain balance, which was fine, and then he told me that if I used the ATM overseas, I would get a $3 charge. If i used my debit card overseas as a visa, there would be no charges.

Well that was pretty much the most bald-face lie I had ever been told, once I started getting statements back for literally 20-30 $5 fees a month.

I called the bank to complain, and it turns out they had just "changed" the terms on the accounts, and that they were allowed to do this anytime for any reason.

I pulled all my money out, and now make it a point to keep a negative balance there until they close it themsleves.

Thanks for those who posted alternatives, I'll happily check these out.

JB

[Thaiquila]

Unfortunately, all banks have the power to raise their service fees at any time without warning, and they "bank" on the fact that the majority of their accounts don't want to take the trouble to change banks.

[Momenthai]

Monochaser - I don't understand why you don't trust Thai Banks, why is that? Is it because you think your money might go 'missing', the language issue, the service standards or something completely different?

I have a bank account with one of the local banks. I haven't tried to transfer cash overseas yet but for all my local banking requirements...ATM, debit card, receiving my salary, direct monthly payment to my Thai credit card they are fine and there are no fees whatsoever.

[mbkudu]

Monochaser - I don't understand why you don't trust Thai Banks, why is that? Is it because you think your money might go 'missing', the language issue, the service standards or something completely different?

I have a bank account with one of the local banks. I haven't tried to transfer cash overseas yet but for all my local banking requirements...ATM, debit card, receiving my salary, direct monthly payment to my Thai credit card they are fine and there are no fees whatsoever.

I will second this with my Kasikorn Bank account that I've had the past four years. Never a problem. I have transferred amounts, not big by any means, but amounts and it was fairly straight forward as long as there is a valid reason for it and some paper work. 'Supporting family'

works fine. As for American banks; I could only recommend one that gave me the fewest headaches; Wells Fargo Bank.

Edited June 6, 2006 by mbkudu

[girlx]

I use Netbank which I love- all internet based, high interest rates on their money market accounts, online wire transfers for low fees, great customer service... not sure what they charge for ATM withdrawals, I never look, but I have had no complaints with them whatsoever.

[tjo o tjim]

[As for American banks; I could only recommend one that gave me the fewest headaches; Wells Fargo Bank.

That makes me hurt. WFB was the biggest pain in my arse living in Hong Kong before-- my free account was no longer free since I didn't have direct deposit, huge fees for everything, and a royal pain in the ass.

Gof for a bank where they actually value you as a customer. Hint... if they are in the Fortune 1000, they don't care about you.

[Heng]

Haven't had any issues with any Thai (BBL, KBank, SCB, Krungsri, Krung Thai, SCIB, and even Omsin... the closest thing I have to a complaint is that it takes Omsin 1 week to get your ATM card ready for you... but really a small issue as the cards come with a 20 year expiration date) OR US banks (Bank of America, Wells Fargo, Chase, and Comerica; and also a number of smaller regional banks: Frost Bank Texas, Guaranty Bank, Prosperity Bank Texas). Yes, they all have various fees, some more or less than others, but as private for profit enterprises, I'd expect no less. None have done anything that would warrant a "sucks" rating in my book: namely losing a penny or satang of my savings, having frequent server outages that don't allow me to access my account status here overseas, or miscalculating or paying late my interest income.

[Sulaphat]

Gof for a bank where they actually value you as a customer. Hint... if they are in the Fortune 1000, they don't care about you.

This is the best advice. Credit unions or state-chartered local banks are usually more user-friendly and actually are oriented towards providing service to retail customers. Stay away from the megabanks.

[autonomous_unit]

That makes me hurt. WFB was the biggest pain in my arse living in Hong Kong before-- my free account was no longer free since I didn't have direct deposit, huge fees for everything, and a royal pain in the ass.

Gof for a bank where they actually value you as a customer. Hint... if they are in the Fortune 1000, they don't care about you.

I guess this does depend on your cash situation. If you count your deposits in units of $10k or $100k instead of $1k, they do value your money, and fees and poor interest rates magically disappear...

[rainman]

i use HSBC for my international banking..

[richard10365]

I use to use BOA's online transfer funds feature to send my monthly pension check (which at the time I was sending to BOA) to my Bangkok Bank account. BOA charged me $3 for the transfer and Bangkok Bank charged me 200 baht to receive it and convert it to baht.

[dave111223]

I also have Bank of America, and the way i get most of my money here is by using Paypal.

Bank of America charges $5 per every transaction here. Whereas if you get a Paypal debit card all debit/credit card transactions are free, and ATM withdrawls cost $1 (and no cost on the Thai end)

It actually works out cheaper to take the money out of Paypal using an ATM than to wire transfer money from bank of america to a thai bank. (which is ridiculous)

(Bank of America charges $45 per wire transfer to Thailand)

The only downside to the Paypal card is that you are limited to withdrawing of $400 per day at the ATM and $2000 per day for debit/credit card transactions.

And its free to transfer money from Bank of America into your Paypal account. Plus you earn 4.8% interest from Paypal.