Thousands of Thai anti-government protesters march in Bangkok

[bigbamboo]

Most people up my way (Thais), could not give a s**t about the PDRC protests down there in Bangkok. You guys can argue to and fro all night. The consensus here is that once the protests are over and another election is held, the country's most popular party will be in power again. The Dems need to change their whole character and become a proper opposition so the peoples north of Bangkok have a real choice of who to vote for. No choice for them at the moment especially when the largest opposition party boycotts he elections. They can eventually win if they play the game fairly and not keep trying to cheat through the courts. They just have to except the fact they will not win the next election. If they play their cards right they may win the one after that. Use the next 4 years to try and connect with the opposition supporters and offer them some real hope for their financial future and inclusion in the political sphere. They can do it if they really try.

This is the best comment I have seen for a long while.

This Thai situation should be all about 'normal politics' where parties try to attract votes by developing policies that appeal to the voters. So why don't the Democrats get it? Why don't they develop appealing policies and go on the campaign trail? Who knows. Could it be that they are bunch of total muppets, not to say tosser*?

Here's an idea. Get on a plane, Mr and Mrs Democrat, visit one of the world's functioning democracies (Germany, France, Sweden, UK, USA, New Zealand - many others) and see how they do it.

It ain't rocket science. So you are trying to defeat Peua Thai. Are these the leading players in the world of politics? I don't think so. So stop wanking around, stop the corruption and just start to behave like politicians who can 'do the job'. A first step would be to offer some reasonable, not freeloading, benefits for the poor.

The Democrats certainly need to start living up to their name but I wonder exactly how you describe a government that is run by someone in another country who insists on putting his family members in all the top positions? It is surely unique in the world today.

[Old Man River]

Suthep expresses belief more than one million demonstrators join rally

BANGKOK: -- Suthep Thaugsuban, secretary general of the People's Democratic Reform Committee, expressed his belief Saturday that more than one million people have come out or will later join the mass rally.

He was speaking on Blue Sky Channel at 10:30 am while leading the march.

-- The Nation 2014-03-29

Yeh, well, before the protest Chalerm said 30,000 without knowing. During it, the BBC said thousands, hedging themselves because they didn't know. People I know who were there said, in the afternoon when they were trying to leave (Senate election the next day), they had trouble leaving because more were pouring in.

The bottom line is nobody knows and anyone who says differently is blowing smoke.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Well it would be hard to give the exact number but I think there are ways tio come close to the actual numbers. I think the 30,000 figure and the 1,000,000 figures are just people blowing smoke. It would be nice to get a sensible estimate on the size of the crowd. From the pictures it looked pretty massive the one had the street just crowded from side to side and as far as you could see with no break in it. I was under the impression that they were going to use 6 different routes so there would have to be an incredible amount of people.

One poster was saying that his wife was having a hard time to get into the park with all the people there who were waiting their turn to start marching. As a previous poster said given the heat and the distance it was simply amazing the support the they are getting. Not exactly a day for a long hike in a crowd. Just goes to show how much the people believe in reform and how useless an election with out some reform would be. There quite naturally would need a legislature for some of the reform but they could reform the election procedures and make crystal clear the ones requiring reform by the legislature to the people when they vote.

This would require a real beneficial platform for the voters to vote on. Not the pie in the sky that the uneducated ones will naturally go for. Unfortunately it would leave a lot of people confused. All there intellect is capable of grasping is statements like Thaksin made when he said give me six months and I will make you all rich. They are incapable of realizing he did not make them rich and he has had over 2 and 1/2 years to do it. In fact some of them are even poorer and resorting to suicide as a way out. Most of them have found there household debt has risen. Kind of nullifies the raise in minimum wages when it puts you in more debt than you had before it.

I had my first discussion with my driver about what is going on, this week. He is a Red Shirt and far from dumb. While there is no question that the majority of the Red Shirt's love the King, and Suthep has alienated many of them based on his comments to the contrary, I couldn't understand his strong comments that YL wants to pay the farmers, but has been ordered not to pay the farmers. It wasn't the military, and wasn't the police, but he explained it is the normal way.

With this mentality, you can see that they will continue to think that the Shinawatra's are their saviors. It is the perception, and no matter what YL or any other Shinawatra does, they will always be in the right.

To me, this is the fault of previous governments. Vast amounts of money spent on education that doesn't get spent on education. You reap what you sow.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[rabas]

"Democracy cannot succeed unless those who express their choice are prepared to choose wisely. The real safeguard of democracy, therefore, is education." F.D.Roosevelt

on the other hand ...

"In a democracy the poor will have more power than the rich, because there are more of them, and the will of the majority is supreme." Plato

In these quotes I see the conflict.

In these quotes I see balance.

In the presence of difference, the force of balance is conflict. To be conflicting.

Democracy really means from or by the expression of all the people, the rich and powerful, the poor masses, and all the institutions of or for the people. It does not mean winner take all, or a single simplistic paper majority recorded under dubious circumstances.

Nor is democracy inherently good.

Churchill once said that democracy is the worst form of government except all the others that have been tried.

From this perspective, I see democracy (very) slowly rising in Thailand. I am optimistic.

... but leave the grenades at home, please.

Edited March 30, 2014 by rabas

[Fat Haggis]

He said, they said, we want, they want.

The only way in which to truly gauge the voice of the people is to hold a referendum on reforms before an elections with a straight forward two boxes YES or NO

And then another question "peoples council" to lead reforms with the same two boxes YES or NO.. The PDRC can then run a YES/YES campaign and allow the referendum to run impeded, if they get the majority, then exit stage left for Yingluck, and the PTP and they can run off and rethink a strategy that will allow them to challenge for when the elections are announced post reformation.

There should be a 12 month cap on these reforms, and if nothing has been agreed across all parties, then the Military take control for another 6 month period, Reforms are much needed, but the time frame has to be short and swift, to allow any thoughts about the peoples council never relinquishing their power, which is no doubt what some people fear. Most Thais just want to get on with their daily lives, they should be able to do so.

I disagree many of the people are really and truly are unaware of what is going on. The PTP red shirts have made it such a campaign to look like Suthep is trying to seize the power himself that they are unaware of the reality of his seeking honest reforms before an election. They have done such a good job of it that even some supposedly educated farongs believe that is what it is all about.

The PTP along with their militant arm have been straight out lying trying to get people to think Suthep does not want elections any more just appointed P M's and their cabinets. Also that he is the one he wants appointed.

There's no doubt that there's been some manipulation, but what are you basing your statement off? Personal experience within your village or something else? The villagers where I stay were more interested in The ladies International volleyball team.. I have asked why they support Thaksins Red parties, which to be quite honest is a very personal question, and is really none of my business, being a farang and all that, but they said we know he is a bad man, and he stole money from Buddha but they didn't like the alternatives.. In the weeks I was there, I never seen any people turn up and speak to the villagers en-masse, nobody came to the home either.. I think you might also find John is that many small villagers are actually oblivious to what's going on in Bangkok too.

In all the homes I visited, I never saw a single picture of Thaksin, none of the family have pictures either, and not one was glued to propaganda tv channels either in my times of visit, not to say they don't watch them but most were watching stupid soaps and sports..

Now, isn't it the usual thing for political parties to demonise the opposition? Look at the dirty tricks campaigns that happen within the UK, allegations and counter allegations, mud slinging and out and out hatred for each other, same within the US and it's probably the same all over the EU, isn't it the normal thing to do than to twist everything around to suit YOUR agenda? That's not a PTP/UDD thing, that's normal run of the mill politics.

Vote buying, it's a red herring, if candidate A states he will reduce income tax by 5% when he's in power, and candidate B says he will increase Income tax by 5% to give more money towards the education budget, which one is more appealing to the working man.woman? .. that's vote buying too. Vote buying is just a buzz word for an "incentive to vote for person X"

But you still don't address my point is that education of the masses has to start with how ones self presents himself to others, calling everyone in the North and East thick, stupid Buffalos, who are ignorant dumb and too stupid to vote, when you're trying to get their votes isn't exactly a way to go about things is it??

"But you still don't address my point is that education of the masses has to start with how ones self presents himself to others, calling everyone in the North and East thick, stupid Buffalos, who are ignorant dumb and too stupid to vote, when you're trying to get their votes isn't exactly a way to go about things is it?? "

No it is not. but that goes to show your level of comprehension of the problem that was the theme put forth and retracted by the Yellow shirts in 2008 or 09 not sure which when they occupied the air port. Even before they occupied the air port they had dropped that part.

My contention is they are to stupid to have an informed vote. Your experience backs up my statement weather you like it or not. They are clueless.

How I or you present are selves to the masses has nothing to do with starting education. That is the governments job and in the last 14 years it has not happened. 10 of those years have had Thaksin at the throttle. Education wise it has been full speed spinning of the wheels.

So where do you start? A change in the current curriculum of the schools? I simply chose education as one of the main reforms, as education isn't just about teaching kids, it's teaching "everyone" and it covers just about every subject known to man. You need to educate the masses about corruption, all of these reforms are about educating people to see that there has to be a change.

Even the very protests themselves are an education.

Once again you say these people are too stupid to have an informed vote, isn't that their choice to make? What does it matter to you whether they chose to vote one way or another? If there's so stupid, why do you live among st them? You're doing exactly as I said earlier in that you're belittling them by calling them stupid, it shows a degree of arrogance, is it any wonder that they have the attitudes that they do?

What are you doing personally to enlighten them to raise their awareness, and inform them "they need to get out more and open their minds to other possibilities" ?

You need to remember also John that having a Good solid Western Education behind you doesn't always make you smarter than the simple Thai bloke who's had a lifetime of education from the school of hard knocks and life mate Yes in the ideal world you'd love to be able to "shake them and give them a wake up call" but it's not down to us, these wake up calls have to come from the Thai pioneers who have visions, and are not afraid to walk into the lions den from time to time, to put his points across, as they say, you can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make it drink.. this is the challenge that faces these who are willing to walk into the lions den in Issan and the the North East, and be allowed to speak freely.. The divide between the country needs to be healed first, before that's likely to happen..

How do you heal that rift John?

[ginjag]

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One more point, and this should be obvious to everyone.

Bangkok is supposed to be a Democrat yellow stronghold. Yet 99.9% of Bangkok did not go to these protests.

Bangkok will be Pheu Thai seats at the next election.

Not in the next election or in your life time Blue nose ..........BUT, maybe ,just maybe. In your Dreams alt=rolleyes.gif width=20 height=20> ..... alt=coffee1.gif width=32 height=24>

"Bangkok is supposed to be a Democrat yellow stronghold. Yet 99.9% of Bangkok did not go to these protests."

What rubbish.

Therefore your saying 99.9% are upcountry folks?

Because it's difficult to defend the government anymore, these are the stupid comments that are posted,

B/N/Codger said only 1% of protesters were from BKK. Trying to argue that the truth is wrong --pro government posters. What will you all do when most of your hero's/+ PM are ousted ??? will you all favour the new government that should be transparent ??? I do not think so, you will fight against it. The same you are fighting against the vast majority of posters here.

[Fat Haggis]

No he didn't say that, he said that based on the population of Bangkok, the figures protesting represents 1% of the Bangkok population.

Now whether he based on the population that was of voting age, and are registered to vote is an entirely different matter

[BlueNoseCodger]

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One more point, and this should be obvious to everyone.

Bangkok is supposed to be a Democrat yellow stronghold. Yet 99.9% of Bangkok did not go to these protests.

Bangkok will be Pheu Thai seats at the next election.

Not in the next election or in your life time Blue nose ..........BUT, maybe ,just maybe. In your Dreams alt=rolleyes.gif width=20 height=20> ..... alt=coffee1.gif width=32 height=24>

"Bangkok is supposed to be a Democrat yellow stronghold. Yet 99.9% of Bangkok did not go to these protests."

What rubbish.

Therefore your saying 99.9% are upcountry folks?

Because it's difficult to defend the government anymore, these are the stupid comments that are posted,

B/N/Codger said only 1% of protesters were from BKK. Trying to argue that the truth is wrong --pro government posters. What will you all do when most of your hero's/+ PM are ousted ??? will you all favour the new government that should be transparent ??? I do not think so, you will fight against it. The same you are fighting against the vast majority of posters here.

Not 1%, it's only 0.1%.

i.e. 14000 / 14.5 million = 0.0965% of Bangkok

14000 people at the big protest here, estimated using this method.

14.5 million is the population of Greater Bangkok, taken from Wikipedia page.

So that means that 14,486,000 people did not go to the protest in their own city, or 99.9% of Bangkok, in a city that is supposed to be yellow politically.

"What will you all do when most of your hero's/+ PM are ousted"

Ignore the coup and get on with the democracy anyway.

Edited March 30, 2014 by BlueNoseCodger

[ginjag]

No he didn't say that, he said that based on the population of Bangkok, the figures protesting represents 1% of the Bangkok population.

Now whether he based on the population that was of voting age, and are registered to vote is an entirely different matter

He said " 99% of BKK did not go to these protests. That is what I posted on.--correction 99.9%..... .001%,

He said BKK NOT greater BKK difference yes 6-7 million---you stretched it double.

Edited March 30, 2014 by ginjag

[ginjag]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

"Bangkok is supposed to be a Democrat yellow stronghold. Yet 99.9% of Bangkok did not go to these protests."

What rubbish.

Therefore your saying 99.9% are upcountry folks?

Because it's difficult to defend the government anymore, these are the stupid comments that are posted,

B/N/Codger said only 1% of protesters were from BKK. Trying to argue that the truth is wrong --pro government posters. What will you all do when most of your hero's/+ PM are ousted ??? will you all favour the new government that should be transparent ??? I do not think so, you will fight against it. The same you are fighting against the vast majority of posters here.

Not 1%, it's only 0.1%.

i.e. 14000 / 14.5 million = 0.0965% of Bangkok

14000 people at the big protest here, estimated using this method.

14.5 million is the population of Greater Bangkok, taken from Wikipedia page.

So that means that 14,486,000 people did not go to the protest in their own city, or 99.9% of Bangkok, in a city that is supposed to be yellow politically.

"What will you all do when most of your hero's/+ PM are ousted"

Ignore the coup and get on with the democracy anyway.

You mean ignore the courts as per government, and CARRY-ON (movie farce) style, but sorry they were democratically elected but have to go the same as the last 3 of their regimes because of serious mismanagement.

You choose well, your conscience .

[Fat Haggis]

Technically speaking he could be right, as they came from all over Thailand to protest.. and throw in the other forum headline that many Southerners who went to Bangkok to protest will not get back home in time for the Election for the Senate, would add a little bit of weight behind his thesis

It's not something I'd bother with, the numbers were significant but lower than many predicted or believed, we all see what we want to see when it suits us

[BlueNoseCodger]

Suthep expresses belief more than one million demonstrators join rally

BANGKOK: -- Suthep Thaugsuban, secretary general of the People's Democratic Reform Committee, expressed his belief Saturday that more than one million people have come out or will later join the mass rally.

He was speaking on Blue Sky Channel at 10:30 am while leading the march.

-- The Nation 2014-03-29

Yeh, well, before the protest Chalerm said 30,000 without knowing. During it, the BBC said thousands, hedging themselves because they didn't know. People I know who were there said, in the afternoon when they were trying to leave (Senate election the next day), they had trouble leaving because more were pouring in.

The bottom line is nobody knows and anyone who says differently is blowing smoke.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Well it would be hard to give the exact number but I think there are ways tio come close to the actual numbers. I think the 30,000 figure and the 1,000,000 figures are just people blowing smoke. It would be nice to get a sensible estimate on the size of the crowd. From the pictures it looked pretty massive the one had the street just crowded from side to side and as far as you could see with no break in it. I was under the impression that they were going to use 6 different routes so there would have to be an incredible amount of people.

One poster was saying that his wife was having a hard time to get into the park with all the people there who were waiting their turn to start marching. As a previous poster said given the heat and the distance it was simply amazing the support the they are getting. Not exactly a day for a long hike in a crowd. Just goes to show how much the people believe in reform and how useless an election with out some reform would be. There quite naturally would need a legislature for some of the reform but they could reform the election procedures and make crystal clear the ones requiring reform by the legislature to the people when they vote.

This would require a real beneficial platform for the voters to vote on. Not the pie in the sky that the uneducated ones will naturally go for. Unfortunately it would leave a lot of people confused. All there intellect is capable of grasping is statements like Thaksin made when he said give me six months and I will make you all rich. They are incapable of realizing he did not make them rich and he has had over 2 and 1/2 years to do it. In fact some of them are even poorer and resorting to suicide as a way out. Most of them have found there household debt has risen. Kind of nullifies the raise in minimum wages when it puts you in more debt than you had before it.

Estimate it yourself, it's not difficult. Early morning this was the protest:

You can count the heads, its a few hundred tops. Not really worth counting then.

They went to government house, if you section the picture into blocks of similar density and size and count one, you can then estimate the other blocks without being forced to count every individual head. I made it about 750 people.

A little later in the morning

There's about 200 people between 2 support posts in the BTS, BTS support pillars are basically spaced evenly, and if you then count where the BTS posts should be, you can figure out how many posts * 200 = estimate. I estimated 2000 or so.

As the protestors walked past the central turn, a photo that can be estimated using the posts extrapolation. I counted 47 across, 19 between sky train posts and about 10 posts = 8900 people which I rounded up to 10k since we're trying to get a max.

The biggest picture is the Nation one from the drone.

If you treat the middle as a square, I counted in the right side 36, in the tree margin 10, by zoom and count. i.e. 46 wide, *2 since the other half of the square is similarly populated. I counted 20 heads to get an idea of distance, then scaled that up to background. So we're basically doing an area calculation.

There's some people in the three joining streets, I overestimated those heavily to be sure of getting a maximum. So for example, I guessed 1000 in the right fork, but there is a tree there covering about 30% of the street, have you ever seen 300 people behind a tree? So I'm confident it's an overestimate. (link)

That gave me about 14000 people as the estimate for there.

I saw how the police estimated 30k, but I suspect they were double counting, as portions of the mob moved from place to place.

[GoodThaiGirl]

Suthep expresses belief more than one million demonstrators join rally

BANGKOK: -- Suthep Thaugsuban, secretary general of the People's Democratic Reform Committee, expressed his belief Saturday that more than one million people have come out or will later join the mass rally.

He was speaking on Blue Sky Channel at 10:30 am while leading the march.

-- The Nation 2014-03-29

Yeh, well, before the protest Chalerm said 30,000 without knowing. During it, the BBC said thousands, hedging themselves because they didn't know. People I know who were there said, in the afternoon when they were trying to leave (Senate election the next day), they had trouble leaving because more were pouring in.

The bottom line is nobody knows and anyone who says differently is blowing smoke.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Well it would be hard to give the exact number but I think there are ways tio come close to the actual numbers. I think the 30,000 figure and the 1,000,000 figures are just people blowing smoke. It would be nice to get a sensible estimate on the size of the crowd. From the pictures it looked pretty massive the one had the street just crowded from side to side and as far as you could see with no break in it. I was under the impression that they were going to use 6 different routes so there would have to be an incredible amount of people.

One poster was saying that his wife was having a hard time to get into the park with all the people there who were waiting their turn to start marching. As a previous poster said given the heat and the distance it was simply amazing the support the they are getting. Not exactly a day for a long hike in a crowd. Just goes to show how much the people believe in reform and how useless an election with out some reform would be. There quite naturally would need a legislature for some of the reform but they could reform the election procedures and make crystal clear the ones requiring reform by the legislature to the people when they vote.

This would require a real beneficial platform for the voters to vote on. Not the pie in the sky that the uneducated ones will naturally go for. Unfortunately it would leave a lot of people confused. All there intellect is capable of grasping is statements like Thaksin made when he said give me six months and I will make you all rich. They are incapable of realizing he did not make them rich and he has had over 2 and 1/2 years to do it. In fact some of them are even poorer and resorting to suicide as a way out. Most of them have found there household debt has risen. Kind of nullifies the raise in minimum wages when it puts you in more debt than you had before it.

Estimate it yourself, it's not difficult. Early morning this was the protest:

You can count the heads, its a few hundred tops. Not really worth counting then.

They went to government house, if you section the picture into blocks of similar density and size and count one, you can then estimate the other blocks without being forced to count every individual head. I made it about 750 people.

A little later in the morning

There's about 200 people between 2 support posts in the BTS, BTS support pillars are basically spaced evenly, and if you then count where the BTS posts should be, you can figure out how many posts * 200 = estimate. I estimated 2000 or so.

As the protestors walked past the central turn, a photo that can be estimated using the posts extrapolation. I counted 47 across, 19 between sky train posts and about 10 posts = 8900 people which I rounded up to 10k since we're trying to get a max.

The biggest picture is the Nation one from the drone.

If you treat the middle as a square, I counted in the right side 36, in the tree margin 10, by zoom and count. i.e. 46 wide, *2 since the other half of the square is similarly populated. I counted 20 heads to get an idea of distance, then scaled that up to background. So we're basically doing an area calculation.

There's some people in the three joining streets, I overestimated those heavily to be sure of getting a maximum. So for example, I guessed 1000 in the right fork, but there is a tree there covering about 30% of the street, have you ever seen 300 people behind a tree? So I'm confident it's an overestimate. (link)

That gave me about 14000 people as the estimate for there.

I saw how the police estimated 30k, but I suspect they were double counting, as portions of the mob moved from place to place.

where are you im at the park now,,not many here today,come and join us,were not hiso..so maybe to far down the food chain for you...not 1 correct statement from you at all...all lies from your armchair..

[scorecard]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Suthep expresses belief more than one million demonstrators join rally

BANGKOK: -- Suthep Thaugsuban, secretary general of the People's Democratic Reform Committee, expressed his belief Saturday that more than one million people have come out or will later join the mass rally.

He was speaking on Blue Sky Channel at 10:30 am while leading the march.


-- The Nation 2014-03-29

Yeh, well, before the protest Chalerm said 30,000 without knowing. During it, the BBC said thousands, hedging themselves because they didn't know. People I know who were there said, in the afternoon when they were trying to leave (Senate election the next day), they had trouble leaving because more were pouring in.

The bottom line is nobody knows and anyone who says differently is blowing smoke.


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Well it would be hard to give the exact number but I think there are ways tio come close to the actual numbers. I think the 30,000 figure and the 1,000,000 figures are just people blowing smoke. It would be nice to get a sensible estimate on the size of the crowd. From the pictures it looked pretty massive the one had the street just crowded from side to side and as far as you could see with no break in it. I was under the impression that they were going to use 6 different routes so there would have to be an incredible amount of people.

One poster was saying that his wife was having a hard time to get into the park with all the people there who were waiting their turn to start marching. As a previous poster said given the heat and the distance it was simply amazing the support the they are getting. Not exactly a day for a long hike in a crowd. Just goes to show how much the people believe in reform and how useless an election with out some reform would be. There quite naturally would need a legislature for some of the reform but they could reform the election procedures and make crystal clear the ones requiring reform by the legislature to the people when they vote.
This would require a real beneficial platform for the voters to vote on. Not the pie in the sky that the uneducated ones will naturally go for. Unfortunately it would leave a lot of people confused. All there intellect is capable of grasping is statements like Thaksin made when he said give me six months and I will make you all rich. They are incapable of realizing he did not make them rich and he has had over 2 and 1/2 years to do it. In fact some of them are even poorer and resorting to suicide as a way out. Most of them have found there household debt has risen. Kind of nullifies the raise in minimum wages when it puts you in more debt than you had before it.

I had my first discussion with my driver about what is going on, this week. He is a Red Shirt and far from dumb. While there is no question that the majority of the Red Shirt's love the King, and Suthep has alienated many of them based on his comments to the contrary, I couldn't understand his strong comments that YL wants to pay the farmers, but has been ordered not to pay the farmers. It wasn't the military, and wasn't the police, but he explained it is the normal way.

With this mentality, you can see that they will continue to think that the Shinawatra's are their saviors. It is the perception, and no matter what YL or any other Shinawatra does, they will always be in the right.

To me, this is the fault of previous governments. Vast amounts of money spent on education that doesn't get spent on education. You reap what you sow.


Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

IMHO this is a key point.

There has been no ongoing education (I mean over many decades) nor in the recent past to ensure all Thai citizens have a good understanding of:

- What democracy means,

- Why (if it's healthy and respected by all), it is valuable as one tool to build a valuable balanced civil society.

- The main / foundations of democracy and how these foundations are build

- The know threats which can destroy / damage / seriously damage democracy.

All past governments / all parties are guilty of this failure.

This must be a key reform.

Aligned is the need to 'push' all citizens to make a personal decision of what they want for themselves and for their families, with some thinking about the future in terms of the following:

- Live on handouts forever with no actual development to get your family into a better quality of life.

- Have a market based / capitalist economy which provides open opportunities (and some downside)

- Expect the country (the tax collections) to support schemes which will ultimately bankrupt the country (therefore the schemes also collapse) / take so

much funds that many other infrastructure items never get attention and Thailand falls behind.

- Support governments which put cronies / totally incapable people into high positions which stymies innovation & improvement etc.

- Support governments which openly rape the common wealth of all Thais and which will, in a short time period bankrupt the country.

- Be a slave under a dictator, not allowed to talk or object.

- Have the right to open discussion and the right to object and to protest

- Etc...

Edited March 30, 2014 by scorecard

[ginjag]

Suthep expresses belief more than one million demonstrators join rally

BANGKOK: -- Suthep Thaugsuban, secretary general of the People's Democratic Reform Committee, expressed his belief Saturday that more than one million people have come out or will later join the mass rally.

He was speaking on Blue Sky Channel at 10:30 am while leading the march.

-- The Nation 2014-03-29

Yeh, well, before the protest Chalerm said 30,000 without knowing. During it, the BBC said thousands, hedging themselves because they didn't know. People I know who were there said, in the afternoon when they were trying to leave (Senate election the next day), they had trouble leaving because more were pouring in.

The bottom line is nobody knows and anyone who says differently is blowing smoke.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Well it would be hard to give the exact number but I think there are ways tio come close to the actual numbers. I think the 30,000 figure and the 1,000,000 figures are just people blowing smoke. It would be nice to get a sensible estimate on the size of the crowd. From the pictures it looked pretty massive the one had the street just crowded from side to side and as far as you could see with no break in it. I was under the impression that they were going to use 6 different routes so there would have to be an incredible amount of people.

One poster was saying that his wife was having a hard time to get into the park with all the people there who were waiting their turn to start marching. As a previous poster said given the heat and the distance it was simply amazing the support the they are getting. Not exactly a day for a long hike in a crowd. Just goes to show how much the people believe in reform and how useless an election with out some reform would be. There quite naturally would need a legislature for some of the reform but they could reform the election procedures and make crystal clear the ones requiring reform by the legislature to the people when they vote.

This would require a real beneficial platform for the voters to vote on. Not the pie in the sky that the uneducated ones will naturally go for. Unfortunately it would leave a lot of people confused. All there intellect is capable of grasping is statements like Thaksin made when he said give me six months and I will make you all rich. They are incapable of realizing he did not make them rich and he has had over 2 and 1/2 years to do it. In fact some of them are even poorer and resorting to suicide as a way out. Most of them have found there household debt has risen. Kind of nullifies the raise in minimum wages when it puts you in more debt than you had before it.

Estimate it yourself, it's not difficult. Early morning this was the protest:

You can count the heads, its a few hundred tops. Not really worth counting then.

They went to government house, if you section the picture into blocks of similar density and size and count one, you can then estimate the other blocks without being forced to count every individual head. I made it about 750 people.

A little later in the morning

There's about 200 people between 2 support posts in the BTS, BTS support pillars are basically spaced evenly, and if you then count where the BTS posts should be, you can figure out how many posts * 200 = estimate. I estimated 2000 or so.

As the protestors walked past the central turn, a photo that can be estimated using the posts extrapolation. I counted 47 across, 19 between sky train posts and about 10 posts = 8900 people which I rounded up to 10k since we're trying to get a max.

The biggest picture is the Nation one from the drone.

If you treat the middle as a square, I counted in the right side 36, in the tree margin 10, by zoom and count. i.e. 46 wide, *2 since the other half of the square is similarly populated. I counted 20 heads to get an idea of distance, then scaled that up to background. So we're basically doing an area calculation.

There's some people in the three joining streets, I overestimated those heavily to be sure of getting a maximum. So for example, I guessed 1000 in the right fork, but there is a tree there covering about 30% of the street, have you ever seen 300 people behind a tree? So I'm confident it's an overestimate. (link)

That gave me about 14000 people as the estimate for there.

I saw how the police estimated 30k, but I suspect they were double counting, as portions of the mob moved from place to place.

EARLY MORNING ??? why---you could have estimated your count if you had done it with night vision at 2am.

trick or silliness ???? and for what anyway,

Why not answer posts that hurt you like #369, and government failures, this subject is easier to argue about--how many---Who the heck cares, it is the show, the reasons not just how many.

Not my savior by a long way but he did not mention at every minute in any day. he said overall, as some times suit and others do not. Many are working day--others are off w/e, others work evenings. They are not all grannies as the JOKERS said.

[binjalin]

So another protest march. It is immaterial how many turn out. Those who turn out only represent themselves and not necessarily a larger body.. What counts is election results. If Suthep is so confident at his turnout he should be welcoming elections. He claims to want reforms before elections. Exactly what are they? It would sure make things a lot more clear and show how will his reforms help his constituency and deny the PTP its representation. What the PTP should be doing is demanding him to outline his reforms. Bottom line is still the fact that without amending the constitution there is still one vote per person. How is he to get around that. Whether the PTP wins or the democrats win it all boils down to winning over voters. Street demonstrations only show how afraid the democrats are of having an election. I personally don't care who wins as neither side will conduct itself without corruption. However, that being said, I am not for mobs dictating political outcomes. That is not democracy.

have you been sleeping over the winter ?

I'll give you an update of what the majority of Thai people want in 4 easy steps

Thakisns PTP Gone - Reforms - referendum - Election

In that order

no facts? just more wishful thinking lies?

majority of Thai people??? don't think so

IF it were so they would win any election hands down

I'll give you an update of what the REAL majority of Thai people want in 4 easy steps:

no thugs blocking election - an election - respect for the voters at that election - and peace after

in that order

don't believe me? HOLD AN ELECTION and let's see what the 'majority' of Thai people want

[binjalin]

Suthep expresses belief more than one million demonstrators join rally

BANGKOK: -- Suthep Thaugsuban, secretary general of the People's Democratic Reform Committee, expressed his belief Saturday that more than one million people have come out or will later join the mass rally.

He was speaking on Blue Sky Channel at 10:30 am while leading the march.

-- The Nation 2014-03-29

Yeh, well, before the protest Chalerm said 30,000 without knowing. During it, the BBC said thousands, hedging themselves because they didn't know. People I know who were there said, in the afternoon when they were trying to leave (Senate election the next day), they had trouble leaving because more were pouring in.

The bottom line is nobody knows and anyone who says differently is blowing smoke.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Well it would be hard to give the exact number but I think there are ways tio come close to the actual numbers. I think the 30,000 figure and the 1,000,000 figures are just people blowing smoke. It would be nice to get a sensible estimate on the size of the crowd. From the pictures it looked pretty massive the one had the street just crowded from side to side and as far as you could see with no break in it. I was under the impression that they were going to use 6 different routes so there would have to be an incredible amount of people.

One poster was saying that his wife was having a hard time to get into the park with all the people there who were waiting their turn to start marching. As a previous poster said given the heat and the distance it was simply amazing the support the they are getting. Not exactly a day for a long hike in a crowd. Just goes to show how much the people believe in reform and how useless an election with out some reform would be. There quite naturally would need a legislature for some of the reform but they could reform the election procedures and make crystal clear the ones requiring reform by the legislature to the people when they vote.

This would require a real beneficial platform for the voters to vote on. Not the pie in the sky that the uneducated ones will naturally go for. Unfortunately it would leave a lot of people confused. All there intellect is capable of grasping is statements like Thaksin made when he said give me six months and I will make you all rich. They are incapable of realizing he did not make them rich and he has had over 2 and 1/2 years to do it. In fact some of them are even poorer and resorting to suicide as a way out. Most of them have found there household debt has risen. Kind of nullifies the raise in minimum wages when it puts you in more debt than you had before it.

Estimate it yourself, it's not difficult. Early morning this was the protest:

You can count the heads, its a few hundred tops. Not really worth counting then.

They went to government house, if you section the picture into blocks of similar density and size and count one, you can then estimate the other blocks without being forced to count every individual head. I made it about 750 people.

A little later in the morning

There's about 200 people between 2 support posts in the BTS, BTS support pillars are basically spaced evenly, and if you then count where the BTS posts should be, you can figure out how many posts * 200 = estimate. I estimated 2000 or so.

As the protestors walked past the central turn, a photo that can be estimated using the posts extrapolation. I counted 47 across, 19 between sky train posts and about 10 posts = 8900 people which I rounded up to 10k since we're trying to get a max.

The biggest picture is the Nation one from the drone.

If you treat the middle as a square, I counted in the right side 36, in the tree margin 10, by zoom and count. i.e. 46 wide, *2 since the other half of the square is similarly populated. I counted 20 heads to get an idea of distance, then scaled that up to background. So we're basically doing an area calculation.

There's some people in the three joining streets, I overestimated those heavily to be sure of getting a maximum. So for example, I guessed 1000 in the right fork, but there is a tree there covering about 30% of the street, have you ever seen 300 people behind a tree? So I'm confident it's an overestimate. (link)

That gave me about 14000 people as the estimate for there.

I saw how the police estimated 30k, but I suspect they were double counting, as portions of the mob moved from place to place.

EXCELLENT post - but the yellow fellows on here don't want to hear the TRUTH

they just want to suppress the farmers and the poor and support what they conceive to be the 'elite' as it brings them comfort and succor in their old age

in their home countries they would be right wing Rebublicans, staunch Conservatives or worse

[Dr Bruce]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

I think your wife may be seeing her other husband today, traffic is now flowing freely at Lumpini, there are groups of protesters still on the road but they are wandering aimlessly.

Well she must be seeing him at the protests because I could hardly hear hear on the phone for whistles and crowd sounds.

Also being reported in the Nation.

Several groups yet to start marching, so unless you have proof that you are there, I suggest you post a picture for us.

Until you do that.... You are a liar.

i love the "Too Stupid to Vote" argument. They always set the IQ bar a couple of points below thier own level.

These are more civilized and orderly than Red Shirt. It shows the level of education. for my money I rather the educated people make decisions than uneducated at anytime

so how many thousands against 20mln voters, millions, who were prevented from voting and millions intimidated by armed and violent mob?

Considering your earlier post one might say it is above your level.

I was there and I saw what I saw.

The traffic was flowing, there were a few groups of protesters wandering around. This was at about 12 ish. the nation reported at the same time that there were 2 groups of marchers still leaving Lumpini. I could not see them. If you read the Nation story carefully it states that Suthep's wife had told her son and Suthep's son had told Bluesky. Who had then reported it as fact.

I realise that most people will not believe me but if you think how long it took Mum to phone Son and then Son to phone Bluesky and the BlueSky to report it and the Nation then to put it on The website for the poster on here to then say that his 'wife" had told him that she was still waiting.

The other point that I use in support of my version is the fact that Suthep's Wife had started the march with him and then dropped out, How could she know what was happening in Lumpini when she had marched the first few KM at the front?

This is my last post on this subject, I saw what I saw and reported it here.

[Old Man River]

Suthep expresses belief more than one million demonstrators join rally

BANGKOK: -- Suthep Thaugsuban, secretary general of the People's Democratic Reform Committee, expressed his belief Saturday that more than one million people have come out or will later join the mass rally.

He was speaking on Blue Sky Channel at 10:30 am while leading the march.

-- The Nation 2014-03-29

Yeh, well, before the protest Chalerm said 30,000 without knowing. During it, the BBC said thousands, hedging themselves because they didn't know. People I know who were there said, in the afternoon when they were trying to leave (Senate election the next day), they had trouble leaving because more were pouring in.

The bottom line is nobody knows and anyone who says differently is blowing smoke.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

Well it would be hard to give the exact number but I think there are ways tio come close to the actual numbers. I think the 30,000 figure and the 1,000,000 figures are just people blowing smoke. It would be nice to get a sensible estimate on the size of the crowd. From the pictures it looked pretty massive the one had the street just crowded from side to side and as far as you could see with no break in it. I was under the impression that they were going to use 6 different routes so there would have to be an incredible amount of people.

One poster was saying that his wife was having a hard time to get into the park with all the people there who were waiting their turn to start marching. As a previous poster said given the heat and the distance it was simply amazing the support the they are getting. Not exactly a day for a long hike in a crowd. Just goes to show how much the people believe in reform and how useless an election with out some reform would be. There quite naturally would need a legislature for some of the reform but they could reform the election procedures and make crystal clear the ones requiring reform by the legislature to the people when they vote.

This would require a real beneficial platform for the voters to vote on. Not the pie in the sky that the uneducated ones will naturally go for. Unfortunately it would leave a lot of people confused. All there intellect is capable of grasping is statements like Thaksin made when he said give me six months and I will make you all rich. They are incapable of realizing he did not make them rich and he has had over 2 and 1/2 years to do it. In fact some of them are even poorer and resorting to suicide as a way out. Most of them have found there household debt has risen. Kind of nullifies the raise in minimum wages when it puts you in more debt than you had before it.

Estimate it yourself, it's not difficult. Early morning this was the protest:

You can count the heads, its a few hundred tops. Not really worth counting then.

They went to government house, if you section the picture into blocks of similar density and size and count one, you can then estimate the other blocks without being forced to count every individual head. I made it about 750 people.

A little later in the morning

There's about 200 people between 2 support posts in the BTS, BTS support pillars are basically spaced evenly, and if you then count where the BTS posts should be, you can figure out how many posts * 200 = estimate. I estimated 2000 or so.

As the protestors walked past the central turn, a photo that can be estimated using the posts extrapolation. I counted 47 across, 19 between sky train posts and about 10 posts = 8900 people which I rounded up to 10k since we're trying to get a max.

The biggest picture is the Nation one from the drone.

If you treat the middle as a square, I counted in the right side 36, in the tree margin 10, by zoom and count. i.e. 46 wide, *2 since the other half of the square is similarly populated. I counted 20 heads to get an idea of distance, then scaled that up to background. So we're basically doing an area calculation.

There's some people in the three joining streets, I overestimated those heavily to be sure of getting a maximum. So for example, I guessed 1000 in the right fork, but there is a tree there covering about 30% of the street, have you ever seen 300 people behind a tree? So I'm confident it's an overestimate. (link)

That gave me about 14000 people as the estimate for there.

I saw how the police estimated 30k, but I suspect they were double counting, as portions of the mob moved from place to place.

The police weren't double counting given they said the number before it started.

In addition, the protesters were coming from different directions, while photos were taken from different directions at different times. People were joining while people were leaving. Many university alumni associations were involved. Some of the older ones were actually in wheelchairs, but with all the smoke I wouldn't expect you to see them.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[dutchisaan]

So another protest march. It is immaterial how many turn out. Those who turn out only represent themselves and not necessarily a larger body.. What counts is election results. If Suthep is so confident at his turnout he should be welcoming elections. He claims to want reforms before elections. Exactly what are they? It would sure make things a lot more clear and show how will his reforms help his constituency and deny the PTP its representation. What the PTP should be doing is demanding him to outline his reforms. Bottom line is still the fact that without amending the constitution there is still one vote per person. How is he to get around that. Whether the PTP wins or the democrats win it all boils down to winning over voters. Street demonstrations only show how afraid the democrats are of having an election. I personally don't care who wins as neither side will conduct itself without corruption. However, that being said, I am not for mobs dictating political outcomes. That is not democracy.

have you been sleeping over the winter ?

I'll give you an update of what the majority of Thai people want in 4 easy steps

Thakisns PTP Gone - Reforms - referendum - Election

In that order

no facts? just more wishful thinking lies?

majority of Thai people??? don't think so

IF it were so they would win any election hands down

I'll give you an update of what the REAL majority of Thai people want in 4 easy steps:

no thugs blocking election - an election - respect for the voters at that election - and peace after

in that order

don't believe me? HOLD AN ELECTION and let's see what the 'majority' of Thai people want

As normaly your reply is only based on your one sided view that what this goverment is doing is democratic. I feel sorry for that you think that this government is democratic in there actions. All you can do is turn everything around and yell foul when it doesn't suit the ptp or the red suporters. So how come you can not realy see what is going on in this country? Maby it will be time for you to leave your keyboard alone for awile, go outside and visit the real world.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[monkeycountry]

"Thousands of Thai anti-government protesters march in Bangkok"

>This is not anti-Govt.

>This is anti-democracy

>This is pro-coup

>Those seeking to power their way into governance via non-electoral means, are not protesters....Protesters by definition are 'against something"...These people are 'for' something.

That said, it is pitiful seeing them run about the streets, when very obviously should be expressing themselves at the ballot box and in parliament.

Everyone to their own I guess. To see an electoral minority seek to assert itself over an electoral majority is folderol.

Without playing the numbers game with these people today, it can be safely said they would be dwarfed by the electoral majority should they gather at one place, on one particular day.

I would love to know where you found that definition? I think most protesters are both against something and for something at the same time.

As an example, many protesters around the world protest against a dictator, and for democracy at the same time. In other words they are both for and against something, just like the PDRC.

As I have said before, just because you and your fellow red supporters strongly believe something does not make it a fact or a definition. And no, writing the same thing over and over also does not make it fact :-)

[monkeycountry]

This news just in.........66.5 million people show their support for democracy and the elected government by boycotting Suthep's silly little parade!

Can we use that same "logic" when the red shirts make parades in support of Yingluck and the PTP? :-)

[BlueNoseCodger]

So another protest march. It is immaterial how many turn out. Those who turn out only represent themselves and not necessarily a larger body.. What counts is election results. If Suthep is so confident at his turnout he should be welcoming elections. He claims to want reforms before elections. Exactly what are they? It would sure make things a lot more clear and show how will his reforms help his constituency and deny the PTP its representation. What the PTP should be doing is demanding him to outline his reforms. Bottom line is still the fact that without amending the constitution there is still one vote per person. How is he to get around that. Whether the PTP wins or the democrats win it all boils down to winning over voters. Street demonstrations only show how afraid the democrats are of having an election. I personally don't care who wins as neither side will conduct itself without corruption. However, that being said, I am not for mobs dictating political outcomes. That is not democracy.

have you been sleeping over the winter ?

I'll give you an update of what the majority of Thai people want in 4 easy steps

Thakisns PTP Gone - Reforms - referendum - Election

In that order

That's exactly how it has to happen !!

As long as the Camel Dung and his clan are still running this country it will stay on the path of Total DESTRUCTION !!

Farmers will continue to die !!

Children will continue to be killed !!

Monks will continue to be beating up !!

Grenades attacks will continue !!

Buildings will continue to be burnt down !!

Thuggery,Intimidation on Judges and on the Innocent public will continue !!

Rice shams, Flood shams with money from these and many many more will continuously to Disappear in Large Amounts with No Accountability !!

etc,etc,etc ......

Now I'm not saying Suthep is the answer either !! I mean he's had his hand in the cookie jar as well and stole some cookies But Not The Whole Cookie Factory !!!!! like the Red Shirts have !!

But change has to come for the better of Thailand and at least he sees this and is trying to do SOMETHING ABOUT IT !!

Now I know all you Red Shirt Flag Waving minions will say then win an election !!

Well if Reforms went through to at least to stop things like Criminals can't run for any public office ever !! Vote buying if caught charged and jailed(and after never allow to run for any public office again)

Just on these two reforms that would end the Camel Jockey and his clan from ever holding any public office's ever again !! and that go's for people on both sides which would be a good thing

and don't ever ever ever allow another puppet as a PM !!! How this was ever allowed to happen is a complete joke as it is !!!!

REFORMS have to happen !! Other wise Governments like this one will continuously DESTROY this Country !!

I want something anything for the better to happen for my children then whats happening to their country NOW !!!!

We had peace, a booming economy, a stock market at its peak, inward investment as the entry to ASEAN, a Hua Hin holiday, booming tourism.

And BlueSky filled your minds with lies and hate and nonsense, and you believed it.

Go home.

[ginjag]

So another protest march. It is immaterial how many turn out. Those who turn out only represent themselves and not necessarily a larger body.. What counts is election results. If Suthep is so confident at his turnout he should be welcoming elections. He claims to want reforms before elections. Exactly what are they? It would sure make things a lot more clear and show how will his reforms help his constituency and deny the PTP its representation. What the PTP should be doing is demanding him to outline his reforms. Bottom line is still the fact that without amending the constitution there is still one vote per person. How is he to get around that. Whether the PTP wins or the democrats win it all boils down to winning over voters. Street demonstrations only show how afraid the democrats are of having an election. I personally don't care who wins as neither side will conduct itself without corruption. However, that being said, I am not for mobs dictating political outcomes. That is not democracy.

have you been sleeping over the winter ?

I'll give you an update of what the majority of Thai people want in 4 easy steps

Thakisns PTP Gone - Reforms - referendum - Election

In that order

That's exactly how it has to happen !!

As long as the Camel Dung and his clan are still running this country it will stay on the path of Total DESTRUCTION !!

Farmers will continue to die !!

Children will continue to be killed !!

Monks will continue to be beating up !!

Grenades attacks will continue !!

Buildings will continue to be burnt down !!

Thuggery,Intimidation on Judges and on the Innocent public will continue !!

Rice shams, Flood shams with money from these and many many more will continuously to Disappear in Large Amounts with No Accountability !!

etc,etc,etc ......

Now I'm not saying Suthep is the answer either !! I mean he's had his hand in the cookie jar as well and stole some cookies But Not The Whole Cookie Factory !!!!! like the Red Shirts have !!

But change has to come for the better of Thailand and at least he sees this and is trying to do SOMETHING ABOUT IT !!

Now I know all you Red Shirt Flag Waving minions will say then win an election !!

Well if Reforms went through to at least to stop things like Criminals can't run for any public office ever !! Vote buying if caught charged and jailed(and after never allow to run for any public office again)

Just on these two reforms that would end the Camel Jockey and his clan from ever holding any public office's ever again !! and that go's for people on both sides which would be a good thing

and don't ever ever ever allow another puppet as a PM !!! How this was ever allowed to happen is a complete joke as it is !!!!

REFORMS have to happen !! Other wise Governments like this one will continuously DESTROY this Country !!

I want something anything for the better to happen for my children then whats happening to their country NOW !!!!

We had peace, a booming economy, a stock market at its peak, inward investment as the entry to ASEAN, a Hua Hin holiday, booming tourism.

And BlueSky filled your minds with lies and hate and nonsense, and you believed it.

Go home.

Who Had ????? I am home thanks, so in the last 2 years we had dictatorial government and loss of over 1 trillion Bht, do you think they are protesting over your fantastic achievements????

[Thaddeus]

"Thousands of Thai anti-government protesters march in Bangkok"

>This is not anti-Govt.

>This is anti-democracy

>This is pro-coup

>Those seeking to power their way into governance via non-electoral means, are not protesters....Protesters by definition are 'against something"...These people are 'for' something.

That said, it is pitiful seeing them run about the streets, when very obviously should be expressing themselves at the ballot box and in parliament.

Everyone to their own I guess. To see an electoral minority seek to assert itself over an electoral majority is folderol.

Without playing the numbers game with these people today, it can be safely said they would be dwarfed by the electoral majority should they gather at one place, on one particular day.

I would love to know where you found that definition?

Did you know that an anagram of his name is Prefab Pylons, about as solid as his arguments.

[Siripon]

Regarding numbers, let's not forget the extreme heat dissuades many from walking the streets, the old, the not so young may well support reforms-just look at the number of houses watching Blue Sky in Bangkok- but only the hardy will venture out in the midday sun( apart from mad dogs and Englishmen).

It's a difficult time for red shirts, as Chairwoman of the Rice Committee, Yingluck has presided over one of the greatest lossmaking schemes in Thailand's history.

With sales surrounded in secrecy and frequent warnings from many sources she has ignored all advice.

Thaksin's plan for world rice prices to rise within 3 years and hence cover the subsidy lies in tatters. Do the red shirts seriously expect anyone in the world community to have any sympathy for Yingluck?

Most of the world is probably wondering how she managed to stay in power so long with such a dreadful record.

[Old Man River]

Regarding numbers, let's not forget the extreme heat dissuades many from walking the streets, the old, the not so young may well support reforms-just look at the number of houses watching Blue Sky in Bangkok- but only the hardy will venture out in the midday sun( apart from mad dogs and Englishmen).

It's a difficult time for red shirts, as Chairwoman of the Rice Committee, Yingluck has presided over one of the greatest lossmaking schemes in Thailand's history.

With sales surrounded in secrecy and frequent warnings from many sources she has ignored all advice.

Thaksin's plan for world rice prices to rise within 3 years and hence cover the subsidy lies in tatters. Do the red shirts seriously expect anyone in the world community to have any sympathy for Yingluck?

Most of the world is probably wondering how she managed to stay in power so long with such a dreadful record.

Yesterday was a day of solidarity for many of the alumni associations of local Thai universities, despite the heat. Still, the numbers are academic. Today is Election Day and it remains to be seen if the PTP can sweep the board.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[Pimay1]

This news just in.........66.5 million people show their support for democracy and the elected government by boycotting Suthep's silly little parade!

Can we use that same "logic" when the red shirts make parades in support of Yingluck and the PTP? :-)

Can we use that same "logic" when the red shirts make parades in support of Yingluck and the PTP? :-)

Absolutely not. This is red logic to be used only by red supporters when the opposition make parades against Yingluck and the PTP.

Red Logic:

Illogical, irrational, unreasonable, unsound, unreasoned, unjustifiable, groundless, unfounded, incorrect, erroneous, invalid, spurious, faulty, flawed, fallacious, unscientific, specious, sophistic, casuistic, absurd, preposterous and untenable just to name a few.

[Donnie Brasco]

Much more catastrophic to the political conversation than hordes of ill-educated, dark-skinned farmers voting might be the smatterings of local English-speaking politicos and the export-grade foreign students from Thailand who post on TV.

Sorry, but most of you lot have such a poor understanding of English usage and English nuance on the one hand and on the other hand such a poor appreciation of the extent to which many of us foreigners have educated ourselves about YOUR country that you might be better sticking to Thai-language forums.

Climbing on to Thai Visa to show off to your other English-speaking buddies or to insult native English speakers just makes you look silly.

(Not that you actually care, it seems. But, it really DOES make you look Sadupradit.)

"Sometimes, 'fuggedabowdit' just means fuggedabowdit. . . . "

[monkeycountry]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

One more point, and this should be obvious to everyone.

Bangkok is supposed to be a Democrat yellow stronghold. Yet 99.9% of Bangkok did not go to these protests.

Bangkok will be Pheu Thai seats at the next election.

Not in the next election or in your life time Blue nose ..........BUT, maybe ,just maybe. In your Dreams alt=rolleyes.gif width=20 height=20> ..... alt=coffee1.gif width=32 height=24>

"Bangkok is supposed to be a Democrat yellow stronghold. Yet 99.9% of Bangkok did not go to these protests."

What rubbish.

Therefore your saying 99.9% are upcountry folks?

Because it's difficult to defend the government anymore, these are the stupid comments that are posted,

B/N/Codger said only 1% of protesters were from BKK. Trying to argue that the truth is wrong --pro government posters. What will you all do when most of your hero's/+ PM are ousted ??? will you all favour the new government that should be transparent ??? I do not think so, you will fight against it. The same you are fighting against the vast majority of posters here.

Not 1%, it's only 0.1%.

i.e. 14000 / 14.5 million = 0.0965% of Bangkok

14000 people at the big protest here, estimated using this method.

14.5 million is the population of Greater Bangkok, taken from Wikipedia page.

So that means that 14,486,000 people did not go to the protest in their own city, or 99.9% of Bangkok, in a city that is supposed to be yellow politically.

"What will you all do when most of your hero's/+ PM are ousted"

Ignore the coup and get on with the democracy anyway.

When the UDD holds rallies in Bangkok in support of Yingluck and the PTP and say 50,000 ppl show up (high number to make you happy), I then assume that the 14,500,000 - 50,000 = 14,450,000 that do not show up are against Yingluck/PTP/UDD? I am using your own "logic", so I assume you agree?

[wolfmanjack]

He said, they said, we want, they want.

The only way in which to truly gauge the voice of the people is to hold a referendum on reforms before an elections with a straight forward two boxes YES or NO

And then another question "peoples council" to lead reforms with the same two boxes YES or NO.. The PDRC can then run a YES/YES campaign and allow the referendum to run impeded, if they get the majority, then exit stage left for Yingluck, and the PTP and they can run off and rethink a strategy that will allow them to challenge for when the elections are announced post reformation.

There should be a 12 month cap on these reforms, and if nothing has been agreed across all parties, then the Military take control for another 6 month period, Reforms are much needed, but the time frame has to be short and swift, to allow any thoughts about the peoples council never relinquishing their power, which is no doubt what some people fear. Most Thais just want to get on with their daily lives, they should be able to do so.

I disagree many of the people are really and truly are unaware of what is going on. The PTP red shirts have made it such a campaign to look like Suthep is trying to seize the power himself that they are unaware of the reality of his seeking honest reforms before an election. They have done such a good job of it that even some supposedly educated farongs believe that is what it is all about.

The PTP along with their militant arm have been straight out lying trying to get people to think Suthep does not want elections any more just appointed P M's and their cabinets. Also that he is the one he wants appointed.

There's no doubt that there's been some manipulation, but what are you basing your statement off? Personal experience within your village or something else? The villagers where I stay were more interested in The ladies International volleyball team.. I have asked why they support Thaksins Red parties, which to be quite honest is a very personal question, and is really none of my business, being a farang and all that, but they said we know he is a bad man, and he stole money from Buddha but they didn't like the alternatives.. In the weeks I was there, I never seen any people turn up and speak to the villagers en-masse, nobody came to the home either.. I think you might also find John is that many small villagers are actually oblivious to what's going on in Bangkok too.

In all the homes I visited, I never saw a single picture of Thaksin, none of the family have pictures either, and not one was glued to propaganda tv channels either in my times of visit, not to say they don't watch them but most were watching stupid soaps and sports..

Now, isn't it the usual thing for political parties to demonise the opposition? Look at the dirty tricks campaigns that happen within the UK, allegations and counter allegations, mud slinging and out and out hatred for each other, same within the US and it's probably the same all over the EU, isn't it the normal thing to do than to twist everything around to suit YOUR agenda? That's not a PTP/UDD thing, that's normal run of the mill politics.

Vote buying, it's a red herring, if candidate A states he will reduce income tax by 5% when he's in power, and candidate B says he will increase Income tax by 5% to give more money towards the education budget, which one is more appealing to the working man.woman? .. that's vote buying too. Vote buying is just a buzz word for an "incentive to vote for person X"

But you still don't address my point is that education of the masses has to start with how ones self presents himself to others, calling everyone in the North and East thick, stupid Buffalos, who are ignorant dumb and too stupid to vote, when you're trying to get their votes isn't exactly a way to go about things is it??

"But you still don't address my point is that education of the masses has to start with how ones self presents himself to others, calling everyone in the North and East thick, stupid Buffalos, who are ignorant dumb and too stupid to vote, when you're trying to get their votes isn't exactly a way to go about things is it?? "

No it is not. but that goes to show your level of comprehension of the problem that was the theme put forth and retracted by the Yellow shirts in 2008 or 09 not sure which when they occupied the air port. Even before they occupied the air port they had dropped that part.

My contention is they are to stupid to have an informed vote. Your experience backs up my statement weather you like it or not. They are clueless.

How I or you present are selves to the masses has nothing to do with starting education. That is the governments job and in the last 14 years it has not happened. 10 of those years have had Thaksin at the throttle. Education wise it has been full speed spinning of the wheels.

At least the Dems did start on making education available for all by making the p grades free. Last year we started having to pay again.