Chiang Mai -vs- Ecuador

[Jingthing]

santaf,

Can you possibly supply a link about the issue of needing some kind of re-application for residency in Ecuador based on CD deposit, real estate, or pension every 10 years.

That was the first time I've heard about that, here.

My understanding (I still have it) for example is that if you get residency based on real estate purchase for example, that qualification would apply for life under current immigration laws, except if you sell the real estate.

Now of course rules can change and there are visa transfer headaches when NEW passports are issued down the line, but I wouldn't want people to get the impression that new applications are really required every 10 years, if they aren't. Yes it's important especially for younger retired expats who expect to live over 10 years!

Perhaps, just guessing here, maybe you're talking about some kind of technical renewal rather than a fresh application.

As you know there are some major hassles with the initial application for residency in Ecuador, with their obsession with apostle, having to do that again after you've lived there 10 years, that would be bad.

Edited April 2, 2014 by Jingthing

[LaraC]

It would take you a week to find a group (of locals) this ugly in CM.

Mind you, they seem well matched for most of the expats that end up in Thailand.

[northernjohn]

If/when I explore Colombia or Ecuador, it's likely to be while I'm already visiting the USA.

I recently did a rough price check for both trips.

RT to Cuenca from east coast USA -- over 1000 dollars. Change in Quito.

RT to Medellin Colombia -- about 750 dollars. Direct.

For those who always thought Mexico was an option for lower income retired expats, think again, they have recently massively raised their financial requirements. The level now is well above the average USA social security pension check. Yes people are afraid of Mexico now due to the drug violence but there are still nice and safe places, like Puerto Vallarta.

Cuenca really is geographically undesirable as far as international connections, always having to go through Quito.

Boots on the ground info here from someone living in Cuenca Ecuador. BTW, Cuenca is widely regarded as the most desirable city to live in Ecuador for expats due to size, climate, geography etc.

About getting to Cuenca:

Guayaquil (GYE) is actually the largest city in Ecuador, not Quito and it's actually much easier to fly to Guayaquil and then take the bus, a van or even a taxi to Cuenca. Cheapest flights to GYE is from Miami, return tickets around $500 (can be as low as $450 sometimes). From the US, Miami and Houston are the hubs to fly to Ecuador. Kayak is a good search engine for flights. Bus takes just under 4 hours, costs about $8. I don't recommend the van due to reports of erratic driving, can be especially unnerving when going up and down the mountains, it's also a bit more crammed. Taxi fares are negotiable, can take you door to door, say about $100.

Return fares from MIA to Quito is much the same as GYE, a bit more from Houston. From Quito, best to fly to Cuenca, one way about $50-$60, return about $80-$100. Flight only takes 45 minutes, and there are many flights throughout the day. Expedia and eDreams are good search engines for domestic flights within Ecuador. If you choose to fly to Quito, either take your time to check out Quito, or avoid the layover altogether. The new airport isn't easy to get to, it would be a hassle to overnight in town and come back for the Cuenca flight. Bus takes about 10 hours, why bother?

Air Travel in S. America

I also want to take this opportunity to correct Northernjohn's misinterpretation from my original post (#86) about flying in the region. I did not say Thailand is 10 times cheaper, I did not say it's expensive to fly out of Ecuador. The problem I'm referring to is air travel within S. America generally. In SE Asia you have Air Asia, in Europe you have Easyjet and Ryan Air, in the US you have Southwest - discount airlines for the continent, you can get around by air cheaply but we don't have anything like that in S America. LAN and TACA seem to go everywhere but they are not cheap by any means. So air travel from one country to the next is relatively much more expensive. In some countries such as Argentina and Ecuador, locals get cheap domestic flights but foreigners pay a lot more, such as flying to Galapagos. If you want to get to Uruguay, best to fly to Buenos Aires, and then travel overland. It's cheap and easy. Uruguay is just on the other side of the river from Buenos Aires. I doubt if anyone who enjoys living in Thailand would really like Uruguay unless you are into ranching or a quiet pastoral life. Not much going on in Uruguay.

Thanks for the added information and the clarification.

when I was looking at Uruguay they were billing it as the Rivera of South America.

Here I am 10 years later and the pastoral life close to a beach looks good. But not going to happen. Going to be barbequed here in Chiang Mai.

Not going to get into the details but I notice the Thai women at least the over 50 generation are very good at care giving. How is that in Ecuador?

[northernjohn]

Great point about Guayaquil more convenient to Cuenca but most U.S. cities don't fly directly there, rather to Quito. I still think Cuenca is geographically inconvenient, but so is Chiang Mai compared to Bangkok.

Thanks Cuenca dude, for coming on here.

For an exploratory trip to Cuenca to get a fair chance to decently explore it with the idea of a retirement residence possibility, how long a visit would you suggest? I would think a month.

Obviously if you arrived and HATED IT the first day or so, booking a month would be a mistake ...

Every one is different. My first trip to Thailand was for a month. When I went home I realized I really hadn't seen much of Thailand. No I never even set foot into a bar.

[Jingthing]

First impressions don't always determine destiny either.

I remember my first flight into Chiang Mai just seeing it from the air, I felt, I want to retire here.

The same trip, my first trip to Pattaya, my first impression was that it was a stinky hell hole.

I didn't move to Chiang Mai.

[santaf]

santaf,

Can you possibly supply a link about the issue of needing some kind of re-application for residency in Ecuador based on CD deposit, real estate, or pension every 10 years.

That was the first time I've heard about that, here.

My understanding (I still have it) for example is that if you get residency based on real estate purchase for example, that qualification would apply for life under current immigration laws, except if you sell the real estate.

Now of course rules can change and there are visa transfer headaches when NEW passports are issued down the line, but I wouldn't want people to get the impression that new applications are really required every 10 years, if they aren't. Yes it's important especially for younger retired expats who expect to live over 10 years!

Perhaps, just guessing here, maybe you're talking about some kind of technical renewal rather than a fresh application.

As you know there are some major hassles with the initial application for residency in Ecuador, with their obsession with apostle, having to do that again after you've lived there 10 years, that would be bad.

Residency visa validity and renewal

We are not talking about having to "re-apply" here every 10 years but to "renew". Your residency visa and cedula (ID card) are good for 10 years from the date of issue. This is really no different from your passport, green card, drivers license etc. They are usually valid for a fixed number of years, then you have to fill in a form, update details, pay a fee to renew - the procedures for renewal are generally more routine. Your initial application needs to prove that you qualify, that's why it's more stringent. For a start, I wouldn't have thought that you would need to provide a police report from your country for the renewal once you've been a resident in Ecuador for a while. It's always more straight forward getting paperwork that comes from the local jurisdiction. Getting any report, or anything notarized and apostilled in Ecuador is very simple if you have to do it and super cheap (costs just $1 for notarization). For all intents and purposes, once you have residency, it is practically permanent unless you choose not to renew when the time comes. (or unless a new regime changes the rules). Sorry don't have link off hand. The Ecuadorian embassy in the US would be a good official source for visa requirements and validity. If you are of retirement age and have social security/pension income, it would be the easiest way to qualify - much easier than the investment route.

Also if you want to do away with having to renew in 10 years, why not apply for citizenship when you've done your time to qualify? It will take care of future renewals once and for all.

Citizenship

Another point you raised Jingthing in one of your posts "what's the point of having citizenship?" The whole point about having citizenship anywhere is to have a second (or third) passport, which can be extremely valuable. It also kind of guarantees permanent residency rights. Seem to remember reading somewhere that Thaksin Shinawatra has 6 passports. See what I mean?

Flying to Guayaquil (why-i-kill)

And yes, I believe you can fly to GYE just as easily as UIO from most cities in the US. American Airlines flies there for a start.

About travelling in S.America, once you have residency, you will be eligible for cheaper domestic flights in Ecuador, though the network is really quite limited. Also when you are over 60 (I think it's 60), you also qualify for many discounts like for air travel.

Cuenca visit

About how long to stay in Cuenca to check it out, it's really hard to stay. If you are serious about living here, the longer the better to give you a good impression. Also as you said, you might not like it here. There's not a great deal to do and see here, it's really just the "immersion" experience. Cuenca has the feel of a small provincial town though it has a population of 500,000. It might be a good idea to combine it with a trip to Medellin which is more of a happening place and people have also raved about as a expat/retirement haven. Better be flexible with your plans.

Edited April 2, 2014 by santaf

[Jingthing]

Thanks very much for all that.

It sounds as I thought, basically the one time qualification process for life under current rules, as long as you maintain your status (such as keeping your CD deposit going, etc.)

That residency thing even though it's quite a bit more of a hassle to get in the first place compared to Thailand's annual extension process, is definitely a part of Ecuador's appeal to expats. Of course, they can change the game any time they want just like anywhere.

[balo]

Do they understand English in Equador ?

[santaf]

Thanks very much for all that.

It sounds as I thought, basically the one time qualification process for life under current rules, as long as you maintain your status (such as keeping your CD deposit going, etc.)

That residency thing even though it's quite a bit more of a hassle to get in the first place compared to Thailand's annual extension process, is definitely a part of Ecuador's appeal to expats. Of course, they can change the game any time they want just like anywhere.

Police report for residency

The residency application process is tedious but not all that difficult. It's really all a matter of getting your ducks in a row, dotting i's and crossing t's. Don't let that put you off. If you are serious about it, I would check with the Ecuadorian Embassy in Thailand about whether a police report from Thailand would work for the visa application. You'd then probably get a certified translation from Thai into Spanish and have the Ecuadorian Embassy in Thailand sign off on it, I would have thought. One other catch is it has to be done - getting the application in, within 90 days, that's how long the police report is usually valid for.

For anyone into checking out Ecuador some more, have a look at Gringo Tree: http://gringotree.com/ for more local info, including residency visas and such. It's kind of like a very crude version of this forum - though there is no forum to speak of, more like a bulletin board. Seems like all the Gringo expats in Ecuador check in there.

Chiang Mai air quality

Back to the original thread of comparing Chiang Mai to Ecuador, comparing apples with apples, I would say Cuenca is a close match as a city in terms of size and topography. Cuenca has population of 500k, set in mountains with 4 rivers running through it, at 8,000 ft altitude. The air quality here is very good, except when you are out and about in the streets - buses and trucks belch out horrendous black fumes. As I'm contemplating a "reverse move" heading for Thailand, I'm a bit concerned about the air quality I've been reading about in Chiang Mai, as I came to Ecuador partly to escape the chemtrails in the US.

Is this only a seasonal concern from slash and burn? Is the air quality ok the rest of the year? How bad is it? Not as bad as Beijing I hope. I know there are other threads on this but just want a quick take.

Edited April 3, 2014 by santaf

[northernjohn]

Thanks very much for all that.

It sounds as I thought, basically the one time qualification process for life under current rules, as long as you maintain your status (such as keeping your CD deposit going, etc.)

That residency thing even though it's quite a bit more of a hassle to get in the first place compared to Thailand's annual extension process, is definitely a part of Ecuador's appeal to expats. Of course, they can change the game any time they want just like anywhere.

Police report for residency

The residency application process is tedious but not all that difficult. It's really all a matter of getting your ducks in a row, dotting i's and crossing t's. Don't let that put you off. If you are serious about it, I would check with the Ecuadorian Embassy in Thailand about whether a police report from Thailand would work for the visa application. You'd then probably get a certified translation from Thai into Spanish and have the Ecuadorian Embassy in Thailand sign off on it, I would have thought. One other catch is it has to be done - getting the application in, within 90 days, that's how long the police report is usually valid for.

For anyone into checking out Ecuador some more, have a look at Gringo Tree: http://gringotree.com/ for more local info, including residency visas and such. It's kind of like a very crude version of this forum - though there is no forum to speak of, more like a bulletin board. Seems like all the Gringo expats in Ecuador check in there.

Chiang Mai air quality

Back to the original thread of comparing Chiang Mai to Ecuador, comparing apples with apples, I would say Cuenca is a close match as a city in terms of size and topography. Cuenca has population of 500k, set in mountains with 4 rivers running through it, at 8,000 ft altitude. The air quality here is very good, except when you are out and about in the streets - buses and trucks belch out horrendous black fumes. As I'm contemplating a "reverse move" heading for Thailand, I'm a bit concerned about the air quality I've been reading about in Chiang Mai, as I came to Ecuador partly to escape the chemtrails in the US.

Is this only a seasonal concern from slash and burn? Is the air quality ok the rest of the year? How bad is it? Not as bad as Beijing I hope. I know there are other threads on this but just want a quick take.

It is just a seasonal thing.

How ever if you are sensitive to normal auto emissions the down town might be a bit off putting. For the most part though the vehicles are not black smoke producing. In fact it is very rare to see it. That is not a denial that it is here just that it is not a problem for most people as it is a rare thing.

I hadn't thought of it but you might enjoy the lower altitude. As for being in the mountains. Well how about we have some hills around us?

[Jingthing]

The new rule is 180 days for the police report, not 90 days.

[mrmillersr]

Thanks very much for all that.

It sounds as I thought, basically the one time qualification process for life under current rules, as long as you maintain your status (such as keeping your CD deposit going, etc.)

That residency thing even though it's quite a bit more of a hassle to get in the first place compared to Thailand's annual extension process, is definitely a part of Ecuador's appeal to expats. Of course, they can change the game any time they want just like anywhere.

Police report for residency

The residency application process is tedious but not all that difficult. It's really all a matter of getting your ducks in a row, dotting i's and crossing t's. Don't let that put you off. If you are serious about it, I would check with the Ecuadorian Embassy in Thailand about whether a police report from Thailand would work for the visa application. You'd then probably get a certified translation from Thai into Spanish and have the Ecuadorian Embassy in Thailand sign off on it, I would have thought. One other catch is it has to be done - getting the application in, within 90 days, that's how long the police report is usually valid for.

For anyone into checking out Ecuador some more, have a look at Gringo Tree: http://gringotree.com/ for more local info, including residency visas and such. It's kind of like a very crude version of this forum - though there is no forum to speak of, more like a bulletin board. Seems like all the Gringo expats in Ecuador check in there.

Chiang Mai air quality

Back to the original thread of comparing Chiang Mai to Ecuador, comparing apples with apples, I would say Cuenca is a close match as a city in terms of size and topography. Cuenca has population of 500k, set in mountains with 4 rivers running through it, at 8,000 ft altitude. The air quality here is very good, except when you are out and about in the streets - buses and trucks belch out horrendous black fumes. As I'm contemplating a "reverse move" heading for Thailand, I'm a bit concerned about the air quality I've been reading about in Chiang Mai, as I came to Ecuador partly to escape the chemtrails in the US.

Is this only a seasonal concern from slash and burn? Is the air quality ok the rest of the year? How bad is it? Not as bad as Beijing I hope. I know there are other threads on this but just want a quick take.

It's bad enough that I left after living here for 5 years. If you do some more reading and research you will see high levels of pollution can occur anytime from December thru April,

As an example, last year in January, 6 out of 30 days had PM 2.5 levels that exceeded Thai standards, which are very liberal to say the least. Even limited exposure to elevated PM 2.5 levels can have a serious impact on one's health so this is not a trivial matter. It's also been found there is a direct correlation for increased cardiovascular disease and cancers for ever 10 ug/m increase in PM 2.5 levels. While you won't find the PM 2.5 levels for Chiang Mai posted anywhere, a former study determined the average levels of PM 2.5 to be around 75% of what the PM 10 levels were. That being the case puts the PM 2.5 levels in Chiang Mai at very hazardous levels for quite a few days each year. Way too many to make it a desirable place to move to in my opinion.

My advice is if you are concerned about your health find another location in Thailand to live and just visit Chiang Mai when the air is cleaner. if you do decide to come, you may start to rethink how life was in Ecuador and long to return.

[Jingthing]

Chiang Mai was my top choice in Thailand but I rejected living there based on the air pollution issues. (I have asthma.) Similarly the altitude of Cuenca might also be a problem for me ... not sure. But it's not just the issue of not moving there if you already have lung issues but acquiring them by living there.

[santaf]

Thanks for the info. I'm not hung up on Chiang Mai and am having second thoughts. Air quality is an important consideration. The main reason for me to pick Chiang Mai is that I really like the sound of the Panyaden School. Other than that, the nomadic lifestyle suits us very well and we are not into settling anywhere long term just yet. We could get out of town for March and April during the school holidays and for Christmas and New Year if the problem is only seasonal. I'll definitely be looking into this some more.

[santaf]

BTW, you only need to have lived in Ecuador for 3 years as a resident to qualify for citizenship (apply for naturalization), not 7 as I thought.

[hagler]

Biggest problem with any South American country is that it is near to North America.

Thailand wins between the two in my world

[arunsakda]

I clicked on this thread hoping there was an International Football friendlie coming up..

[jaideeguy]

Thanks OP for this thread, as I am 'trapped' indoors because of the d*mn heat, filthy air and looming songkran holiday. My 12th songkran and hot smoggy summer here now and every summer, I tell myself..........'this one is the last!!' and I occupy myself by going on a cyber search for a cooler, cleaner place preferably in SE Asia, because of the cost of moving my Thai family to a place that is 'too foreign'.

In my research of a cooler city with a stable expat friendly government, decent infrastructure [internet, good roads, utilities etc], I have come to the conclusion that it doesn't exist on this continent.

But it does exist in South America............Ecuador!!

If I was single, I wouldn't hesitate to at least check Ecuador out for a couple of months to confirm the praises that EC gets from all the forums and blogs with expats raving about the food, culture, beauty, weather, cost of living, ease of actually owning a house, and getting resident status.

I've spent a few months in Mexico during my younger years and picked up more rough conversational Spanish than I have the Thai language after 12+ years, so I feel confident in learning more.

Besides the cooler, cleaner climate, the cost of living is roughly the same as CM as this site compares costs of CM and Cuenca.

http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/compare_cities.jsp?country1=Thailand&country2=Ecuador&city1=Chiang+Mai&city2=Cuenca

But, will a Thai be open to relocating to such a foreign place where there is only one Thai restaurant in the whole country??

[Jingthing]

It would be tough for a Thai if they need authentic Thai food.

That other blog mentioned coconut milk was eventually found at 5 dollars a can.

There is spicy food available, such as Peruvian style ceviche with chile sauce on the side, which does have Asian influences to it.

Also South American style Chinese food ... they've got fried rice anyway!

Heck it would be tough for me to live there as I love all kinds of Asian food ... for me that's an argument to move back the U.S. if I do leave Thailand.

As far as pollution in Cuenca, just based on web info, there is an air pollution problem from the dirty BUS system there, but they are in the process of building a super modern urban light rail system there, though they recently changed mayors and there might be some question about his commitment to follow through with it.

I'm interested in checking out Cuenca myself, and am considering doing so soon, but on the other hand, I wonder if it would be smarter to wait until the new transport system is finished (or perhaps scrapped?), as I think that will likely change the experience of that city a lot.

http://www.cuencahighlife.com/post/2013/08/05/Mayor-says-Cuenca-transportation-system-will-be-a-model-for-Latin-America3b-new-taxi-fares-considered-and-the-expat-bullfrog.aspx

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dl3KajDTaqo

BTW, I have also read that even now most expats there do not own cars.

Another detail, probably not that important to many but interesting to me. My understanding is that Spanish spoken in Quito or Cuenca is more of a "normal" style of Latin American Spanish as opposed to say Medellin where apparently they speak with a more archaic Basque-like dialect, or Chile which is famous for being fantastically slang-y. Cuenca is a very popular destination to study Spanish as well.

Edited April 5, 2014 by Jingthing

[jaideeguy]

Yeah JT, I read about the diesel bus pollution issue in Cuenca, but that's confined to the downtown area and with all the rains there, I'm sure that it is way less than what we are experiencing here in northern LOS for half the year. Probably no worse than CM on a clear day.

I've done a lot of google earth zooming and am amazed at the lack of traffic on the roads.

After convincing the Thai wife, my biggest challenge now is finding an international school for my 2 adopted kids 15 and 16yrs. Does anyone have any knowledge of international schooling in Ec?? They speak and understand English decently, but I think they will be somewhat handicapped with Spanish. There is one International school in Quito that I found, but Quito is not as gringo friendly as Cuenca??