TDRI says corruption in rice scheme exceeds 450 billion baht

[aussieinthailand]

There is always a money trail, but there also must be the will to follow it and to prosecute were guilt is found without any protections afforded to anyone...

[pookiki]

At the very least, it would be helpful if the organization disclosed the methodology it used to reach its conclusions.

[noitom]

It circles back in to the Thai economy. The fat cats buy cars, clothes, food, sex, music, electronic merchandise, no books, but they send back a lot of the skim in to the Thai economy, legitimate and black.

[klauskunkel]

"total damage from corruption amounted to over 450 billion baht, or equivalent to 60% of total sum used for the rice-pledging scheme."

I'm no fan of the scheme and am sure there was a lot of corruption, but surely not 60%. That's insane, no one could be stupid enough to think they could get away with that level of criminality.

...actually, I can think of quite a few stupid enough...and they are all cabinet members...

[meatboy]

I think the 450 billion baht corruption figure is somewhat low, based on recent audit reports, ( using what little info could be choked out of the 5 ministries/groups involved) Once the shortages, storage, fumigation, police oversight, commerce inventory team cost,finance inventory, Ag bank inventorty, etc is added in, I think it will approach double this figure.

Then try to account for the monies received for what rice has gone out of government stockpile, including pre 2012 harvested rice and you have another nightmare.

The billion dollar question is, where did the 1 billion dollars, returned to the sand rat, pop up from? This government has been shuffling vast sums around since assuming office. What sector of the Thai population was short changed on this transaction?

its no wonder this country is in a mess 450billion thieved from one scheme,now we see why the railways are in a mess,the roads,education ect.ect.ect.and not forgetting the people who work hard every day and got f-all.

[Nip]

but the 60,000 dollar question is,who if anybody is to blame?

Easy. The Dive Instructors in Phuket. Must be them!

[binjalin]

"total damage from corruption amounted to over 450 billion baht, or equivalent to 60% of total sum used for the rice-pledging scheme."

I'm no fan of the scheme and am sure there was a lot of corruption, but surely not 60%. That's insane, no one could be stupid enough to think they could get away with that level of criminality.

for once we are in agreement

I hate all this "it's all there fault" ALL corruption on EITHER side should be exposed - I remember Abhisit was charged with rice corruption too - can't we take the politics OUT of corruption and condemn it ALL?

Yes convict all that are corrupt.. for now that is YL and those involved in this failed corrupt program. Yesterday there was a democrat senator that seemed to be corrupt and i was just as hard advocating there for jail time. I really hope they will get the guilty PTPers in this program and really punish them. (that its PTP is obvious as its a PTP program)

Once corruption is really attacked it will be less profitable for crooks to have a position in government and a lot of this fighting will end as there is less money involved. Convicting Taksin was a good thing but not harsh enough.. and they should have taken on others too. Examples must be made and then other convictions.

you forgot to mention Suthep and his land deals... you see the problem is that corruption here is not treated fairly and I do not for ONE second believe YL was corrupt - so your comment let's itself down very badly as POLITICALLY motivated

take the politics OUT of corruption - condemn them ALL

Edited April 2, 2014 by binjalin

[Nickymaster]

Nothing new. We have heard this for years from all corners of the country and the world and Yingluck hasn't tried to improve it. Why not? Because it is fairly obvious her family is making billions out of it. And then this sick lady keeps on using the farmers as a smoke screen.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[likewise]

Indeed Suthep is no angel regarding corruption but the Shin clan does beat them all.

Corruption is rooted so deep here it will take generations to get rid of it, if they will ever succeed ! Sad state of affairs, to have to choose between less corrupt or highly corrupt !

[robblok]

"total damage from corruption amounted to over 450 billion baht, or equivalent to 60% of total sum used for the rice-pledging scheme."

I'm no fan of the scheme and am sure there was a lot of corruption, but surely not 60%. That's insane, no one could be stupid enough to think they could get away with that level of criminality.

for once we are in agreement

I hate all this "it's all there fault" ALL corruption on EITHER side should be exposed - I remember Abhisit was charged with rice corruption too - can't we take the politics OUT of corruption and condemn it ALL?

Yes convict all that are corrupt.. for now that is YL and those involved in this failed corrupt program. Yesterday there was a democrat senator that seemed to be corrupt and i was just as hard advocating there for jail time. I really hope they will get the guilty PTPers in this program and really punish them. (that its PTP is obvious as its a PTP program)

Once corruption is really attacked it will be less profitable for crooks to have a position in government and a lot of this fighting will end as there is less money involved. Convicting Taksin was a good thing but not harsh enough.. and they should have taken on others too. Examples must be made and then other convictions.

you forgot to mention Suthep and his land deals... you see the problem is that corruption here is not treated fairly and I do not for ONE second believe YL was corrupt - so your comment let's itself down very badly as POLITICALLY motivated

take the politics OUT of corruption - condemn them ALL

IF they can find proof (no love here for Suthep) convict him I say corrupt is corrupt. But now its YL her turn and the fact that they are not going after Suthep is not making her less guilty. But please go after him too corrupt is corrupt.

[Nickymaster]

"total damage from corruption amounted to over 450 billion baht, or equivalent to 60% of total sum used for the rice-pledging scheme."

I'm no fan of the scheme and am sure there was a lot of corruption, but surely not 60%. That's insane, no one could be stupid enough to think they could get away with that level of criminality.

for once we are in agreement

I hate all this "it's all there fault" ALL corruption on EITHER side should be exposed - I remember Abhisit was charged with rice corruption too - can't we take the politics OUT of corruption and condemn it ALL?

Yes convict all that are corrupt.. for now that is YL and those involved in this failed corrupt program. Yesterday there was a democrat senator that seemed to be corrupt and i was just as hard advocating there for jail time. I really hope they will get the guilty PTPers in this program and really punish them. (that its PTP is obvious as its a PTP program)

Once corruption is really attacked it will be less profitable for crooks to have a position in government and a lot of this fighting will end as there is less money involved. Convicting Taksin was a good thing but not harsh enough.. and they should have taken on others too. Examples must be made and then other convictions.

you forgot to mention Suthep and his land deals... you see the problem is that corruption here is not treated fairly and I do not for ONE second believe YL was corrupt - so your comment let's itself down very badly as POLITICALLY motivated

take the politics OUT of corruption - condemn them ALL

450 billion gone under Yingluck's watch. Believe what you want but that is the truth and she should be punished.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Malone]

you forgot to mention Suthep and his land deals... you see the problem is that corruption here is not treated fairly and I do not for ONE second believe YL was corrupt - so your comment let's itself down very badly as POLITICALLY motivated

As does yours for proclaiming innocence upon Yingluck (without proof) when HER rice scam is mired in unprecedented corruption while implying guilt upon Suthep (without proof).

[geriatrickid]

The TDRI has not made the claim. Rather, one of its "Fellows" has made the claim. Wouldn't it be nice if the chap made the data/information upon which he made his claim public? Niphon is an economist by trade and lasted 2 years as the dean of economics at Thammasat. Economists have a bad habit of making an assumption or assumptions and then going from there. Financial analysts and forensic accountants deal in reality, actual facts. Let him present his supporting documentation.

I'm not going to insult the fellow by mocking his education at Tennessee Middle State or the University of Hawaii, because these are not universities who have turned out nobel laureates in economics . However, I am sure that he was at least taught during his years at those universities that a claim must be backed up with actual reliable data, in order for it to be taken seriously. I find it amusing that Niphon had no problem hitching up to the ADB as a consultant when the opportunity arose, and the ADB reputation is well known, and yet he opines on "corruption" in a state sponsored subsidy program. I don't doubt for a minute that there was corruption or that money was stolen. It is a characteristic of Asian agricultural subsidy programs. However, I do question his estimate as he didn't reveal his assumptions, his methodology or the data pool.

[geriatrickid]

450 billion gone under Yingluck's watch. Believe what you want but that is the truth and she should be punished.

And on what basis do you make the claim? Can you please direct me to the actual evidence that supports the claim? You make your statement because you want to believe the opinion of one man. If you were truly motivated by a sense of justice, you would be asking how this man came to his conclusion.

[Tatsujin]

40-60% is the "standard" since Thaksin took over running the country.

And those figures, whilst shocking, are too low, they haven't even scratched the surface of just how much has been creamed off the public purse over the past few years.

As I've said many times, PT/Thaksin are as elite as they come and they don't give a crap about "the poor" except as a means to an end.

You voted for them, now you see some of the consequences if you'd just open your eyes. Personally I'd rather have my tax money put to better use rather than lining the pockets of the most corrupt, disgusting, lying, immoral people in (and out of) Thailand.

[Malone]

The TDRI has not made the claim. Rather, one of its "Fellows" has made the claim.

He's certainly not alone. The rice scam has been panned by many, including people inside the government, with similarly staggering numbers.

This OP begins with almost identical verbage as one from last year.

Commerce Ministry lambasted for corruption in rice purchases

BANGKOK, July 3, 2013

Corruption has penetrated every step of the governments rice purchase scheme as the Commerce Ministry has refused to disclose information on rice sales, according to a senior Finance Ministry official.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/650937-commerce-ministry-lambasted-for-corruption-in-rice-purchases/

[meatboy]

but the 60,000 dollar question is,who if anybody is to blame?

Easy. The Dive Instructors in Phuket. Must be them!

farangs are they.

[Tatsujin]

The TDRI has not made the claim. Rather, one of its "Fellows" has made the claim. Wouldn't it be nice if the chap made the data/information upon which he made his claim public? Niphon is an economist by trade and lasted 2 years as the dean of economics at Thammasat. Economists have a bad habit of making an assumption or assumptions and then going from there. Financial analysts and forensic accountants deal in reality, actual facts. Let him present his supporting documentation.

I'm not going to insult the fellow by mocking his education at Tennessee Middle State or the University of Hawaii, because these are not universities who have turned out nobel laureates in economics . However, I am sure that he was at least taught during his years at those universities that a claim must be backed up with actual reliable data, in order for it to be taken seriously. I find it amusing that Niphon had no problem hitching up to the ADB as a consultant when the opportunity arose, and the ADB reputation is well known, and yet he opines on "corruption" in a state sponsored subsidy program. I don't doubt for a minute that there was corruption or that money was stolen. It is a characteristic of Asian agricultural subsidy programs. However, I do question his estimate as he didn't reveal his assumptions, his methodology or the data pool.

Perhaps the people and agencies concerned might first open the books for all to see rather than asking for proof from others. But they won't, this whole election was pushed so they don't have to be honest and transparent as to exactly what's gone where. And they're rushing it yet again.

[darren84310]

And the Reds will just say it's all falsified evidence by the Yellows.

[Rich teacher]

Interesting that they offer no evidence. 'Corruption at all levels of the scheme'... So how much was taken at each level? Could we have the figures please? How much was at the government level?

Making unfounded generalised accusations like this he should be on the PRDC stage along with retarded frogs.

Edited April 2, 2014 by Rich teacher

[seajae]

"total damage from corruption amounted to over 450 billion baht, or equivalent to 60% of total sum used for the rice-pledging scheme."

I'm no fan of the scheme and am sure there was a lot of corruption, but surely not 60%. That's insane, no one could be stupid enough to think they could get away with that level of criminality.

for once we are in agreement

I hate all this "it's all there fault" ALL corruption on EITHER side should be exposed - I remember Abhisit was charged with rice corruption too - can't we take the politics OUT of corruption and condemn it ALL?

Yes convict all that are corrupt.. for now that is YL and those involved in this failed corrupt program. Yesterday there was a democrat senator that seemed to be corrupt and i was just as hard advocating there for jail time. I really hope they will get the guilty PTPers in this program and really punish them. (that its PTP is obvious as its a PTP program)

Once corruption is really attacked it will be less profitable for crooks to have a position in government and a lot of this fighting will end as there is less money involved. Convicting Taksin was a good thing but not harsh enough.. and they should have taken on others too. Examples must be made and then other convictions.

you forgot to mention Suthep and his land deals... you see the problem is that corruption here is not treated fairly and I do not for ONE second believe YL was corrupt - so your comment let's itself down very badly as POLITICALLY motivated

take the politics OUT of corruption - condemn them ALL

even I agree with basically what you are saying, corruption needs to be ended no matter who is doing it. YL though is in the thick of it, she is pm and head of the rice scheme, doesnt matter how stupid she is, she is the one responsible because she is the one in charge therefore the buck stops with her, just because she never sat in on anything doesnt come into it, she had a responsibility to do the right thing and she didnt. You must also look at what she is doing with her brother, issuing him a passport then refusing to answer to the courts as to why and not revoking it plus allowing a convicted felon to run her political party and tell them what to do, all of this adds up to corruption and again she is the one that is responsible as she is the leader, if she cannot accept the blame then she should not be the pm and their leader, she has no one to blame but herself.

[Nip]

but the 60,000 dollar question is,who if anybody is to blame?

Easy. The Dive Instructors in Phuket. Must be them!

farangs are they.

Worse! Mostly Scandinavians. Many rumored to be the estranged love children of wealthy Chalong police officers. Indeed these gentle folk are probably the most affable and least troublesome aliens on the island. On a serious note. I wonder does this dubious investigation of the Dive Shops in Phuket link in any way to Garry Halpin the shamed Tourist Police Volunteer and former Dive Shop owner? Now banged up in Phuket Provincial Jail?

Edited April 2, 2014 by Nip

[Spartakos]

I wonder if the money PTP stole exceeded their own estimations and they are wondering if they have gone too far. Or it is exactly the way they are planned it.

[clockman]

Evrything in Thailand, is just smoke and mirrors. They would have to build more jails. To contain the white collar criminals. But it will never happen.

[GeckosDiving]

What's mined boggling is the Red Shirt Flag Wavers still think everything's OK But, But, But With this thinking you can understand how the Camel Turd in Dubai can tell them anything and they will believe it Duh What's My Name Wheres My Lunch Box !!!

[CantSpell]

450 billion gone under Yingluck's watch. Believe what you want but that is the truth and she should be punished.

And with that kind of money, she wasn't able to hire a proper English teacher?

[hutchings1963]

And the silly farmers will still vote for her again,outside Bangkok no body looks at the news more interested in there stupid soaps.

[boomerangutang]

"It brought about damage which no one would lodge complaint because it engaged conflict of interest."

pretty soggy, Thai style excuse for not telling the truth. It's like the Thai who sees a woman being beat up by a guy, but doesn't say or do anything to intercede, because it would be a conflict of interest.

If you think this 450 billlion baht boondoggle is bad, (and it is!) - wait until the Shinawatres get their 2.2 trillion baht boondoggle going. Yes, I'm referring to the China/Bangkok speedo train which will primarily benefit Chinese commerce.

[aussieinthailand]

Nothing new. We have heard this for years from all corners of the country and the world and Yingluck hasn't tried to improve it. Why not? Because it is fairly obvious her family is making billions out of it. And then this sick lady keeps on using the farmers as a smoke screen.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Well you must have all the evidence to prove that, "her family is making billions out of it" because if you don't you could be exposed to the liable laws, I'm just saying

Please share this overwhelming evidence with us, I can't wait to see it, WOW you really must have some major connections to get this info huh,,,

So run along with your evidence and tell the TDRI and NACC you have everything they need to remove her and you'll be Sutheps hero. good luck with that

[dutchisaan]

Interesting that they offer no evidence. 'Corruption at all levels of the scheme'... So how much was taken at each level? Could we have the figures please? How much was at the government level?

Making unfounded generalised accusations like this he should be on the PRDC stage along with retarded frogs.

Did some people step on your feet? If somebody on this forum is making unfounded accusations it's you mister rich teacher. Why don't you change your username to red teacher, that is more fitting. Edited April 2, 2014 by dutchisaan