Jatuporn: UDD plans prolonged rally after Songkran

[Dogmatix]

The mass rally which is due to start Saturday and end on Monday is just a test of strength, said Jatuporn, adding “if this time around we can get 500,000 people, next time one million people will not be a problem”.

He noted that the mass rally was necessary to send a message to the Constitutional Court that the red-shirt followers would not let the court to seize power from the parliament, the government and the people.

The rally is just a test to see if they can afford a prolonged rally.

Thaksin is starting to worry about the cost.

Jatuporn makes a mud fence look intelligent. The Constitutional Court knows the red shirts are opposed to them all ready.

It is just a reminder for the red shirts what it they are supposed to think as they are not exactly a gifted bunch.

A look behind the scenes show's us a very frightened Thaksin. He is down to one leader and it is only a court jester.

There is a very interesting article in another paper today that includes the statement:

'According to Thaksin, the worst thing happening in the current struggle is that national police chief Adul Saengsingkaew has apparently defected to the opposing camp. The government is losing control over the police force which was once under its thumb'.

Anyone have more information on Adul's "defection"? Is it true?

I said this in a post about 4 weeks ago

Tharit is also very quiet recently, Charlerm and Surapong seem to be the only PTP mouth pieces still churning out garbage

Plus Tharits holiday cottage is also under investigation by the Senate and possibly more will follow

It's true Adul and Tharit who are both on the board of CAPO have been very quiet of late and some no name spokeswoman has replaced 2nd Lt Sunisa of "Thaksin Where are You?" and "Thjaksin Are you OK?" fame who is still shaken by the effects of her somewhat imprudent walkabout amongst the PDRC tents.

Tharit was able to produce title deeds to his Khao Yai resort (then so did Sarayud) but they need further investigation. The senators are also investigating how he managed to save up the money to purchase the property on his humble salary as a policeman and DSI officer. He will probably have to pretend he was moonlighting as a security consultant like the idiot at the Transport Ministry who was caught with hundreds of millions of baht under his mattress.

[Artisi]

From the turn-out so far today, looks like it will fairly cheap to maintain a prolonged rally - Bht 500 / day x a few hundred people - not even a dent in the fugitives petty cash tin.

[Dogmatix]

From the turn-out so far today, looks like it will fairly cheap to maintain a prolonged rally - Bht 500 / day x a few hundred people - not even a dent in the fugitives petty cash tin.

But the video clips suggest they are paying them Bt 2,000. Pheua Thai former MPs must be pissed off they were forced to increase the per diem.

[ramrod711]

After the rally from Saturday to Monday, Jatuporn said red-shirt supporters would be allowed to return home to celebrate the Songkran festival after which they would come back again, this time, for a prolonged rally.

sheep·herd·er

noun \ˈshēp-ˌhər-dər\

: a person who controls a flock of sheep : a person who herds sheep

Remember in 2010 there were rumors that organizers were holding the ID cards of many of the people that came from the north. After the army cleared them out, they found some of the cards at a booth/stall at the protest site. Perhaps allowed was exactly what he meant.

[zydeco]

Looks like the protest had more toilets than people.

[Oddjob]

From the turn-out so far today, looks like it will fairly cheap to maintain a prolonged rally - Bht 500 / day x a few hundred people - not even a dent in the fugitives petty cash tin.

But the video clips suggest they are paying them Bt 2,000. Pheua Thai former MPs must be pissed off they were forced to increase the per diem.

That exact clip if you look on youtube (search - red shirts paid) was posted 4 years ago.

My mother in law who lives in Chaeng Wattana area was approached by a red recruiter a few months back and offered a lump sum to gather a group together to participate in a protest rally. The amount discussed was B100,000 to get 50 people into a group including herself. ID cards had to be handed over and they would be kept by the red recruiter for the duration of that planned rally. The participants in the group had to report daily to the recruiter for the days the rally would be on. It was expected the rally would be 3 days and they were to be paid from the B100,000 my mother in law would receive. It was suggested to pay the grunts 300 to 500B a day and keep the rest for herself.

[Loles]

When I see this man's picture always have to think: is he dog or pig?

[tingtongteesood]

The mass rally which is due to start Saturday and end on Monday is just a test of strength, said Jatuporn, adding “if this time around we can get 500,000 people, next time one million people will not be a problem”.

Translation : My boss in Dubai wants to test the waters and if it seems to cause any kind of shift, combined with the threats and intimidation from his cronies, he will commit more money to trying to overthrow the checks and balances and install himself as supreme dictator.

[bigbamboo]

The mass rally which is due to start Saturday and end on Monday is just a test of strength, said Jatuporn, adding “if this time around we can get 500,000 people, next time one million people will not be a problem”.

Translation : My boss in Dubai wants to test the waters and if it seems to cause any kind of shift, combined with the threats and intimidation from his cronies, he will commit more money to trying to overthrow the checks and balances and install himself as supreme dictator.

His boss certainly wouldn't want another embarrassment like Tachilek when hardly anyone showed up and he had to play the assassination card again.

[DavidBonnie]

Geriatric Kid, well said, one of the few people who understand the real situation here. The Suthep lovers are just so much 'fog' that has to be ignored. Interestingly many of the people discussing the uneducated masses cannot spell properly. Impossible to take these people's opinions seriously. Most people who shout freedom, free will etc have a bias towards their masters; the great and powerful ammart of all countries and when a voice like GK's appears they are determined to shut it down. Perhaps Thaksin was corrupt? Was he more corrupt than any other politician before or since? it's not important because he did one thing no other politician has done and at least gave the poor and uneducated a ghost of a chance. That cannot be tolerated in the world plan that feeds on the cheap labour of others. You anti-Thaksin slaves go back to browsing, buying guns and pizza and growling about freedom now.

[scorecard]

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Geriatric Kid, well said, one of the few people who understand the real situation here. The Suthep lovers are just so much 'fog' that has to be ignored. Interestingly many of the people discussing the uneducated masses cannot spell properly. Impossible to take these people's opinions seriously. Most people who shout freedom, free will etc have a bias towards their masters; the great and powerful ammart of all countries and when a voice like GK's appears they are determined to shut it down. Perhaps Thaksin was corrupt? Was he more corrupt than any other politician before or since? it's not important because he did one thing no other politician has done and at least gave the poor and uneducated a ghost of a chance. That cannot be tolerated in the world plan that feeds on the cheap labour of others. You anti-Thaksin slaves go back to browsing, buying guns and pizza and growling about freedom now.

Ahh, a new holder of the perception management playbook.

It's all been said a million times before and refuted a million times before. Get a new play book with some new lines.

By the way, why / how have the one million poor unpaid farmers been silenced?

By the way, what has the paymaster or the fake pm ever said (in 10 plus years) in terms of policies, or actions, which would gain a much better quality of life for a very large % of ALL Thais through their own productivity.

By the way, I've asked G'kid the same questions many times. He never responds, I guess that means he has no answers.

By the way, what amart have tried to shut down g'kds comments?

By the way, why do you comment on ,,, plan that feeds cheap labour? Suthep and other members of his following have already commented that they would like to see, in the reforms, policies & action which would reduce the income gap. Abhisit and Korn talked at length on the same point.

By the way, what's your comment on yinglucks continuous claims that she is the protector of democracy when in truth she and her leeches regularly give dictator attitudes and comments?

Reform before elections.

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Geriatric Kid, well said, one of the few people who understand the real situation here. The Suthep lovers are just so much 'fog' that has to be ignored. Interestingly many of the people discussing the uneducated masses cannot spell properly. Impossible to take these people's opinions seriously. Most people who shout freedom, free will etc have a bias towards their masters; the great and powerful ammart of all countries and when a voice like GK's appears they are determined to shut it down. Perhaps Thaksin was corrupt? Was he more corrupt than any other politician before or since? it's not important because he did one thing no other politician has done and at least gave the poor and uneducated a ghost of a chance. That cannot be tolerated in the world plan that feeds on the cheap labour of others. You anti-Thaksin slaves go back to browsing, buying guns and pizza and growling about freedom now.

Ahh, a new holder of the perception management playbook.

It's all been said a million times before and refuted a million times before. Get a new play book with some new lines.

By the way, why / how have the one million poor unpaid farmers been silenced?

By the way, what has the paymaster or the fake pm ever said (in 10 plus years) in terms of policies, or actions, which would gain a much better quality of life for a very large % of ALL Thais through their own productivity.

By the way, I've asked G'kid the same questions many times. He never responds, I guess that means he has no answers.

Reform before elections.

Edited April 5, 2014 by scorecard

[zydeco]

Geriatric Kid, well said, one of the few people who understand the real situation here. The Suthep lovers are just so much 'fog' that has to be ignored. Interestingly many of the people discussing the uneducated masses cannot spell properly. Impossible to take these people's opinions seriously. Most people who shout freedom, free will etc have a bias towards their masters; the great and powerful ammart of all countries and when a voice like GK's appears they are determined to shut it down. Perhaps Thaksin was corrupt? Was he more corrupt than any other politician before or since? it's not important because he did one thing no other politician has done and at least gave the poor and uneducated a ghost of a chance. That cannot be tolerated in the world plan that feeds on the cheap labour of others. You anti-Thaksin slaves go back to browsing, buying guns and pizza and growling about freedom now.

5555555

[than]

Geriatric Kid, well said, one of the few people who understand the real situation here. The Suthep lovers are just so much 'fog' that has to be ignored. Interestingly many of the people discussing the uneducated masses cannot spell properly. Impossible to take these people's opinions seriously. Most people who shout freedom, free will etc have a bias towards their masters; the great and powerful ammart of all countries and when a voice like GK's appears they are determined to shut it down. Perhaps Thaksin was corrupt? Was he more corrupt than any other politician before or since? it's not important because he did one thing no other politician has done and at least gave the poor and uneducated a ghost of a chance. That cannot be tolerated in the world plan that feeds on the cheap labour of others. You anti-Thaksin slaves go back to browsing, buying guns and pizza and growling about freedom now.

Taksin was the most corrupt politician of all time in Thailand, he play with poverty of northern people to sit his power.

In 2010 he launch terrorist in Bangkok for provoke unrest and topple all institution for in own profit. In 2014 his reds follower launch different attack on his opponent, killing children and innocent people.

You can love Taksin his not my problem, If you think is a good man is your opinion, but the reality is so far of your wish.

A lot of issan people understand now that Taksin, YL and PT are cheating them, rice scheme is the bigger example, a big corruption where some actual minister are benefit.

Edited April 5, 2014 by than

[ratcatcher]

When I see this man's picture always have to think: is he dog or pig?

I don't like Jatuporn either, but do you really feel the need to lower yourself by comparing him to animals. I am sure he is loved by his mum.

Perhaps post a photo of yourself for comparison?

[ginjag]

When I see this man's picture always have to think: is he dog or pig?

I don't like Jatuporn either, but do you really feel the need to lower yourself by comparing him to animals. I am sure he is loved by his mum.

Perhaps post a photo of yourself for comparison?

Whatever name he has, how terrible a person he is, Mothers have to love their kids, even if in our minds they are brought up wrong. His job seems to be whipping up as much frenzy as possible on orders from Dubai, who now wants to destroy because he cannot get his way.

[dru2]

When I see this man's picture always have to think: is he dog or pig?

I don't like Jatuporn either, but do you really feel the need to lower yourself by comparing him to animals. I am sure he is loved by his mum.

Perhaps post a photo of yourself for comparison?

I understand from members of the Foreign Correspondents Club of Thailand who have interviewed her that she is actually chagrined and deeply ashamed by his behaviour, if not by his appearance.

[mrtoad]

Geriatric Kid, well said, one of the few people who understand the real situation here. The Suthep lovers are just so much 'fog' that has to be ignored. Interestingly many of the people discussing the uneducated masses cannot spell properly. Impossible to take these people's opinions seriously. Most people who shout freedom, free will etc have a bias towards their masters; the great and powerful ammart of all countries and when a voice like GK's appears they are determined to shut it down. Perhaps Thaksin was corrupt? Was he more corrupt than any other politician before or since? it's not important because he did one thing no other politician has done and at least gave the poor and uneducated a ghost of a chance. That cannot be tolerated in the world plan that feeds on the cheap labour of others. You anti-Thaksin slaves go back to browsing, buying guns and pizza and growling about freedom now.

5555555

Clearly he hasn't been here very long.

[rubl]

After the rally from Saturday to Monday, Jatuporn said red-shirt supporters would be allowed to return home to celebrate the Songkran festival after which they would come back again, this time, for a prolonged rally.

sheep·herd·er

noun \ˈshēp-ˌhər-dər\

: a person who controls a flock of sheep : a person who herds sheep

Indeed the 'allowed to return home' is interesting. I wonder how that was really said in Thai, but i'm afraid it might not be much better.

[JesseFrank]

After the rally from Saturday to Monday, Jatuporn said red-shirt supporters would be allowed to return home to celebrate the Songkran festival after which they would come back again, this time, for a prolonged rally.

sheep·herd·er

noun \ˈshēp-ˌhər-dər\

: a person who controls a flock of sheep : a person who herds sheep

Indeed the 'allowed to return home' is interesting. I wonder how that was really said in Thai, but i'm afraid it might not be much better.

But Jatuporn will probably save their ID card for them, just to make sure it doesn't get lost on all those travels.

[Crushdepth]

I thought it was traditional to hold the get drunk and burn Bangkok redshirt rally during Songkran, rather than after it.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Artisi]

Geriatric Kid, well said, one of the few people who understand the real situation here. The Suthep lovers are just so much 'fog' that has to be ignored. Interestingly many of the people discussing the uneducated masses cannot spell properly. Impossible to take these people's opinions seriously. Most people who shout freedom, free will etc have a bias towards their masters; the great and powerful ammart of all countries and when a voice like GK's appears they are determined to shut it down. Perhaps Thaksin was corrupt? Was he more corrupt than any other politician before or since? it's not important because he did one thing no other politician has done and at least gave the poor and uneducated a ghost of a chance. That cannot be tolerated in the world plan that feeds on the cheap labour of others. You anti-Thaksin slaves go back to browsing, buying guns and pizza and growling about freedom now.

Please expand on your theory as to why people who can not spell correctly should be excluded from having their opinions taken seriously.

Are you suggesting that we should only take notice of those who believe they can write, spell, and punctuate, and are full of self importance, such as yourself. However, it would seem that you need to attend to your "writing" before criticising others.

[nong38]

Great news for any tourists heading for Thailand! Great news for other members of Asean. This person is getting close to running the country, I would not want him running a noodle bar, he is loud mouth and its not connected to his brain too often, he like the sound of his own voice and if a big crowd turn up he will believe his own publicity. He is not alone in that of course, it runs through the Thai democratic system.

[geriatrickid]

Ahh, a new holder of the perception management playbook.

It's all been said a million times before and refuted a million times before. Get a new play book with some new lines.

By the way, why / how have the one million poor unpaid farmers been silenced?

By the way, what has the paymaster or the fake pm ever said (in 10 plus years) in terms of policies, or actions, which would gain a much better quality of life for a very large % of ALL Thais through their own productivity.

By the way, I've asked G'kid the same questions many times. He never responds, I guess that means he has no answers.

Reform before elections.

What question have you asked? You have 3 "by the ways" in your statement such that whatever it is you are asking, it is difficult to comprehend.

The forum has argued the programs of the former PM Thaksin ad nauseum. Do we really need a rehash? You and your friends refuse to acknowledge any of the positive programs or policies of the former Thaksin government. You will focus on the current handful of farmer suicides, but won't acknowledge that the largest decrease in farmer suicides occurred during the Thaksin period and that the current rate is consistent with that of the past 5 years. You raise the issue of corruption. No one has ever denied that there was corruption during the Thaksin period. However, you and your friends refuse to acknowledge that it was a continuation of a behaviour one saw in the previous dictatorships, and was repeated by the military junta and the Abhisit regime. It is a reflection of Thai social customs and behaviour. Under the Thaksin model, the people benefiting were more likely to be outside the junta and democrat party strongholds of the southern triangle of corruption and this has rubbed the former beneficiaries the wrong way.

You are all for the current judiciary and its rulings, but you refuse to even acknowledge that the people making the decisions were appointed by the former military dictatorship and/or Abhisit regime. The judiciary's independence is questionable. All of the above contribute to the presence of the UDD.

How can one have an intelligent discussion if you and others wish to assign two colours to everything; Black and white, when we all know that Thailand is distinguished by a broad range of shades of grey? You still don't understand that the UDD was an umbrella group that represented multiple views. There are factions in the UDD that loathe Thaksin and if the opportunity arose, would shove him under the proverbial bus. The relationship between the UDD and the PTP is one of political convenience, and is far less close than the relationship was between PAD and the democrat party at the height of PAD activity. The PDRC organizers and financial backers are for the most part lifted out of Suthep's former political organization back when he was the key organizer and fundraiser for the party. No one in the UDD has either that potent influence or power

Despite what you claim, the UDD operates in large part by consensus and reflects the social divisions that exist between the people of Surin, Ubon, Udon, Chiang Mai etc. You and others see the UDD as a homogeneous group, but it is not. Because of the UDD characteristics, the leader isn't so much as a leader as a consensus builder who must then shout above the regional voices to let everyone know where they are going.

You fall back on the insulting of Jatuporn because it is the easiest thing to do. Never under estimate the man as he is street smart, and has a good sense of what's in the minds and hearts of the UDD support base. The same applies to Suthep, These are guys who have built support and organizations from the ground up. Jatuporn is far more in tune with the people than is Thaksin. The same for Suthep in comparison to Abhisit. Yet both are used by the political parties to which they are affiliated. Jatuporn scares and intimidates many TVFers. They have never met him. Jatuporn is quick with a warm smile and a handshake like a vice grip. Unlike many Thais, he's mastered the art of looking a foreigner in the eye and talking in manner that is to the point, and that conveys determination. Perhaps some TVFers don't like him because he's not willing to play the role of the effeminate subservient bar boy or service trade worker forced to kiss people's buttocks in order to keep a minimum wage job.

You and others in TVF make the assumption of many foreigners that Thailand's political "leaders" are omnipotent. They are not. When the time or circumstances are right, Thaksin will be abandoned by his people. He is being used, just as Jatuporn and the UDD are being used, just as the PDRC is being used and just as Abhisit's continued presence is tolerated by the backroom of the party. This is why Thaksin relies so heavily on family. In Thailand, loyalties change on a baht, and only a family member can bring "loyalty", which even then can waver. This is how it works in Asia, and how it has always worked. Power relies on family, then village connection & long time friendships s and their relatives. It is why the PTP has such staying power, and why Suthep has it too. One could argue that the Suthep power base structure shares many of the same characteristics of the Thaksin powerbase structure. The Abhisit Bangkok urban power model does not. It relies on force by the military and by appointments of backers and beneficiaries into key societal managerial roles like the judiciary. The future of Thailand is more of Suthep and Thaksin style "leaders" until such time as the quasi feudal style of life changes.

[scorecard]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Ahh, a new holder of the perception management playbook.

It's all been said a million times before and refuted a million times before. Get a new play book with some new lines.

By the way, why / how have the one million poor unpaid farmers been silenced?

By the way, what has the paymaster or the fake pm ever said (in 10 plus years) in terms of policies, or actions, which would gain a much better quality of life for a very large % of ALL Thais through their own productivity.

By the way, I've asked G'kid the same questions many times. He never responds, I guess that means he has no answers.

Reform before elections.

What question have you asked? You have 3 "by the ways" in your statement such that whatever it is you are asking, it is difficult to comprehend.

The forum has argued the programs of the former PM Thaksin ad nauseum. Do we really need a rehash? You and your friends refuse to acknowledge any of the positive programs or policies of the former Thaksin government. You will focus on the current handful of farmer suicides, but won't acknowledge that the largest decrease in farmer suicides occurred during the Thaksin period and that the current rate is consistent with that of the past 5 years. You raise the issue of corruption. No one has ever denied that there was corruption during the Thaksin period. However, you and your friends refuse to acknowledge that it was a continuation of a behaviour one saw in the previous dictatorships, and was repeated by the military junta and the Abhisit regime. It is a reflection of Thai social customs and behaviour. Under the Thaksin model, the people benefiting were more likely to be outside the junta and democrat party strongholds of the southern triangle of corruption and this has rubbed the former beneficiaries the wrong way.

You are all for the current judiciary and its rulings, but you refuse to even acknowledge that the people making the decisions were appointed by the former military dictatorship and/or Abhisit regime. The judiciary's independence is questionable. All of the above contribute to the presence of the UDD.

How can one have an intelligent discussion if you and others wish to assign two colours to everything; Black and white, when we all know that Thailand is distinguished by a broad range of shades of grey? You still don't understand that the UDD was an umbrella group that represented multiple views. There are factions in the UDD that loathe Thaksin and if the opportunity arose, would shove him under the proverbial bus. The relationship between the UDD and the PTP is one of political convenience, and is far less close than the relationship was between PAD and the democrat party at the height of PAD activity. The PDRC organizers and financial backers are for the most part lifted out of Suthep's former political organization back when he was the key organizer and fundraiser for the party. No one in the UDD has either that potent influence or power

Despite what you claim, the UDD operates in large part by consensus and reflects the social divisions that exist between the people of Surin, Ubon, Udon, Chiang Mai etc. You and others see the UDD as a homogeneous group, but it is not. Because of the UDD characteristics, the leader isn't so much as a leader as a consensus builder who must then shout above the regional voices to let everyone know where they are going.

You fall back on the insulting of Jatuporn because it is the easiest thing to do. Never under estimate the man as he is street smart, and has a good sense of what's in the minds and hearts of the UDD support base. The same applies to Suthep, These are guys who have built support and organizations from the ground up. Jatuporn is far more in tune with the people than is Thaksin. The same for Suthep in comparison to Abhisit. Yet both are used by the political parties to which they are affiliated. Jatuporn scares and intimidates many TVFers. They have never met him. Jatuporn is quick with a warm smile and a handshake like a vice grip. Unlike many Thais, he's mastered the art of looking a foreigner in the eye and talking in manner that is to the point, and that conveys determination. Perhaps some TVFers don't like him because he's not willing to play the role of the effeminate subservient bar boy or service trade worker forced to kiss people's buttocks in order to keep a minimum wage job.

You and others in TVF make the assumption of many foreigners that Thailand's political "leaders" are omnipotent. They are not. When the time or circumstances are right, Thaksin will be abandoned by his people. He is being used, just as Jatuporn and the UDD are being used, just as the PDRC is being used and just as Abhisit's continued presence is tolerated by the backroom of the party. This is why Thaksin relies so heavily on family. In Thailand, loyalties change on a baht, and only a family member can bring "loyalty", which even then can waver. This is how it works in Asia, and how it has always worked. Power relies on family, then village connection & long time friendships s and their relatives. It is why the PTP has such staying power, and why Suthep has it too. One could argue that the Suthep power base structure shares many of the same characteristics of the Thaksin powerbase structure. The Abhisit Bangkok urban power model does not. It relies on force by the military and by appointments of backers and beneficiaries into key societal managerial roles like the judiciary. The future of Thailand is more of Suthep and Thaksin style "leaders" until such time as the quasi feudal style of life changes.

"The relationship between the UDD and the PTP is one of political convenience..."

So please share:

What's convenient / good for the UDD from their relationship with the PTP, and

Please share what's convenient / good for PTP from their relationship with UDD.

"You raise the issue of corruption. No one has ever denied that there was corruption during the Thaksin period. However, you and your friends refuse to acknowledge that it was a continuation of a behaviour one saw in the previous dictatorships, and was repeated by the military junta and the Abhisit regime. It is a reflection of Thai social customs and behaviour. "

Really, so you think the beyond massive corruption in the rice scam is just 'normal'?

[zydeco]

Ahh, a new holder of the perception management playbook.

It's all been said a million times before and refuted a million times before. Get a new play book with some new lines.

By the way, why / how have the one million poor unpaid farmers been silenced?

By the way, what has the paymaster or the fake pm ever said (in 10 plus years) in terms of policies, or actions, which would gain a much better quality of life for a very large % of ALL Thais through their own productivity.

By the way, I've asked G'kid the same questions many times. He never responds, I guess that means he has no answers.

Reform before elections.

What question have you asked? You have 3 "by the ways" in your statement such that whatever it is you are asking, it is difficult to comprehend.

The forum has argued the programs of the former PM Thaksin ad nauseum. Do we really need a rehash? You and your friends refuse to acknowledge any of the positive programs or policies of the former Thaksin government. You will focus on the current handful of farmer suicides, but won't acknowledge that the largest decrease in farmer suicides occurred during the Thaksin period and that the current rate is consistent with that of the past 5 years. You raise the issue of corruption. No one has ever denied that there was corruption during the Thaksin period. However, you and your friends refuse to acknowledge that it was a continuation of a behaviour one saw in the previous dictatorships, and was repeated by the military junta and the Abhisit regime. It is a reflection of Thai social customs and behaviour. Under the Thaksin model, the people benefiting were more likely to be outside the junta and democrat party strongholds of the southern triangle of corruption and this has rubbed the former beneficiaries the wrong way.

You are all for the current judiciary and its rulings, but you refuse to even acknowledge that the people making the decisions were appointed by the former military dictatorship and/or Abhisit regime. The judiciary's independence is questionable. All of the above contribute to the presence of the UDD.

How can one have an intelligent discussion if you and others wish to assign two colours to everything; Black and white, when we all know that Thailand is distinguished by a broad range of shades of grey? You still don't understand that the UDD was an umbrella group that represented multiple views. There are factions in the UDD that loathe Thaksin and if the opportunity arose, would shove him under the proverbial bus. The relationship between the UDD and the PTP is one of political convenience, and is far less close than the relationship was between PAD and the democrat party at the height of PAD activity. The PDRC organizers and financial backers are for the most part lifted out of Suthep's former political organization back when he was the key organizer and fundraiser for the party. No one in the UDD has either that potent influence or power

Despite what you claim, the UDD operates in large part by consensus and reflects the social divisions that exist between the people of Surin, Ubon, Udon, Chiang Mai etc. You and others see the UDD as a homogeneous group, but it is not. Because of the UDD characteristics, the leader isn't so much as a leader as a consensus builder who must then shout above the regional voices to let everyone know where they are going.

You fall back on the insulting of Jatuporn because it is the easiest thing to do. Never under estimate the man as he is street smart, and has a good sense of what's in the minds and hearts of the UDD support base. The same applies to Suthep, These are guys who have built support and organizations from the ground up. Jatuporn is far more in tune with the people than is Thaksin. The same for Suthep in comparison to Abhisit. Yet both are used by the political parties to which they are affiliated. Jatuporn scares and intimidates many TVFers. They have never met him. Jatuporn is quick with a warm smile and a handshake like a vice grip. Unlike many Thais, he's mastered the art of looking a foreigner in the eye and talking in manner that is to the point, and that conveys determination. Perhaps some TVFers don't like him because he's not willing to play the role of the effeminate subservient bar boy or service trade worker forced to kiss people's buttocks in order to keep a minimum wage job.

You and others in TVF make the assumption of many foreigners that Thailand's political "leaders" are omnipotent. They are not. When the time or circumstances are right, Thaksin will be abandoned by his people. He is being used, just as Jatuporn and the UDD are being used, just as the PDRC is being used and just as Abhisit's continued presence is tolerated by the backroom of the party. This is why Thaksin relies so heavily on family. In Thailand, loyalties change on a baht, and only a family member can bring "loyalty", which even then can waver. This is how it works in Asia, and how it has always worked. Power relies on family, then village connection & long time friendships s and their relatives. It is why the PTP has such staying power, and why Suthep has it too. One could argue that the Suthep power base structure shares many of the same characteristics of the Thaksin powerbase structure. The Abhisit Bangkok urban power model does not. It relies on force by the military and by appointments of backers and beneficiaries into key societal managerial roles like the judiciary. The future of Thailand is more of Suthep and Thaksin style "leaders" until such time as the quasi feudal style of life changes.

GK appears to be someone desperate to be acknowledged as an expert, a poor man's Graham Greene of Thailand. Someone jaded and cynical and so much above the rest of the mere mortals who post on TV. And, here, he goes at it with Jatuporn. The UDD leader, you must understand, according to GK, is a superior leader of subtle wit and forthright honesty, which all the rest of us--not being the all-knowing plutocrat that only one truly wise one on this forum is--on TV are simply unable to understand, especially as we don't enjoy GK's self-described "elite connections" and insider knowledge. Yes, this Jatuporn who looks "a foreigner in the eye," gives a "warm smile," and "conveys determination." Why, heck, sort of sounds like Bill Clinton or Ronald Reagan, doesn't he? A true leader of the people, a man of infinite dimensions that all the silly farangs (we poor deluded fools) can never understand, because we're always expecting to deal with some "effeminate subservient bar boy." What a bunch of smarmy mush.

[geriatrickid]

"The relationship between the UDD and the PTP is one of political convenience..."

So please share:

What's convenient / good for the UDD from their relationship with the PTP, and

Please share what's convenient / good for PTP from their relationship with UDD.

"You raise the issue of corruption. No one has ever denied that there was corruption during the Thaksin period. However, you and your friends refuse to acknowledge that it was a continuation of a behaviour one saw in the previous dictatorships, and was repeated by the military junta and the Abhisit regime. It is a reflection of Thai social customs and behaviour. "

Really, so you think the beyond massive corruption in the rice scam is just 'normal'?

You ask a question in respect to the UDD-PTP relationship that you already know the answer to. The motive for the PTP is to attract a voting demographic. The UDD supports the PTP because the PTP is most likely to enact policies and programs that will benefit its members. Is it really any different than the farmers in France voting for the Socialists? Is it any different than the tea party in the USA voting for candidates who agree with its agenda, or the US union movement supporting the Democrats? Is it any different than trade lobbying groups supporting the Conservatives in the UK?

Sadly, the corruption that is most likely associated with the rice pledging program is "normal". Thailand is characterized by corruption. Don't act surprised, and it wasn't invented by Thaksin. When former finance minister Korn had his multibillion baht economyfunding, similar allegations were made about the evaporation of funds.

Agriculture subsidy programs are notorious for waste, for leakage and misuse. It's wrong, but that's what large agriculture subsidy programs bring. Funny, how you don't have hysterical shrieking fits in respect to the indirect poultry and fish subsidies and indirect funding of some of the largest commercial processors in Thailand. Those programs have been in place for some time.

[geriatrickid]

GK appears to be someone desperate to be acknowledged as an expert, a poor man's Graham Greene of Thailand. Someone jaded and cynical and so much above the rest of the mere mortals who post on TV. And, here, he goes at it with Jatuporn. The UDD leader, you must understand, according to GK, is a superior leader of subtle wit and forthright honesty, which all the rest of us--not being the all-knowing plutocrat that only one truly wise one on this forum is--on TV are simply unable to understand, especially as we don't enjoy GK's self-described "elite connections" and insider knowledge. Yes, this Jatuporn who looks "a foreigner in the eye," gives a "warm smile," and "conveys determination." Why, heck, sort of sounds like Bill Clinton or Ronald Reagan, doesn't he? A true leader of the people, a man of infinite dimensions that all the silly farangs (we poor deluded fools) can never understand, because we're always expecting to deal with some "effeminate subservient bar boy." What a bunch of smarmy mush.

Instead of criticizing me why don't you counter the arguments I offered? If you feel inadequate because of your limited life experiences, and education, well, that's your cross to bear. Don't take it out on me because you are a marginalized foreigner in Thailand, unable to control his own destiny. Have you met Jatuporn? Have you spoken with him? How can you make statements about his character when all that you know is gleaned from 2 English language publications? If you are intimidated by Jatuporn, or other Thai males who have a sense of purpose and self discipline, that's your problem. If circumstances were different, and he was in the Democrat party, you'd be singing his praises as a man's man, a visionary with the strength and determination to "save" Thailand. I see him for what he is, and he shares some personality traits with the executives of my own past employers. They were celebrated as great leaders. I didn't agree, but I was entitled to my opinion.

I have never claimed "elite connections". However, anyone who is gainfully employed in a larger business, or who has some skills of value, or who has friends or relatives in Thailand, is at some point going to meet the Thai "elites". They are everywhere. Sometimes they rear end you when they are drunk and you are stopped at a traffic light. Other times, one of their kids is puking off the balcony splattering bystanders below (yes, it happened in Patong). Sometimes you meet them at work or at a social function. Not everyone hangs out in a beer bar, or is a retiree cut off from daily life. Thailand has social functions of varying importance every week, whether they are trade banquets, or celebrations or charitable fundraisers. I suggest you get invited to a few of them and meet the people and listen. Not all of the "elites" are selfish and cruel Bangkok dwellers, and not all of the UDD leaders are violent commies.

Edited April 5, 2014 by geriatrickid

[Tokay]

I'm not calling him a monkey, so no one get their panties in a bunch, but his face always makes me think of this toy I had when I was a child:

[northernjohn]

"The relationship between the UDD and the PTP is one of political convenience..."

So please share:

What's convenient / good for the UDD from their relationship with the PTP, and

Please share what's convenient / good for PTP from their relationship with UDD.

"You raise the issue of corruption. No one has ever denied that there was corruption during the Thaksin period. However, you and your friends refuse to acknowledge that it was a continuation of a behaviour one saw in the previous dictatorships, and was repeated by the military junta and the Abhisit regime. It is a reflection of Thai social customs and behaviour. "

Really, so you think the beyond massive corruption in the rice scam is just 'normal'?

You ask a question in respect to the UDD-PTP relationship that you already know the answer to. The motive for the PTP is to attract a voting demographic. The UDD supports the PTP because the PTP is most likely to enact policies and programs that will benefit its members. Is it really any different than the farmers in France voting for the Socialists? Is it any different than the tea party in the USA voting for candidates who agree with its agenda, or the US union movement supporting the Democrats? Is it any different than trade lobbying groups supporting the Conservatives in the UK?

Sadly, the corruption that is most likely associated with the rice pledging program is "normal". Thailand is characterized by corruption. Don't act surprised, and it wasn't invented by Thaksin. When former finance minister Korn had his multibillion baht economyfunding, similar allegations were made about the evaporation of funds.

Agriculture subsidy programs are notorious for waste, for leakage and misuse. It's wrong, but that's what large agriculture subsidy programs bring. Funny, how you don't have hysterical shrieking fits in respect to the indirect poultry and fish subsidies and indirect funding of some of the largest commercial processors in Thailand. Those programs have been in place for some time.

Do they not get their money unlike the farmers and new car buyers who get stiffed?

[Thaddeus]

You ask a question in respect to the UDD-PTP relationship that you already know the answer to.

Booked a table for twelve, four showed up, and then two left out of embarrassment.

I remember a few scant years ago you were a staunch supporter of the rice scheme, you stated openly how it would work, and benefit all of the Thai people.

You were wrong.

Defend anything PTP say now and I will hold it in the same regard, scripted nonsense.

Edited April 5, 2014 by Thaddeus