PM will be given fair chance: NACC

[Prbkk]

This is a complete farce. One can accept the idea that rice pledging was not great policy, fine. Little different, in policy terms from schemes operating in the USA, Japan, Taiwan, Korea and many other countries. When a policy becomes unpopular, it is reasoanble for the govt responsible for it to be voted out of office. That can still happen here. But that isn't the agenda: the old guard want back in and will do ANYTHING to make that happen. Their behaviour is scandalous

The investigation isn't about whether the policy was good or not. It's related to the corruption of the policy.

..many people would disagree. It's a genuine "dancing with the devil", full-on witch hunt

[SICHONSTEVE]

This is a complete farce. One can accept the idea that rice pledging was not great policy, fine. Little different, in policy terms from schemes operating in the USA, Japan, Taiwan, Korea and many other countries. When a policy becomes unpopular, it is reasoanble for the govt responsible for it to be voted out of office. That can still happen here. But that isn't the agenda: the old guard want back in and will do ANYTHING to make that happen. Their behaviour is scandalous

The investigation isn't about whether the policy was good or not. It's related to the corruption of the policy.

..many people would disagree. It's a genuine "dancing with the devil", full-on witch hunt

Yeh, right!!!!

Edited April 6, 2014 by SICHONSTEVE

[Thai at Heart]

This is a complete farce. One can accept the idea that rice pledging was not great policy, fine. Little different, in policy terms from schemes operating in the USA, Japan, Taiwan, Korea and many other countries. When a policy becomes unpopular, it is reasoanble for the govt responsible for it to be voted out of office. That can still happen here. But that isn't the agenda: the old guard want back in and will do ANYTHING to make that happen. Their behaviour is scandalous

The investigation isn't about whether the policy was good or not. It's related to the corruption of the policy.

..many people would disagree. It's a genuine "dancing with the devil", full-on witch hunt

Yeh, right!!!!

That is exactly what will be the story that will be spun loud and long by the ptp propaganda crew.

They need to prove this issue well and not be seen to be chasing the verdict.

[SICHONSTEVE]

I see that you admit that the PTP propaganda crew will be spinning lies (they are masters at it) - as to chasing the verdict, there won't be any need for that as it has been displayed beautifully and presented to them on a plate!!!

It is an open and shut case that has no possible defence!!

[Thai at Heart]

I see that you admit that the PTP propaganda crew will be spinning lies (they are masters at it) - as to chasing the verdict, there won't be any need for that as it has been displayed beautifully and presented to them on a plate!!!

It is an open and shut case that has no possible defence!!

It is a view of the situation. Unless you counter the accusation that its a fix up , by gathering strong evidence, of which I haven't seen any categorical truth, this is what will be said.

They can't find one person in the whole country to say, "this buyer received an extraordinary payment of x or y". The figures are in the billions.

Don't tell me they can't find one? They can't provably get any bank records or statements ? Without this, it appears a witch hunt. Without an independent count on what is in the warehouse, all the rest is semantics.

Having every newspaper printing stories that " rice scheme full of corruption' with a quote "we know it is corrupt", deserves a little investigation before someone gets removed from being a prime minister don't you think.

There is no trial by jury in Thailand, now they have trial by title tattle. Bring one company or person who profited illegally from this system and then throw the book at her.

Displayed and presented where? Where is the evidence of this open and shut case? I haven't read it.

Edited April 6, 2014 by Thai at Heart

[SICHONSTEVE]

I see that you admit that the PTP propaganda crew will be spinning lies (they are masters at it) - as to chasing the verdict, there won't be any need for that as it has been displayed beautifully and presented to them on a plate!!!

It is an open and shut case that has no possible defence!!

It is a view of the situation. Unless you counter the accusation that its a fix up , by gathering strong evidence, of which I haven't seen any categorical truth, this is what will be said.

They can't find one person in the whole country to say, "this buyer received an extraordinary payment of x or y". The figures are in the billions.

Don't tell me they can't find one? They can't provably get any bank records or statements ? Without this, it appears a witch hunt. Without an independent count on what is in the warehouse, all the rest is semantics.

Having every newspaper printing stories that " rice scheme full of corruption' with a quote "we know it is corrupt", deserves a little investigation before someone gets removed from being a prime minister don't you think.

There is no trial by jury in Thailand, now they have trial by title tattle. Bring one company or person who profited illegally from this system and then throw the book at her.

Displayed and presented where? Where is the evidence of this open and shut case? I haven't read it.

Approximately 2 million tons of rice is accountable for and 400 - 450 billion baht has been lost in just over 3 years - Yingluck is the head of the scheme (another of Thaksin's lunatic ideas). She was warned to terminate it and Thaksin said no it will affect our popularity!!!

She is being investigated for being negligent and not in terms of having to identify the source of the corruption as you seem obsessed about - I think that this is evidence enough to apportion blame, don't you???

[scorecard]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

I see that you admit that the PTP propaganda crew will be spinning lies (they are masters at it) - as to chasing the verdict, there won't be any need for that as it has been displayed beautifully and presented to them on a plate!!!
It is an open and shut case that has no possible defence!!

It is a view of the situation. Unless you counter the accusation that its a fix up , by gathering strong evidence, of which I haven't seen any categorical truth, this is what will be said.

They can't find one person in the whole country to say, "this buyer received an extraordinary payment of x or y". The figures are in the billions.

Don't tell me they can't find one? They can't provably get any bank records or statements ? Without this, it appears a witch hunt. Without an independent count on what is in the warehouse, all the rest is semantics.

Having every newspaper printing stories that " rice scheme full of corruption' with a quote "we know it is corrupt", deserves a little investigation before someone gets removed from being a prime minister don't you think.

There is no trial by jury in Thailand, now they have trial by title tattle. Bring one company or person who profited illegally from this system and then throw the book at her.

Displayed and presented where? Where is the evidence of this open and shut case? I haven't read it.

The fake pm isn't (yet?) charged with corruption, she being investigated for dereliction of duty.

I somehow doubt the NACC would be so confident, or even have proceeded this far, if they had zero or flimsy evidence.

[Trembly]

alleged failure to stop losses

Huh? Its a subsidy program. Of course it is going to lose money.

I think they're referring to the losses to corruption.

Well that is exactly what it doesn't say. So well just have to hope that something rather vital got lost in translation.

I think the clue is in the name of the NACC.

[Dogmatix]

A little 'food for thought' for both sides:

'When Should Government Officials Be Criminally Liable for Failure to Prevent Corruption?Reflections on Thailand, and Beyond'

http://globalanticorruptionblog.com/2014/03/11/when-should-government-officials-be-criminally-liable-for-failure-to-prevent-corruption-reflections-on-thailand-and-beyond/

The author of that blog doesn't seem to understand three important points:

1) The charges relate not only to the egregious corruption found in the scheme (e.g. fake rice sales to China), but also to losses caused to the state in the sale of state assets. The whole scheme was based on speculation by Thaksin that by hoarding Thailand's rice production and forming a rice cartel with neighbouring countries,. he would be able to create a spike in the rice price (and widespread starvation in African countries), so that the government would book huge profits from the rice mountain and that, his family and political cronies would, of course, be the prime beneficiaries. Thus, quite apart from the corruption, YL had the obligation to halt the scheme when it was obvious that the speculative theory was actually an idiotic miscalculation by her brother and that Thailand was going to have sell a lot of rice at a huge loss. She could have, at least, halted the program and avoided buying any more rice that would have to be later sold at a loss.

2) The NACC is not a court of law. YL will have the opportunity to use many of the points he proposes in her defence when she appears at her criminal trial in the Supreme Court for Political Office Holders.

3) The 'Bill Gates Defence' he talks of may be possible for NGOs who determine that corruption in the implementation of their charitable programs is acceptable, as long as they are happy with the results net of corruption. However, it is not an acceptable defence for a politician who may face criminal prosecution to claim that they were happy with an acceptable level of corruption and losses, which in this case has already hit 3% of GDP and is still rising. There is no way in Thai law for government officials to claim any justification for accepting corruption of any size. Therefore the blogger's main argument is ludicrous.

So dogmatrix you think "the blogger's main argument is ludicrous."

And the blogger is Mathew Stephenson

Professor of Law, Harvard Law School you are hilarious!

I may well be hilarious but do you seriously think that arguing in a Thai court of law that you thought just a little bit of corruption was OK as long as the results were still acceptable? Anyway in what sense are the results acceptable when the government defaulted on payments equivalent to 10% of the entire agricultural production for 2013, excluding fisheries? If Stephenson is a professor of law at Harvard and believes such arguments might be successful in a Thai court, perhaps he should offer his services to the Shin clan and phone in to red shirt rallies with Robert Amsterdam.

Edited April 6, 2014 by Dogmatix

[Halion]

Yinglucks tactics are very clearly delay and dilute as much as possible. Bring out the faithful blame hounds and spread the shit around on the hope that she can come out smelling like a rose.

[bigbamboo]

This is a complete farce. One can accept the idea that rice pledging was not great policy, fine. Little different, in policy terms from schemes operating in the USA, Japan, Taiwan, Korea and many other countries. When a policy becomes unpopular, it is reasoanble for the govt responsible for it to be voted out of office. That can still happen here. But that isn't the agenda: the old guard want back in and will do ANYTHING to make that happen. Their behaviour is scandalous

The investigation isn't about whether the policy was good or not. It's related to the corruption of the policy.

..many people would disagree. It's a genuine "dancing with the devil", full-on witch hunt

If that were true Tarit would be conducting it.

[rametindallas]

To Rametindallas,

It was the handbag comment, it just lowered the tone to the usual level.

Noted. And you are correct. I should have said she was told not to bother involving herself in what was really going on.

[rametindallas]

If the NACC asks these three questions, it is an open and shut case and there is no possible or even theoretical defense.:

1. As Prime Minister, was it your responsibility to appoint a serious person to chair the Rice Support Program? (yes)

2. As Prime Minister, did you appoint yourself to the position of chair of the Rice Support Program? (yes)

3. Did you, personally, chair any meetings of the Rice Support Program? (no)

Guilty of negligence of duty; we will be recommending a formal indictment to the court and impeachment by the Senate.

No other questions need be asked and there is no defense.

Has anyone been jailed for corruption pertaining to the rice policy yet? If not, what corruption would you like her to be convicted of.

I am not defending her of anything, but the system can't convict her on the back of newspaper headlines. Its a little like the woman at the news of the world.

They can't convict her of managing illegal phone hacking until they convict an underling of committing phone hacking.

The fact that not even one person has been jailed in the face of huge evidence of corruption going on with the Program speaks volumes to Yingluck and her government's attempt and curbing corruption. In fact, when a civil servant in the Ministry of Commerce bought evidence directly to the Senate, via her testimony, the government condemned her for speaking out, had her transferred and had to reinstate her because the transfer was not allowed a' la Thawit. This government has given fair warning to all whistle-blowers who would expose their corruption. Last year there was a photo op with Yingluck and her cabinet and big banners proclaiming they were going to root out corruption in the Rice Support Program. As you say, who has gone to jail? The government has admitted there is corruption in the program. Every NGO and civic organization has spoken out against how the government arraigned the program to be susceptible to corruption. How can the chairperson of the Rice Support Program tackle corruption when she never attended a single meeting of the committee. Negligence the same as the Customs officer who looks the other way when smuggled high-end cars are illegally brought into the country. Negligence like the patrolman who sleeps his shift away instead of watching over the citizen of his beat. Negligence like a PM who travels more air miles than any other world leader including Obama. Give it up. I know she is likable. I think she is a nice person thrust into an untenable position and her brother is using her the same way he used the rice farmers and everyone else who might serve HIS needs. You're defending the puppet of a narcissist who can't stop himself on his destructive path.

I am trying to help people understand that by going after her like this, she will be turned into a.martyr and her supporters will claim that the process is corrupt.

I want the country to eventually reach a peaceful stable conclusion. A judgement like this won't achieve it. They need more evidence than people "saying", there is a lot of corruption in the system.

Go and investigate people who own warehouses up country and see how many bought supercars in the last few years. They know what has gone on.

I know what you are saying but, on this forum, we don't have to be pragmatic. We can take the moral high-ground; especially if it doesn't cost us financially. Ms Yingluck was doing just fine as a human being and mom before Dr. Thaksin plucked her from relative obscurity and put her in the center of his massively corrupt mafia AKA PTP. She will be better off being a martyr (and a mom), and so will Thailand, than to continue the farce of her actually being the PM and responsible for anything. Thaksin had his day and his time at the public trough. Time for others to have a turn. Corruption is not going to end in Thailand but Thaksin wanted a monopoly on it. I'm against that; not that it matters to anyone but a few on this forum.

I disagree. Unless the accusation is clearly proven, it will simply throw more fuel on the fire to say that the system is unfairly jigged against the PTP/ TRT .

The issue will be made bigger. Expediency will not solve the problem.

Your position on this is very defensible and you do a very good job defending it. I don't 100% disagree and you make some good points. Good post.

[rametindallas]

I see that you admit that the PTP propaganda crew will be spinning lies (they are masters at it) - as to chasing the verdict, there won't be any need for that as it has been displayed beautifully and presented to them on a plate!!!

It is an open and shut case that has no possible defence!!

It is a view of the situation. Unless you counter the accusation that its a fix up , by gathering strong evidence, of which I haven't seen any categorical truth, this is what will be said.

They can't find one person in the whole country to say, "this buyer received an extraordinary payment of x or y". The figures are in the billions.

Don't tell me they can't find one? They can't provably get any bank records or statements ? Without this, it appears a witch hunt. Without an independent count on what is in the warehouse, all the rest is semantics.

Having every newspaper printing stories that " rice scheme full of corruption' with a quote "we know it is corrupt", deserves a little investigation before someone gets removed from being a prime minister don't you think.

There is no trial by jury in Thailand, now they have trial by title tattle. Bring one company or person who profited illegally from this system and then throw the book at her.

Displayed and presented where? Where is the evidence of this open and shut case? I haven't read it.

Non of us know what evidence the NACC will forward to the court/Senate IF they decide prosecution is in order. Only when a court case/ Senate impeachment hearing, unfolds will any evidence be revealed to the public. By that time, Ms Yingluck will be out of office and it will not matter what the evidence is or how much there is, to her supporters who will feel justice has been subverted to remove her from office. The newspapers have preemptively convicted her and her supporters have trumpeted her innocence and the lack of evidence. Both are wrong. Right now, people only have 'feelings' about what is provable but only time will tell what the facts/evidence is.

[Baerboxer]

Oh no she won't and how do I know, because PTP and the reds are lining up to tell me.

Listen to Jatuporn on the BBC today saying the public are ready to fight because the Bangkok elite are cheating them.

Simple question K. Jatuporn, what are you now ? You've done quite well out of things thanks to Mr. T and sit at the top table but of course you are not one of the elite and can relax knowing your sheep will believe everything you say.

The reason why the PM's older brother can travel the World at will is because his conviction following the coup was seen around the globe as being political motivated and as such scant notice is paid to it. NACC are heading down the same path with his sister. The shortcomings in NACC's procedures have been exposed - they investigate (the investigator is on record as being an oponent of Thaksin - so is not going to be impartial), they decide what witnesses may be called by the accused, they determine the case and it is they that set the penalty. That is not how a fair judicial system works.

Nonsense. The reason the criminal fugitive and founder of PTP can travel the world is because the Thai governments have chosen not to pursue extradition attempts.

Most countries couldn't give a fig. He gets treated like a VIP because he's a billionaire with a very good PR and lobbying team.

No legal system allows infinite or irrelevant witnesses, nor does it allow those who got be bothered to attend the initial hearings to keep on asking for more time. However, the NACC are not a court nor are its officers judges. This is an investigation.

Thaksin tried to ignore and ride rough shod over laws before. Now he makes his little sister do the same. The NACC do not set the penalty.

There is nothing fair or just in the way PTP operate - simply a feudal family believing they are above the law and regarding the country as their own assets.

Who would you suggest investigate this - Tarit? I could write the outcome in 30 seconds.

[Thai at Heart]

I see that you admit that the PTP propaganda crew will be spinning lies (they are masters at it) - as to chasing the verdict, there won't be any need for that as it has been displayed beautifully and presented to them on a plate!!!

It is an open and shut case that has no possible defence!!

It is a view of the situation. Unless you counter the accusation that its a fix up , by gathering strong evidence, of which I haven't seen any categorical truth, this is what will be said.

They can't find one person in the whole country to say, "this buyer received an extraordinary payment of x or y". The figures are in the billions.

Don't tell me they can't find one? They can't provably get any bank records or statements ? Without this, it appears a witch hunt. Without an independent count on what is in the warehouse, all the rest is semantics.

Having every newspaper printing stories that " rice scheme full of corruption' with a quote "we know it is corrupt", deserves a little investigation before someone gets removed from being a prime minister don't you think.

There is no trial by jury in Thailand, now they have trial by title tattle. Bring one company or person who profited illegally from this system and then throw the book at her.

Displayed and presented where? Where is the evidence of this open and shut case? I haven't read it.

Non of us know what evidence the NACC will forward to the court/Senate IF they decide prosecution is in order. Only when a court case/ Senate impeachment hearing, unfolds will any evidence be revealed to the public. By that time, Ms Yingluck will be out of office and it will not matter what the evidence is or how much there is, to her supporters who will feel justice has been subverted to remove her from office. The newspapers have preemptively convicted her and her supporters have trumpeted her innocence and the lack of evidence. Both are wrong. Right now, people only have 'feelings' about what is provable but only time will tell what the facts/evidence is.

Well that's all a bit ass about face. They should make the accusation and provide their evidence. Until then Yingluck has nothing to do.

It is their job to prove she is guilty, not fish for an admission.

[Thai at Heart]

I see that you admit that the PTP propaganda crew will be spinning lies (they are masters at it) - as to chasing the verdict, there won't be any need for that as it has been displayed beautifully and presented to them on a plate!!!

It is an open and shut case that has no possible defence!!

It is a view of the situation. Unless you counter the accusation that its a fix up , by gathering strong evidence, of which I haven't seen any categorical truth, this is what will be said.

They can't find one person in the whole country to say, "this buyer received an extraordinary payment of x or y". The figures are in the billions.

Don't tell me they can't find one? They can't provably get any bank records or statements ? Without this, it appears a witch hunt. Without an independent count on what is in the warehouse, all the rest is semantics.

Having every newspaper printing stories that " rice scheme full of corruption' with a quote "we know it is corrupt", deserves a little investigation before someone gets removed from being a prime minister don't you think.

There is no trial by jury in Thailand, now they have trial by title tattle. Bring one company or person who profited illegally from this system and then throw the book at her.

Displayed and presented where? Where is the evidence of this open and shut case? I haven't read it.

Non of us know what evidence the NACC will forward to the court/Senate IF they decide prosecution is in order. Only when a court case/ Senate impeachment hearing, unfolds will any evidence be revealed to the public. By that time, Ms Yingluck will be out of office and it will not matter what the evidence is or how much there is, to her supporters who will feel justice has been subverted to remove her from office. The newspapers have preemptively convicted her and her supporters have trumpeted her innocence and the lack of evidence. Both are wrong. Right now, people only have 'feelings' about what is provable but only time will tell what the facts/evidence is.

Well that's all a bit ass about face. They should make the accusation and provide their evidence. Until then Yingluck has nothing to do.

It is their job to prove she is guilty, not fish for an admission.

[SICHONSTEVE]

I see that you admit that the PTP propaganda crew will be spinning lies (they are masters at it) - as to chasing the verdict, there won't be any need for that as it has been displayed beautifully and presented to them on a plate!!!

It is an open and shut case that has no possible defence!!

It is a view of the situation. Unless you counter the accusation that its a fix up , by gathering strong evidence, of which I haven't seen any categorical truth, this is what will be said.

They can't find one person in the whole country to say, "this buyer received an extraordinary payment of x or y". The figures are in the billions.

Don't tell me they can't find one? They can't provably get any bank records or statements ? Without this, it appears a witch hunt. Without an independent count on what is in the warehouse, all the rest is semantics.

Having every newspaper printing stories that " rice scheme full of corruption' with a quote "we know it is corrupt", deserves a little investigation before someone gets removed from being a prime minister don't you think.

There is no trial by jury in Thailand, now they have trial by title tattle. Bring one company or person who profited illegally from this system and then throw the book at her.

Displayed and presented where? Where is the evidence of this open and shut case? I haven't read it.

Non of us know what evidence the NACC will forward to the court/Senate IF they decide prosecution is in order. Only when a court case/ Senate impeachment hearing, unfolds will any evidence be revealed to the public. By that time, Ms Yingluck will be out of office and it will not matter what the evidence is or how much there is, to her supporters who will feel justice has been subverted to remove her from office. The newspapers have preemptively convicted her and her supporters have trumpeted her innocence and the lack of evidence. Both are wrong. Right now, people only have 'feelings' about what is provable but only time will tell what the facts/evidence is.

Well that's all a bit ass about face. They should make the accusation and provide their evidence. Until then Yingluck has nothing to do.

It is their job to prove she is guilty, not fish for an admission.

She has had nothing to do for the last 3 years!!!

[rametindallas]

I see that you admit that the PTP propaganda crew will be spinning lies (they are masters at it) - as to chasing the verdict, there won't be any need for that as it has been displayed beautifully and presented to them on a plate!!!

It is an open and shut case that has no possible defence!!

It is a view of the situation. Unless you counter the accusation that its a fix up , by gathering strong evidence, of which I haven't seen any categorical truth, this is what will be said.

They can't find one person in the whole country to say, "this buyer received an extraordinary payment of x or y". The figures are in the billions.

Don't tell me they can't find one? They can't provably get any bank records or statements ? Without this, it appears a witch hunt. Without an independent count on what is in the warehouse, all the rest is semantics.

Having every newspaper printing stories that " rice scheme full of corruption' with a quote "we know it is corrupt", deserves a little investigation before someone gets removed from being a prime minister don't you think.

There is no trial by jury in Thailand, now they have trial by title tattle. Bring one company or person who profited illegally from this system and then throw the book at her.

Displayed and presented where? Where is the evidence of this open and shut case? I haven't read it.

Non of us know what evidence the NACC will forward to the court/Senate IF they decide prosecution is in order. Only when a court case/ Senate impeachment hearing, unfolds will any evidence be revealed to the public. By that time, Ms Yingluck will be out of office and it will not matter what the evidence is or how much there is, to her supporters who will feel justice has been subverted to remove her from office. The newspapers have preemptively convicted her and her supporters have trumpeted her innocence and the lack of evidence. Both are wrong. Right now, people only have 'feelings' about what is provable but only time will tell what the facts/evidence is.

Well that's all a bit ass about face. They should make the accusation and provide their evidence. Until then Yingluck has nothing to do.

It is their job to prove she is guilty, not fish for an admission.

Evidence can not and will not be presented until the NACC has deemed there is enough evidence to recommend charges. Then the court and/or Senate need to accept the evidence and bring formal charges. Only when a court or Senate impeachment hearing begins, will the public (we) have an opportunity to view what evidence is presented and make our judgment. The same as Apirak, who won the governor's race but was charged with involvement in the Fire Truck/Boat Scandal, who had to resign once he was formally charged. It did not matter that he was later found innocent of the accusations. Ms Yingluck will have to resign before we know if she can be proved either guilty or innocent and by they time, someone else will have filled her position. Apirak set a good example by promptly resigning and accepting that he was punished, unfairly, (by losing his new position as Bangkok Governor) for a crime he didn't commit. Ms Yingluck may very well be found not guilty but the process was in place long before her tenure as PM. The mere fact that Ms Yingluck did not attend the Rice Support Program meetings, even though she was chair, means she did not lift a finger to investigate all the alleged corruption nor did she try to change the program to make it less susceptible to corruption. There was no one else but her with the authority to do that and she, as chairperson, will bear the responsibility of those failures.

You must acknowledge that the Rice Support Scheme was not set up with enough protections and safeguards to limit corruption. You must admit that the program has been poorly managed. You must know that independent agencies have pointed out many flaws in the program and the government ignored every last criticism and refused to modify the program in any way. It does no good to prosecute the dozens (hundreds?) of lower-level crooks when the problem is systemic.

Bottom line: Thaksin is responsible for everything that happened in the PTP government and Ms Yingluck will suffer the consequences. Do you think that is fair? It should be Thaksin at the docket and not Yingluck but Thaksin has decided to live abroad and govern by remote control. Somebody has to pay!

[Thai at Heart]

I see that you admit that the PTP propaganda crew will be spinning lies (they are masters at it) - as to chasing the verdict, there won't be any need for that as it has been displayed beautifully and presented to them on a plate!!!

It is an open and shut case that has no possible defence!!

It is a view of the situation. Unless you counter the accusation that its a fix up , by gathering strong evidence, of which I haven't seen any categorical truth, this is what will be said.

They can't find one person in the whole country to say, "this buyer received an extraordinary payment of x or y". The figures are in the billions.

Don't tell me they can't find one? They can't provably get any bank records or statements ? Without this, it appears a witch hunt. Without an independent count on what is in the warehouse, all the rest is semantics.

Having every newspaper printing stories that " rice scheme full of corruption' with a quote "we know it is corrupt", deserves a little investigation before someone gets removed from being a prime minister don't you think.

There is no trial by jury in Thailand, now they have trial by title tattle. Bring one company or person who profited illegally from this system and then throw the book at her.

Displayed and presented where? Where is the evidence of this open and shut case? I haven't read it.

Non of us know what evidence the NACC will forward to the court/Senate IF they decide prosecution is in order. Only when a court case/ Senate impeachment hearing, unfolds will any evidence be revealed to the public. By that time, Ms Yingluck will be out of office and it will not matter what the evidence is or how much there is, to her supporters who will feel justice has been subverted to remove her from office. The newspapers have preemptively convicted her and her supporters have trumpeted her innocence and the lack of evidence. Both are wrong. Right now, people only have 'feelings' about what is provable but only time will tell what the facts/evidence is.

Well that's all a bit ass about face. They should make the accusation and provide their evidence. Until then Yingluck has nothing to do.

It is their job to prove she is guilty, not fish for an admission.

She has had nothing to do for the last 3 years!!!

Well if you were about to go to a judicial process, and the accusation was

"We reckon there was a bit of corruption, please come and prove that there wasn't"?

That is the purest definition of guilt before innocence. Now everyone can jump up and down and say this is Thailand not the west, its different. But the presumption of innocence is a very important universal concept

So, if the NAAC is going to forward the case because she doesn't present a good enough defence to unknown accusations, then this is the truth of ass about face.

If there is no clear proven specific accusation, how can anyone defend oneself.

[Thai at Heart]

I see that you admit that the PTP propaganda crew will be spinning lies (they are masters at it) - as to chasing the verdict, there won't be any need for that as it has been displayed beautifully and presented to them on a plate!!!

It is an open and shut case that has no possible defence!!

It is a view of the situation. Unless you counter the accusation that its a fix up , by gathering strong evidence, of which I haven't seen any categorical truth, this is what will be said.

They can't find one person in the whole country to say, "this buyer received an extraordinary payment of x or y". The figures are in the billions.

Don't tell me they can't find one? They can't provably get any bank records or statements ? Without this, it appears a witch hunt. Without an independent count on what is in the warehouse, all the rest is semantics.

Having every newspaper printing stories that " rice scheme full of corruption' with a quote "we know it is corrupt", deserves a little investigation before someone gets removed from being a prime minister don't you think.

There is no trial by jury in Thailand, now they have trial by title tattle. Bring one company or person who profited illegally from this system and then throw the book at her.

Displayed and presented where? Where is the evidence of this open and shut case? I haven't read it.

Non of us know what evidence the NACC will forward to the court/Senate IF they decide prosecution is in order. Only when a court case/ Senate impeachment hearing, unfolds will any evidence be revealed to the public. By that time, Ms Yingluck will be out of office and it will not matter what the evidence is or how much there is, to her supporters who will feel justice has been subverted to remove her from office. The newspapers have preemptively convicted her and her supporters have trumpeted her innocence and the lack of evidence. Both are wrong. Right now, people only have 'feelings' about what is provable but only time will tell what the facts/evidence is.

Well that's all a bit ass about face. They should make the accusation and provide their evidence. Until then Yingluck has nothing to do.

It is their job to prove she is guilty, not fish for an admission.

Evidence can not and will not be presented until the NACC has deemed there is enough evidence to recommend charges. Then the court and/or Senate need to accept the evidence and bring formal charges. Only when a court or Senate impeachment hearing begins, will the public (we) have an opportunity to view what evidence is presented and make our judgment. The same as Apirak, who won the governor's race but was charged with involvement in the Fire Truck/Boat Scandal, who had to resign once he was formally charged. It did not matter that he was later found innocent of the accusations. Ms Yingluck will have to resign before we know if she can be proved either guilty or innocent and by they time, someone else will have filled her position. Apirak set a good example by promptly resigning and accepting that he was punished, unfairly, (by losing his new position as Bangkok Governor) for a crime he didn't commit. Ms Yingluck may very well be found not guilty but the process was in place long before her tenure as PM. The mere fact that Ms Yingluck did not attend the Rice Support Program meetings, even though she was chair, means she did not lift a finger to investigate all the alleged corruption nor did she try to change the program to make it less susceptible to corruption. There was no one else but her with the authority to do that and she, as chairperson, will bear the responsibility of those failures.

You must acknowledge that the Rice Support Scheme was not set up with enough protections and safeguards to limit corruption. You must admit that the program has been poorly managed. You must know that independent agencies have pointed out many flaws in the program and the government ignored every last criticism and refused to modify the program in any way. It does no good to prosecute the dozens (hundreds?) of lower-level crooks when the problem is systemic.

Bottom line: Thaksin is responsible for everything that happened in the PTP government and Ms Yingluck will suffer the consequences. Do you think that is fair? It should be Thaksin at the docket and not Yingluck but Thaksin has decided to live abroad and govern by remote control. Somebody has to pay!

So what is she exactly defending if they won't divulge what their evidence is?

It is really ass about face if someone is supposed to randomly prove they aren't corrupt. If the presumption is that she's corrupt and has to prove that she isn't, then that is simply wrong.

They need to prove she's guilty, not prove that she can't defend herself against the accusation

It's like being asked to prove to your wife you aren't having an affair. If you aren't having one you can't, and if you are, the best plan is to deny everything until she presents you with convulsive proof.

[Thaiready]

If the NACC asks these three questions, it is an open and shut case and there is no possible or even theoretical defense.:

1. As Prime Minister, was it your responsibility to appoint a serious person to chair the Rice Support Program? (yes)

2. As Prime Minister, did you appoint yourself to the position of chair of the Rice Support Program? (yes)

3. Did you, personally, chair any meetings of the Rice Support Program? (no)

Guilty of negligence of duty; we will be recommending a formal indictment to the court and impeachment by the Senate.

No other questions need be asked and there is no defense.

Music to my ears !

Will be interesting to hear what the Thai Rouge fans will reply to your post with, if they have the guts to reply at all. Or will they come back with "Suthep is a fascist, Abhisit is a mass murderer, and PTP was elected fairly by the people."

Guess what, as far as the NACC and Yingluck goes, Suthep and Abhisit have nothing to do with her crimes, and the people who voted for (sold their votes to) these crooks were duped, lied to and finally ripped off !!!

all of the above

[Thai at Heart]

I see that you admit that the PTP propaganda crew will be spinning lies (they are masters at it) - as to chasing the verdict, there won't be any need for that as it has been displayed beautifully and presented to them on a plate!!!

It is an open and shut case that has no possible defence!!

It is a view of the situation. Unless you counter the accusation that its a fix up , by gathering strong evidence, of which I haven't seen any categorical truth, this is what will be said.

They can't find one person in the whole country to say, "this buyer received an extraordinary payment of x or y". The figures are in the billions.

Don't tell me they can't find one? They can't provably get any bank records or statements ? Without this, it appears a witch hunt. Without an independent count on what is in the warehouse, all the rest is semantics.

Having every newspaper printing stories that " rice scheme full of corruption' with a quote "we know it is corrupt", deserves a little investigation before someone gets removed from being a prime minister don't you think.

There is no trial by jury in Thailand, now they have trial by title tattle. Bring one company or person who profited illegally from this system and then throw the book at her.

Displayed and presented where? Where is the evidence of this open and shut case? I haven't read it.

Approximately 2 million tons of rice is accountable for and 400 - 450 billion baht has been lost in just over 3 years - Yingluck is the head of the scheme (another of Thaksin's lunatic ideas). She was warned to terminate it and Thaksin said no it will affect our popularity!!!

She is being investigated for being negligent and not in terms of having to identify the source of the corruption as you seem obsessed about - I think that this is evidence enough to apportion blame, don't you???

where are the reports of.this 2mn tons? They have more than that in mold.

The loss is the difference.between what is paid out and the global market price. Not.much to be done with the global price.

[billd766]

Oh no she won't and how do I know, because PTP and the reds are lining up to tell me.

Listen to Jatuporn on the BBC today saying the public are ready to fight because the Bangkok elite are cheating them.

Simple question K. Jatuporn, what are you now ? You've done quite well out of things thanks to Mr. T and sit at the top table but of course you are not one of the elite and can relax knowing your sheep will believe everything you say.

The reason why the PM's older brother can travel the World at will is because his conviction following the coup was seen around the globe as being political motivated and as such scant notice is paid to it. NACC are heading down the same path with his sister. The shortcomings in NACC's procedures have been exposed - they investigate (the investigator is on record as being an oponent of Thaksin - so is not going to be impartial), they decide what witnesses may be called by the accused, they determine the case and it is they that set the penalty. That is not how a fair judicial system works.

It was NOT politically motivated at all.

It IS a law on the statute books of Thailand and the only PM to have been convicted for breaking that law is the only PM who even tried to break the law. In his arrogance he believed (and still does believe) that he and all his family are above the laws of Thailand.

If it was politically motivated why did he flee the country and become a fugitive from justice.

After all the government in power at the time was the PPP led by his brother in law, Somchai and latterly the government of the PTP, both of which he owned.

He could have returned at ANY time AND he still can but he will then face the rest of the charges waiting for him which are more serious.

THAT was the sole reason for the amnesty attempt and for anyone else it was just a bonus, including the first 2 years of the Yingluck PM ship.

Edited for at least 3 spelling mistakes

Edited April 7, 2014 by billd766

[billd766]

This is a complete farce. One can accept the idea that rice pledging was not great policy, fine. Little different, in policy terms from schemes operating in the USA, Japan, Taiwan, Korea and many other countries. When a policy becomes unpopular, it is reasoanble for the govt responsible for it to be voted out of office. That can still happen here. But that isn't the agenda: the old guard want back in and will do ANYTHING to make that happen. Their behaviour is scandalous

In the USA, Japan, Taiwan, Korea and thew many other countries you mention do they have transparency, accountability, open books, qualified accountants and the ability to get legislators fired and jailed for corruption.

If they do then by all means compare them with Thailand which has none and tell us all iof Thailand should work to the same set of rules or, carry on as they are and bankrupting Thailland.

[SICHONSTEVE]

I see that you admit that the PTP propaganda crew will be spinning lies (they are masters at it) - as to chasing the verdict, there won't be any need for that as it has been displayed beautifully and presented to them on a plate!!!

It is an open and shut case that has no possible defence!!

It is a view of the situation. Unless you counter the accusation that its a fix up , by gathering strong evidence, of which I haven't seen any categorical truth, this is what will be said.

They can't find one person in the whole country to say, "this buyer received an extraordinary payment of x or y". The figures are in the billions.

Don't tell me they can't find one? They can't provably get any bank records or statements ? Without this, it appears a witch hunt. Without an independent count on what is in the warehouse, all the rest is semantics.

Having every newspaper printing stories that " rice scheme full of corruption' with a quote "we know it is corrupt", deserves a little investigation before someone gets removed from being a prime minister don't you think.

There is no trial by jury in Thailand, now they have trial by title tattle. Bring one company or person who profited illegally from this system and then throw the book at her.

Displayed and presented where? Where is the evidence of this open and shut case? I haven't read it.

Approximately 2 million tons of rice is accountable for and 400 - 450 billion baht has been lost in just over 3 years - Yingluck is the head of the scheme (another of Thaksin's lunatic ideas). She was warned to terminate it and Thaksin said no it will affect our popularity!!!

She is being investigated for being negligent and not in terms of having to identify the source of the corruption as you seem obsessed about - I think that this is evidence enough to apportion blame, don't you???

where are the reports of.this 2mn tons? They have more than that in mold.

The loss is the difference.between what is paid out and the global market price. Not.much to be done with the global price.

In that case the situation is far worse as they have unaccountable rice and unsaleable rice to boot and with Thailand dumping their stocks on a saturated market it has EVERYTHING to do with depressing the global prices!!! BTW, Don't you think that paying 40% over the market price will accentuate the scam's losses?

[rubl]

Actually having given the issue much more thought I slowly come to the conclusion that the NACC is indeed biased!

Here we have a government which mislaid somehow 700++ billion Baht, a government which changed an amnesty bill to include it's own first two years in office and they charge Ms. Yingluck only for negligence ?