Help! Thai wife buys house but farang husband has no rights?

[Toscano]

There are beautiful houses to rent on protected estates with swimming pool , maybe Tennis court and clubhouse , corner shop etc .

I would recommend renting or leasing one of these at least to begin with . Ofter moving back to her home country can be a rough experience for a Thai wife .

There can easily be conflicts in the innitial years , divorce the law says you would get half of shared property , but in practice foreign husbands find

themselves getting nothing .

If you do buy a property owning the house , with the benefit of the land beneath it , have good lawyers , document all the details and money spent , don't try to be clever and do it by yourself .

[MobileContent]

To the OP if this is the first real-estate you do with your family in Thailand, why not invest in a great condo in Hua Hin.

[dfp]

The OP mentions about a mortgage with a bank. He says he is required to make a "Letter of Confirmation", a confirmation of ? He is the guarantor ?

My best guess is that OP will be the guarantor of payments for the mortgage. In our case I just had to sign on the last page of the mortgage as guarantor of payments.

[pinkpanther99]

As most people have said, Get a good Lawyer.

Also why not consider getting the good lawyer to create a company with both names on the title. The land doesnt belong to you as such, but belongs to the Company.

Yes you have to pay taxes but it is an investment also.

Let me know how things go. I'm very interested.

We are in the process of starting a real estate company and mainly looking after the Farangs best interest. www.siam-living.com

Best of luck and don't be a statistic

I was told that setting up a company for the purpose of a foreigner 'owning' property and land is actually illegal and although many foreigners have gone down this route in the past, it isn't advisable now

[Estrada]

As others have said get a very good lawyer that understands Thai law and also speaks fluent English so there is no confusion.

But from my understanding once you sign the papers and the house is purchased in your wife's name you are screwed and it's all hers no matter what you do to protect yourself

I have heard it possible to draw up a very long term lease that basically gives you some rights to the house but that's why you need a lawyer to explain any options like that.

100's have been burnt badly before you thinking she loves me and we have children so what could go wrong?

Plenty if you read all the horror stories on the internet.

Good luck

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

One friend, Toby Charnaud was not just burnt badly but actually cut up and barbequed by his Thai Wife in Hua Hin in 2006. They also used to live in the UK.

[slipperylobster]

absolutely nothing in it for you. why not buy the house in your country...put it in your name...and have the wife sign a statement saying she owns nothing?

Then rent her a house here.

[Estrada]

I have friends who boasted that they were fully covered by the use of an Usufruct, but when it came to the practicalities things can be different. A few friends Thai wives moved their mothers or brothers families into their house and they were gradually driven out to live in a condo. If you are buying a house on a mortgage then the bank owns the house, not you or your wife, until you have finished paying for it. This is security for you since your wife needs you to pay the monthly mortgage payment and is not likely to bump you off. However, if your wife seems overly keen that you open joint bank accounts, subscribe to joint credit cards and take out life insurance then you better start running. My first Thai partner in the UK took me to the cleaners like that.

I have been married to my Thai wife here, who used to work for me in the UK, for 20 years and have bought two houses in my wife's name and we have three children. I don't have a joint bank account and have plenty of money invested in the Thai Stock Exchange in my name and can easily rent or buy another house or condo should we ever divorce. Should my wife die before me, the children will inherit the houses.

Any children of your Thai wife can get a Thai passport, as did our eldest daughter who was born in the UK where I met my wife.

[rftjon]

A lawyer will cost you a lot of money for nothing. You can of course make a 30-year lease, but will you stay in the house when she and/or her family wants to dump you?

Just consider the gift as an act of love and ask no return, mai pen rai ...

[dmroo]

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As most people have said, Get a good Lawyer.
Also why not consider getting the good lawyer to create a company with both names on the title. The land doesnt belong to you as such, but belongs to the Company.
Yes you have to pay taxes but it is an investment also.
Let me know how things go. I'm very interested.
We are in the process of starting a real estate company and mainly looking after the Farangs best interest. www.siam-living.com
Best of luck and don't be a statistic

I was told that setting up a company for the purpose of a foreigner 'owning' property and land is actually illegal and although many foreigners have gone down this route in the past, it isn't advisable now

Not illegal at all. We just finished doing our yearly taxes, we were visited by the IRS to ensure the people that are registered here are the people on the company name, All is correct, yes there are many shifty lawyers that bypass the correct paperwork, But I can assure you I am and my wife are fully legal. here is a link if your interested a page from our site explaining the law when it comes to Thai ownership. http://www.siam-living.com/?page_id=497 We have the Blue book and all documentation in our company names.

[Maipenraika]

As the man said,foreigners cannot own land only the house. Some one else suggested a condo or apartment, not silly advice. But most of all,check your marriage is registered in Thailand, and finally her "brother" isn't really her legal thai husband. If your marriage is not registered in Thailand you own nothing you buy. Good luck in the land of smiles with the lady of your dreams.

[dmroo]

A lawyer will cost you a lot of money for nothing. You can of course make a 30-year lease, but will you stay in the house when she and/or her family wants to dump you?

Just consider the gift as an act of love and ask no return, mai pen rai ...

average price 35K Baht for a proper lawyer to set you up is not a lot of money when you consider the alternative.

[Nobbie49]

My lawyer states emphatically that, if your marriage is registered in Thailand, the wife cannot sell any assets without her huband's consent. Anyone care to comment because judging by the above posts this does not seem to be the case. Being in a similar situ i would appreciate some sound advice.

[dmroo]

You are simply doing the right thing, which is "questioning it". as many didnt cause of the L word. If your wife agrees to other solutions and accept simply cause she just wants to be with you, then hey.

Do your homework, talk to alot of people not just on the forum.

Dont rush into it, but all can be done properly taking the right path.

[ozyjon]

Try to find a thread on setting up a mortgage arrangement,, as it goes i think ( read somewhere) you set up a mortgage for the property offshore, even in the UK and pay as little as possible for as long as possible,, if anything goes belly up in the future you can stop payments and the other thing is that now you are under pressure, you need time to sort things out about your children, after all we work for the future of our children so make sure they are taken care of because as far as you are concerned if your wife dies you get nothing but the children must be left something not fighting or headaches,,, good luck, don't rush into it because that's what the Thais want, to confuse you out of your money,, lawyer yes but take your time,, there is a thread here about Issan Lawyers, look into it.

[mercman24]

that's a good one "get her to leave it to the kids" and what happens, kid thinks "wow" i have got a property, worth tens of thousand of baht, goodbye dad, same, same .

[Showbags]

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My lawyer states emphatically that, if your marriage is registered in Thailand, the wife cannot sell any assets without her huband's consent. Anyone care to comment because judging by the above posts this does not seem to be the case. Being in a similar situ i would appreciate some sound advice.

It might be...but when she goes and sells it behind your back, or borrows against it to the hilt... then try and deal with that through the courts and it will take you piles of dosh and years and years of frustrations and waiting.....to maybe get something back...maybe

[hotrod4098]

word of advise...get a lawyer..and i mean one that specialize in land deals..do not let you partner or her family choose one...

this is a big investment...think about it..long and hard

think what would happen if things go wrong...

for me ...it would be no lawyer no deal...

i was presented with a land deal ...6 rai..the family was trying to stich me up...one call to my lawyer..the deal was blown out of the water...the land could not be sold..saved me 600000 thb..

Wow...6 rai for 600,000THB was it swamp land in (lower) Nakon Nowhere with (a fake) sor bor kor title

it was in sirratana sisaket by the river...sor sam kor .....the titled had been photo copied...the deed was in to the bank for money owed on it for over 20 years...

the deed holder was to be given 100000,,just for giving the deed to my ex wife to show me the land title...

she was then going to pocket 500000 her self.

it was a big scam had it come off...but the lawyer said some land in sisaket could be common land ,and it can not be sold..only transfered...

when she new it was game over..so was the marrriage

[transam]

Correct above mostly.

Get her to make a will and leave directly to the kids, bypassing the requirement to sell within a year if left to you.

However, if left to you, you can then simply transfer/sell it to your kids anyway.

As for divorce...I believe if you keep the records, you can claim half of it...50% of any assets raised after marriage can be split equally.

And debts...........?

[scorecard]

To the OP,

Lots of comments and experiences shared.

Some contributors have some knowledge of the law, however make comments about 'law' which is nothing more than opinion and guesses.

Invest in a recommended lawyer and get totally correct comprehensive answers and options.

Edited April 7, 2014 by scorecard

[animatic]

You can not buy and own LAND,

but you can lease land for a very long term like 30years at very low rates.

They you can build and OWN a house on that land.

Farangs can own homes, but not companies or land.

So if you write off the loss of the land going in to the

'Thai Company' with your wife as signatory, but get YOUR lawyer

to draw up an ironclad 30 year lease with YOUR option to renew.

And NEVER let new documents be signed without YOUR lawyer

telling you the repercussions of them. Yellow or Blue books etc.

Something that MAY seem like a way of providing for your sons

could actually, remove your control of the house to your wife.

You can WILL the house property to BOTH sons, not the mother,

you should be clear. You can state that on your death a modest stipend

for land rent will go from 'both children lessees' to your wife, and all should be well.

This has nothing to do with her living there or a family book being registered there with all of you on it.

Make sure YOUR lawyer vets the process before signing.

This also somewhat removes the motive for her to whine to a 'younger Thai boyfriend' at a later date,

and he takes you out, so 'his new lady' can get your land.

[Showbags]

Correct above mostly.

Get her to make a will and leave directly to the kids, bypassing the requirement to sell within a year if left to you.

However, if left to you, you can then simply transfer/sell it to your kids anyway.

As for divorce...I believe if you keep the records, you can claim half of it...50% of any assets raised after marriage can be split equally.

And debts...........?

Forgot that yes....I dun dwell on the negative.

[smotherb]

Let's see now; pay for house, lot, insurance, taxes, repairs and maintenance for 30years; then have little option other than to keep paying for the 30 years; and finally you and your foreign heirs own nothing. Yes indeed, that sounds a lot better then renting.

[Chicken George]

Yes its a gift so to say. If you divorce you get 50% but if kids stay with her you have to pay for them if they are still at school.. its can he messy. I have a lifetime lease on my bouse and its written o the back of the chanot thats yhe tittle deed. Cost 75baht.. If you are not sure dont do it. You have not said why you are buyin? You still working? Zhe is living back here? You sound very doubtful of your wife so take care.

[stgrhe]

Well, it is true that foreigners cannot own land, with some very special exceptions, and cannot have his name on the title deed, but that doesn't mean you own nothing. As you and your wife are legally married both of you will own half of the property's value as the purchase will be done during the marriage. This property will therefore be regarded as sin somros.

[larsjohnsson]

A lawyer will cost you a lot of money for nothing. You can of course make a 30-year lease, but will you stay in the house when she and/or her family wants to dump you?

Just consider the gift as an act of love and ask no return, mai pen rai ...

average price 35K Baht for a proper lawyer to set you up is not a lot of money when you consider the alternative.

It is, the alternative is renting and no lawyer

[Guitar God]

From what I've heard a usufruct needs to be registered at the land office and a bank won't give your wife a mortgage if you have a usufruct. The only way that method would work is if you paid cash for the house. It does seem possible to have her own the land and you own the house though.

I've also heard that if your marriage is registered at the amphur you wife can't sell the house without your approval and post marital assets are supposed to be split 50/50 if you divorce. The advice I've received is to document that the money came from you and in the event of a divorce, in court it may be possible to receive half the proceeds of the sale of the house.

Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer, but I did play one on TV.

[SOTIRIOS]

As others have said get a very good lawyer that understands Thai law and also speaks fluent English so there is no confusion.

But from my understanding once you sign the papers and the house is purchased in your wife's name you are screwed and it's all hers no matter what you do to protect yourself

I have heard it possible to draw up a very long term lease that basically gives you some rights to the house but that's why you need a lawyer to explain any options like that.

100's have been burnt badly before you thinking she loves me and we have children so what could go wrong?

Plenty if you read all the horror stories on the internet.

Good luck

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

....probably thousands...if not tens of thousands....

...the victims rarely come forward...for obvious reasons....

....look at the annual tourist figures ...

...and some women have been married 3-4-5 times....

....(in a recent posting...she did not even bother divorcing 1 westerner before she married the next...from another country)..

[JesseFrank]

From what I've heard a usufruct needs to be registered at the land office and a bank won't give your wife a mortgage if you have a usufruct. The only way that method would work is if you paid cash for the house. It does seem possible to have her own the land and you own the house though.

I've also heard that if your marriage is registered at the amphur you wife can't sell the house without your approval and post marital assets are supposed to be split 50/50 if you divorce. The advice I've received is to document that the money came from you and in the event of a divorce, in court it may be possible to receive half the proceeds of the sale of the house.

Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer, but I did play one on TV.

I think you have heard many wrong things.

It is indeed possible to have the land in Thai name and the house in foreigner name, but that is only possible when you build a new house and have a lease agreement. In that case you can get building license in foreign name. Once the house is on the land, like it seems from the OP, both are sold as one . You can't sell the land to a Thai and the house to someone else.

Wife does with the house and land whatever she wants, even if she's married she doesn't need approval from her husband, since it is her house.

To show in case of a divorce that the moneys to buy the property came from you is a good way to be arrested for false statements, since at the time the property was purchased you signed an official document that the money didn't come from you.

[Stan7444]

Peter, the above is correct.

You can buy a Condo/Apartment in your own name, but a house has a definable land content, and foreigners are not allowed to own land ... there are rare exceptions.

Go to the Real-Estate Forum, there are literally 100's on threads on the subject.

In essence, what the Thai government are asking you to confirm is that the Money (your money) is hers and not you gifting it to her ... or something along those lines.

Hundreds, maybe thousands of Westerners have lost their life savings 'investing' in Thai housing.

It's a serious step and, if I were you, read up here on the subject, then make your decision based on your gut feeling about the relationship.

Just tell the missus that there is a technical delay and read, read and read some more.

Further to the above, there are several farang lawyers which are in Bangkok in particular who well know Thai real estate law, and both speak and read/write in Thai. There are also good Thai lawyers, but I personally prefer the farang ones since we fully understand one another well.

The Thai wife can own the land, but must prove that the money to purchase land is her own and not from any farang, hence the documents which are required.

A farang can own the land only if they also own a Thai registered company and then the company buys the land, but probably too complicated for you though.

I have been looking at doing the same thing since I live in Thailand and marrying a nice lady, at least she seems that way in the beginning. The land can be in the wife's name and the house (per the legal advice on ThaiVisa Ask the Lawyer, can be in the farang name, with survivor rights going to the wife, presuming she survives the farang. If she does not out survive the husband, then according to the Ask the Lawyer, the farang must sell the property within one year after her death, and do not know if farang can keep the house on the land. With children involved, it gets more complicated and if you wish the property to go to one or both of them, this is another legal issue. I do know that having a Thai Will will be an advantages since there are Western legal issues which are not recognized by Thai courts, such as Trusts per my understanding.

I have never seen a country like Thailand which is so complicated and places so many roadblocks just to purchase land and a home. While Thais can come to the UK or US and other countries and buy homes all day long, they prohibit farangs from doing the same-same. It is still a 3rd world mentality but their economy would be far better if they just opened up the R.E. market to the world.

[Konini]

_{One point that has been raised here is of the wife making a will. I had a will drawn up more than 20 years ago leaving everything to my husband then on to closest relatives if he goes before me, but tomorrow I can make a new will leaving everything to the lost dog's home or whoever I choose to. I don't even have to tell anyone I've changed my will and nobody will know that I have until I die and the relatives find out that they are getting nothing.}

_{I think relying on a will isn't very sensible; as I pointed out, I can change my will without anybody knowing about it. If I were in the business of cheating someone out of money, and I am in no way saying that this is the case for the OP, I would happily go to a solicitor and draw up a will to make everything look above board then go back to his office the next week and make a new one to replace it. Nothing at all illegal in that and I assume confidentiality laws would prevent the solicitor from telling anyone including a husband/wife.}

_{Quite surprised that nobody else picked up on this as it was the first thought that popped into my mind as I read it. Perhaps I just have an evil devious mind.}