On The Forum Why Do People..............

[Donz]

Ive always just treated this place as just abit of fun, alot of these so called research is BS anyway.

[Totster]

I concur Plus ....

Plus what... ?

totster

[Cassandra]

I do agree that there could well be room for a serious forum - a smiley free zone if you will. However, I would rather discuss even the most serious matters with a degree of levity as real life is heavy enough going at times.

I would wish for a serious forum. I don't want the whole board to be serious, but i would wish for a space that is strictly moderated in which certain topics can be discussed seriously, absolutely flame free, where discussions can be held undisturbed on a very high level. No sarcy posting of pictures replacing well researched and intelligent statements, no ad hominem attacks, with clear rules of conduct.

This would be for me professionally and personally a valuable addition here. I belive that on the board are many posters doing serious research in one way or the other in Thai and Asian studies, and would love to exchange ideas in a way that is benefitting to their research.

It's a worthy idea but, if this isn't too sensitive subject, it would require a moderator with the appropriate intellectual and cultural qualifications.

[Totster]

I do agree that there could well be room for a serious forum - a smiley free zone if you will. However, I would rather discuss even the most serious matters with a degree of levity as real life is heavy enough going at times.

I would wish for a serious forum. I don't want the whole board to be serious, but i would wish for a space that is strictly moderated in which certain topics can be discussed seriously, absolutely flame free, where discussions can be held undisturbed on a very high level. No sarcy posting of pictures replacing well researched and intelligent statements, no ad hominem attacks, with clear rules of conduct.

This would be for me professionally and personally a valuable addition here. I belive that on the board are many posters doing serious research in one way or the other in Thai and Asian studies, and would love to exchange ideas in a way that is benefitting to their research.

It's a worthy idea but, if this isn't too sensitive subject, it would require a moderator with the appropriate intellectual and cultural qualifications.

Ah... so the plan fails...

totster

[Ulysses G.]

I do agree that there could well be room for a serious forum - a smiley free zone if you will. However, I would rather discuss even the most serious matters with a degree of levity as real life is heavy enough going at times.

I would wish for a serious forum. I don't want the whole board to be serious, but i would wish for a space that is strictly moderated in which certain topics can be discussed seriously, absolutely flame free, where discussions can be held undisturbed on a very high level. No sarcy posting of pictures replacing well researched and intelligent statements, no ad hominem attacks, with clear rules of conduct.

This would be for me professionally and personally a valuable addition here. I belive that on the board are many posters doing serious research in one way or the other in Thai and Asian studies, and would love to exchange ideas in a way that is benefitting to their research.

It's a worthy idea but, if this isn't too sensitive subject, it would require a moderator with the appropriate intellectual and cultural qualifications.

Doctor Pat Pong seems the sensitive type.

[Donz]

i can be the mod for this new section

[Totster]

i can be the mod for this new section

you..? 5555555555555555555

totster

[Donz]

i can be the mod for this new section

you..? 5555555555555555555

totster

see totster agrees, now who else? im sure i would get cdnvic would also agree.

[cdnvic]

Today's my day off. Keep me out of it. Why don't you PM totster and the two of you can come up with a plan.

I have to go now.

cv

[Totster]

Today's my day off. Keep me out of it. Why don't you PM totster and the two of you can come up with a plan.

I have to go now.

cv

Oi.. don't tell him to PM me..

totster

[Jai Dee]

It's a worthy idea but, if this isn't too sensitive subject, it would require a moderator with the appropriate intellectual and cultural qualifications.

:D

Thanks for that... I just spat my coffee all over the screen and keyboard...

Ripper mate!!!

[ovenman]

Anybody seen any sign of daveyo lately...? He'd be my candidate.

Edited June 9, 2006 by ovenman

[jdinasia]

So .... Jai Dee ... have you set up the outrageous serious researchers forum yet?

Maybe we can get someone to sponsor it!

[cdnvic]

So .... Jai Dee ... have you set up the outrageous serious researchers forum yet?

Maybe we can get someone to sponsor it!

I'll email an offer to the Institute for Serious Research

cv

[Totster]

So .... Jai Dee ... have you set up the outrageous serious researchers forum yet?

Maybe we can get someone to sponsor it!

I'll email an offer to the Institute for Serious Research

cv

Or a mental asylum... the one donz uses maybe ?

totster

[jdinasia]

i'll save my best comments for PM's

[Tippaporn]

I find that if it is a serious discussion, you will generally get serious responses. If it is a "head-up-your-arse" topic, then the responses will match.

I know what the OP means. When someone spends the time to draft a well thought-out reply, and all of the responses to it are just smileys or one word "huh ?" type replies.

I also like the ones where someone feels compelled to quote an entire post, and doesn't add anything at all to it.

And then someone else will quote that entire post and add a smiley.

And then someone else will again quote the entire piece, and add yet another smiley.

You end up with 4 screens of crap for what amounts to 2 lines of comments (including the smileys) from a total of 10 posters.

I browse hundreds of posts and never feel I have to reply to every one of them in some manner, but others do feel compelled to do so, even when they have nothing constructive to add to the discussion.

It's unfortunate, but as someone else mentioned, it is the nature of public boards such as these. The only way to avoid it would be to start your own board, and only invite those whose views (and posting styles) match your own. Kinda like that "other" site that shall not be mentioned

Then, anyone who doesn't follow your views on posting could be banned !

(now, count the number of replies to this that consist of just a smiley or short, pointless one liners. You know it's going to happen. You can't help yourself. I can see you now trying to decide which smiley would be most appropriate. Go on, DO IT ! You know you wanna...........)

"click"

There, now don't you feel better ? Don't you feel like you've made a significant contribution to the conversation ? I can see the smug smile on your face from here. Good work ! Now go give yourself a congratulatory wank in the WC !

And then you get some posters who labour on to such lengths that people with short attentions spans, like me, forget what the topic was in the first place.

Sorry, Kerry.

[jdinasia]

I find that if it is a serious discussion, you will generally get serious responses. If it is a "head-up-your-arse" topic, then the responses will match.

I know what the OP means. When someone spends the time to draft a well thought-out reply, and all of the responses to it are just smileys or one word "huh ?" type replies.

I also like the ones where someone feels compelled to quote an entire post, and doesn't add anything at all to it.

And then someone else will quote that entire post and add a smiley.

And then someone else will again quote the entire piece, and add yet another smiley.

You end up with 4 screens of crap for what amounts to 2 lines of comments (including the smileys) from a total of 10 posters.

I browse hundreds of posts and never feel I have to reply to every one of them in some manner, but others do feel compelled to do so, even when they have nothing constructive to add to the discussion.

It's unfortunate, but as someone else mentioned, it is the nature of public boards such as these. The only way to avoid it would be to start your own board, and only invite those whose views (and posting styles) match your own. Kinda like that "other" site that shall not be mentioned

Then, anyone who doesn't follow your views on posting could be banned !

(now, count the number of replies to this that consist of just a smiley or short, pointless one liners. You know it's going to happen. You can't help yourself. I can see you now trying to decide which smiley would be most appropriate. Go on, DO IT ! You know you wanna...........)

"click"

There, now don't you feel better ? Don't you feel like you've made a significant contribution to the conversation ? I can see the smug smile on your face from here. Good work ! Now go give yourself a congratulatory wank in the WC !

And then you get some posters who labour on to such lengths that people with short attentions spans, like me, forget what the topic was in the first place.

Sorry, Kerry.

Spot on Tip

[elkangorito]

I am not a perfect poster but i am really focussing on improving. I am not trying to start arguments but wondering why do some posters......

respond to lenghty posts that have a thought out argument with a one line comment?

eg: "The evidence does not support that."

How about sharing it!!!

generalise eveything and everyone?

eg: "You are here for the sex and beer, my friend."

respond to logical comments with responses they do nothing for the topic?

eg: "Is there more to Thailand then sex and beer?? " (seen that 500 times) or, as in a discussion about Thai language, "People here should learn to use English grammar."

when someone disagrees with them and uses a logical argument the response just gets hostile?

"Your idea is idiotic, you would'nt know the real Thailand"

go out of their way to make Thailand appear as backward and all Thais corrupt and stupid?

I mean Thailand is not perfect and discussing the flaws is fine but also realise that every country has flaws. Use comparisons, think about the issue. Would be a joy for all.

The sad thing for me is that a lot of these responses come from people who have 200+ posts. Is that how they got them? It is just sad that many good posts degenerate or good topics can not develop because of things like the above.

Why do people need to do it? Do they not think before posting? I know sometimes I walk the line when I read some responses and want to say something smartassed back but then think what does it contribute to the board. I also know how hard it can be to stick to the original topic because the topic can wind off. There are so many intelligent people here, many make excellent points, and then later resort to one of the above responses!

Should there be an area inside this board that is used for academic discussion. Where comments need to be supported and thought shown. Anyone breaching the above points gets warned and banned from that area? Could it be done or should it be done?

I also bet that there will be some smartass comments made in reply to this post

Why the h el are you worried about this?

This is simple...just CHOOSE to ignore the posts you don't like OR, should you CHOOSE to respond, accept the consequences of your CHOSEN REACTION.

Can you imagine a 'perfect' Thaivisa? For that matter, can you imagine a 'perfect' world? Is this what you want? A 'perfect' world whereby nothing upsets you or anybody else?

I think you're dreaming.

Instead of trying to get other people to change to your liking, why don't you change your reaction?

Besides, Thaivisa (& the world) would be 'colourless' if things were to your liking.

"The mind is like a parachute...it only works when it is fully open".

Edited June 9, 2006 by elkangorito

[quadricorrelator]

I am not a perfect poster but i am really focussing on improving. I am not trying to start arguments but wondering why do some posters......

respond to lenghty posts that have a thought out argument with a one line comment?

eg: "The evidence does not support that."

How about sharing it!!!

generalise eveything and everyone?

eg: "You are here for the sex and beer, my friend."

respond to logical comments with responses they do nothing for the topic?

eg: "Is there more to Thailand then sex and beer?? " (seen that 500 times) or, as in a discussion about Thai language, "People here should learn to use English grammar."

when someone disagrees with them and uses a logical argument the response just gets hostile?

"Your idea is idiotic, you would'nt know the real Thailand"

go out of their way to make Thailand appear as backward and all Thais corrupt and stupid?

I mean Thailand is not perfect and discussing the flaws is fine but also realise that every country has flaws. Use comparisons, think about the issue. Would be a joy for all.

The sad thing for me is that a lot of these responses come from people who have 200+ posts. Is that how they got them? It is just sad that many good posts degenerate or good topics can not develop because of things like the above.

Why do people need to do it? Do they not think before posting? I know sometimes I walk the line when I read some responses and want to say something smartassed back but then think what does it contribute to the board. I also know how hard it can be to stick to the original topic because the topic can wind off. There are so many intelligent people here, many make excellent points, and then later resort to one of the above responses!

Should there be an area inside this board that is used for academic discussion. Where comments need to be supported and thought shown. Anyone breaching the above points gets warned and banned from that area? Could it be done or should it be done?

I also bet that there will be some smartass comments made in reply to this post

I share your thinking. I am trying to improve my ability to make valid arguments to do my part.

Sometimes I think there should be a logic test that we must pass before being allowed to post.

I think there are standard sections in logic courses which are designed to train us to recognize fallacious arguments. One such popular book by Irving Copi, is "An Introduction To Logic".

There are websites which list and explain common fallacies we use in everyday arguing. Here is one such website:

http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/skeptic/arguments.html

Here is the list they cover:

Ad Hominem (Argument To The Man)

Affirming The Consequent

Amazing Familiarity

Ambiguous Assertion

Appeal To Anonymous Authority

Appeal To Authority

Appeal To Coincidence

Appeal To Complexity

Appeal To False Authority

Appeal To Force

Appeal To Pity (Appeal to Sympathy, The Galileo Argument)

Appeal To Widespread Belief (Bandwagon Argument, Peer Pressure, Appeal To Common Practice)

Argument By Emotive Language (Appeal To The People)

Argument By Fast Talking

Argument By Generalization

Argument By Gibberish (Bafflement)

Argument By Half Truth (Suppressed Evidence)

Argument By Laziness (Argument By Uninformed Opinion)

Argument By Personal Charm

Argument By Pigheadedness (Doggedness)

Argument By Poetic Language

Argument By Prestigious Jargon

Argument By Question

Argument By Repetition (Argument Ad Nauseam)

Argument by Rhetorical Question

Argument By Scenario

Argument By Selective Observation

Argument By Selective Reading

Argument By Slogan

Argument From Adverse Consequences (Appeal To Fear, Scare Tactics)

Argument From Age (Wisdom of the Ancients)

Argument From Authority

Argument From False Authority

Argument From Small Numbers

Argument From Spurious Similarity

Argument Of The Beard

Argument To The Future

Bad Analogy

Begging The Question (Assuming The Answer, Tautology)

Burden Of Proof

Causal Reductionism (Complex Cause)

Changing The Subject (Digression, Red Herring, Misdirection, False Emphasis)

Cliche Thinking

Common Sense

Complex Question (Tying)

Confusing Correlation And Causation

Disproof By Fallacy

Equivocation

Error Of Fact

Euphemism

Exception That Proves The Rule

Excluded Middle (False Dichotomy, Faulty Dilemma, Bifurcation)

Extended Analogy

Failure To State

Fallacy Of Composition

Fallacy Of Division

Fallacy Of The General Rule

Fallacy Of The Crucial Experiment

False Cause

False Compromise

Genetic Fallacy (Fallacy of Origins, Fallacy of Virtue)

Having Your Cake (Failure To Assert, or Diminished Claim)

Hypothesis Contrary To Fact

Inconsistency

Inflation Of Conflict

Internal Contradiction

Least Plausible Hypothesis

Lies

Meaningless Questions

Misunderstanding The Nature Of Statistics

Moving The Goalposts (Raising The Bar, Argument By Demanding Impossible Perfection)

Needling

Non Sequitur

Not Invented Here

Outdated Information

Pious Fraud

Poisoning The Wells

Psychogenetic Fallacy

Reductio Ad Absurdum

Reductive Fallacy (Oversimplification)

Reifying

Short Term Versus Long Term

Slippery Slope Fallacy (Camel's Nose)

Special Pleading (Stacking The Deck)

Statement Of Conversion

Stolen Concept

Straw Man (Fallacy Of Extension)

Two Wrongs Make A Right (Tu Quoque, You Too)

Weasel Wording

Recently added or modified fallacies:

Ad Hominem (Argument To The Man) modified.

Equivocation modified.

Fallacy Of The Crucial Experiment added.

Needling added.

Pious Fraud added.

Statement Of Conversion added.

[Tippaporn]

I share your thinking. I am trying to improve my ability to make valid arguments to do my part.

Sometimes I think there should be a logic test that we must pass before being allowed to post.

I think there are standard sections in logic courses which are designed to train us to recognize fallacious arguments. One such popular book by Irving Copi, is "An Introduction To Logic".

There are websites which list and explain common fallacies we use in everyday arguing.

Here is the list they cover:

Ad Hominem (Argument To The Man)

Affirming The Consequent

Amazing Familiarity

Ambiguous Assertion

Appeal To Anonymous Authority

Appeal To Authority

Appeal To Coincidence

Appeal To Complexity

Appeal To False Authority

Appeal To Force

Appeal To Pity (Appeal to Sympathy, The Galileo Argument)

Appeal To Widespread Belief (Bandwagon Argument, Peer Pressure, Appeal To Common Practice)

Argument By Emotive Language (Appeal To The People)

Argument By Fast Talking

Argument By Generalization

Argument By Gibberish (Bafflement)

Argument By Half Truth (Suppressed Evidence)

Argument By Laziness (Argument By Uninformed Opinion)

Argument By Personal Charm

Argument By Pigheadedness (Doggedness)

Argument By Poetic Language

Argument By Prestigious Jargon

Argument By Question

Argument By Repetition (Argument Ad Nauseam)

Argument by Rhetorical Question

Argument By Scenario

Argument By Selective Observation

Argument By Selective Reading

Argument By Slogan

Argument From Adverse Consequences (Appeal To Fear, Scare Tactics)

Argument From Age (Wisdom of the Ancients)

Argument From Authority

Argument From False Authority

Argument From Small Numbers

Argument From Spurious Similarity

Argument Of The Beard

Argument To The Future

Bad Analogy

Begging The Question (Assuming The Answer, Tautology)

Burden Of Proof

Causal Reductionism (Complex Cause)

Changing The Subject (Digression, Red Herring, Misdirection, False Emphasis)

Cliche Thinking

Common Sense

Complex Question (Tying)

Confusing Correlation And Causation

Disproof By Fallacy

Equivocation

Error Of Fact

Euphemism

Exception That Proves The Rule

Excluded Middle (False Dichotomy, Faulty Dilemma, Bifurcation)

Extended Analogy

Failure To State

Fallacy Of Composition

Fallacy Of Division

Fallacy Of The General Rule

Fallacy Of The Crucial Experiment

False Cause

False Compromise

Genetic Fallacy (Fallacy of Origins, Fallacy of Virtue)

Having Your Cake (Failure To Assert, or Diminished Claim)

Hypothesis Contrary To Fact

Inconsistency

Inflation Of Conflict

Internal Contradiction

Least Plausible Hypothesis

Lies

Meaningless Questions

Misunderstanding The Nature Of Statistics

Moving The Goalposts (Raising The Bar, Argument By Demanding Impossible Perfection)

Needling

Non Sequitur

Not Invented Here

Outdated Information

Pious Fraud

Poisoning The Wells

Psychogenetic Fallacy

Reductio Ad Absurdum

Reductive Fallacy (Oversimplification)

Reifying

Short Term Versus Long Term

Slippery Slope Fallacy (Camel's Nose)

Special Pleading (Stacking The Deck)

Statement Of Conversion

Stolen Concept

Straw Man (Fallacy Of Extension)

Two Wrongs Make A Right (Tu Quoque, You Too)

Weasel Wording

Recently added or modified fallacies:

Ad Hominem (Argument To The Man) modified.

Equivocation modified.

Fallacy Of The Crucial Experiment added.

Needling added.

Pious Fraud added.

Statement Of Conversion added.

Somebody obviously pegged me. Instead of reciting the above, droning list I've condensed the description of my art simplistically . . . pure bullshit.

[kayo]

I concur Plus ....

Plus what... ?

totster

A cup of t ea, I'm sure.

An old friend and fellow tv user taught me a goldie,

@I speak two languages: English, and after five o' clock, Bullshit. @

[Tippaporn]

I concur Plus ....

Plus what... ?

totster

A cup of t ea, I'm sure.

An old friend and fellow tv user taught me a goldie,

@I speak two languages: English, and after five o' clock, Bullshit. @

I think your clock has stuck at half-past five, kayo.

[Totster]

I concur Plus ....

Plus what... ?

totster

A cup of t ea, I'm sure.

An old friend and fellow tv user taught me a goldie,

@I speak two languages: English, and after five o' clock, Bullshit. @

I think your clock has stuck at half-past five, kayo.

It's always after 5 o'clock somewhere...

totster

[John K]

A good point in this thread. I myself have found that if you ignore the undesired posts, they will eventually go away. They require a response to continue. There are several intellectual voices that are silent just because they don’t want to deal with BS. It also depend on the nature of the topic. Serious topics deserve serious posts. Fun topics are fair game for anything inside the limits of the forum rules. Perhaps just an icon of a brain showing that serious posts should only be given in a particular thread. I think that would be a good start. I try to make my posts worth reading, but I do admit from time to time I wander. Then again some long running threads like perhaps on Thaksin that start off serious end up absurd only because his actions have become absurd.

[thaibebop]

A good point in this thread. I myself have found that if you ignore the undesired posts, they will eventually go away. They require a response to continue. There are several intellectual voices that are silent just because they don’t want to deal with BS. It also depend on the nature of the topic. Serious topics deserve serious posts. Fun topics are fair game for anything inside the limits of the forum rules. Perhaps just an icon of a brain showing that serious posts should only be given in a particular thread. I think that would be a good start. I try to make my posts worth reading, but I do admit from time to time I wander. Then again some long running threads like perhaps on Thaksin that start off serious end up absurd only because his actions have become absurd.

I like your idea about icons to indicate what kind of posts the OP would like.

[Totster]

A good point in this thread. I myself have found that if you ignore the undesired posts, they will eventually go away. They require a response to continue. There are several intellectual voices that are silent just because they don’t want to deal with BS. It also depend on the nature of the topic. Serious topics deserve serious posts. Fun topics are fair game for anything inside the limits of the forum rules. Perhaps just an icon of a brain showing that serious posts should only be given in a particular thread. I think that would be a good start. I try to make my posts worth reading, but I do admit from time to time I wander. Then again some long running threads like perhaps on Thaksin that start off serious end up absurd only because his actions have become absurd.

I like your idea about icons to indicate what kind of posts the OP would like.

Not that anyone would take a blind bit of notice...

totster

[thaibebop]

A good point in this thread. I myself have found that if you ignore the undesired posts, they will eventually go away. They require a response to continue. There are several intellectual voices that are silent just because they don’t want to deal with BS. It also depend on the nature of the topic. Serious topics deserve serious posts. Fun topics are fair game for anything inside the limits of the forum rules. Perhaps just an icon of a brain showing that serious posts should only be given in a particular thread. I think that would be a good start. I try to make my posts worth reading, but I do admit from time to time I wander. Then again some long running threads like perhaps on Thaksin that start off serious end up absurd only because his actions have become absurd.

I like your idea about icons to indicate what kind of posts the OP would like.

Not that anyone would take a blind bit of notice...

totster

True, but still a nice idea.

[ThaiPauly]

IMO The point of why Thai Visa.com exists should be mentioned here.

It was never created to cater to one particular class of person.

It is here for EVERYONE be they well educated or not

It is here as a very good source of information for people who have just moved or want to move here and those already living here, there is always something to learn.

Then there are all the sub-forums..for myself there is NOTHING in LOS that I needed to know about that I could not get said info from somebody on this forum and I am very grateful for that

It is true that many people use the forum for much more than information gathering..thats OK too, but its up to TV Members if they wish to contribute to a particular thread or not.

Personally if I don't have either any information or opinion on a topic I will not post on it...why can't others do likewise?

If somebody wants an interlectual debate then by all means have one and feel free to ignore the respondants whose opinions do not co-incide with yours..or conduct private debates via P'M's its not rocket science is it?

TP

[icecubes]

Anuaaron,

Thank good snobby people like you don't make the rules.

Who do you think you are.

sorry this post is to long, i ment to say

Idiot.