On The Forum Why Do People..............

[Totster]

IMO The point of why Thai Visa.com exists should be mentioned here.

It was never created to cater to one particular class of person.

It is here for EVERYONE be they well educated or not

It is here as a very good source of information for people who have just moved or want to move here and those already living here, there is always something to learn.

Then there are all the sub-forums..for myself there is NOTHING in LOS that I needed to know about that I could not get said info from somebody on this forum and I am very grateful for that

It is true that many people use the forum for much more than information gathering..thats OK too, but its up to TV Members if they wish to contribute to a particular thread or not.

Personally if I don't have either any information or opinion on a topic I will not post on it...why can't others do likewise?

If somebody wants an interlectual debate then by all means have one and feel free to ignore the respondants whose opinions do not co-incide with yours..or conduct private debates via P'M's its not rocket science is it?

TP

Nice one TP

The problem is that the so called intellectuals want to have their own section where they can show off their knowledge and wisdom, somewhere to mix with other superior minded individuals and take part in complicated 100 page debates on subjects like "mia noi" etc.. In these debates they delight in typing long winded essays where 90% of what they have written is irrelevant and normally based on poor or misinterpreted facts or just wild guesswork, then when they've finally managed to repeat themselves to each other for about 90 pages they start to squabble and call each other names, because their so called intellect has ummm.. failed.

Personally I think a bit of humour is needed in these type of topics to stop the posters from disapperaing up their own <deleted>...

totster

Edited June 10, 2006 by Totster

[John K]

It is true that many people use the forum for much more than information gathering..thats OK too, but its up to TV Members if they wish to contribute to a particular thread or not.

Personally if I don't have either any information or opinion on a topic I will not post on it...why can't others do likewise?

If somebody wants an interlectual debate then by all means have one and feel free to ignore the respondants whose opinions do not co-incide with yours..or conduct private debates via P'M's its not rocket science is it?

TP

I was making reference to sarcastic posts that have no reason except to antagonize the author of other posts. Plus the fact that they may violate one or more of the forum rules. Differing opinions are by all means welcome.

[Martin]

I think that the discourse of academics tends to be improved by the knowledge that there are some shrewd piisstakers 'earwigging'.

If 'dafties' are ignored, they go away.

I hate that feature that fills long lengths with quotes of previous postings, though.

If we all took the bit of time to 'copy and paste' the words of the previous posting to which we are replying, the board would be less lengthy, without losing any 'meat'.

[Jai Dee]

I was making reference to sarcastic posts that have no reason except to antagonize the author of other posts. Plus the fact that they may violate one or more of the forum rules. Differing opinions are by all means welcome.

There is a difference between trolling and flaming, and having a different opinion.

[John K]

I was making reference to sarcastic posts that have no reason except to antagonize the author of other posts. Plus the fact that they may violate one or more of the forum rules. Differing opinions are by all means welcome.

There is a difference between trolling and flaming, and having a different opinion.

I think a clearer way to spell it out is if the post focuses on the author and not the topic. No matter what you call it, it’s in poor taste. Differing opinions and differing points of view are a great. Especially so if it is a professional opinion and not a personal opinion.

[Jai Dee]

Especially so if it is a professional opinion and not a personal opinion.

Could you please clarify?

Are you saying that an opinion from a professional is worth more than opinion from a non-professional?

[John K]

I think we must each be our own judge on that. I think professional opinions tend to eliminate misconceptions. I also know some of the best ideas come from non professional opinions. Being too near the topic tends to limit the field of view.

[ThaiPauly]

I think we must each be our own judge on that. I think professional opinions tend to eliminate misconceptions. I also know some of the best ideas come from non professional opinions. Being too near the topic tends to limit the field of view.

John,

I am curious to know what the letters C.H stand for on your signiture?

TP

[Totster]

I think we must each be our own judge on that. I think professional opinions tend to eliminate misconceptions. I also know some of the best ideas come from non professional opinions. Being too near the topic tends to limit the field of view.

John,

I am curious to know what the letters C.H stand for on your signiture?

TP

I could make some suggestions...

.. but that wouldn't be very polite of me..

totster

[Tippaporn]

Perhaps just an icon of a brain showing that serious posts should only be given in a particular thread.

This might be suitable, John.

Of course, some might prefer this.

[Noel]

I think we must each be our own judge on that. I think professional opinions tend to eliminate misconceptions. I also know some of the best ideas come from non professional opinions. Being too near the topic tends to limit the field of view.

John,

I am curious to know what the letters C.H stand for on your signiture?

TP

Trussssst in me...

Edited June 10, 2006 by Noel

[John K]

I think we must each be our own judge on that. I think professional opinions tend to eliminate misconceptions. I also know some of the best ideas come from non professional opinions. Being too near the topic tends to limit the field of view.

John,

I am curious to know what the letters C.H stand for on your signiture?

TP

It is one of my credentials. The others for the moment are tucked away so my little blue book finds it’s way back to me from a certain Thai office without problems. You know where to click to answer what they mean.

[jdinasia]

IMO The point of why Thai Visa.com exists should be mentioned here.

It was never created to cater to one particular class of person.

It is here for EVERYONE be they well educated or not

It is here as a very good source of information for people who have just moved or want to move here and those already living here, there is always something to learn.

Then there are all the sub-forums..for myself there is NOTHING in LOS that I needed to know about that I could not get said info from somebody on this forum and I am very grateful for that

It is true that many people use the forum for much more than information gathering..thats OK too, but its up to TV Members if they wish to contribute to a particular thread or not.

Personally if I don't have either any information or opinion on a topic I will not post on it...why can't others do likewise?

If somebody wants an interlectual debate then by all means have one and feel free to ignore the respondants whose opinions do not co-incide with yours..or conduct private debates via P'M's its not rocket science is it?

TP

Nice one TP

The problem is that the so called intellectuals want to have their own section where they can show off their knowledge and wisdom, somewhere to mix with other superior minded individuals and take part in complicated 100 page debates on subjects like "mia noi" etc.. In these debates they delight in typing long winded essays where 90% of what they have written is irrelevant and normally based on poor or misinterpreted facts or just wild guesswork, then when they've finally managed to repeat themselves to each other for about 90 pages they start to squabble and call each other names, because their so called intellect has ummm.. failed.

Personally I think a bit of humour is needed in these type of topics to stop the posters from disapperaing up their own <deleted>...

totster

the sound you just heard was totser's ears popping out of ... so he could write a GREAT POST

[daleyboy]

the sound you just heard was totser's ears popping out of ... so he could write a GREAT POST

Yeah it was good, so good i actually took a screenshot and saved it to disk just in case we never get any more great posts from the man.

Ohh dear sorry my post may of contained smileys, humour, wit and fun and nothing really intelligent so something that maybe isn't allowed in this thread

[English Noodles]

Nice one TP

The problem is that the so called intellectuals want to have their own section where they can show off their knowledge and wisdom, somewhere to mix with other superior minded individuals and take part in complicated 100 page debates on subjects like "mia noi" etc.. In these debates they delight in typing long winded essays where 90% of what they have written is irrelevant and normally based on poor or misinterpreted facts or just wild guesswork, then when they've finally managed to repeat themselves to each other for about 90 pages they start to squabble and call each other names, because their so called intellect has ummm.. failed.

Personally I think a bit of humour is needed in these type of topics to stop the posters from disapperaing up their own <deleted>...

totster

Totster you could have at least broken this post up in to six or seven seperate posts, there was realy no need to cram all six lines in to one post.

Though i must say you summed it up prety well.

Edited June 10, 2006 by English Noodles

[daleyboy]

Sorry wrong thread

Edited June 10, 2006 by daleyboy

[Kerryd]

(now, count the number of replies to this that consist of just a smiley or short, pointless one liners. You know it's going to happen. You can't help yourself. I can see you now trying to decide which smiley would be most appropriate. Go on, DO IT ! You know you wanna...........)

And then you get some posters who labour on to such lengths that people with short attentions spans, like me, forget what the topic was in the first place.

Sorry, Kerry.

Spot on Tip

(I knew you guys wouldn't let me down !)

[quadricorrelator]

I don't think the use of logic is limited to intellectuals (whatever "intellectual" means) or any other group. Good logic hygiene is available for the rest of us to enjoy as well.

I think that is worthwhile to check our posts for valid reasoning if we are trying to have a serious discussion (but not necessarily if we are just joking around). We have a better chance to communicate our point, and a better chance to find the truth, or at least isolate our points of disagreement without hurting each others feelings through personal attacks and sarcasm.

I think it is worthwhile improving our logic skills. I think it is worthwhile spending some effort to learn to identify fallacious reasoning. It is good for ourselves, and it is good for those around us.

The development of logic is one of mankind's great achievements. It has been developing for many hundreds of years. And, it is available to us for free.

Of course, it takes less effort if we don't scrutinize our posts for valid reasoning. And, if we reject logic, then we can't be criticized for fallacious reasoning. But, we may pay a price for this: We lower expectations of ourselves and of others. We lose a chance to better ourselves.

-q

Edited June 14, 2006 by quadricorrelator

[Martin]

Agreed, 'quadricorrelator'.

Self-scruitiny is the essence of self-education---and that is better than being schooled.

[Noel]

I don't think the use of logic is limited to intellectuals (whatever "intellectual" means) or any other group. Good logic hygiene is available for the rest of us to enjoy as well.

-q

Yeah, right!

Your previous post below says a lot about your 'logical' thinking and was s-o-o-o-o-o-o-o 'enjoyable'!

Get some help, and soon...

I am not a perfect poster but i am really focussing on improving. I am not trying to start arguments but wondering why do some posters......

respond to lenghty posts that have a thought out argument with a one line comment?

eg: "The evidence does not support that."

How about sharing it!!!

generalise eveything and everyone?

eg: "You are here for the sex and beer, my friend."

respond to logical comments with responses they do nothing for the topic?

eg: "Is there more to Thailand then sex and beer?? " (seen that 500 times) or, as in a discussion about Thai language, "People here should learn to use English grammar."

when someone disagrees with them and uses a logical argument the response just gets hostile?

"Your idea is idiotic, you would'nt know the real Thailand"

go out of their way to make Thailand appear as backward and all Thais corrupt and stupid?

I mean Thailand is not perfect and discussing the flaws is fine but also realise that every country has flaws. Use comparisons, think about the issue. Would be a joy for all.

The sad thing for me is that a lot of these responses come from people who have 200+ posts. Is that how they got them? It is just sad that many good posts degenerate or good topics can not develop because of things like the above.

Why do people need to do it? Do they not think before posting? I know sometimes I walk the line when I read some responses and want to say something smartassed back but then think what does it contribute to the board. I also know how hard it can be to stick to the original topic because the topic can wind off. There are so many intelligent people here, many make excellent points, and then later resort to one of the above responses!

Should there be an area inside this board that is used for academic discussion. Where comments need to be supported and thought shown. Anyone breaching the above points gets warned and banned from that area? Could it be done or should it be done?

I also bet that there will be some smartass comments made in reply to this post

I share your thinking. I am trying to improve my ability to make valid arguments to do my part.

Sometimes I think there should be a logic test that we must pass before being allowed to post.

I think there are standard sections in logic courses which are designed to train us to recognize fallacious arguments. One such popular book by Irving Copi, is "An Introduction To Logic".

There are websites which list and explain common fallacies we use in everyday arguing. Here is one such website:

http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/skeptic/arguments.html

Here is the list they cover:

Ad Hominem (Argument To The Man)

Affirming The Consequent

Amazing Familiarity

Ambiguous Assertion

Appeal To Anonymous Authority

Appeal To Authority

Appeal To Coincidence

Appeal To Complexity

Appeal To False Authority

Appeal To Force

Appeal To Pity (Appeal to Sympathy, The Galileo Argument)

Appeal To Widespread Belief (Bandwagon Argument, Peer Pressure, Appeal To Common Practice)

Argument By Emotive Language (Appeal To The People)

Argument By Fast Talking

Argument By Generalization

Argument By Gibberish (Bafflement)

Argument By Half Truth (Suppressed Evidence)

Argument By Laziness (Argument By Uninformed Opinion)

Argument By Personal Charm

Argument By Pigheadedness (Doggedness)

Argument By Poetic Language

Argument By Prestigious Jargon

Argument By Question

Argument By Repetition (Argument Ad Nauseam)

Argument by Rhetorical Question

Argument By Scenario

Argument By Selective Observation

Argument By Selective Reading

Argument By Slogan

Argument From Adverse Consequences (Appeal To Fear, Scare Tactics)

Argument From Age (Wisdom of the Ancients)

Argument From Authority

Argument From False Authority

Argument From Small Numbers

Argument From Spurious Similarity

Argument Of The Beard

Argument To The Future

Bad Analogy

Begging The Question (Assuming The Answer, Tautology)

Burden Of Proof

Causal Reductionism (Complex Cause)

Changing The Subject (Digression, Red Herring, Misdirection, False Emphasis)

Cliche Thinking

Common Sense

Complex Question (Tying)

Confusing Correlation And Causation

Disproof By Fallacy

Equivocation

Error Of Fact

Euphemism

Exception That Proves The Rule

Excluded Middle (False Dichotomy, Faulty Dilemma, Bifurcation)

Extended Analogy

Failure To State

Fallacy Of Composition

Fallacy Of Division

Fallacy Of The General Rule

Fallacy Of The Crucial Experiment

False Cause

False Compromise

Genetic Fallacy (Fallacy of Origins, Fallacy of Virtue)

Having Your Cake (Failure To Assert, or Diminished Claim)

Hypothesis Contrary To Fact

Inconsistency

Inflation Of Conflict

Internal Contradiction

Least Plausible Hypothesis

Lies

Meaningless Questions

Misunderstanding The Nature Of Statistics

Moving The Goalposts (Raising The Bar, Argument By Demanding Impossible Perfection)

Needling

Non Sequitur

Not Invented Here

Outdated Information

Pious Fraud

Poisoning The Wells

Psychogenetic Fallacy

Reductio Ad Absurdum

Reductive Fallacy (Oversimplification)

Reifying

Short Term Versus Long Term

Slippery Slope Fallacy (Camel's Nose)

Special Pleading (Stacking The Deck)

Statement Of Conversion

Stolen Concept

Straw Man (Fallacy Of Extension)

Two Wrongs Make A Right (Tu Quoque, You Too)

Weasel Wording

Recently added or modified fallacies:

Ad Hominem (Argument To The Man) modified.

Equivocation modified.

Fallacy Of The Crucial Experiment added.

Needling added.

Pious Fraud added.

Statement Of Conversion added.

[meadish_sweetball]

The Ivory Tower' or the 'Mass Debaters' forum could also work...

There are no flaming problems or one-liners in Thai Language or Computers forums - "idiots" don't even go there.

That is not entirely true, although calmer and more to the point than some other forums, both those forums can get pretty heated on occasion... but they do not attract the same amount of trolls as the others.

[Boon Mee]

Everyone 'trolls' at some point in their day whether it's on an internet forum or in your personal life. Your girlfriend 'troll's when she asks "Do I look fat in this dress?" etc.

It's a part of everyday life although some folks do take it to extremes here with inflamitory posts.

[Totster]

There are no flaming problems or one-liners in Thai Language or Computers forums - "idiots" don't even go there.

Actually.. I go in there quite a bit....

totster

Edited June 14, 2006 by Totster

[ThaiPauly]

Your girlfriend 'troll's when she asks "Do I look fat in this dress?

[/quote

I have never heard a Thai Lady say that

But then I know plenty of Western Women that have

TP