How dare you....

[Asiantravel]

Lack of common courtesy

Which, I explained, may have been perceived by her first on your part when you knocked on the window. Start with a smile and a polite, friendly Sawatdee krab! Repeat if necessary. Did you do that? No.

Courtesy is relative, not absolute as determined by yourself. Thai culture readily accepts not paying close attention to work and instead playing with one's phone, checking the critical Facebook page, putting on makeup, etc. And *kee giat (laziness) is a readily understandable excuse. Certainly most Thais would understand a reluctance to deal w/ rude, stupid farangs of which Pattaya has an excess. International companies or businesses that critically depend on *farang customers work hard on overcoming this cultural trait and it shows, e. g., Starbucks.

is not due to culture - it's due to attitude.

But attitude is partly determined by culture (including your own), as I explained, and can't be considered in isolation from it. You're not yet making progress.

" Thai culture readily accepts not paying close attention to work and instead playing with one's phone, checking the critical Facebook page, putting on makeup, etc. "

Then as a country you can't aspire to be the hub of everything under the sun, but then when it comes to " delivering the goods " fail to provide at least a basic response to customers needs

[Kaoboi Bebobp]

Squashed into a small booth all day in a crowded and unpleasant atmosphere, dealing with gruff and malodorous and sweaty and vile tourists who demand your full and instant attention at the snap of the fingers - ok, she should accept her situation and realise she's in the service industry, but I can understand why she would be somewhat prickly under the circumstances outlined by the OP. Still, like JSixpack (you sweet talker, you), the answer can be found in your own attitude - you can disarm anyone, especially Thais, if you show them you can't be rattled and smile.

Anyway, she might have just dealt with a rude Russian, and probably genuinely didn't have US money.

Regards,

Wit - world renowned charmer.

At TOT (one of many examples) I was at first TOTALLY ignored by an entire roomful of ladies. Not all of them were by any means busy. Nobody wanted to help. Could have stood there all day. But did I want my B3000 or not? Finally I went to one cubicle and gave the smile and Sawatdee krab and a little bow and a Chuay pom dai mai, krab? (Can you help me?) in a pitiful voice. Worked like a charm. Lady ran around for me and took me to the right place and it all went well from there.

Sincere credit to you, sir. I've done the similar super-politeness act because I know it's the only thing that will get me what I want. But there are days in shops and at counters when I am not in a kowtowing mood, which is essentially what we're doing. There's just something wrong about that.

Edited April 10, 2014 by Kaoboi Bebobp

[Munger]

Squashed into a small booth all day in a crowded and unpleasant atmosphere, dealing with gruff and malodorous and sweaty and vile tourists who demand your full and instant attention at the snap of the fingers - ok, she should accept her situation and realise she's in the service industry, but I can understand why she would be somewhat prickly under the circumstances outlined by the OP. Still, like JSixpack (you sweet talker, you), the answer can be found in your own attitude - you can disarm anyone, especially Thais, if you show them you can't be rattled and smile.

Anyway, she might have just dealt with a rude Russian, and probably genuinely didn't have US money.

Regards,

Wit - world renowned charmer.

At TOT (one of many examples) I was at first TOTALLY ignored by an entire roomful of ladies. Not all of them were by any means busy. Nobody wanted to help. Could have stood there all day. But did I want my B3000 or not? Finally I went to one cubicle and gave the smile and Sawatdee krab and a little bow and a Chuay pom dai mai, krab? (Can you help me?) in a pitiful voice. Worked like a charm. Lady ran around for me and took me to the right place and it all went well from there.

The guy goes around giving wais and groveling to Thai staff.

What a fool.

YUP, I would say a foolish, groveling, slobbering, Thai apologist.

[Torrens54]

Unfortunately this is becoming more common in Thailand. I have seen it happening ever so much in the last ten years. It's a shame.

Same as the once "Famously POLITE" Road users in Thailand.

Thirty+ years ago when I first came to Thailand, I was super-impressed with how polite everyone was and used to write about it in my Newspaper Travel Pages and talk about it on Radio and TV.

Not any more, I'm sad to say the vast majority of Thai road users couldn't give a Tinker's Curse, about Road Rules or anyone else using the roads. I frequently tell my wife that as far as courtesy is concerned,in particular with regards to, the drivers of "Red Buses/Cars and Grey Mini Vans," a pig or a buffalo would display better manners than many of them and other road users in CNX, Thais... AND..... Farangs included.

Edited April 10, 2014 by Torrens54

[ZigZagMan]

Thais have gone bitter the last 10 years or so. Not sure if it is because of their exposure to numbers of low class tourists or something deeper.

Thailand has lots of problems and they do seem to like to blame the farang for just about everything.

I suspect a good dose of racism too.

[JSixpack]

Just re-read what you just wrote - I can see being polite, that's what I was brought up.

Gotta be polite according to their standards, pal, not yours. If you want to get what you want with least resistance, that is.

BUT acting pitiful to try to get somebody to do their job seems absurd. I seem to be hearing a lot of excuses for unprofessional and rude behavior.

Aren't we all high and mighty now. Suppose you were a Thai, used to dealing w/ this culture. Think what a different response you'd have made. When in Rome . . . . Thai friend o' mine is dealing w/ the admin of a public uni. Unbelievable! You ain't seen NOTHING. But, all taken in stride. No time to tell that story now . . . . Anyway,

My way: you lose the self-defeating ego, recognize you're not in Kansas anymore, and act polite and humble according to Thai culture--while maintaining a dispassionate sense of humor and noblesse oblige about having to do so. You're immediately recognized as a highly intelligent, respectful, pleasant personage who deserves consideration in a minute or two after a couple of photos are appreciated, makeup adjusted, and a quick glance at a friend's facebook page completed. Having waited patiently that couple minutes for the Thai gatekeeper to accomplish matters of grave importance to her--whose importance you've acknowledged--you leave with your money, a smile, and good feelings all around. You're happy.

Your way: you're immediately confirmed as a pest and told to buzz off with nothing. You leave feeling a deep sense of injustice, discrimination, wounded pride, and self-righteousness. You have to waste a lot more time running around until your mission is finally accomplished. You complain bitterly on an internet forum and double down when your unsuccessful behavior is pointed out. But a chorus of ignoramuses cheer you on, so you remain in stubborn denial. Later, in some other context, exactly the same thing happens to you again and you continue thinking and saying negative things about Thais and Thailand. You're unhappy.

I like my way better, and I learned it the hard way, too. But you just keep running around doing it your way if you wish.

[whatchamacallit]

Just re-read what you just wrote - I can see being polite, that's what I was brought up.

Gotta be polite according to their standards, pal, not yours. If you want to get what you want with least resistance, that is.

BUT acting pitiful to try to get somebody to do their job seems absurd. I seem to be hearing a lot of excuses for unprofessional and rude behavior.

Aren't we all high and mighty now. Suppose you were a Thai, used to dealing w/ this culture. Think what a different response you'd have made. When in Rome . . . . Thai friend o' mine is dealing w/ the admin of a public uni. Unbelievable! You ain't seen NOTHING. But, all taken in stride. No time to tell that story now . . . . Anyway,

My way: you lose the self-defeating ego, recognize you're not in Kansas anymore, and act polite and humble according to Thai culture--while maintaining a dispassionate sense of humor and noblesse oblige about having to do so. You're immediately recognized as a highly intelligent, respectful, pleasant personage who deserves consideration in a minute or two after a couple of photos are appreciated, makeup adjusted, and a quick glance at a friend's facebook page completed. Having waited patiently that couple minutes for the Thai gatekeeper to accomplish matters of grave importance to her--whose importance you've acknowledged--you leave with your money, a smile, and good feelings all around. You're happy.

Your way: you're immediately confirmed as a pest and told to buzz off with nothing. You leave feeling a deep sense of injustice, discrimination, wounded pride, and self-righteousness. You have to waste a lot more time running around until your mission is finally accomplished. You complain bitterly on an internet forum and double down when your unsuccessful behavior is pointed out. But a chorus of ignoramuses cheer you on, so you remain in stubborn denial. Later, in some other context, exactly the same thing happens to you again and you continue thinking and saying negative things about Thais and Thailand. You're unhappy.

I like my way better, and I learned it the hard way, too. But you just keep running around doing it your way if you wish.

Polite to their standard??? WHAT The Blank IS THAT RUBBISH??? You mean playing with her tablet while working and ignoring customers and giving them the evil eyes because we are disturbing their precious time is "their standard" of polite?? Stop making excuses for bad service, laziness, and bad attitude. Edited April 10, 2014 by whatchamacallit

[JSixpack]

Just re-read what you just wrote - I can see being polite, that's what I was brought up.

Gotta be polite according to their standards, pal, not yours. If you want to get what you want with least resistance, that is.

BUT acting pitiful to try to get somebody to do their job seems absurd. I seem to be hearing a lot of excuses for unprofessional and rude behavior.

Aren't we all high and mighty now. Suppose you were a Thai, used to dealing w/ this culture. Think what a different response you'd have made. When in Rome . . . . Thai friend o' mine is dealing w/ the admin of a public uni. Unbelievable! You ain't seen NOTHING. But, all taken in stride. No time to tell that story now . . . . Anyway,

My way: you lose the self-defeating ego, recognize you're not in Kansas anymore, and act polite and humble according to Thai culture--while maintaining a dispassionate sense of humor and noblesse oblige about having to do so. You're immediately recognized as a highly intelligent, respectful, pleasant personage who deserves consideration in a minute or two after a couple of photos are appreciated, makeup adjusted, and a quick glance at a friend's facebook page completed. Having waited patiently that couple minutes for the Thai gatekeeper to accomplish matters of grave importance to her--whose importance you've acknowledged--you leave with your money, a smile, and good feelings all around. You're happy.

Your way: you're immediately confirmed as a pest and told to buzz off with nothing. You leave feeling a deep sense of injustice, discrimination, wounded pride, and self-righteousness. You have to waste a lot more time running around until your mission is finally accomplished. You complain bitterly on an internet forum and double down when your unsuccessful behavior is pointed out. But a chorus of ignoramuses cheer you on, so you remain in stubborn denial. Later, in some other context, exactly the same thing happens to you again and you continue thinking and saying negative things about Thais and Thailand. You're unhappy.

I like my way better, and I learned it the hard way, too. But you just keep running around doing it your way if you wish.

Polite to their standard??? <deleted> IS THAT RUBBISH??? You mean playing with her tablet while working and ignoring customers and giving them the evil eyes because we are disturbing their precious time is "their standard" of polite??

Enjoying being unhappy? As I said, first thing to learn is, no matter what, you start with a friendly smile and a polite Sawatdee krab!

Who's to decide if that opening is RUBBISH? You? Other farangs? Or the Thais themselves here in their own country? Now, who knows Thai culture best? Think about it. Don't believe me--go ask some Thais.

After you master your first basic lesson--SO difficult--you're ready for further progress. Struggle on!

[Rimmer]

Some inflammatory posts amounting to a personal attack have been removed also the quoted replies to them

In using Thai Visa I agree:

7) Respect fellow members by posting in a civil manner: do not launch personal attacks, or be hateful or insulting towards other members, ie No flaming

[JSixpack]

But he got served, left a contented man and probably had a very nice day, thank you very much.

with no dignity left :-)

With all my dignity left--and my money. Internally I was having a laugh. It was a kind of obsequious mock pitiful actually--but I don't think they could tell that or if so thought it cute. I compare it to the occasional "yes, dear" you need to say for the sake of the peace (pun intended) w/ a wife or girlfriend. It's merely gamesmanship. The point is to take conscious control of the situation to get what you want ASAP with least effort. Otherwise, they win and you lose. Regarded so, it's actually aggressive.

Certainly the TOT ladies saw no indignity at all and went from ignoring me and hoping I'd go away to smiling and wanting to help as much as they could. One personally escorted to me to a desk downstairs to fill out a request form; another called me as soon as my check was ready--and it was ready in two weeks, not four; and going back in to pick it up was also pleasant w/ a helpful explanation that I'd have to deposit the check, not cash it.

I wouldn't have believed I'd get such good service in a place I'd dreaded to visit.

The sales assistants at Home Pro are justly notorious for their utter indifference. A few weeks ago I needed a particular item, couldn't find it anywhere, and needed help. Used exactly the same technique on the nearest salesgirl and immediately got her running around for me asking everybody until she found it. Escorted me to the cashier, whom I politely greeted; I paid, thanked both ladies, we all smiled, and we left one another on a happy note. No complaints here.

Edited April 10, 2014 by JSixpack

[AntiWinter]

I'm sorry but all this "we should respect them because we are in their country and adapt to their culture" is a load of crap.

I spent to many years trying that aproach of "wai"ing them and speaking polite Thai to them and it makes no difference what so ever with this particular type of employee.

I do however agree that talking with the common of even elite "Thai Paople" in a general matter or out in the provinces etc that this is a good way to go but in THIS case, if the gal can't adapt to working in a customer relations job then she should get a job swinging from a pole. Especially in a job where the Thai is working at a job that involves working with foreigners then it is THEY who should adapt to US. I'm sure her employer would agree.

Oh well now the OP knows not to go to that place any more.

[bmanly]

It's the attitude of the staff member itself that's the problem. Put it simply, I always exchange money at Yenjit Money Changer, they never turn their backs to you, never ignore you and always try to help you. Bad staff with bad bosses = bad service and I never go back.

[tropo]

Wouldn't you love to be her employer.

Next time film it and send to the bank boss.

In fact...someone should make a project of it.

When she says cannot for $US ask how about Pounds, Oz$ etc and go through the entire list.....finish with Thai baht ....or a big mac

I don't think they're actually allowed to sell foreign currency legally. Back a bit I went around quite a few moneychangers to buy USD and it wasn't easy.

The TT Moneychangers (bright yellow), are always happy to oblige and give good rates. I wouldn't expect it from a small booth in a shopping mall.

Edited April 10, 2014 by tropo

[tropo]

At TOT (one of many examples) I was at first TOTALLY ignored by an entire roomful of ladies. Not all of them were by any means busy. Nobody wanted to help. Could have stood there all day. But did I want my B3000 or not? Finally I went to one cubicle and gave the smile and Sawatdee krab and a little bow and a Chuay pom dai mai, krab? (Can you help me?) in a pitiful voice. Worked like a charm. Lady ran around for me and took me to the right place and it all went well from there.

LOL. You need to be quite pro-active and assertive to get customer service there.

[tropo]

Chill out man. Poor command of English can give an appearance of rudeness. I don't know why we expect Thais to adopt our standard of manners in their country or for every Thai to smile at every customer. She's a money changer and not in the entertainment industry.

The reason people expect better customer service is because of the LOS label. Most of us who have been here awhile know better.

I think in the OP's case the knock on the window startled her... and she probably hates her job, being stuck in a tiny cubicle all day... and she's probably sick of trying to understand foreigners speaking dozens of different languages., Frustration got the better of her. BTW, don't anyone come along here and call me a "Thai apologist".... we're talking basic human nature here. For all we know she was going to quit her job that day. I'd like to see how smiley any of you would be stuck in that cubicle all day for a salary as tiny as the space. It must be a nightmare. I wonder what their staff turnover is.

Edited April 10, 2014 by tropo

[tropo]

How long do you think the staff in a 7/Eleven would last with that attitude?

A lonnnnnnnnnnnnnng time mate. That's a bad comparison, because 7Elevens and Family Marts are jam packed with rude and impatient staff with zero tolerance for any negativity from foreigners. Try complaining to an outwardly friendly 7Eleven staff member about something.... you'll wish you didn't..

[tropo]

But attitude is partly determined by culture (including your own), as I explained, and can't be considered in isolation from it. You're not yet making progress.

Absolutely, and going a step further, reaction to the attitude is also a cultural thing. For example, if my Filipino wife was treated in the same way she would have just walked away and not given it a second thought, unlike the OP who was so upset he had to go home and make a special thread about the incident. My wife is just not as demanding when it comes to service, which is a cultural thing. Things that upset many foreigners don't bother her at all. She also treats the staff members as people and not servants, which makes a big difference to her attitude toward their attitude. If treated brashly she would just walk away and not say a word.

There is no wrong or right when you're crossing cultural borders. Sure, the owners of these businesses want their staff to behave in a more foreigner friendly manner than they may be accustomed to, but they don't want to pay foreign wages. I bet if they paid the moneychanger staff the same salary as someone doing the same job in the OP's home country, he would have been met with all manner of fake hospitality.

[tropo]

Just re-read what you just wrote - I can see being polite, that's what I was brought up.

Gotta be polite according to their standards, pal, not yours. If you want to get what you want with least resistance, that is.

BUT acting pitiful to try to get somebody to do their job seems absurd. I seem to be hearing a lot of excuses for unprofessional and rude behavior.

Aren't we all high and mighty now. Suppose you were a Thai, used to dealing w/ this culture. Think what a different response you'd have made. When in Rome . . . . Thai friend o' mine is dealing w/ the admin of a public uni. Unbelievable! You ain't seen NOTHING. But, all taken in stride. No time to tell that story now . . . . Anyway,

My way: you lose the self-defeating ego, recognize you're not in Kansas anymore, and act polite and humble according to Thai culture--while maintaining a dispassionate sense of humor and noblesse oblige about having to do so. You're immediately recognized as a highly intelligent, respectful, pleasant personage who deserves consideration in a minute or two after a couple of photos are appreciated, makeup adjusted, and a quick glance at a friend's facebook page completed. Having waited patiently that couple minutes for the Thai gatekeeper to accomplish matters of grave importance to her--whose importance you've acknowledged--you leave with your money, a smile, and good feelings all around. You're happy.

Your way: you're immediately confirmed as a pest and told to buzz off with nothing. You leave feeling a deep sense of injustice, discrimination, wounded pride, and self-righteousness. You have to waste a lot more time running around until your mission is finally accomplished. You complain bitterly on an internet forum and double down when your unsuccessful behavior is pointed out. But a chorus of ignoramuses cheer you on, so you remain in stubborn denial. Later, in some other context, exactly the same thing happens to you again and you continue thinking and saying negative things about Thais and Thailand. You're unhappy.

I like my way better, and I learned it the hard way, too. But you just keep running around doing it your way if you wish.

Very well put. By far and away the number one post of the thread!

The OP doesn't have a clue how to conduct even basic business in Thailand.

You come to Thailand - you change. Expecting the Thais to change is ridiculous beyond words, and a sign of a very naive traveller.

He could have said "excuse me", but he had to knock on the window.

Edited April 10, 2014 by tropo

[whatchamacallit]

But attitude is partly determined by culture (including your own), as I explained, and can't be considered in isolation from it. You're not yet making progress.

Absolutely, and going a step further, reaction to the attitude is also a cultural thing. For example, if my Filipino wife was treated in the same way she would have just walked away and not given it a second thought, unlike the OP who was so upset he had to go home and make a special thread about the incident. My wife is just not as demanding when it comes to service, which is a cultural thing. Things that upset many foreigners don't bother her at all. She also treats the staff members as people and not servants, which makes a big difference to her attitude toward their attitude. If treated brashly she would just walk away and not say a word.

There is no wrong or right when you're crossing cultural borders. Sure, the owners of these businesses want their staff to behave in a more foreigner friendly manner than they may be accustomed to, but they don't want to pay foreign wages. I bet if they paid the moneychanger staff the same salary as someone doing the same job in the OP's home country, he would have been met with all manner of fake hospitality.

First of all - no I didn't knock on the glass partition so hard that it startled her - it's more like a gentle tap to get her attention and yes I said excuse me while I was knocking. Your explanation about being stuck in a small cubicle with such meager salary sounds reasonable. FYI I am Asian like your wife born and raised in this part if the world - and no I am not trying to force my values on anyone - I thought being polite, and common courtesy should be universal. Edited April 10, 2014 by whatchamacallit

[rhythmworx]

Should have reciprocated and gave her the middle finger/flipped the bird.

[joepattaya1961]

The poor girl was probably trying to update the exchange-rates, using her tablet......just another part of her job

[ZigZagMan]

Oh, The hardships of working in an airconditioned money exchange cubicle.

How could anybody expect her to be pleasant under those circumstances?

Can't even conjure up a good fake Thai smile?

I hope you reported her to the boss.

[tropo]

First of all - no I didn't knock on the glass partition so hard that it startled her - it's more like a gentle tap to get her attention and yes I said excuse me while I was knocking. Your explanation about being stuck in a small cubicle with such meager salary sounds reasonable. FYI I am Asian like your wife born and raised in this part if the world - and no I am not trying to force my values on anyone - I thought being polite, and common courtesy should be universal.

I was using my wife as one example of how people differ in attitude depending on nationality and origin., Asia is a huge area with many different cultures. Where exactly were you brought up?... because if you're Filipino and brought up in the Philippines I would be very surprised at your reasoning....

... because every country and nationality will have a different take on "common courtesy" and "polite" and there is no universal code. One nationality's behaviour can quite easily be construed as rude by another.

Let me use a few examples to illustrate this.

In Pattaya the Russians are a very good example, You might consider their behaviour rude whereas their own countrymen will not. What you consider "common courtesy" is for them uncommon, unusual and probably even annoying.

Some nationalities will offer a straight "no" as an answer to a request, whereas other nationalities would consider this rude and require "no thank you". My wife had to learn "no thank you" as it wasn't natural for her.

Here's a funny one from the Philippines. When the family wakes up in the morning they do not say good morning to everyone in the house. My insistence on saying good morning to everyone was considered weird and uncomfortable by the family and I eventually gave it up as a bad habit. I actually prefer their way.

IMO many Western nations have taken politeness and "common courtesy" to ridiculous levels and expect far too much from natives of other countries.

Chinese (and others) will just push past you and think nothing of it while a Westerner will be getting all upset due to the absence of excuse me's.

Are they being rude? They don't think so.

If you wish to live happy in Thailand, as JSixPack suggests, you need to let go of at least some of your Western expectations or traditions. It has nothing to do with honour or dignity - it's just commonsense for easy living.

[ZigZagMan]

First of all - no I didn't knock on the glass partition so hard that it startled her - it's more like a gentle tap to get her attention and yes I said excuse me while I was knocking. Your explanation about being stuck in a small cubicle with such meager salary sounds reasonable. FYI I am Asian like your wife born and raised in this part if the world - and no I am not trying to force my values on anyone - I thought being polite, and common courtesy should be universal.

I was using my wife as one example of how people differ in attitude depending on nationality and origin., Asia is a huge area with many different cultures. Where exactly were you brought up?... because if you're Filipino and brought up in the Philippines I would be very surprised at your reasoning....

... because every country and nationality will have a different take on "common courtesy" and "polite" and there is no universal code. One nationality's behaviour can quite easily be construed as rude by another.

Let me use a few examples to illustrate this.

In Pattaya the Russians are a very good example, You might consider their behaviour rude whereas their own countrymen will not. What you consider "common courtesy" is for them uncommon, unusual and probably even annoying.

Some nationalities will offer a straight "no" as an answer to a request, whereas other nationalities would consider this rude and require "no thank you". My wife had to learn "no thank you" as it wasn't natural for her.

Here's a funny one from the Philippines. When the family wakes up in the morning they do not say good morning to everyone in the house. My insistence on saying good morning to everyone was considered weird and uncomfortable by the family and I eventually gave it up as a bad habit. I actually prefer their way.

IMO many Western nations have taken politeness and "common courtesy" to ridiculous levels and expect far too much from natives of other countries.

Chinese (and others) will just push past you and think nothing of it while a Westerner will be getting all upset due to the absence of excuse me's.

Are they being rude? They don't think so.

If you wish to live happy in Thailand, as JSixPack suggests, you need to let go of at least some of your Western expectations or traditions. It has nothing to do with honour or dignity - it's just commonsense for easy living.

She should have considered the cultural difficulties when applying for a job at an INTERNATIONAL money EXCHANGE.

She hates her job and the customers.

Time for a new career.

Maybe there is a place that hires rude people to play on facebook all day?

[whatchamacallit]

First of all - no I didn't knock on the glass partition so hard that it startled her - it's more like a gentle tap to get her attention and yes I said excuse me while I was knocking. Your explanation about being stuck in a small cubicle with such meager salary sounds reasonable. FYI I am Asian like your wife born and raised in this part if the world - and no I am not trying to force my values on anyone - I thought being polite, and common courtesy should be universal.

I was using my wife as one example of how people differ in attitude depending on nationality and origin., Asia is a huge area with many different cultures. Where exactly were you brought up?... because if you're Filipino and brought up in the Philippines I would be very surprised at your reasoning....

... because every country and nationality will have a different take on "common courtesy" and "polite" and there is no universal code. One nationality's behaviour can quite easily be construed as rude by another.

Let me use a few examples to illustrate this.

In Pattaya the Russians are a very good example, You might consider their behaviour rude whereas their own countrymen will not. What you consider "common courtesy" is for them uncommon, unusual and probably even annoying.

Some nationalities will offer a straight "no" as an answer to a request, whereas other nationalities would consider this rude and require "no thank you". My wife had to learn "no thank you" as it wasn't natural for her.

Here's a funny one from the Philippines. When the family wakes up in the morning they do not say good morning to everyone in the house. My insistence on saying good morning to everyone was considered weird and uncomfortable by the family and I eventually gave it up as a bad habit. I actually prefer their way.

IMO many Western nations have taken politeness and "common courtesy" to ridiculous levels and expect far too much from natives of other countries.

Chinese (and others) will just push past you and think nothing of it while a Westerner will be getting all upset due to the absence of excuse me's.

Are they being rude? They don't think so.

If you wish to live happy in Thailand, as JSixPack suggests, you need to let go of at least some of your Western expectations or traditions. It has nothing to do with honour or dignity - it's just commonsense for easy living.

Thank you for your explanation. No I am not Filipino - but I have many Filipino friends who would not tolerate such blatant rudeness. Maybe I fail to see the connection which makes it okay and acceptable to do personal stuff while working then be angry when disturbed by a customer needing your attention. Ask your wife - doing personal stuff while working is not acceptable even in the Philippines.

[tropo]

She should have considered the cultural difficulties when applying for a job at an INTERNATIONAL money EXCHANGE.

She hates her job and the customers.

Time for a new career.

Maybe there is a place that hires rude people to play on facebook all day?

For starters, it's not a career, it's a job. She will soon leave it and another person who also hates the job will take over and spend all day on Facebook or Candy Crush... and this will keep going on and on ad infinitum.

Perhaps the next person will do a better job despite the distractions, perhaps not, but there's no way you're going to find staff for 300 odd baht per day to give you full undivided attention and not have some distractions.

If I was her boss I wouldn't take away her distractions. I would just try to entice her to pay a bit more attention to what's going on outside her booth and not bark at customers.

You guys need to chill out. I'm really glad I don't work for any of you.

[Munger]

First of all - no I didn't knock on the glass partition so hard that it startled her - it's more like a gentle tap to get her attention and yes I said excuse me while I was knocking. Your explanation about being stuck in a small cubicle with such meager salary sounds reasonable. FYI I am Asian like your wife born and raised in this part if the world - and no I am not trying to force my values on anyone - I thought being polite, and common courtesy should be universal.

I was using my wife as one example of how people differ in attitude depending on nationality and origin., Asia is a huge area with many different cultures. Where exactly were you brought up?... because if you're Filipino and brought up in the Philippines I would be very surprised at your reasoning....

... because every country and nationality will have a different take on "common courtesy" and "polite" and there is no universal code. One nationality's behaviour can quite easily be construed as rude by another.

Let me use a few examples to illustrate this.

In Pattaya the Russians are a very good example, You might consider their behaviour rude whereas their own countrymen will not. What you consider "common courtesy" is for them uncommon, unusual and probably even annoying.

Some nationalities will offer a straight "no" as an answer to a request, whereas other nationalities would consider this rude and require "no thank you". My wife had to learn "no thank you" as it wasn't natural for her.

Here's a funny one from the Philippines. When the family wakes up in the morning they do not say good morning to everyone in the house. My insistence on saying good morning to everyone was considered weird and uncomfortable by the family and I eventually gave it up as a bad habit. I actually prefer their way.

IMO many Western nations have taken politeness and "common courtesy" to ridiculous levels and expect far too much from natives of other countries.

Chinese (and others) will just push past you and think nothing of it while a Westerner will be getting all upset due to the absence of excuse me's.

Are they being rude? They don't think so.

If you wish to live happy in Thailand, as JSixPack suggests, you need to let go of at least some of your Western expectations or traditions. It has nothing to do with honour or dignity - it's just commonsense for easy living.

She should have considered the cultural difficulties when applying for a job at an INTERNATIONAL money EXCHANGE.

She hates her job and the customers.

Time for a new career.

Maybe there is a place that hires rude people to play on facebook all day?

YUP, correct, and for the many Thai apologists here, what if the customer was a Thai and not a farang ?

[bmanly]

YUP, correct, and for the many Thai apologists here, what if the customer was a Thai and not a farang ?

If it was a Thai the end result would have been the same, it's just that the Thai customer wouldn't worry about it. The Thai customer would just move on and go elsewhere and not give it a second thought.

[JSixpack]

I'm sorry but all this "we should respect them because we are in their country and adapt to their culture" is a load of crap.

You can think that, no problem. Who would know? But it's irrelevant. It's what you say and do that counts, no matter what you may think privately. And thinking often begins to conform to actions, as any behaviorist will tell you.

I spent to many years trying that aproach of "wai"ing them and speaking polite Thai to them and it makes no difference what so ever with this particular type of employee.

But you don't know in this case whether it would have worked or not. You're not certain what type of employee she really is--or how she could be if you took control and pressed the right buttons.

I never wai. I don't do it well and I fear I'd mess it up and it'd be inappropriate. Do it wrong and in an inappropriate circumstance (as I see commonly) and you confirm their worst suspicions that you're really an idiot.

You're right: polite, friendly behavior doesn't always work--in any country. Doesn't always work even in Japan, I assure you. But, it should be at least tried first here in Asia. You might still win over a tough case w/ a bit more persistence, using Thai laziness against them. It becomes too much work to fight against your niceness. It's just easier to realize that you're actually a highly intelligent, respectful, understanding person worthy of consideration--and then feel comfortable. Thais are rather easily worn down, if you can get them to listen to you.

So, if a polite, friendly Sawatdee krab (with good pronunciation) doesn't get a polite response back, I'll often follow up with a Sabai dee mai krab? ("Are you feeling well?"), with a slight smile but a concerned look as if I might be truly worried she's physically ill. (Funny really.) And the answer Sabai dee, ka! improves the mood markedly. If she answers Mai sabai ka! I'll solicitously inquire as to the reason, express sympathy, and ask about seeing a doctor or taking some medicine. If it's a cold, I'll suggest taking some Tiffy cold medicine, only 10 baht. Usually gets a laugh.

Another story, kinda long, if you're interested: using persistence successfully on a sales assistant in the 3BB office.

I sat down in front of this lady as she was hiding behind a monitor enjoying a social conversation on her phone. I was an interruption, and she absolutely did NOT want to deal with me. Friendly greeting ignored. Probably used to dealing w/ idiots. Would NOT let me apply for 3BB service, cut me off and told me to check if anybody in my area already has 3BB, FIRST. Well, she could have just checked that herself right then. And I already knew people around me are using 3BB. Totally ridiculous!

But, never show anger, annoyance, or superiority. I said I'd check and come back and thanked her. Came back in a couple days when out shopping anyway, gave her a polite, friendly greeting, said I'd checked as she'd advised, and yes, there is indeed 3BB in my area. Could I please apply?

She now recognized me and warmed up considerably, asked me how long I'd lived in Thailand--and started being helpful, esp. as I had my passport and money ready. Said I'd get service in a week. Week went past, nothing happened. I'd have been shocked--shocked--if it'd gone smoothly according to schedule. TiT.

I went back, gave the polite greeting, and acted not angry but merely disappointed, a little hurt and puzzled about my lack of service. Internet is important, na. I had called the 3BB support number and they didn't help poor me. Could she help? She checked and then sincerely apologized! Good show, very convincing. Told me they'd get right on it. I waited another 4 days or so, nothing happened. Went back to the 3BB office, smiled, and by this time we were just totally comfortable together and she was starting to look, well, pretty good.

Now I had to politely explain that I'd have to cancel my application if I didn't get service TODAY, because it was time to renew my contract with my other ISP--or not. TODAY. And I showed her my receipt from my other service. After all, it'd been 2 weeks. She apologized again, got on the phone to a tech and told me to go home and wait. It'd be done today. Sure enough, it got fixed in a couple of hours and worked well. Then, SHE made a point of calling me to ask me if everything was OK--she didn't want me to cancel. She was so nice. We ended w/ good feelings.

So now I've got a once-difficult lady on my side there in the 3BB office. If I have a problem, we're going to have pleasant meeting and she's going solve it.

Especially in a job where the Thai is working at a job that involves working with foreigners then it is THEY who should adapt to US. I'm sure her employer would agree.

This could be argued but in any case you do have to consider the context. The bank is not an international bank but a Thai bank, a big bank (not a little family business), mostly doing business w/ Thais. This particular exchange booth probably isn't making a lot of money for the bank. You can't pay anyone much to suffer in that low-level, unappreciated job--being a monkey in cage at Tukcom day after day, targeted by Russians, Germans, Chinese, and Englishmen speaking dialects. Any Thai who's a master at international relations can do much, much better for herself. Realistically, now, what can you expect? You'd be lucky to get great service there. You might, but you'd better expect--a lady who doesn't much like her job and may be having a bad day after that Russian. Plan for the latter case.

There's what should be, what we'd like (Japanese service by staff speaking English perfectly with Received Pronunciation), and then there's what is. Me, I'd work w/ that exchange booth lady first and see if I couldn't win her over before I spent time looking for another booth. And what's the point of getting angry?

Edited April 11, 2014 by JSixpack

[ARGUSEYE]

What I miss in this discussion is that nobody pointed out the difference yet between Pattaya Thais and other, "normal" Thais.

In the provinces with no or little Farang exposure the locals are as nice and polite as they have ever been. I go a lot in - between small - town northern Thailand and Pattaya.... it's as if you are in a different world.

And by the way, many up - country Thais also consider Pattaya Thais impolite!