Whats better, teaching in Thailand, or teaching in China?

[Iwantto]

Ive got a job offer in China for 12,000 RMB(?) per month in a big city... Im a pretty young guy, I enjoy my free time at clubs and chasing women.... Currently in Chiang Mai. Just wondering if its just as fun in China? I really love the clubs here in Chiang Mai, live bands, everyone just having a good time, really chill, and of course, most girls are very approachable. Ive been searching the web but cant find much info. The job is great, just around 50 working hours per month, the salary is also quite high.... But, like most of you, were not teaching in Thailand because of the money.... Its our way of living here. What do you guys think? The location is Shenzhen.

[Donnie Brasco]

Most pretty young guys . . . . . . (Umph)

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Brianboru]

I know of people working there and are making 4000 euro a month with all expenses paid, and free flights home etc. But I believe their working there for the money and the career prospects, so if that is what your after, china is a much better place to earn money teaching.

But...

I would not like to work there as I believe their working regime is military style, but I could be wrong, and this is only my opinion.

Good Luck and if you do decide to move, you can always return.

Edited April 10, 2014 by Brianboru

[sirchai]

You might start here:

http://forum.virtualtourist.com/

P.S. I'm happy when I don't see Chinese people, so why traveling to such a weird country? You can't eat money.

[masuk]

I'm not impressed by the lack of courtesy shown by the Chinese. It's often a matter of 'get out of my way or I'll run you down', be it a zebra crossing or a wide footpath which electric bikes with side cars 'share'.

One argument is that there are so many kids from one-child families, they're just not used to sharing anything.

The plus side is that the transport system is second to none. The high speed underground trains in the bigger cities run at 1 minute intervals, but crowded. High speed trains are great, but not cheap. Buses are good, if only you can understand the timetables.

Schools usually pay for air fares, documentation such as visas, a room, meals on campus, and a fair salary.

Sadly, Thailand cannot offer any of this, and you must pay all the way, and tolerate mini buses still running on diesel, and a barely adequate salary.

You need to balance the people and culture and give me Thailand anytime. Weather-wise, remember that China is perishing cold in the winter, nothing at all like our "mini ice age" in Chiang Mai this winter.

The level of spoken English in China amongst the students seemed much better than in Thailand.

[nonthaburial]

Shenzhen is a vibrant city literally bordering Hong Kong. However, and being blunt 12k RMB a month is attractive as pocket money but no where near the requirement if you have to pay your own rent etc.

I know a lot of teachers in China, and their statements on teaching here are almost all the same. Teaching in China is great as the kids want to learn. But ensure that you get the school to comply fully with visa regulations and make sure you get a multi entry so as you can skip across the border at any time you do wish to.

As for nightlife Shenzhen has the lot.so no sweat there.

[Iwantto]

From what Ive heard... 12000 is quite good, and much higher than the general population...

How about the girls? As approachable as the Thai girls?

[Scott]

I lived in Hong Kong for a number of years and my work took me to China for prolonged stretches, that was back in the very late 80's and 90's when China was not yet capitalistic. The public manners of the people were just as bad then as I presume they are now. Farting, spitting, picking your nose, scratching your privates was all pretty widely tolerated without a second thought. Pushing people out of the way was also common.

People are much, much more polite to the people they know and to family members. Their courtesies are saved for people that they view as important, I guess.

Unfortunately, I got used to the behavior and when I moved to Thailand, I had a real adjustment problem.

[nonthaburial]

From what Ive heard... 12000 is quite good, and much higher than the general population...

How about the girls? As approachable as the Thai girls?

I am sorry I disagree with you. I actually live in the area and have done for over four years. Your stated figure may be higher than the general low level population, but you are not in that category, you are a foreigner, your tastes are different your life style is different your accommodation requirements are different.

Assuming you have to pay your own accommodation, which will be your home and castle I personally would not share it with three or four others, a simple furnished one bedroom apartment in a relatively comfortable area will set you back possibly 4-5k a month, a beer at a western style bar will probably be anything up to 50rmb a pint, add on to these, visa costs if you have to pay for your own, electric and water etc, I think you will struggle.

Are you a fully certified teacher ? If you are then you do have a limited amount of leverage with your school but I can also tell you that Shenzheen is"home" for many foreign teachers, primarily Filipina. Why don't you do a search for Filipina Teachers in Shenzhen, you might just find a few wee nuggets of information.

As for Chinese girls being approachable, hmmmm, due to the Chinese culture and family strengths, they are relatively conservative they are also seen to be materialistic, but I do feel that on your salary, there may not be too much of an interest in you. And also realise that there are many Chinese girls working in Shenzhen who would be on a higher salary than you. It's interesting to note that Chinese workers are very much migrant labour. They go to the cities where the jobs are available, and I am sure they wouldn't move away from their families for a peanut salary.

When I first started work in China, as an engineer not teacher my salary was 35k a month, with 6k a month allowance for accommodation and free visas, and I was classified as a "low end" foreigner.

[Iwantto]

So you were making 41,000 and that was low end??? That is quite shocking for me... From the forums Ive read about working as a teacher in China.... Most people are quite happy with 12,000... And Ive never actually read of anyone making over 25,000, that would be EXTREMELY well qualified. This is why I was in the belief that 12,000 was quite good.... A lot of people I see post salaries of around 9,000 or 10,000 and are happy. I'll have to do more research for sure!

[squarethecircle]

Shenzhen and the other east coast cities are nice but expensive...12000 is decent salary for them...you won't be bored in Shenzhen, and I find the expats in China tend to be more "normal", as if China sets a higher standard for people it lets in, or the "squirrels" head elsewhere. I'd say "go for it", and ignore the poster who said girls won't be interested in you at a 12000 rmb salary. Who would be interested in such a superficial woman to begin with?

[how241]

Please keep us updated . thanks

[Bangkok45]

I would recommend Vietnam if your primary concerns are making good money and also have a good time.

Just came back from China to visit friends who teaches in schools and universities there. In terms of cost of living what you are offered is not much for a quality lifestyle of your choice.

However, a friend of mine who teaches in a university in Hainan makes less than what you were offered but the lodgings that was provided for him is really something. A whole 3 bedroom apartment with a rooftop garden to boot. Simply beautiful on the island but nothing much in terms of entertaiment.

Vietnam definitely pays way better and the cost of living is lower than China. The girls are much much prettier and friendly.

One friend just relocated to teach in Hanoi. He is paid US15 an hour and he works only 4 hrs a day, 4 days a week and he is much happier.

Consider it!

[Greg Nixon]

I do not know Shenzhen but I have taught in China - grade 10 English immersion. There are Canadian curriculum schools using English Immersion in China which pay very high wages compared to Chinese teachers. You must have a degree and a Canadian teaching certificate.

The students are great. They work till 10 at night studying which makes the job quite easy. The students will love you if you respect them. The night life is beyond compare and Chinese women want you as much as Thai women. The exchange rate is not as good but 12000 RMB is a good salary but not the best. You will have no trouble living on that salary. You will have many opportunities to subsidise your income with additional teaching jobs. I worked 4 hours/day for $ 18000 RMB/month.

The downside is the hard resources are scarce - no teacher stores. The schools seem to have little for paper or art resources. Photocopying is good but centralised. The Chinese government takes ownership of children in High School and parents cannot excuse their children easily. If there is a holiday you will have to teach Saturday and even Sunday to make up for it. The other downside was the Chinese 'assistants" teaching a shadow Chinese curriculum that they denied doing and thus overloading the children. 10 of my 12 students are now at very good established Universities in Canada so it did not hurt them significantly.

If I were to do it again i would make better use of the large format video screen in the classroom and use the internet that it was connected to in order to employ the excellent resources of youtube. Any topic any subject and some very good teachers.

There is unlimited English teaching jobs in China because the Chinese government has mandated that children will take English classes from the age of 5 up. There are many English only schools in China. Many Chinese would love to emigrate and they see this as one way to do it.

[Greg Nixon]

Oh by the way there are 1000 Chinese millionaire women in Beijing who are considered not to be marriageable because they are not virgins and over the age of 30. You can easily find women interested in you on Chineselovelinks.com . Be careful though because many just want to emigrate. A good strategy to employ if you want to marry is to have them agree to stay in China. There are many Chinese women who can speak excellent English. Conversational Chinese is a little easier than Thai because basically the grammar is the same.

You can learn Chinese on livemocha.com. and connect with Chinese women at the same time.

[nonthaburial]

I do not know Shenzhen but I have taught in China - grade 10 English immersion. There are Canadian curriculum schools using English Immersion in China which pay very high wages compared to Chinese teachers. You must have a degree and a Canadian teaching certificate.

The students are great. They work till 10 at night studying which makes the job quite easy. The students will love you if you respect them. The night life is beyond compare and Chinese women want you as much as Thai women. The exchange rate is not as good but 12000 RMB is a good salary but not the best. You will have no trouble living on that salary. You will have many opportunities to subsidise your income with additional teaching jobs. I worked 4 hours/day for $ 18000 RMB/month.

The downside is the hard resources are scarce - no teacher stores. The schools seem to have little for paper or art resources. Photocopying is good but centralised. The Chinese government takes ownership of children in High School and parents cannot excuse their children easily. If there is a holiday you will have to teach Saturday and even Sunday to make up for it. The other downside was the Chinese 'assistants" teaching a shadow Chinese curriculum that they denied doing and thus overloading the children. 10 of my 12 students are now at very good established Universities in Canada so it did not hurt them significantly.

If I were to do it again i would make better use of the large format video screen in the classroom and use the internet that it was connected to in order to employ the excellent resources of youtube. Any topic any subject and some very good teachers.

There is unlimited English teaching jobs in China because the Chinese government has mandated that children will take English classes from the age of 5 up. There are many English only schools in China. Many Chinese would love to emigrate and they see this as one way to do it.

Two points here Greg, the first being that YouTube is banned in China and so are VPNs. Of course you can get a VPN but using it to show a Chinese classroom YouTube would not be very bright. The second point is that Shenzhen, as mentioned earlier borders HK and is described as one of the most expensive cities outside of Beijing and Shanghai.

[EASYDOGG]

From knowing a Chinese teacher who taught in Thailand and obviously went to school in China, she was shocked how Thai kids run the classrooms in the LOS. From a teaching perspective, I'd say school is set up better in China and with order and discipline, so you may be able to achieve more professionally if you taught there.

[mushroomdave]

Well some say China is worse than Taiwan in most areas and I taught in Taiwan for 14.5 years (just finished and moved here last August/2013) They just churn out the kids like a mill and there is no appreciation from bosses for your work/hours you put in. (and they try to screw you over ALL THE TIME!!) The people are the rudest I have ever came across and I know for a fact that it's worse on the mainland....by far !!!! There isn't much to do there and for that reason they must pay more as nobody wants to go. But holidaying here often when I could get out of Taiwan, and now living/teaching here, it is so much more relaxing, I feel good about myself, and I feel that I am doing some good. I'm sorry but the food / weather / nightlife / scenery / beaches are just too much to give up now and I never will. If you want money, rudeness, frustration, non-appreciative people around you, take the job. And just to tell you about a post I commented on the other day about Thai/Asians not saying "sorry", well, like I commented, I never heard the word "sorry" in 14 years there and the Taiwanese don't even know the definition I believe!! Stay in CM !!

[nonthaburial]

So you were making 41,000 and that was low end??? That is quite shocking for me... From the forums Ive read about working as a teacher in China.... Most people are quite happy with 12,000... And Ive never actually read of anyone making over 25,000, that would be EXTREMELY well qualified. This is why I was in the belief that 12,000 was quite good.... A lot of people I see post salaries of around 9,000 or 10,000 and are happy. I'll have to do more research for sure!

I can assure you of the figures mentioned, but as I stated as an engineer. And a then 55 year old with years of experience. The Chinese wanted my experience, they even have a "foreign expert" category for visas to get around any niggling difficulties.

Let's take another look at the salary offered, which you seem to accept,, 12000 RMB at today's rate is 1944 USD, 1160 GBP or 62000 baht. So keeping to the USD conversation and taking on average 30 days in a month, that gives you spending power of say USD 65 a day. Taking your possible expenditure into account, plus salaries taxes etc, I honestly believe life will not be as easy as you are hoping. As others have said, it seems there may be room for you to moonlight, however, your work permit/ visa will be tied in to your full time employer. You can also trust me when I say the Chinese police are a different ball game from their Thai brothers.

[art vandelay]

China is an experience worth having from a cultural and teaching perspective. living there can be tough - depends how westernised your city is - but tough can be the best experience sometimes.

i'd take chinese students over thai any day. punctual, motivated, well behaved and chinese teachers were friendly.

and if you like to date local girls absolutely no problems.

very different to thailand but worth it.

[DoctorG]

I taught at 2 Chinese universities, and at one Thai private high school. I enjoyed the teaching in China but hated teaching in TL.

[Maroon Watcher]

12,000 is OK but Shenzhen is more expensive than BKK

But really close to HK (Train 1 hr?)

and easy airports to Philippines or Thailand

(Shenzhen, HK or Guangzhou airports)

Many clubs/"Pub to Clubs" all over big cities - better in Western bar areas.

Some Chinese thing westerners have less money than them because they teach -

but most jnr Doctors earn 12,000

Chinese (German) beers are ok and way cheaper than imports

Be careful you don't mess with the wrong girl... they can call on many family members

But will not lose face unless u r really bad (Face is worse than here)

Lowai (Ferangs) are "protected" so most people will back off

and generally foreigners are seen as helping China.

If a girl drinks a lot she may be a prossie.

If she has ample boobs - she may be (Is) a Mongolian prossie

All bars and Restaurants! are full of smokers - they have NO idea.

But many western bars are loved Because they can smoke...

Some fake alcohol is around and most things you buy ... will be fake!

DVDs on the street are poor copies but sell for around THB 25/35. (Some stop 1/2 way through...)

They will sell u a dud then expect u not to return it or if u do - just give u another one

(Not the one u had ... cos he knows it's a dud.... ged it?)

Girls like Young Americans for a chance to marry and leave China,

Or English Gentlemen cos day speaks propper English and may get them out of china

(& white babies - same in Philippines but nicer smile and no back stabbing)

Last Laugh...

Do Not Forget All Chinese are sons and daughters of Emperors!

[Maroon Watcher]

...after reading other messages - I can add...

Most ordinary Chinese earn 3,000 to 10,000.

30,000 + is Rich to them

OK Teachers are wanted in China

A school will usually supply an apartment AND give you money for basic utilities.

Visa Free

FLIGHT (EVERY YEAR) FREE

Work permit FREE

Medical - OK thorough medical is up to CNY 700 (Once)

No need for a license But Degree is (Any)

And TEFL is helpful.

Most Students behave and Want to learn...

Temperature is fine

Winter SMOG and Smokers are Not

Coming to Thailand cost me THB50,000, just in expenses...

[tiffanystoyz]

Depends Since I'm at a point in life where I have no need to work I'd say if it is money you seek then go to the money if it is tat you want go to the tat. But be fore warned Thailand is more a democracy than China So your pretty much have free travel here China is more restricted And the dialect in China changes about every 30 miles or so so that might be an issue to consider too only two dialects here.

[larsjohnsson]

How much is a "quite high salary" for you?

[myluckythai]

not sure about China, but teaching in Thailand is futile

[asiacanuck]

Well, I just retired to Chiangmai after spending the last six years of my teaching career in Wuhan, China. I have to say it was the best six years of my career. The kids were great, no discipline problems. I was teaching Mathematics in an International School and earning around 30,000 RMB per month when I left last June. The starting salary for regular academic teachers was 20 000 to 25 000 RMB per month. However, the hours were comparable to a regular school week in North America. There was also an ESL department in our school that students had to graduate from before they could be admitted to the regular academic program. Those teachers started at 12 000 to 15 000 per month. Free accommodation, international medical insurance, visas and annual flights home were provided as part of the package to all of us, both academic and ESL staffs. We also had a total of about three months holiday including the summer and winter breaks.

12 000 RMB - 15 000 RMB per month is pretty normal for a regular ESL teacher. For that salary, you should at least be provided with a decent place to live. They should also look after your visas, work permits, etc. If you're lucky, maybe even a trip home once a year.

The same money will get you a much nicer condo or apartment in China than in Chiangmai. For the most part, the cost of living is similar or less expensive than Thailand. But you won't have the amount of westernization you have in this country. Depending on where you are, the probability of finding any western restaurants (or I should say that have authentic Western food) or people who speak English will be way less than in Thailand. There are tons of ESL teachers all over China living a pretty good life on 12 000RMB per month!

If you are flexible and can roll with the punches, China is an incredible place, despite what you hear. If you are a sensitive, non-smoking vegetarian who wears a face mask at the first hint of fine particles in the air, then it is not for you! I think I ate more weird food there the first year than I have eaten in my whole life. Along with our regular fare of pork and chicken, we munched our way through dog, rabbit, frog, snake, pigeon, bull penis, rooster testicles, turtle meat and shells, to mention a few. There is nothing they don't eat.

Most Chinese beer contains less alcohol than what we are used to but it is also very cheap when purchased in the stores or smaller bars. A good variety of foreign beers are available in most places. Like anywhere, city centres are going to be more expensive than the outskirts or rural areas. If you'll drink anything, you can get totally zapped for a few yuan by drinking bijou, the traditional Chinese hard liquor but you'll regret it the next day!

Many Chinese girls are obsessed with white foreign males the same way that the foreign guys here are obsessed with Thai women. If you have a job and are decent looking, you won't have to try very hard; they will find you! But they are not interested in men that are forty years older than they are! You don't have to be rich to date them but marrying them may be another story. At the least, most guys are expected to provide a car and a house before marriage is even considered. But as a previous poster stated, don't take them lightly. Big brothers and their friends have been know to beat the s#@t out of foreigners who use and dump their sisters. Many women in the larger westernized cities such as Beijing and Shanghai are used to casual dating and may be less conservative than their counterparts in other parts of the country but overall, they are still a very conservative, naive group when it comes to relationships.

We loved the country and would recommend it to anybody for a few years. You will love it or hate it! There are no grey areas in China. I have friends who couldn't wait to leave after their first year and others who have been there for decades. But six years was long enough for us!

Edited April 12, 2014 by asiacanuck

[mikemaeo]

Really dont know why half of the people in these forums bother to travel at all or what they expect to find in foreign lands miles from their own environments. Looks like they want a little England or America in Thailand.

I have taught in both China and Thailand and loved both experiences for different reasons.

In regard to teaching my experience in China was far more positive than it has been in Thailand from the students, to the teachers to the way I was looked after to the respect I was shown.

My basic salary was 9000 RMB, a fully furnished apartment, free internet, electricity, water, internet, laptop, free food if I chose to eat the school, a monthly travel allowance and mobile phone allowance (cant remember how much).

The school drove me everywhere I needed to go, paid for my visa, health check, residents permit.

The students were polite and keen to learn as were the Chinese English teachers and the school was keen to move away from the learning by rote system.

Teachers would regularly call at my apartment to take me shopping or to visit interesting spots or invite me to their homes for dinner.

However, I lived in a city where there was only eight foreigners so some things that you would take for granted like cheese or butter were hard to come by, McDonalds etc. forget it. But this is why I travel and work to experience other cultures.

I never found the people rude, only charming and helpful.

The police tried to get me to move from my apartment into the school compound as they said it was unsafe. It was not, the neighbors were great, I think the police just worried that they coudnt keep tabs on me.

You need a degree to teach in China but if you are good they will find a way around this.

I love living in Thailand but teaching is both disheartening and a waste of time for a committed teacher. The students, if you work at it will come around and try at least but you are battleing the schools and Thai teachers lack of interest and support all the time. The saving grace for me is the students who have turned around a lot since my arrival.

[IMA_FARANG]

From what Ive heard... 12000 is quite good, and much higher than the general population...

How about the girls? As approachable as the Thai girls?

-----------------------------

So, that's the real point of the question isn't it?

What you should be asking is what the living conditions in China compared to an Isaan village n Thailand is in a rural farming China school with ho running water or electricity in the house you live in.

Such places DO exist in China .... but I doubt that most teachers on this forum would be willing to go there.

Either in Thailand or China.

Edited April 13, 2014 by IMA_FARANG

[PattayaIELTSTeacher]

Really dont know why half of the people in these forums bother to travel at all or what they expect to find in foreign lands miles from their own environments. Looks like they want a little England or America in Thailand.

I have taught in both China and Thailand and loved both experiences for different reasons.

In regard to teaching my experience in China was far more positive than it has been in Thailand from the students, to the teachers to the way I was looked after to the respect I was shown.

My basic salary was 9000 RMB, a fully furnished apartment, free internet, electricity, water, internet, laptop, free food if I chose to eat the school, a monthly travel allowance and mobile phone allowance (cant remember how much).

The school drove me everywhere I needed to go, paid for my visa, health check, residents permit.

The students were polite and keen to learn as were the Chinese English teachers and the school was keen to move away from the learning by rote system.

Teachers would regularly call at my apartment to take me shopping or to visit interesting spots or invite me to their homes for dinner.

However, I lived in a city where there was only eight foreigners so some things that you would take for granted like cheese or butter were hard to come by, McDonalds etc. forget it. But this is why I travel and work to experience other cultures.

I never found the people rude, only charming and helpful.

The police tried to get me to move from my apartment into the school compound as they said it was unsafe. It was not, the neighbors were great, I think the police just worried that they coudnt keep tabs on me.

You need a degree to teach in China but if you are good they will find a way around this.

I love living in Thailand but teaching is both disheartening and a waste of time for a committed teacher. The students, if you work at it will come around and try at least but you are battleing the schools and Thai teachers lack of interest and support all the time. The saving grace for me is the students who have turned around a lot since my arrival.

As another having spent time teaching in both China (Xian, think Terra Cotta Warriors), and Thailand, I echo most everything Mike has said. Chinese students are much more polite and respectful toward their teachers. For the most part, Chinese people are awesome, and Thai food can't hold a candle to a good Mandarin meal. As with any Asian country, it pays to learn the language.

In all honesty, I never felt more free then I did while living in China. I chose to live off campus, so, in addition to the other perks Mike mentions, was provided a stipend to cover a portion of my living expenses. I worked on year to year work visas, and beyond having to go in and register my address with the "local" police, I NEVER had to check-in with Immigration, and not 1 time in 6 years did anyone ever show up on my doorstep to check up on me. So long as I behaved, I was left to my own devices. I had both electric and gas powered motorbikes, and when pulled over at a check-point, after simply presenting a copy of my work visa, and foreign expert cert, was allowed to be on my way, no fuss, no muss.

I do admit to having been robbed at knife point once by an unlicensed motorbike taxi driver I got a ride with. He took my money, and my mobile. I'll try and make the long story short providing details. I reported it, and the authorities in the small city, (small by Chinese standards, maybe 100,000 peeps) I was visiting were extremely embarrassed by the whole affair, as I was there lecturing free of charge. Anyway, I returned home after a few days, and after returning, went and got a printout of the activity that had taken place on my mobile. Lo and behold, the fool who'd stolen it decided to make a few calls before discarding my sim (yep, that stupid!), so I faxed a copy of the printout back up to the powers that be, and a few days later my phone was returned to me (albeit with a cracked screen), along with an envelope containing the Rmb the thief had taken. I don't know what exactly happened to him, but I'd assume with the loss of face that accompanied having a foreign "guest" treated in such a manner, it wasn't pleasant for the robber, certainly not something he bought his way out of.

Beyond that incident, I never felt unsafe in China.

I'll close by saying, IMO, unless you're also being provided the perks Mike and I mention, it'll be rough to get by on 12,000 in Shenzhen.

Regarding the ladies? A story for another day! But I will say, if you meet a "nice" girl, and she eventually sleeps with you, she does so because she's serious about the relationship, and she's expecting you to stick around. If not, could amount to a huge loss of face for her, with much pain on her part, and anger from her family.

Any other questions regarding China, feel free to ask, and I'm sure either Mike, or myself can answer them for you.

Regards!