PM Yingluck urges NACC to inspect rice stock to determine whether rice was really missing

[marcusd]

Rice being fumigated. EXCELLENT!!! I love organic rice

Marcusd. Via tapatalk

[drand11]

If a few farmers claim there is missing rice but the Gov't say it is not true, there is only one way to resolve the dispute. COUNT THE RISE !!

[drand11]

The missing money is based on there being more money due vs. rice collected.

Only way to know if there's missing money is to do an inventory. If there is not a reliable audit then there is no claim.

[rubl]

With no ministry being able to come with consistent figures, it would seem Ms. Yingluck is trying anything to further delay a verdict by the NACC.

Next she might suggest that if the NACC can't do the inspection without proper documentation of what and how much to inspect they should wait for the program to finish so that the 'proper' figures can be calculated and made available. That's assuming the NACC is qualified to access documents classified as of National Importance and therefor "Top Secret".

[fab4]

With no ministry being able to come with consistent figures, it would seem Ms. Yingluck is trying anything to further delay a verdict by the NACC.

Next she might suggest that if the NACC can't do the inspection without proper documentation of what and how much to inspect they should wait for the program to finish so that the 'proper' figures can be calculated and made available. That's assuming the NACC is qualified to access documents classified as of National Importance and therefor "Top Secret".

She might but she might not so where would your "argument" be then?

Surely the NACC must have the correct figures - they have deemed that Yingluck cannot have the remaining seven of her witnesses as the NACC has sufficient information already from the 3 witnesses they allowed her.

They have been investigating for over two years, they tell us, and have rushed forward the inquiry so they must have every bit of information they need.

You can't have it both ways, rubl. If they haven't got the info they need they shouldn't have pushed for the inquiry until they were ready, but that wouldn't fit in with the grand scheme of things - personally, I think they will either delay the inquiry, or horrors, find Yingluck not guilty and leave it to the CC to do the dirty work over the Thawil transfer, just my opinion..........................................

[northernjohn]

I wonder where the 19.8 million tons of program rice came from? The Commerce ministry has be proclaiming less than 10 million tons in storage, Now the caretaker PM istaskig the NCAA with a physical inspection of 2900 storage facilities, both private, Government, and marketing for farmers. Her own aduitors have never been able to agree on storage figure4s, cost to put the rice in storage, grade of rice stored nor cost per ton to store and maintain rice quality.

The lady is going to have show a lot more leg than this, to convience the potential ''johns'' of her committment to follow through with her promises.

Yeah isnt it funny how after a few months this Gov warehouse miraculously announces they have 20 mill kilo there of the farmers rice. Where did it really come from? Not that it matters for this case against her for negligence but still curious how the found this after 6 months of inquiries

Sent from my GT-S5310 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Even if they do have it wouldn't she be negligent in not knowing that? Seems strange to me that she is asking the NACC to do an inventory. That is her job and she should have those figures at her command with in 2 days. Yet she asks for and gets 15 days and still can not come up with the facts.

To bad there is not a law against being incompetent. They could extend it forever and still she would never get enough proof that she was.

[northernjohn]

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First off....... this is actually related to a different case already being investigated by the NACC, not connected to YL's negligence case.

Funny how it has taken this time for her to make this offer, obviously once all the rice has been moved around and probably loads imported in the dead of night to fill the holes... documents faked, accounts adjusted, and all the hard work that has been going on to cover up discrepancies. The main reason PTP have been clinging to power... to buy time to cover up their massive crimes.

Secondly.... The main point of the NACC investigations into the corruption is NOT missing rice... it is missing MONEY!.... 600 billion baht to be precise.

That is what is really going to be the rope that hangs everyone. That is what is going to put a huge prison sentence on Yingluck and everyone involved. That is what is going to force YL on the run like her coward of a brother.

Not sure you are rite here. The charge is dereliction of duty. She may not have taken one baht but not knowing it has been stolen is dereliction of duty. As the chairman she is supposed to know if there is some thing amiss with the funds. Small amounts of money in my opinion would be normal and acceptable but not the massive amount they are short of.

[northernjohn]

I wonder where the 19.8 million tons of program rice came from? The Commerce ministry has be proclaiming less than 10 million tons in storage, Now the caretaker PM istaskig the NCAA with a physical inspection of 2900 storage facilities, both private, Government, and marketing for farmers. Her own aduitors have never been able to agree on storage figure4s, cost to put the rice in storage, grade of rice stored nor cost per ton to store and maintain rice quality.

The lady is going to have show a lot more leg than this, to convience the potential ''johns'' of her committment to follow through with her promises.

She's telling them to carry out their own audit on stocks...knowing full well that it's an impossible task. 2900 facilities.....volumes would now be almost incalculable in many of these warehouses.

Whilst I haven't been inside any of them, I have seen first hand photos of a couple of warehouses....running a tape or by surveying at each facility is a mammoth job......probably 1 team would complete 2 or 3 facilities/day..

This government has had almost 6 months to get the books looking right.....my guess it would take a very good auditor now to go through everything.....

IMO, it won't happen.

Well if an audit was an impossible task, how come the dem party had the investigation launched in the first place, alleging rice was missing?

Not saying but wondering if there is a chance ChrisY1 is wrong.

If he is that leaves you ion the boat with no oars. Not that the one you had was that big any how.

Also they could have been using more than one team and they had six months to do it.

Now that I think about it you have no oars and you are kilometers off shore with an out going tide.

[northernjohn]

With no ministry being able to come with consistent figures, it would seem Ms. Yingluck is trying anything to further delay a verdict by the NACC.

Next she might suggest that if the NACC can't do the inspection without proper documentation of what and how much to inspect they should wait for the program to finish so that the 'proper' figures can be calculated and made available. That's assuming the NACC is qualified to access documents classified as of National Importance and therefor "Top Secret".

She might but she might not so where would your "argument" be then?

Surely the NACC must have the correct figures - they have deemed that Yingluck cannot have the remaining seven of her witnesses as the NACC has sufficient information already from the 3 witnesses they allowed her.

They have been investigating for over two years, they tell us, and have rushed forward the inquiry so they must have every bit of information they need.

You can't have it both ways, rubl. If they haven't got the info they need they shouldn't have pushed for the inquiry until they were ready, but that wouldn't fit in with the grand scheme of things - personally, I think they will either delay the inquiry, or horrors, find Yingluck not guilty and leave it to the CC to do the dirty work over the Thawil transfer, just my opinion..........................................

She doesn't need witnesses if the facts are right just bring in the records. The Tide is going out at a faster pace. Hope you have a life jacket.

It would probably help her case if she spent less time on Facebook and more time on defending her self. She has a team of lawyers to dig up the legal work. Just sit down and have one of them explain it all to her. Maybe she should ask for a one year deferment so she can understand what is going on.

[Rich teacher]

This commission have proven their ineptitude in the past. After advising the Bank of Thailand that Thaksin was not liable under Section 100 of the NACC Act for the purchase of the Ratchada case, before the transfer of the land, he was consequently convicted under that very section. They therefore are clearly unsure of the details of the law and again in this case they have presided over proceedings that leave themselves open to allegations of bias and incompetence.

The government claims the rice is there. They will of course have documentation to back their claims. If the rice is missing, where is the evidence? If the NACC have unrefutable evidence that rice is missing through acts of corruption, this is an open and shut case. I can't wait to see this unrefutable evidence.

[Thai at Heart]

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First off....... this is actually related to a different case already being investigated by the NACC, not connected to YL's negligence case.

Funny how it has taken this time for her to make this offer, obviously once all the rice has been moved around and probably loads imported in the dead of night to fill the holes... documents faked, accounts adjusted, and all the hard work that has been going on to cover up discrepancies. The main reason PTP have been clinging to power... to buy time to cover up their massive crimes.

Secondly.... The main point of the NACC investigations into the corruption is NOT missing rice... it is missing MONEY!.... 600 billion baht to be precise.

That is what is really going to be the rope that hangs everyone. That is what is going to put a huge prison sentence on Yingluck and everyone involved. That is what is going to force YL on the run like her coward of a brother.

Not sure you are rite here. The charge is dereliction of duty. She may not have taken one baht but not knowing it has been stolen is dereliction of duty. As the chairman she is supposed to know if there is some thing amiss with the funds. Small amounts of money in my opinion would be normal and acceptable but not the massive amount they are short of.

The issue would be knowing it, and doing nothing about it. Not knowing is just ignorance.

[Dr Bruce]

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First off....... this is actually related to a different case already being investigated by the NACC, not connected to YL's negligence case.

Funny how it has taken this time for her to make this offer, obviously once all the rice has been moved around and probably loads imported in the dead of night to fill the holes... documents faked, accounts adjusted, and all the hard work that has been going on to cover up discrepancies. The main reason PTP have been clinging to power... to buy time to cover up their massive crimes.

Secondly.... The main point of the NACC investigations into the corruption is NOT missing rice... it is missing MONEY!.... 600 billion baht to be precise.

That is what is really going to be the rope that hangs everyone. That is what is going to put a huge prison sentence on Yingluck and everyone involved. That is what is going to force YL on the run like her coward of a brother.

Not sure you are rite here. The charge is dereliction of duty. She may not have taken one baht but not knowing it has been stolen is dereliction of duty. As the chairman she is supposed to know if there is some thing amiss with the funds. Small amounts of money in my opinion would be normal and acceptable but not the massive amount they are short of.

The issue would be knowing it, and doing nothing about it. Not knowing is just ignorance.

It would be very easy to check if the government figures are true. The NACC could be given a list of all the storage facilities and then the NACC could check a random sample of the facilities.

An experienced person can estimate the volume of rice by visual inspection very quickly. This would tell the NACC if the government was telling the truth about stocks.

But as we saw with the Rachadaphisek land case, the NACC are experienced in not letting the truth get in the way of a conviction.

I wonder how many prosecution witnesses will be allowed to give evidence in private without even the defense lawyers present in this one?

[kerrysum]

Yingluck don't let the truth get in the way of a witch hunt and a judicial coup!

What is the truth in your opinion?

In my opinion: A trillion baht gone without transparency. Still no money for the farmers. She even said that she has no idea what is going on in the scheme although she is in charge of it. The charge is negligence remember. So..has she been negligent?

Simple as that.

I totally agree, no truer words said..... but it is the way the world is today, no matter where you live...........

[drand11]

This investigation has nothing to do with the "Loss" of cash in the program. This program is designed to Lose money!

The charges are dereliction of duty based on the statement of several farmers claiming that there was built in fraud in the rice scheme, the Gov't knew about this fraud and the Gov't failed to act to stop/investigate the fraud.

So it comes down to:

- Was there Fraud?

- If yes, did Gov't investigate to confirm?

- Regardless of the above...the PM is not the administrator of the Gov't program. the Finance Dept. is the administrator. Legally speaking, is the PM responsible for the program IF she is not the head of the program?

[Local Drunk]

I'm trying to imagine 20 million metric tons of rice... Any math whiz here able to put that figure into a mountain or pyramid for comparison, or maybe if all those bags of rice were laid end to end: how far would they stretch?

[edwinchester]

I'm trying to imagine 20 million metric tons of rice... Any math whiz here able to put that figure into a mountain or pyramid for comparison, or maybe if all those bags of rice were laid end to end: how far would they stretch?

....all the way to the Cayman Islands.

[opalred]

i think half the bags filled with sand rice allready sold in burma by loving brother also thai people have told me his

chopper seen at cm and cr airport while yl been up north exchanging love or money? cheers

[soalbundy]

I wonder where the 19.8 million tons of program rice came from? The Commerce ministry has be proclaiming less than 10 million tons in storage, Now the caretaker PM istaskig the NCAA with a physical inspection of 2900 storage facilities, both private, Government, and marketing for farmers. Her own aduitors have never been able to agree on storage figure4s, cost to put the rice in storage, grade of rice stored nor cost per ton to store and maintain rice quality.

The lady is going to have show a lot more leg than this, to convience the potential ''johns'' of her committment to follow through with her promises.

She is like her brother,she made an honest mistake, when you are so rich in rice it's easy to forget a few million tons

[Nickymaster]

Ms. Yingluck wrote on her Facebook that figures in the documents from the rice mortgage accounting sub-committee did not take into account the 2.9 million tons of rice in the possession of the Government Warehouse Organization and the Marketing Organization for Farmers, refuting the claim that some rice had gone missing.

She suggested that for the purpose of transparency, the NACC should seek more evidence and inspect the rice stock itself. The suggestion has been forwarded to the NACC through Deputy Commerce Minister Yanyong Phuang-rat.

The PM that hasn't provided any transparency when spending a 1 trillion baht now talks about transparency. The hypocrisy.

[Ricardo]

I'm trying to imagine 20 million metric tons of rice... Any math whiz here able to put that figure into a mountain or pyramid for comparison, or maybe if all those bags of rice were laid end to end: how far would they stretch?

....all the way to the Cayman Islands.

Don't Amply Rich people prefer the British Virgin Islands, for their discrete offshore operations ?

Rice work if you can get it !

[Baerboxer]

Yingluck don't let the truth get in the way of a witch hunt and a judicial coup!

Would she even know the truth if it bit her?

[Dr Bruce]

i think half the bags filled with sand rice allready sold in burma by loving brother also thai people have told me his

chopper seen at cm and cr airport while yl been up north exchanging love or money? cheers

Must be true then, if Thai people tell you.

[anteater]

I have no idea if the rice subsidy scheme is good or bad or neither, and I don't believe many of you really know either. My 'feeling' is that it is probably not that great, but this 'feeling' is based on scraps of information gleaned from sundry news reports and internet posts, not on any authoritative articles or statistics.

On the face of it the scheme that was run by the previous government seems better (topup payment paid after sale), but I really don't know.

People keep saying that Yingluck and PT are 'corrupt' in regard to this scheme. Maybe that's true, maybe not.

Over and above that corruption issue, surely *some* agricultural subsidies are defensible, if they keep farmers on the land.

This subject is crying out for an investigative article or series of articles such as we used to see in the 'NY Times' or London's 'Sunday Times' or 'Le Monde'. So here's a message to the editor of the 'Bangkok Post' and other newspapers: why don't you put a small team on this to try to explain to us, your puzzled readers, 'all about the rice scheme'? We need to know:

- what it involves: who gets subsidised, when, where, how?

- how this compares to similar agricultural subsidy schemes internationally?

- why it has gone wrong (if it has)?

- is there evidence of corruption?

- if it is deemed to be a 'bad policy', was this simply an honest mistake by the PT government, or were any sinister motives involved?

We need authoritative information, and when I say 'we' I mean:

1. The Thai people

2. International investors

3. (way down the list) Foreigners who are interested in Thailand.

[Wombat6]

Since when is it the Nacc's job to count bags of Rice ?? It is another of her (Or Brother's) hair brain schemes to delay the hearing.

[Artisi]

Since when is it the Nacc's job to count bags of Rice ?? It is another of her (Or Brother's) hair brain schemes to delay the hearing.

The best way for her to delay the hearing indefinitely is to depart the country on a permanent basis, this will solve a few of Thailand's current major problems and allow the country to get back on track.

[opalred]

it would be a great for yl to count bags 1. 2. 6. 12. 28.120 the country will make money 5000% more bags rice cheers

[outsider]

More Facebook Poo... sighs.

[rubl]

With no ministry being able to come with consistent figures, it would seem Ms. Yingluck is trying anything to further delay a verdict by the NACC.

Next she might suggest that if the NACC can't do the inspection without proper documentation of what and how much to inspect they should wait for the program to finish so that the 'proper' figures can be calculated and made available. That's assuming the NACC is qualified to access documents classified as of National Importance and therefor "Top Secret".

She might but she might not so where would your "argument" be then?

Surely the NACC must have the correct figures - they have deemed that Yingluck cannot have the remaining seven of her witnesses as the NACC has sufficient information already from the 3 witnesses they allowed her.

They have been investigating for over two years, they tell us, and have rushed forward the inquiry so they must have every bit of information they need.

You can't have it both ways, rubl. If they haven't got the info they need they shouldn't have pushed for the inquiry until they were ready, but that wouldn't fit in with the grand scheme of things - personally, I think they will either delay the inquiry, or horrors, find Yingluck not guilty and leave it to the CC to do the dirty work over the Thawil transfer, just my opinion..........................................

1. I described what might, but not what might not, therefore also no argument given in case of might not as not covered in my post. Furthermore there are many other possibilities of what she might or might not, I didn't cover those either.

2. If the NACC has the correct figures then we may have a classical case of Thainess with a reluctancy to make/announce a decision for fear of 'upsetting' some one or another. THe decision might be

- Ms. Yingluck is as innocent as a just born babe

- Ms. Yingluck is ignorant and therefore negligent

- Ms. Yingluck is criminally involved in the Rice Price Pledging scheme

3.With no official accounting of 880 billion Baht involved in the Rice Price Pledging scheme, with different Ministries coming with different fugures I thnik the NACC will have indeed all figures they can get without raiding some ministries for their administration and having 100 accountants go through the paperwork and follow up with inspection tours with a few companies of Special Forces to ensure co-operation of all involved.

4. NACC judged that the three witnesses they accepted were related to the RPPS through their function / involvement. They judged that the seven they rejected seemed uninvolved to the point as in the NACC process they could be ignored. That's not the same of course as the three 'already' provided enough.

5. You can't have it both ways. If the Yingluck government keeps obfuscating, providing data contradicting itself, even the NACC will start to wonder why the Yingluck administration in it's blanket amnesty bill included it's first two years in office as if they had to hide something. Of course when the NACC starts to wonder too much about 880 billion spent they may decide to drop the 'negligence' case and start a 'criminal offence' case.

6. For your information over the last three National Budget years the RPPS has lost the state 700-880 billion Baht it would seem. If the scheme would have been included in the National Budget, projected deficit over those three years would have doubled (National Budget planning: 2011/2012 300 billion deficit, on 2.0 trillion budget, 2012/2013 300 billion deficit on 2.4 trillion budget, 2013/2014 250 billion deficit on 2.52 trillion budget).