One million tons of Thai rice to be sold out by June

[Torkmada]

Despite the constant attempts to destroy the rice scheme by self interested saboteors what we have here is good government policy working as it should for the betterment of the nation and its citizens.

Three cheers!

The rice scheme is finished. My Thai father in law still hadn't been paid for his rice since last October as has the guy who rents my wifes paddy.

Those farmers selling to the local rice mill were offered 4500 bht per tonne last week so they are effectively selling at a loss.

The rice scheme has destroyed the market for Thai rice at a level that gives the farmer any sort of livelyhood.

The alleged levels of rampant corruption simple do not exist.

The rice scheme is as clean as any Thai government policy can be and cleaner than many of Abhisit's policies

That's the reason why the NACC refuses to go and check the warehouses themselves for proof of missing rice.

Their content to rely on rumours and accusations rather than seek the truth because reality won't further their cause of pushing through trumped up charges against the nations leader.

The ship of state is slowly righting itself and shall soon be sailing through clear waters under blue skies with the same skipper at the helm.

The people have won.

Note to one self! Don`t feed the troll, don`t feed the troll, don`t feed the troll, don`t.......................

Better note to oneself! continue to deny reality, continue to deny reality, continue……….

[tim armstrong]

The real question is how many million tons of rice are left in storage ?? The balance will most likely be made into rice whisky and animal feed.

That's an angle I hadn't thought of - gallons of whisky! - give it to the farmers in lieu of money. Its just so unbelievable. Maybe this is history repeating itself. Remember opium and the Chinese. So many possibilities. I just can't believe that the world's number one or two rice exporter can act in this way. and think that they can get away with all the subterfuge.

[Robby nz]

Its not an unusual sale - But as pointed out is this from old stock or new harvest.

Thailand sells approx 8 million plus tons a year. With ambitious goal to export 8.5+ million tons of rice in 2014.

With 14 - 18 million tons in storage and more from new harvest - annual sales of 8 million tons, you can see the huge scope of the problem.

Current Rice price is approx $435 (14000 baht) per ton and has been declining and the price chart looks very negative and could go down another $100/ton closer to its "traditional" price level.

Moreover, Thailand cannot just dump its stock of Rice on the world market as it would be santioned by the WTO.

In my view this was a good idea gone bad. The government pledging scheme promised rice farmers15,000 baht ($488) per ton. At the time this was the world price for Rice.

The goverment thought by holding the Rice from the Market it woulld force the price up and then they could sell at a higher price then that was pledged.

Of course you need to ask the question if this had worked - who would have got the profit..

The "Govermment" for the benifit of the people? Or People in the Goverment?

You quote todays sale price for rice as 14,000 B per ton and the pledged price as 15,000 B per ton which does not look to be a big difference however the 15,000 B is for paddy rice.

After milling, packing etc the cost of the rice that is sold is over 29,000 B, that is the pledge price plus processing cost.

So therefor the loss from selling at 14,000 B per ton is in fact 15,000 B per ton in round numbers.

It should be noted that the farmers were rarely or never paid the full pledged price by the mills because there was (is) a moisture content rider, what the mills were paid by the Govt nobody knows.

[issanaus]

Its not an unusual sale - But as pointed out is this from old stock or new harvest.

Thailand sells approx 8 million plus tons a year. With ambitious goal to export 8.5+ million tons of rice in 2014.

With 14 - 18 million tons in storage and more from new harvest - annual sales of 8 million tons, you can see the huge scope of the problem.

Current Rice price is approx $435 (14000 baht) per ton and has been declining and the price chart looks very negative and could go down another $100/ton closer to its "traditional" price level.

Moreover, Thailand cannot just dump its stock of Rice on the world market as it would be santioned by the WTO.

In my view this was a good idea gone bad. The government pledging scheme promised rice farmers15,000 baht ($488) per ton. At the time this was the world price for Rice.

The goverment thought by holding the Rice from the Market it woulld force the price up and then they could sell at a higher price then that was pledged.

Of course you need to ask the question if this had worked - who would have got the profit..

The "Govermment" for the benifit of the people? Or People in the Goverment?

You quote todays sale price for rice as 14,000 B per ton and the pledged price as 15,000 B per ton which does not look to be a big difference however the 15,000 B is for paddy rice.

After milling, packing etc the cost of the rice that is sold is over 29,000 B, that is the pledge price plus processing cost.

So therefor the loss from selling at 14,000 B per ton is in fact 15,000 B per ton in round numbers.

It should be noted that the farmers were rarely or never paid the full pledged price by the mills because there was (is) a moisture content rider, what the mills were paid by the Govt nobody knows.

The issue of moisture content also highlights the conflicts that have occurred between various government policies. Because of labour shortages and the raise in the legal minimum wage, farmers are under pressure to use increased mechanisation. With mechanised harvesting rice is often not harvested at the optimum time because of the availability of harvesters. The inability of farmers to effectively be able to undertake post harvesting drying has lead to an increase in the amount of wet rice being delivered. This has been a issue that millers have been able to use to their advantage in pushing down the prices paid to farmers (including those who were not participating in the pledging scheme).

I am not saying that people do not deserve 300 baht a day, rather that policies need to be considered in combination rather than on an adhoc basis.

[Ricardo]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Does that 700k tons sold include the much praisesd by PTP Phillipine sales(you know, the ones that turned out to be total BS, just like the Chinese sales, Iraq sales and all the other non existant rice sales that were announced to great fanfare to keep the PTP fanboys chugging off)?

And today another massive-sale to the Phillipines is announced, or at least an MOU, with shipment of 1.4 million tons expected, by the end of this year, and at least 3 million tons in total !

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/721256-thailand-secures-rice-deal-with-the-philippines/

You'd think the government would have realised by now, that MOUs don't always lead to actual shipments, and payment being received ?

[semester]

The real question is how many million tons of rice are left in storage ??

The government only needs 18 more threads like this one.

"Thailand is estimated to have about 18 million tons of rice in storage, accumulated under the rice mortgage scheme, about three times normal storage supplies."

See more at: http://oryza.com/news/rice-news/thailand-pm-yingluck-face-criminal-charges-losses-related-rice-mortgage-scheme#sthash.1B9XQzki.dpuf

[issanaus]

If the thread had been titled "One Million Farmer to be sold out ..." it would have been more accurate.

[semester]

Does that 700k tons sold include the much praisesd by PTP Phillipine sales(you know, the ones that turned out to be total BS, just like the Chinese sales, Iraq sales and all the other non existant rice sales that were announced to great fanfare to keep the PTP fanboys chugging off)?

And today another massive-sale to the Phillipines is announced, or at least an MOU, with shipment of 1.4 million tons expected, by the end of this year, and at least 3 million tons in total !

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/721256-thailand-secures-rice-deal-with-the-philippines/

You'd think the government would have realised by now, that MOUs don't always lead to actual shipments, and payment being received ?

If the sale does go through, Yingluck should be congratulated for enhancing the cooperation amongst the increasingly important ties of ASEAN countries. Thailand buys smuggled rice from Burma and Cambodia and then sells it to the Philippines. It's a win-win-win-win situation... Except for Thai taxpayers.

"A populist subsidy on rice by Thailand's ruling party is enabling smugglers from neighbouring Burma to make a quick buck at the expense of Thai taxpayers"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/10618134/Burmese-smugglers-get-rich-on-Yingluck-Shinawatras-13-billion-Thai-rice-subsidies.html

"As much as 15 percent of Cam­bodias rice crop is illegally ex­ported to Thailand"

http://www.cambodiadaily.com/archives/rice-smuggling-hurting-farmers-expert-says-28552/

[edwinchester]

Despite the constant attempts to destroy the rice scheme by self interested saboteors what we have here is good government policy working as it should for the betterment of the nation and its citizens.

Three cheers!

The rice scheme is finished. My Thai father in law still hadn't been paid for his rice since last October as has the guy who rents my wifes paddy.

Those farmers selling to the local rice mill were offered 4500 bht per tonne last week so they are effectively selling at a loss.

The rice scheme has destroyed the market for Thai rice at a level that gives the farmer any sort of livelyhood.

The alleged levels of rampant corruption simple do not exist.

The rice scheme is as clean as any Thai government policy can be and cleaner than many of Abhisit's policies

That's the reason why the NACC refuses to go and check the warehouses themselves for proof of missing rice.

Their content to rely on rumours and accusations rather than seek the truth because reality won't further their cause of pushing through trumped up charges against the nations leader.

The ship of state is slowly righting itself and shall soon be sailing through clear waters under blue skies with the same skipper at the helm.

The people have won.

Nowhere in my post did I mention corruption but pointed out that a member of my own family has been waiting for payment since October as has the guy who rents my wifes paddy. Would you like to give your thoughts on those points?

What is your opinion on a scheme that is no longer operating but has driven down, through over production, the price paid to farmers today to such a point that they now get less than their production cost because the international price is so low?

[issanaus]

Does that 700k tons sold include the much praisesd by PTP Phillipine sales(you know, the ones that turned out to be total BS, just like the Chinese sales, Iraq sales and all the other non existant rice sales that were announced to great fanfare to keep the PTP fanboys chugging off)?

And today another massive-sale to the Phillipines is announced, or at least an MOU, with shipment of 1.4 million tons expected, by the end of this year, and at least 3 million tons in total !

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/721256-thailand-secures-rice-deal-with-the-philippines/

You'd think the government would have realised by now, that MOUs don't always lead to actual shipments, and payment being received ?

If the sale does go through, Yingluck should be congratulated for enhancing the cooperation amongst the increasingly important ties of ASEAN countries. Thailand buys smuggled rice from Burma and Cambodia and then sells it to the Philippines. It's a win-win-win-win situation... Except for Thai taxpayers.

"A populist subsidy on rice by Thailand's ruling party is enabling smugglers from neighbouring Burma to make a quick buck at the expense of Thai taxpayers"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/10618134/Burmese-smugglers-get-rich-on-Yingluck-Shinawatras-13-billion-Thai-rice-subsidies.html

"As much as 15 percent of Cam­bodias rice crop is illegally ex­ported to Thailand"

http://www.cambodiadaily.com/archives/rice-smuggling-hurting-farmers-expert-says-28552/

So what would happen when the AEC comes in to operation. Not only would Thai poor have to compete for jobs but the rice scheme in the PTP format would be even more unworkable. I am curious how this was to be explained to their support base in the N &NE. I suspect this may have been a consideration in the decision to dissolve parliament

[semester]

Does that 700k tons sold include the much praisesd by PTP Phillipine sales(you know, the ones that turned out to be total BS, just like the Chinese sales, Iraq sales and all the other non existant rice sales that were announced to great fanfare to keep the PTP fanboys chugging off)?

And today another massive-sale to the Phillipines is announced, or at least an MOU, with shipment of 1.4 million tons expected, by the end of this year, and at least 3 million tons in total !

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/721256-thailand-secures-rice-deal-with-the-philippines/

You'd think the government would have realised by now, that MOUs don't always lead to actual shipments, and payment being received ?

If the sale does go through, Yingluck should be congratulated for enhancing the cooperation amongst the increasingly important ties of ASEAN countries. Thailand buys smuggled rice from Burma and Cambodia and then sells it to the Philippines. It's a win-win-win-win situation... Except for Thai taxpayers.

"A populist subsidy on rice by Thailand's ruling party is enabling smugglers from neighbouring Burma to make a quick buck at the expense of Thai taxpayers"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/thailand/10618134/Burmese-smugglers-get-rich-on-Yingluck-Shinawatras-13-billion-Thai-rice-subsidies.html

"As much as 15 percent of Cam­bodias rice crop is illegally ex­ported to Thailand"

http://www.cambodiadaily.com/archives/rice-smuggling-hurting-farmers-expert-says-28552/

So what would happen when the AEC comes in to operation. Not only would Thai poor have to compete for jobs but the rice scheme in the PTP format would be even more unworkable. I am curious how this was to be explained to their support base in the N &NE. I suspect this may have been a consideration in the decision to dissolve parliament

The government will use this and a number of other issues to delay the implementation of the AEC for a number of years.

[trainman34014]

Which June would that be then ?

[siampolee]

Torkmada post # 27

The alleged levels of rampant corruption simple do not exist.

The rice scheme is as clean as any Thai government policy can be and cleaner than many of Abhisit's policies

That's the reason why the NACC refuses to go and check the warehouses themselves for proof of missing rice.

Their content to rely on rumours and accusations rather than seek the truth because reality won't further their cause of pushing through trumped up charges against the nations leader.

The ship of state is slowly righting itself and shall soon be sailing through clear waters under blue skies with the same skipper at the helm.

The people have won.

Indeed it is amusing to read the comments of those members of the congregation who sit drooling in their pews in the Temple of Shinwatra and the Red Shirts eagerly listening to and lapping up the ranting rhetoric of the P.T.P. socially, morally and political malcontents.

Indeed Torkmada like the rest of his ilk post about everything as soon as they know about it, which is very often before it happens

[GentlemanJim]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Despite the constant attempts to destroy the rice scheme by self interested saboteors what we have here is good government policy working as it should for the betterment of the nation and its citizens.

Three cheers!

The rice scheme is finished. My Thai father in law still hadn't been paid for his rice since last October as has the guy who rents my wifes paddy.
Those farmers selling to the local rice mill were offered 4500 bht per tonne last week so they are effectively selling at a loss.
The rice scheme has destroyed the market for Thai rice at a level that gives the farmer any sort of livelyhood.

The alleged levels of rampant corruption simple do not exist.

The rice scheme is as clean as any Thai government policy can be and cleaner than many of Abhisit's policies

That's the reason why the NACC refuses to go and check the warehouses themselves for proof of missing rice.

Their content to rely on rumours and accusations rather than seek the truth because reality won't further their cause of pushing through trumped up charges against the nations leader.

The ship of state is slowly righting itself and shall soon be sailing through clear waters under blue skies with the same skipper at the helm.

The people have won.

Rule number 9 Thai Visa Forum rules:

"9) Do not post inflammatory messages on the forum, or attempt to disrupt discussions to upset its participants, or trolling.Trolling can be defined as the act of purposefully antagonizing other people on the internet by posting controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion."

Mods. When we repeatedly press the report button on trolls like this we get criticized for over use of the report button. So quite plainly, as a genuine item for discussion, why is someone like this who clearly, every time he is banned comes back with a new name just to carry on the same inflammatory trollish remarks, allowed to remain on the forum? It makes a mockery of members who pick up bans and 3-7 day 'holidays' for remarks that are often made without clear intention to inflame and antagonize like the poster is clearly doing in this case. Even the name was chosen with the intent to antagonize.

[Robby nz]

Seems we have a new troll.

Don't feed it.

According to the evidence given to the NACC there is still 20 million tons in storage give or take a grain or two :

Minister Yanyong visited the NACC on Wednesday to submit a letter asserting that inspections of the rice stock in warehouses, carried out in March by Ministry of Commerce officials and members of the rice stock inspection committee, found that the entire 18.7 million tons of rice was intact and another 1.1 million tons was being fumigated.

Which gives the lie to how much they have sold.

I note they all seem to have dropped the caretaker prefix.

And now 2 days later :

Commerce Minister gives more testimony in rice fraud case

BANGKOK, 25 April 2014 (NNT) – Minister of Commerce Niwatthamrong Boonsongpaisan has been summoned for the second time by the National Anti-Corruption Commission (NACC) as a witness defending the Prime Minister in the case over corruption in the rice pledging scheme.

At the request of the NACC, Mr Niwatthamrong today submitted more documents as his testimony to the agency in a bid to complete his defense for Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra, who is facing a negligence charge. The minister spent about half an hour giving verbal clarifications, focusing on the amount of rice in the government’s warehouses and the release of the grains.

Mr Niwatthamrong reported that out of the original amount of 19.9 million tons in stock, about 13 million tons still remained while a total of 213.5 billion baht had been generated from rice sales. As for the guideline used to determine the selling prices of the grains, he said the government referred to the prices set by other rice exporting countries and the depreciation costs were also factored in.

In addition, the minister presented warehouse rental insurance contracts in order to confirm that none of the mortgaged rice had disappeared, given the papers clearly stipulated the liabilities in such a case.

Mr Niwatthamrong expected the NACC to be able to summarize his testimony within next week before concluding the rice case in early May.

-- NNT 2014-04-25

So on Wednesday the 23rd Deputy Minister of Commerce Yanyong Puangrach told the NACC in a letter the whole 19.9 million tons was intact.

Then on Friday the 25th the Minister of Commerce Niwatthamrong Boonsongpaisan is telling them that only 13 million tons remain.

Has there been a quick sale or are the minister and his deputy out of step.?

And which or neither is telling the truth ?

I note again that the caretaker has been dropped from their title.

[issanaus]

Seems we have a new troll.

Don't feed it.

According to the evidence given to the NACC there is still 20 million tons in storage give or take a grain or two :

Minister Yanyong visited the NACC on Wednesday to submit a letter asserting that inspections of the rice stock in warehouses, carried out in March by Ministry of Commerce officials and members of the rice stock inspection committee, found that the entire 18.7 million tons of rice was intact and another 1.1 million tons was being fumigated.

Which gives the lie to how much they have sold.

I note they all seem to have dropped the caretaker prefix.

And now 2 days later :

Commerce Minister gives more testimony in rice fraud case

BANGKOK, 25 April 2014 (NNT) – Minister of Commerce Niwatthamrong Boonsongpaisan has been summoned for the second time by the National Anti-Corruption Commission (NACC) as a witness defending the Prime Minister in the case over corruption in the rice pledging scheme.

At the request of the NACC, Mr Niwatthamrong today submitted more documents as his testimony to the agency in a bid to complete his defense for Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra, who is facing a negligence charge. The minister spent about half an hour giving verbal clarifications, focusing on the amount of rice in the government’s warehouses and the release of the grains.

Mr Niwatthamrong reported that out of the original amount of 19.9 million tons in stock, about 13 million tons still remained while a total of 213.5 billion baht had been generated from rice sales. As for the guideline used to determine the selling prices of the grains, he said the government referred to the prices set by other rice exporting countries and the depreciation costs were also factored in.

In addition, the minister presented warehouse rental insurance contracts in order to confirm that none of the mortgaged rice had disappeared, given the papers clearly stipulated the liabilities in such a case.

Mr Niwatthamrong expected the NACC to be able to summarize his testimony within next week before concluding the rice case in early May.

-- NNT 2014-04-25

So on Wednesday the 23rd Deputy Minister of Commerce Yanyong Puangrach told the NACC in a letter the whole 19.9 million tons was intact.

Then on Friday the 25th the Minister of Commerce Niwatthamrong Boonsongpaisan is telling them that only 13 million tons remain.

Has there been a quick sale or are the minister and his deputy out of step.?

And which or neither is telling the truth ?

I note again that the caretaker has been dropped from their title.

You have picked up on the obvious but there are so many questions unanswered (sure more detail would have been given to NACC)

19.9 M tons as of what date? has any more stock been received in that time?

2,135 B TBH has been gererated , which suggests gross income - how much of this is in the form of current assets (deposits and ACOUNTS RECIVABLE ?) Over what time frame was that income generated (this finical year only?)

What payments have been made from that and to whom? what are the associated current liabilities associated with that rice/sales.

What depreciation model are they using to calculate the price of rice when adjusting from world trading prices?

But the big question is what commissions have been paid to who and why were those commissions paid?

I guess that we will have to wait for the answers to those questions - I wonder if they will ever be answered in public

[ratcatcher]

Despite the constant attempts to destroy the rice scheme by self interested saboteors what we have here is good government policy working as it should for the betterment of the nation and its citizens.

Three cheers!

The rice scheme is finished. My Thai father in law still hadn't been paid for his rice since last October as has the guy who rents my wifes paddy.

Those farmers selling to the local rice mill were offered 4500 bht per tonne last week so they are effectively selling at a loss.

The rice scheme has destroyed the market for Thai rice at a level that gives the farmer any sort of livelyhood.

The alleged levels of rampant corruption simple do not exist.

The rice scheme is as clean as any Thai government policy can be and cleaner than many of Abhisit's policies

That's the reason why the NACC refuses to go and check the warehouses themselves for proof of missing rice.

Their content to rely on rumours and accusations rather than seek the truth because reality won't further their cause of pushing through trumped up charges against the nations leader.

The ship of state is slowly righting itself and shall soon be sailing through clear waters under blue skies with the same skipper at the helm.

The people have won.

"The ship of state is slowly righting itself and shall soon be sailing through clear waters under blue skies with the same skipper at the helm.

The people have won."

Troll feed warning:

Your analogy makes me think of the Costa Concordia just prior to the incident of 2012.

The state of this "ship of state" to which you refer is disgraceful. More like the skipper was sleeping at the helm.

And BTW the moon is made of blue cheese.