Sub soiler.

[aussieruss]

Any one done this if so results. Thanks Russell

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[cdmtdm]

more info russ .....

[kickstart]

Yes, and I have wrote about it on TV before.

On my ex rice paddy soil with a high water table I had mixed results .Biggest problem was finding a sub- soiler I had one made up the design was OK based on FAO design but the foot was too big ,did not go in the ground as far as it should have done ,only went in 18 -20 inches ,did not get though the pan, like it should have, also the tractor was an old 2 wheel drive Ford 6600, and the driver had never used one before ,drove it like he would a plough to fast, lifting it up on the hydraulics when the tractor wheels started to spin, never heard of the diff- lock on the tractor I think.

On one piece of land it worked OK ,water did not lay like it used to before ,but Thailand being a tropical country , with monsoon rains water will drain away slowly after a down pore of rain.

I am certain it improved soil structure ,soil could breath, roots are a lot healthier I used it on grass land .

One would work well on sand land ,as sand land can pan more so than another types of land.

If you could find a good sub soiler ,some of the machinery dealers in Chonburi might have an imported one, or find a good design and have one made up, and a good tractor and driver ,or do it yourself.

What did work well was the chisel plough/ cultivator I made up, that could be a better option ,it will work the land as well as braking up the pan .

I am certain at lest 70 % of land in Thailand needs some form of sub-soiling,with all the ploughing at the same depth ,tractor wheels spend half they time spining there has got to be a pann under the ground.

Yours Regs

KS

[aussieruss]

Hi KS thanks for your response. I have been looking at a agro plow ap10 here in oz this plow would need. 100-130 hp to be a good unit .I never see any one do anything with the seed bed just run the discs over and that's it. it would be good to retain some moisture down deep where I am near Korat we have very hard clay pan .if this works good like I think it could also be good for contracting to help pay for big tractor

Rgds Russell

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[kickstart]

I agree with you , on your clay soil you would need something to brake up the pan,I "think "a chisel plough/cultivator would be better ,would open the land up a treat .

For a sub soiler the conditions will have to be perfect ,if to wet all you will get is a set of tram lines ,with no shattering effect in the soil,to dry it will not go in the ground more than 20 inches, now where deep enough,as you said for deep down work ,2 foot + is needed,also for a sub soiler to work well,if you only have 1 leg row spacings will have to be no more than a 1-2 yards,at the most,to get the good shattering effct under ground,on a big block of land it wil take a long time and the fule cost,move on.

Have a play on Google loking at chisal plough's/ cultivators,as well as sub soiler's, the way they work,may help to make your mind up,also,cultivators are not so fussy on conditions.

I would think like you ,buy a 130 hp tractor,which you will need to make a goood job,and sub it out,but this is Thailand,things change slowly ,someting like this will take a lot of catching on, and a long time getting your investment back.

All the best.

Yours Regs

KS

[Canada]

Your hp needed will depend on the size of subsoiler you have. I use a subsoil fertiliser applicator. Only two legs, but my 90 hp will pull it pretty deep pretty easily in 4wd. If only 2wd, wheels start to slip usually at about 18 " deep. Depends on the field too. Normally I don't fertilise too deep for sour sugarcane, but I've sunk it pretty deep just to see what my tractor would do.

I've used it to break up a hard field before. Works well, but I needed to add weight to the implement to get it down in the first place. Dirt was like a parking lot.

[aussieruss]

Hi all I think there needs to be a change in the way the ground needs to be set up before crops are sown other than how it is done now(as I get told that's how we do it ) I am happy to bring some implements to the los but the taxes bother me but I will try to get some answers next time I am there in the los in July there just isn't enough choices. in the farming community. I think to many are held back from making a difference. Rgds Russell

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[Canada]

I tend to agree, but I am learning from my own experience here that there are reasons (good ones) for some of the things that they do. A lot of them are financial reasons. Farmers here do what they can with what they have. Sometimes there is such a small profit margin, that they will not do something that they should do as it just eats into the profit margin and does not contribute to it enough.... or there is risk that it will not increase yield for the extra cost. Those of us with enough money can afford to risk a new method or technology because we have a tractor of our own, or we can withstand the loss incurred if there is one.

[aussieruss]

Hi Canada I agree I have sat and looked at my inlaws all hard working farmers and I have looked at some family in oz with cropping farms and would like to try and marry the to together the wife and I have about 120rai and all the bil-sil have about250-300rai all in same village so when I retire in Sept if I can help better there crops and mine the less stress for me when I get there

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[kickstart]

Canada. You hit the nail on the head,it all boils down to money ,or lack of it , and the Thai way of not whanting to change anything, I know if it ani't broke do not fix it, but it could do with some modernization,doing the same things for the past 20-30 years .

But it is catch 22, for that 1 person to take a chance and change, more subsoiling,minimal cultivation,or a one pass system, especially for maize ,soya bean( this year some farmers direct drilled sunflows for the first time, with good results), and reap the beniffits of lower imputs,and a potential better returns. Or carry on as before,with as we all know the results. it will happen one day,our sunflowers for an example .

Some years ago I said some think like to a Thai farmer,he said 'it is all right for you to say ,you have EU subsidies we have very littal to nothing' not a lot I could say .

Aussieruss, do not think of importing a subsoiler have one made up here to your own desinge, or buy one and modify it ,we all complain at the Thai's,but when it comes to making thing they do not make a bad job ,a bit rough round the edges,but it works and will last I can think of at least 3 guys round here who could make one,probbaly the same where you are.

Canada ,your subsoiler does it have wings on,like a lot round here do , I would have thought they would have hindered the legs from going in to the ground to any depth,or are they ment more to spread the fertilizer,one time in the UK subsoilers had wing on ,but did not last long,not seen them for a long time.

Yours Regs.

KS

[Canada]

No wings on mine. I could go 3 ft down if I wanted to. It is designed and set up for fertiliser. It had cutting wheels on the front of it to cut the cane leaves left on the ground after harvest- so that they don't get all caught up on the legs. I took them off though because they never did run straight, most of us on larger fields burn and cut so may as well burn the scrap too. They are heavy, I should sell them for scrap.

The damn thing was expensive. I bought it at the New Holland dealer for 80,000 baht complete with double hoppers for fertiliser. You could get one made for a lot cheaper, but the fertiliser part of it may take some creativity. I runs off of a wheel that turns one auger for both hoppers. That means that one half of the auger feeds right and one half feeds left off the same rotation. Know what I mean??

The frame for the whole thing is as wide as the tractor and I could put front legs on it if I wanted....I could probably get about 8 legs all together on it, but I'm not sure my 90 hp would pull it if it was very deep.

We have started using drip irrigation for our fields. I'ver got 20 km of drip tape in the field right now. The Thais that have come to look would do the same if they had the money to start it off.

DR

[farmerjo]

If your thinking about bringing in some gear Aussieruss,i would be in the market for 6 300-350lbs breakout tyne assemblys(flexicoil or similar)

[aussieruss]

Hi all I think there is a good market for second hand plow equipment. if only could get the tax and duties man on side ?maybe a night at nana plaza. would do the trick:rolleyes:

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[Canada]

High end karaoke would be a better bet.

[kickstart]

If your thinking about bringing in some gear Aussieruss,i would be in the market for 6 300-350lbs breakout tyne assemblys(flexicoil or similar)

Belive it or not I have seen some flexicoil tyne's here in Thailand,what the brakout is I do not know,just the tyne's,no frame,that would be no problem,can soon make up a frame,will have a look round over the next few days.

Allso have seen a set of spring tyne"s,5 on a frame about 16000 bart or ,the tyne's only, last time I ased where 2000 bart each , they had " duck 's feet tyne's" on them would be ok for secondry cultivation's.,a bit light for ,non ploughed land. I think the idea here is for weeding bettween rows in sugar cane, more than land work. They are near me here in central Lopburi .

Yours Regs.

KS

[farmerjo]

Thanks KS,

Picture not real clear but something like this with a spring.

[kickstart]

The one's I have seen are the coil tines or ,as some call them pig tail's ,I now know your type,would have thought the coil tines they would do the same job,your spec on 300-350 brakeout,agine would have thought coil tines would match that,it would allso depend on ,land ,tractor hp,and how many tines are being pulled.

[farmerjo]

The one's I have seen are the coil tines or ,as some call them pig tail's ,I now know your type,would have thought the coil tines they would do the same job,your spec on 300-350 brakeout,agine would have thought coil tines would match that,it would allso depend on ,land ,tractor hp,and how many tines are being pulled.

Just had a quick google and they do make coil tyne up to 390 lb breakout.

The old rule of thumb we used was direct seeding 1 tyne equaled 10 horsepower.

(thats going in the ground 4- 6 inches with knife points.)

Will plug away till can find some with my old trusty thai corn seeder,the biggest problem with it they dont handle trash well and no breakout i have a little bit of rocky country not much but enough you dont want to be straightening bent tynes in the middle of seeding.Also would like to go to 10 inch spacings.

[kickstart]

The one's I have seen are the coil tines or ,as some call them pig tail's ,I now know your type,would have thought the coil tines they would do the same job,your spec on 300-350 brakeout,agine would have thought coil tines would match that,it would allso depend on ,land ,tractor hp,and how many tines are being pulled.

Just had a quick google and they do make coil tyne up to 390 lb breakout.

The old rule of thumb we used was direct seeding 1 tyne equaled 10 horsepower.

(thats going in the ground 4- 6 inches with knife points.)

Will plug away till can find some with my old trusty thai corn seeder,the biggest problem with it they dont handle trash well and no breakout i have a little bit of rocky country not much but enough you dont want to be straightening bent tynes in the middle of seeding.Also would like to go to 10 inch spacings.

I know what you mean, about the Thai corn drills they do not handle the trash well,as i said this year a lot of of sunflowers where direct drilled,mainly in to maize stubble ,they used the Thai drills,now with 2 angled discs on the frount,to cut a slot for seed to go ,a lot better than the old blunt blade,basicly a piece of 1/4 in plate steel welded on the frount of the dril that block's up, and if a bit wet crap sticks to the blade ,and the discs can cut though the trash well, these new drills are about 28000 bart .

[farmerjo]

Like you say KS,they have the gear here and its a matter of finding it.

First i've heard of the disc seeders here but ultimatly,thats what i want

Need to find out the manufacturers as i would like one purpose built.

An 8 row disc seeder on 5 inch spacings with individual seed and fert bins and say motorbike wheels as press wheels(and for sowing depth control) so can sow rice and corn would solve all my problems.(cat 3 lingkage)

Any budding engineers out there with time on their hands.

[kickstart]

Like you say KS,they have the gear here and its a matter of finding it.

First i've heard of the disc seeders here but ultimatly,thats what i want

Need to find out the manufacturers as i would like one purpose built.

An 8 row disc seeder on 5 inch spacings with individual seed and fert bins and say motorbike wheels as press wheels(and for sowing depth control) so can sow rice and corn would solve all my problems.(cat 3 lingkage)

Any budding engineers out there with time on their hands.

Interesting,an 8 row disc seeder on 5 inch spacings,that is a tall order, have seen plenty of 4 row seeders , the drill I wrote about was a 2 row, made localy.

The 5 inch spacings going to make things difficult,fitting the seed and fert bins in,going to be very narrow/tight fit,it could be done, or 1 bin per 2 rows.

I have seen a 12 row sugar beet drill, wider row spacings,I use to spend some of my summer walking up and down a beet field , weeding sugar beet with a hoe , must have been 18 inch spacings.

Have a look at at this new's clip might give you an idea, news.ch7.com> news > News .

[farmerjo]

Like you say KS,they have the gear here and its a matter of finding it.

First i've heard of the disc seeders here but ultimatly,thats what i want

Need to find out the manufacturers as i would like one purpose built.

An 8 row disc seeder on 5 inch spacings with individual seed and fert bins and say motorbike wheels as press wheels(and for sowing depth control) so can sow rice and corn would solve all my problems.(cat 3 lingkage)

Any budding engineers out there with time on their hands.

Interesting,an 8 row disc seeder on 5 inch spacings,that is a tall order, have seen plenty of 4 row seeders , the drill I wrote about was a 2 row, made localy.

The 5 inch spacings going to make things difficult,fitting the seed and fert bins in,going to be very narrow/tight fit,it could be done, or 1 bin per 2 rows.

I have seen a 12 row sugar beet drill, wider row spacings,I use to spend some of my summer walking up and down a beet field , weeding sugar beet with a hoe , must have been 18 inch spacings.

Have a look at at this new's clip might give you an idea, news.ch7.com> news > News .

Sorry didnt explain well enough.

8 rows but over a frame made to handle 4 rows at 10 inch spacing on front bar,4 rows at 10 inch spacings on rear bar,offset 5 inches to front bar.Only extra needed would be another drive spocket to marry the front and rear bar calibration.

[kickstart]

The 2 phots I took to-day not over good,but it gives you an idea of the tine's the ,ducks feet /hoe tines ,not a lot of good for land work,will have to find some more points,or as I did a piece of old pick up leaf spring with point on, welded on,works well,as I said the frame is way to light,would have to make up another frame .

The tine's are imported,I asked if they had any bigger ones they said no ,but I spoke to a staff member, not the owner who knows a lot more, she was not they,tine's are 1900 bart each.

They are at PNT Tractors,Pattananikom, in Lopburi 036 436202 . Got to be somewher else nearer to you ,wholesaler must be in BKK .

[kickstart]

Me again ,got the photes right,near here is an agriculture engineer ,makes all type of machinery, drills,muck spreaders, and now grabs to fit tractors,for sugar cain.

All the drills are now fited with disc's,mainly 2 row drills he has 1, 3 row drill in stock been going a few years he might be able to help you with your drill,or might know some one who can อู่ช่างเสริจ 036 638122 ,again, in Pattananikom, Lopburi, has done some one off jobs in the past.

All the best.

KS.

[kickstart]

Me again ,got the photes right,near here is an agriculture engineer ,makes all type of machinery, drills,muck spreaders, and now grabs to fit tractors,for sugar cain.

All the drills are now fited with disc's,mainly 2 row drills he has 1, 3 row drill in stock been going a few years he might be able to help you with your drill,or might know some one who can อู่ช่างเสริจ 036 638122 ,again, in Pattananikom, Lopburi, has done some one off jobs in the past.

All the best.

KS.

[farmerjo]

Me again ,got the photes right,near here is an agriculture engineer ,makes all type of machinery, drills,muck spreaders, and now grabs to fit tractors,for sugar cain.

All the drills are now fited with disc's,mainly 2 row drills he has 1, 3 row drill in stock been going a few years he might be able to help you with your drill,or might know some one who can อู่ช่างเสริจ 036 638122 ,again, in Pattananikom, Lopburi, has done some one off jobs in the past.

All the best.

KS.

Thanks KS for your input,am sure other readers appreciate it to.

Wil get the missus to call and see what they can do.

Cheers

[farmerjo]

Bit off topic,but thought i'd share a picture of my new boomsprayer.

I fitted the wheels after to take pressure of the hydraulics.

Grumble grumble,ordered a 10 metre wide boom with fibreglass tank and they sent me a 8 metre boom with an ibc as tank.

Sometimes you really have to bite your tongue and cop it on the chin.

On the bright side it enables me to only have to fill twice to do my biggest piece of land(75 rai) and less than 1 day to get over it.start to finish.

And it will save me approximately 100,000 baht a year on soil preparation when i get my disc seeder.

[NeverSure]

The 2 phots I took to-day not over good,but it gives you an idea of the tine's the ,ducks feet /hoe tines ,not a lot of good for land work,will have to find some more points,or as I did a piece of old pick up leaf spring with point on, welded on,works well,as I said the frame is way to light,would have to make up another frame .

The tine's are imported,I asked if they had any bigger ones they said no ,but I spoke to a staff member, not the owner who knows a lot more, she was not they,tine's are 1900 bart each.

They are at PNT Tractors,Pattananikom, in Lopburi 036 436202 . Got to be somewher else nearer to you ,wholesaler must be in BKK .

Sorry to butt in, but some keep talking about weight.

We always had a hydraulic top link for the 3 point. It was nothing more that a 2 way hydraulic ram with 3 point link fittings on the ends.

Most tractors have some place to take off auxiliary hydraulics. One might be used for a front end loader but there is always a way to get a second even if it T's off the loader to go first to its own control valve. Once you have that then none of the implements needs weight.

HERE'S one that's cat 2. I aways figure about US$500 all in for the cylinder, control valve, fittings and hoses. No idea what it would cost in LOS.

PS Once you have one you can't go back. It's also good for leveling implements. Instead of stopping the tractor and running the threads on the top link, you just touch the control lever for the ram.

Edited May 6, 2014 by NeverSure

[farmerjo]

We talk about weight for even depth control probably more on 2 and 3 row implements and in harder soil types.

Precision implements have come along way in the last 15 years.

Stronger heavier frames with bigger breakout tynes for one pass farming,specially in low rainfall areas.

I think the hydraulic ram is a great idea if you have the right tynes and points on a single row implement,but for me its always good to stop ocasionally and have a look around and see whats falling off my machines before it falls off.

And for me my 4 disc plow and other ploughs are a thing of the past on my land.

Now its going to be minimum or zero till and a deep rip every 7 years.

Margins are a lot tighter now from the days of just trashing a crop in after working it 2 times before.

[kickstart]

We talk about weight for even depth control probably more on 2 and 3 row implements and in harder soil types.

Precision implements have come along way in the last 15 years.

Stronger heavier frames with bigger breakout tynes for one pass farming,specially in low rainfall areas.

I think the hydraulic ram is a great idea if you have the right tynes and points on a single row implement,but for me its always good to stop ocasionally and have a look around and see whats falling off my machines before it falls off.

And for me my 4 disc plow and other ploughs are a thing of the past on my land.

Now its going to be minimum or zero till and a deep rip every 7 years.

Margins are a lot tighter now from the days of just trashing a crop in after working it 2 times before.

Got to agree with you ,ploughs are a thing of the past ,in the uk margins are tight even with EU subsides,more farmers are going to a one pass system ,allso the time and labour factor,more corn being planted in the autumn, some years a short window,finding good labour is becoming hard , less and less people are going in to farming now days,

One day it will happen here.

I think a deep rip every 7 years is to long ,do not know your soil type, but I think 3-4 years would be better especially,as most years ,you can get 2 crops a year,lot more compaction on the land

I like your shead a single span building,not offten you see one,I get fed up with these Thai building with post every 4 yards,like my cattle shead ,trying to work in one, with a tractor with no power steering hard work,at a guess, your design.

Like to wish you all the best ,keep us posted on how it is going.

Yours Regs

KS