Bad experience at a private hospital cardiology department

[Krataiboy]

Private hospitals and clinics are motivated by profit. Government hospitals are there to provide affordable care for the sick. Hands up all those who are surprised when private hospitals rip them off?

[Mario2008]

A moderator giving medical advice ?

All advice is given under the forum rules: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/224498-health-forum-rules

Sheryl is a health profesional.

[soalbundy]

Private hospitals and clinics are motivated by profit. Government hospitals are there to provide affordable care for the sick. Hands up all those who are surprised when private hospitals rip them off?

From my experiences described a few posts above this one, my hand is up.

[misterphil]

I know of someone who went to a private hospital here with swollen testicles. They wanted to remove his testicles so he went back to his home country for a second opinion. A few tablets and a few days later and he was fine.

[Card]

Thread title and some posts have been edited to remove the hospital name, both because of Thai defamation laws and also because it is simply unfair to label an entire hospital based on experience with one out of hundreds of doctors there. Bad doctors can be found in all hospitals, and I know for a fact, from, first hand experience, that there are many excellent doctors at the hospital the OP initially went to.

A statement like "they are only interested in extracting the contents of your wallet not helping you" makes absolutely no sense because a hospital is not a "they", it is a building. Doctors in private hospitals are not employees of the hospital, they are independent professionals who have an arrangement with the hospital to use their facilities for out-patient consultations and to admit patients to it. Many -- indeed most -- have this arrangement at more than one hospital.

Whatever hospital one goes to, need to carefully choose the doctor. Many hospitals - including the one OP originally went to -- lists doctor qualifications on their website, making it easy to pre-select one with top qualifications. The kind of behavior described is not likely to be encountered among the top doctors, sounds more like a mediocre one trying to drum up business. The ones with top qualifications have no need to do anything like that.

All that said, it does indeed sound like the OP was taken for something of a ride -- by an individual doctor, not by a hospital. OP should however keep tabs on the narrowing of the coronary artery (though it has nothing to do, one way or the other, with the murmur). Annual stress tests (which cost about 2,000 baht only) are fine for that purpose. Should also attend to any risk factors you may have in terms of smoking, diet etc...in order not to end up genuinely needing a stent.

Some of this may be true, but it is well known, and my experience in several private hospitals that the hospital management expect the doctors to prescribe medicines that are overpriced and over subscribed. That's partly how the private hospitals make money, as well as on unspecified charges on the final bill. I am not sure but I also understand that the blood pressure tests that are given routinely before seeing a doctor are in fact charged for without even being asked. I have also been recommended unnecessary consultations regarding my heart, when a young doctor almost wrung his hands in glee at the prospect of giving me new special expensive tests to detect borderline results on my stress tests. It turned out after some time and after I had increased my fitness myself, that I was just unfit. My heart is perfectly normal in stress tests now. Another case is that I suffer a little bit of tendonitis and a specialist recommended some useless creams to put on it. I was prescribed about 5 big tubes of the stuff, which I threw away after finding they didn't work. I was new to thailand at the time and now query bills, but they still try it on. I have also had band aids changed by a specialist with 3 nurses looking on - all to be paid for, and cheap painkillers charged at exhorbitant prices. I disagree that problems with doctors are always individual. They have to come up with a strategy to pay their own hospital fees, as well as the hospital management policies. I am also suspicious of Thai doctor's relationships with drug firms and medical insurance companies. Now there is a study worth carrying out.

[soalbundy]

Thread title and some posts have been edited to remove the hospital name, both because of Thai defamation laws and also because it is simply unfair to label an entire hospital based on experience with one out of hundreds of doctors there. Bad doctors can be found in all hospitals, and I know for a fact, from, first hand experience, that there are many excellent doctors at the hospital the OP initially went to.

A statement like "they are only interested in extracting the contents of your wallet not helping you" makes absolutely no sense because a hospital is not a "they", it is a building. Doctors in private hospitals are not employees of the hospital, they are independent professionals who have an arrangement with the hospital to use their facilities for out-patient consultations and to admit patients to it. Many -- indeed most -- have this arrangement at more than one hospital.

Whatever hospital one goes to, need to carefully choose the doctor. Many hospitals - including the one OP originally went to -- lists doctor qualifications on their website, making it easy to pre-select one with top qualifications. The kind of behavior described is not likely to be encountered among the top doctors, sounds more like a mediocre one trying to drum up business. The ones with top qualifications have no need to do anything like that.

All that said, it does indeed sound like the OP was taken for something of a ride -- by an individual doctor, not by a hospital. OP should however keep tabs on the narrowing of the coronary artery (though it has nothing to do, one way or the other, with the murmur). Annual stress tests (which cost about 2,000 baht only) are fine for that purpose. Should also attend to any risk factors you may have in terms of smoking, diet etc...in order not to end up genuinely needing a stent.

Some of this may be true, but it is well known, and my experience in several private hospitals that the hospital management expect the doctors to prescribe medicines that are overpriced and over subscribed. That's partly how the private hospitals make money, as well as on unspecified charges on the final bill. I am not sure but I also understand that the blood pressure tests that are given routinely before seeing a doctor are in fact charged for without even being asked. I have also been recommended unnecessary consultations regarding my heart, when a young doctor almost wrung his hands in glee at the prospect of giving me new special expensive tests to detect borderline results on my stress tests. It turned out after some time and after I had increased my fitness myself, that I was just unfit. My heart is perfectly normal in stress tests now. Another case is that I suffer a little bit of tendonitis and a specialist recommended some useless creams to put on it. I was prescribed about 5 big tubes of the stuff, which I threw away after finding they didn't work. I was new to thailand at the time and now query bills, but they still try it on. I have also had band aids changed by a specialist with 3 nurses looking on - all to be paid for, and cheap painkillers charged at exhorbitant prices. I disagree that problems with doctors are always individual. They have to come up with a strategy to pay their own hospital fees, as well as the hospital management policies. I am also suspicious of Thai doctor's relationships with drug firms and medical insurance companies. Now there is a study worth carrying out.

Doctors relationships with drug firms is a world wide problem and well known. I believe a case is being investigated now in the UK.

[bankei]

I would llike to get a general health check done on my heart. I am not sure what I need but an EKG? Treadmill hooked with heart rate monitored during exercise sort of thing, stroke early warning signs etc.

Does anyone know of a hospital where this can be performed? The biig one in Nana offers it but also includes all these other tests which I don't need some the charge is up around 9,000B.

Bankei

[Balance]

Sounds like the doc followed a U.S. protocol with regard to the testing. That is to say, a heavy CYA approach to medicine. I recently went for my every two year full body skin check. I have always been in the sun a lot, for work and for play, but I tan and no one has every found a basal cell on me. But, I go anyway. The young Derm had just come back from a U.S. training program in cosmetics for Derms. She look me over and was very surprised that I did not have any problems given how dark I was. But she did find a small (1 mm) raised area on my face and said I should get a biopsy done. I agreed. So, the bill goes from TB500 to TB3000. There have been a lot of people who have died from melanoma because a doc missed something or did not think it was important.

It is all about risk. Your appetite for it, knowledge of medicine, ability to manage the process, and how much money you have. I this case, I presume that the company was picking up the bill, which also plays into the mix.

[sugarcane24]

I had a similar experience in Fiji - suffered from pain chests and shortness of breath so got a doctor to check it out. She did an ECG and had me admitted to a private hospital for observation. There they ran all sorts of tests, got me to stay the night and charged me about $800 the tests and my stay. On discharging me the doctor advised me to visit a specialist on returning to New Zealand in case of stents might be necessary and prescribed me some blood-thinning aspirin pills and some nitroglycerin pills I was supposed to take if the tightness in my chest were to return. I did feel the symptoms return and on taking one of the nitroglycerin pills my heart started to pound like a sledge hammer! I therefore took only half a pill the next time but again my heart pounded like mad, so I threw the aspirin and the nitroglycerine in the rubbish.

On my return to New Zealand I read up about stents in Lynne McTaggarts great book 'What Doctors Don't Tell You' and immediately decided against seeing a specialist. My chest and heart have been perfectly fine in the years since this happened.I later figured out that my problems had been stress-related.

I also went to a hospital here in Bangkok for a medical check-up because I was feeling chronically fatigued (possibly because I was teaching English to 8-year-olds at the time!). The doctor ran all kind of tests including an HIV test (which I later found out is a complete fraud) and a syphilis test which I agreed to even though I thought it was silly. I drew the line at getting a Hepatitis B vaccination he recommended. There was no way I would let him inject me with this genetically engineered vaccine which has a horrendous track record. as

I also went to a doctor once to get a medical certificate for the school wher I worked to attest that I was genuinely sick with the flu. That however wasn't as easy as one would think because he also prescribed me a bunch of pills I was instructed to pick up from the pharmacy. Each type of pill had a different gaudy colour an was neatly packed in its own plastic bag, one type of pill for each symptom: fever, cough, headache, nausea. I never took any of them. Talk about drug pushers! It must cost the country a fortune to medicate the population with these poisons!

[chubby]

my understanding is that even here in the good 'ol USA, stents are overused, probably as surgeons with a particular hammer, feel they see nails, because they have that hammer, who knows on Thai medical ethics, how much of TIT filters into the what type of hospital, good luck on that

[atyclb]

A 'second division' hospital, the name of which is directly similar to the late Italian film director's second/middle name, and which is to be found very close to the BTS line, has made some considerable investment lately and is still a lot less expensive than the place with Soda parlors. I was required to stay overnight there last year, and the room/nursing were very good.

As of this year, XRays there have become automated (screen transfer), just like the hospitals which have names beginning with the first letters of honey-producing insects. Your doctor can now see your Xray without a porter carrying it 500 meters in a brown envelope.

Although I would not imagine that this hospital does trunk aortic daflon grafts or DNA analysis every day, it seems absolutely fine for most surgical and medical procedures, and costs about 50% of the Soda Pop Shop.

Eddy

No issue with naming this facility in this instance; the problem with the OP's case is the Thai defamation law one. This clearly puts Thai Visa at risk of getting dragged into a legal case. Same with the forum rule on posting on acquisition of drugs etc "illegally" ie without prescription when required..

In addition to defamation theres the issue of a hospital being a tv advertiser and conflict of interest should a poster be allowed to include the name of facility.

[thaicookingchef]

Who anyway trusts any doctor in this world ? They all are paid by labs or want to make more money for their hospital because they own shares...

[lopburi3]

I would llike to get a general health check done on my heart. I am not sure what I need but an EKG? Treadmill hooked with heart rate monitored during exercise sort of thing, stroke early warning signs etc.

Does anyone know of a hospital where this can be performed? The biig one in Nana offers it but also includes all these other tests which I don't need some the charge is up around 9,000B.

Bankei

How do you know you do not need the other tests? If you are having care then just ask your current doctor and he will limit to what tests he believes are required. If not it would make sense for most of use to have a complete physical and go from there. Most are heavenly discounted so may not be any more expensive and may show up something that needs attention. But am sure you could directly consult intervention cardiologist and schedule specific tests from him. In my case only EKG (bad) followed by stress test (worse) preceded operation/stents (but I was under regular care and this was found as pre-op testing).

[ttthailand]

I recently visited a hospital near Ekkamai BTS for an HIV test. They spoke Limited English, took my blood and screwed up my arm, handed me back some other guys results which I later discovered, waited over an hour to talk to someone regarding all these problems with no one to come, promised a call the next day which never came.... And the story goes on but TIT and you better look out and do your homework before doing anything in these Hospitals.

[atyclb]

an incidental finding, an asymptomatic murmur per OP that led to a battery of tests.

although docs may be hospital employees theres often financial incentives in them doing lots of tests and procedures. its bad enough in the usa and given the thai ethics model could likely be even worse.

in usa cardiologists are infamous for doing unnecessary procedures to rack up tremendous billing. there have even been scandals, prosecutions, likely loss of medical license, and even prison time. google it. the age of catheterizations and stent placement (very similar procedure) hospitals do not at all resent high revenues from such doctors, departments, procedures. such departments usually wirld significant clout with administration.

my interpretation of the OP is not that he had a negative experience with an entire building or an entire hospital but that he had an issue with a specific doctor at cardiology.

anywhere profit can be augmented there can/will be pressure to undergo possible unnecessary testing and or buy unnecessary medication. one big private hospital is well known for pressuring its doctors to sell, sell and sell, even have patients buy a few months supply of hospital pharmacy medication at 3 times the normal price of outside pharmacies. i had a positive experience at the er of a big private hospital yet i was with someone that took her 1 year old to the er with significantly high fever and a cbc was not done (usa standard of care)

personally i have had positive experiences at chula and rama hospitals. you wait a long time, may not have air conditioning, but they have no financial incentive to do unnecessary tests / procedures.

[Maipenraika]

When I'm in Bangkok I usually have a check up,or if I'm sick visit one on the more well known hospitals in Bangkok and I must say I find their standards slipping. I don't like having my weight,temperature & personal details done in the waiting room and then to be sent to one specialist after another,then to get hit with a bill equivalent to aust. Also having to pay for numerous drugs that are completely unnecessary and not asked if I I'm on BP meds. I refused to pay for the medication except antibiotics , one of the meds he had prescribed would have affected my BP if I had high blood pressure. The hospitals need to wind back 5 years,when the service were far superior to western country's.

[Gandtee]

If my heart murmurs I would not be able to hear due to old age induced deafness. I have survived for eighty years despite the medical professions best efforts and try not to take medicines where I think my own body, given time, will correct the problem. I have no doubt that the chickens will come home to roost one day and I will get my comeuppance.

[Jonmarleesco]

True of many private hospitals here; a friend and client had a go at the CEO of one well known international one, regarding their push for unnecessary tests. I have, though, had no such issues with another well known international hospital - although their fees are not cheap. But in deference to the anonymity often accorded Thai firms here who, no matter how incompetent their service or dubious their product, can call upon defamation as a sham defence, I shan't name that hospital, even though the comment is favourable.

[Mrjlh]

To the OP....Ever thought about getting a "second opinion"?

Unbelievable... but to be expected, we have a bunch of whiners on this board.

Edited April 30, 2014 by Mrjlh

[akentryan]

Reporting a really great bargain if you live near Pattaya. Phayathai-Sriracha hospital runs a fairly complete physical exam each year (the 2014 offer ends today) for 3,990 baht. Included are CT calcium scoring, chest x-ray, abdominal ultrasound, EKG, eye exam, kidney function test , liver function test, urine exam and a complete blood work up. I added the liver, bladder, prostate cancer marker tests for another 1,600 baht. A doctor goes over problem areas afterward. Even threw in a free breakfast. Reports provided and disks if requested. They do not try to sell you any services at any time during or after the exam. About as pleasant as any medical experience of late. Highly recommend it.

[Tywais]

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[Ulic]

My mothers experience, at Bangkok Pattaya hospital was this. She went to the emergency department experiencing rapid atrial fibrillation.

(she takes dijoxin daily) She has had this before in Canada also she is a retired cardio vascular intensive care nurse. She was quickly and efficiently

attended to by a nurse. Blood work/heart history was taken as well as EKG. A cardiac specialist was called for by the attending doctor. He arrived.

Read the EKG results (as did my mother) results were fine. He called for a chest (heart) x-ray. She asked why,(and declined) he wanted to admit her

for 3 days observation, she said why, she has experienced this on several occasions in Canada and has never been admitted to hospital. Just given

a dijoxin drip and then sent home when her heart rhythm returned to normal. The doctor left saying he would be back in an hour. 3 hours later he

had not returned. When we asked if he was returning we were give a message that unless we did everything he said starting with being admitted for

three days observation the refused to treat her. So we left, declining to pay for the Doctors consultations as they did nothing. The nurse was

excellent quick and efficient. Everything was expensive (the same charges as Canada, if one were paying in Canada and not covered by the

national health plan) We paid the bill, went home, she doubled down on her dijoxin dose, and 4 hours later she was fine. Now my mother with 30

years working in cardio vascular intensive care was puzzled at things like x-rays and admission for days of observation for something that was to

her straight forward.Some may think it was a clear case of bill padding. You can reach your own conclusion. I would say the public/private

combination hospital is probably the best choice of hospitals.

Edited April 30, 2014 by Ulic

[ubonjoe]

Since this topic has met it's it's purpose and turned into just comments about Thai visa policy and moderator actions it is now closed.