Kerry just delivered final warning to Russia

[Pralaad]

As have said before, but it was deleted, Your pride of being American is applaudable, but your understanding needs some serious growth. Why do not you ask your wife if Russia can hurt US economically

What recession are you talking about? US is printing money like micky mouse stickers with trillions in debt,

US can release oil reserves to reduce the prices? and who will it hurt?

May be you did not know but Russia is an oil rich country, http://www.whichcountry.co/top-10-largest-oilI-producing-countries-in-the-world/

I am sorry but i will not be wasting my time educating, you can believe whatever you like and time will tell.which one of us was/is right or wrong

Rising oil prices would destabilize the only commodity keeping Russia out of a full blown economic melt down.

I am not chest thumping. I am speaking economic facts not subjective beliefs.

--------

Much of the success of the Russian economy under Vladimir Putin over the past 13-14 years has been largely attributed to high oil and commodity prices, so if oil prices fall, Russia could be heavily exposed.

Oil prices are the Achilles heel of the Russian economy, according to Robert Bensh, an advisor to Mr. Boyko on Western capital markets and political systems.

Twelve years ago, the Russian federal budget balanced at $22 per barrel for oil. Today it is at $110 per barrel, said Bensh, who has been leading oil and gas companies in Ukraine for 13 years.

And if the US could get OPEC to help put further pressure on oil prices, the effect would be much more significant.

Imagine a fall to $80 per barrel and the concomitant affect that would have on an already recessed Russian economy, its balance sheet and its markets. At $80 or lower, the Russian economy would head deeper into recession, the budget and current accounts would run significant deficits, capital flight would accelerate markedly, depleting FX reserves and putting hefty downside pressure on the [Russian] ruble.

http://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/US-Using-Oil-to-Fight-Russian-Gas-Politics-in-Ukraine.html

Falling prices will hurt Russia just as much as US, the only difference is Russia is NOT the one in trillion dollar debts.

Furthermore Saudi's will never allow for oil to go below $85 which means US$ will be dumped as a trading currency, which again will only hurt US

Watch and learn. Haha, US makes money whether prices go up or down. Lower crude prices help US economy.

Crude has dipped below $80 in August 2011. June delivery is around $100 and dropping already.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pi5jH0xu3tM

[Trouble]

Treats made by Kerry and Obama are futile. Sure something needs to be stated publicly that reaching some kind of conclusion in a peaceful way is necessary, but these threats are pointless and only make Kerry and Obama look helpless. Putin is running the show in Russia. Obama is running nothing. Obama came to the Presidency with absolutely no experience in international political affairs nor the ability to orchestrate anything in the way of building consensus among people. He is divisive in his handling of internal political affairs and weak in his handling international affairs. I am in agreement with many in that the United States influence in the world is declining. While the US is able to use its money and military to influence things, this is waning. There are more powerful forces at work which are basically beyond the ability of any one country or group of countries to influence outcomes. While I do not claim to be knowledgeable of all the internal politics of the Ukraine, it is clear that there are ethnic, political, and economic differences among the peoples and regions of the Ukraine. Putin is taking advantage of these differences just as the United States has taken advantage of situations like this in the past. The United States must somehow come to the conclusion that it cannot influence everything that goes on in the world be it Afghanistan, Iraq, Syria, the Middle East, or the Ukraine. It is time the US stopped playing the chess game on the world chess board and rebuilt itself as a world economic power. Obama and Kerry cannot compete with Putin. The more is see of Putin, the more I think his intellect is far superior to Obama. He may not be a nice guy but he is a smarter guy.

[Jingthing]

The bluff has worked on some. Putin is a player but his hand is WEAK. This is going to end in big time tears for Russia thanks to their dictator Putin.

[slipperylobster]

Falling prices will hurt Russia just as much as US, the only difference is Russia is NOT the one in trillion dollar debts.

Furthermore Saudi's will never allow for oil to go below $85 which means US$ will be dumped as a trading currency, which again will only hurt US

Watch and learn. Haha, US makes money whether prices go up or down. Lower crude prices help US economy.

Crude has dipped below $80 in August 2011. June delivery is around $100 and dropping already.

Can Russia affect the US Economy?

Well, a small cadre of hijackers were able to make Wall Street ripple for a few months.

I suppose Russia can imply a threat, simply by starting a New Cold War Era.

The flip side of the coin will be the buildup of new military stuff the USA will have to implement, All those jobs in Aviation, Electronics, Technology and Nuclear physics! It is going to be a golden age of employment for Americans. Not to mention the upsurge in American Nationalism....the pulling together of a Nation more diverse in population than the world has never known. Now this is just going to make us the strongest kid on the block, albeit, the most unpopular. If you resent us now...just wait for Putin to stir it up. Europeans should be thinking how unlivable it will be to have Crazy Russians on one side, and obnoxious Americans on the other.

So what the hay is Putin thinking?

One last thing....the American Economy is like the teenage son who just got the keys to the car, and a wad of cash for a night out. Looking good, as we always do, he goes out in the neighborhood, bangs all the gals, makes babies, and then these gals keep calling him to help out. Well the kid is having the time of his life.

Russia, on the other hand, is the sad sack who sleeps alone every night, and never gets laid.

[slipperylobster]

National Security, historically.

When people get fat, dumb and lazy, that Nation/Empire gets weak. Go ask a Roman.

The U.S. was getting that way, but thanks to a direct attack on our homeland, we are out and about...once again.

If anybody can play cards here, you can see that Putin is going to be struggling with this.

Knee jerk reactions to threats are military buildups...which the US is pretty well experienced in.

Russia is trying to pull stuff together and play catch up......still sucking hind titty though.

For those who think the world must suck everything in, and hide their small faces in the sand.....well, thats what Hitler loved the most about you.....

Edited April 27, 2014 by slipperylobster

[slipperylobster]

As to personalities - Obama is no match to Putin.

One speaks reason, is calm, logical, presents factual arguments and has real power (not a Good Thing).

The other one utters only slogans, is emotional, illogical, presents rumors cooked by mass media and has no real power in his country ( a Good Thing).

The rest of the world is placing bets on favourites, on who is stronger, who is more resolved and who will win. I am afraid it is a no win situation.

Oh yeah??? Just wait until Hillary gets in....or Sarah.

Putin would be better off conceding to Obama than these ladies.

You forget one thing.....Dictatorship...and Dickatership

The west is...sort of..a Democracy....Russia is not... you are mixing fruits, my friend...by sizing up one against the other.

Putin would rather lose to a man, than a gal.....I suspect.

Edited April 27, 2014 by slipperylobster

[Thaiready]

obushma/Kerry threaten nothing but adding sanctions (the G-7 did), certainly not military action. Russia, China etc. laugh at the US, a paper tiger who's technologically advanced military can't win a war against a bunch of rag tag rebels. Like Vietnam, winning battles does not win a war, not in these days and times. The only people that he really threatens are American citizens that he has NSA, FBI, CIA etc. spying on and our whistle blowers. He certainly is no Marxist, Communist, Socialist, Populist, liberal or anything else resembling a President that cares about true democracy. Fascist maybe, certainly that is where the corporate police state is headed. He has done more to destroy the Constitution than cheney/bush et al and they belong in GitMo. He is nothing but a bankster/Wall Street puppet, a Manchurian president. Many hate him for all the wrong reasons, ah duh color, especially the right wing. Kerry is no longer part of the solution, he is part of the problem along with obushma. He is not the man I thought I once knew.

Actually, US can win and has won the conflicts, but they cannot change these country's thought processes or stop their infighting that will continue during the attempt to maintain security stages. US could have turned these little countries to rubble, or worse glass marbles, but US agenda was more surgical in nature.

What history has shown is an effort to fight wars surgically and by attempting to mitigate collateral damage does not work and leaves our troops exposed.

While Russia military capability has rebounded in the last 15 years, they still are perhaps somewhat limited. Russians, however, would fight a conflict without concern about collateral damage unlike US who is always worried about how the rest of the world views the US.

-----------

http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=5629836

Do name conflicts where US has won or achieved it's objectives?

Europe.......WWII

[Norrad]

I think he means a conflict in which the US was there from the start, not one that they joined far later and helped influence the final outcome.

Sent from my GT-S5300 using Tapatalk 2

[slipperylobster]

Please do not list all the conflicts/wars/engagementts won.

I think this man, if he was a military man should look up some history.

This said from The Halls of Montezuma to the Shores of Tripoli

yes...there are a few that remain faithful

Semper Fi

do not crap on my flag

[Ulysses G.]

I don't think that Semper Fi is going to matter much with the present administration and Putin recognizes that. He is sitting in the catbird seat now.

[NeverSure]

No they can't. The US is by far the largest buyer of Chinese exports. If the US put an embargo on those exports, China's trade balance would go so far into the red they'd never recover. They won't mess with that.

The US has 3x as much oil reserves as all the rest of the world combined, and 100 years of natural gas already drilled and ready. In just 2 years the US will pass Saudi Arabia as the world's #1 oil producer and OPEC will lose its clout. The US buys very little oil from OPEC anyway. It's Europe that does.

The US could supply its allies in Europe with oil and natural gas and leave Putin out in the cold.

As for those who love to mention US debt, it's about the same as the UK's as a percentage of GDP, and far less than Japan's. But the UK and Japan don't have the natural resources to use to lift themselves up.

As for military power if it comes to that, I got this from Wikipedia, and it doesn't mention superior technology which the US has in spades.

No they can't.

Miitary spending by country:

[slipperylobster]

I don't think that Semper Fi is going to matter much with the present administration and Putin recognizes that. He is sitting in the catbird seat now.

Tweety always won against Sylvester.... from what I can remember.

Reminds me of more fairy tales....like the tortoise and the hare.

All these references to such, make light of the facts....

Strong or Weak, White or Black, Right or Wrong..... all are extemes.

The world works in shades of grey.

All that glitters is not gold

Weak men sleep at night because there are rough men ready to do violence on their behalf

sleep well.

[slipperylobster]

Well Sweet Jesus, I suppose since we Americans are always doing it wrong, that perhaps we just go ahead and play dead for twenty years....like ole Rip Van Winkle did. Wake up in the forest with a long beer, scratch our lazy backsides, and look over that big pond to check on the EU. Let them monkeys fix everything up their own way. I bet there might be a few of those Brits, Germans, and whatever left to tell the story. Paris will be looking just as Romantic in the Spring with the Kremlin parked in Versailles.

I hope you're joking. Nobody is blaming the American people for the stupidity of your politicians.

This isn't the Cold War days, Russia has more than enough resources and doesn't need to expand its empire. They can cut of gas supplies to western Europe to make those countries see some sense.

I think you believe "Team America:World Police" is just an idiotic movie made by a couple of stoners.

Why doesn't America bring "democracy" to other dictatorships then? Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Kuwait and Kazakhstan to name a few? Hmm, let me ponder on double standards for a minute or twenty years.

Actually, if we dug up either General Patton or MacArthur, they would be cursing all our Presidents, since Truman, for letting the Russians have their way. Same with China and Korea. World Order should have been completed in post Hitler Days. Waiting so long only served to empower the Axis...... and they have woken from their hibernation.... and awfully hungry

Our Christian Heritage has made us the paper tiger that people imagine (of course it is not true) we are. Our benevolence has made the bear courageous, once again.

Edited April 28, 2014 by slipperylobster

[sgtsabai]

With the exception of Kuwait-The First Gulf War (had plenty of help there), the US has not won a major war or conflict since WWII, alone or not. I don't count Panama or Grenada, tad bit of an 'over match', but you can if you wish. Not to say the US hasn't been responsible for some 'regime change' here and there, unknown to most Americans. When I talk with the folks back from Iraq and Afghanistan they sound just like we did, substitute Vietnam for either and interchange sand and jungle. Sad state of affairs, it isn't pretty what they say and have said for years. The US is in no shape to go starting more unnecessary wars and the world knows it. Kerry/obushma can implement sanctions, but if there is any sanity left in Washington (doubtful) they will stay out of 'bombs away' and 'boots on the ground'. I do study a bit of history (history minor in college), I would reccommend all do and not just US propaganda. Try a little of Howard Zinn's work. I do not watch the US right wing neocon propaganda network-faux (not the) news, except to know my enemy. Semper Fi, Sgt USMC Vietnam 1966/67

[slipperylobster]

With the exception of Kuwait-The First Gulf War (had plenty of help there), the US has not won a major war or conflict since WWII, alone or not. I don't count Panama or Grenada, tad bit of an 'over match', but you can if you wish. Not to say the US hasn't been responsible for some 'regime change' here and there, unknown to most Americans. When I talk with the folks back from Iraq and Afghanistan they sound just like we did, substitute Vietnam for either and interchange sand and jungle. Sad state of affairs, it isn't pretty what they say and have said for years. The US is in no shape to go starting more unnecessary wars and the world knows it. Kerry/obushma can implement sanctions, but if there is any sanity left in Washington (doubtful) they will stay out of 'bombs away' and 'boots on the ground'. I do study a bit of history (history minor in college), I would reccommend all do and not just US propaganda. Try a little of Howard Zinn's work. I do not watch the US right wing neocon propaganda network-faux (not the) news, except to know my enemy. Semper Fi, Sgt USMC Vietnam 1966/67

Winning does not always mean a military victory. The hill may have been taken, the war technically lost...but our heritage and spirit survive. People have tasted freedom, and have tasted what it is like to make their own money. Winning sometimes means admitting that we must leave. But in leaving, hopefully the ignorant and misinformed have learned something about what it means to have a country that you love...

.

A man without pride in his country is only half....as a man without faith is lost completely. I am not talking about religion...but humanity in general.

[slipperylobster]

People who think weak oil prices are bad for Russia should bear in mind that are WAY BADDER for the dollar.

Simply put....expensive oil means more demand for $ wordwide to buy it....so the Fed can print to its heart's content.

Both the US and Russia have a vital interest in leeping the oil prices sky-high.

Now you can see all the shit-stirring in the middle east -by both powers- in a new light.

High 'geopolitical risk' equals high oil prices.

As for the conflict in the Ukraine ,Anerica will do nothing...other than posturing.

They start wars with basketcase countries that they know they can win....Russia is a no-no.

I would not call Germany nor Japan (as they felt obliged to act first in the last century) as basket case countries.

Terrorists yes...basket cases....and they are still being pulled out of their holes and hiding places.

[daveAustin]

Oh gawd, the wide heads are out! And you guys wonder why most of the rest of the world can't stand you. Wind your heads in.

Go Putin

[Asiantravel]

With the exception of Kuwait-The First Gulf War (had plenty of help there), the US has not won a major war or conflict since WWII, alone or not. I don't count Panama or Grenada, tad bit of an 'over match', but you can if you wish. Not to say the US hasn't been responsible for some 'regime change' here and there, unknown to most Americans. When I talk with the folks back from Iraq and Afghanistan they sound just like we did, substitute Vietnam for either and interchange sand and jungle. Sad state of affairs, it isn't pretty what they say and have said for years. The US is in no shape to go starting more unnecessary wars and the world knows it. Kerry/obushma can implement sanctions, but if there is any sanity left in Washington (doubtful) they will stay out of 'bombs away' and 'boots on the ground'. I do study a bit of history (history minor in college), I would reccommend all do and not just US propaganda. Try a little of Howard Zinn's work. I do not watch the US right wing neocon propaganda network-faux (not the) news, except to know my enemy. Semper Fi, Sgt USMC Vietnam 1966/67

Winning does not always mean a military victory. The hill may have been taken, the war technically lost...but our heritage and spirit survive. People have tasted freedom, and have tasted what it is like to make their own money. Winning sometimes means admitting that we must leave. But in leaving, hopefully the ignorant and misinformed have learned something about what it means to have a country that you love...

.

A man without pride in his country is only half....as a man without faith is lost completely. I am not talking about religion...but humanity in general.

It's very admirable of you to try and use the glass is half full argument but not when your country is up to its neck in debt and your infrastructure at home is literally crumbling. The money would be far better spent in your own schools and reinforcing your very fragile power grid than in helping someone else in another country to win a hill

[slipperylobster]

With the exception of Kuwait-The First Gulf War (had plenty of help there), the US has not won a major war or conflict since WWII, alone or not. I don't count Panama or Grenada, tad bit of an 'over match', but you can if you wish. Not to say the US hasn't been responsible for some 'regime change' here and there, unknown to most Americans. When I talk with the folks back from Iraq and Afghanistan they sound just like we did, substitute Vietnam for either and interchange sand and jungle. Sad state of affairs, it isn't pretty what they say and have said for years. The US is in no shape to go starting more unnecessary wars and the world knows it. Kerry/obushma can implement sanctions, but if there is any sanity left in Washington (doubtful) they will stay out of 'bombs away' and 'boots on the ground'. I do study a bit of history (history minor in college), I would reccommend all do and not just US propaganda. Try a little of Howard Zinn's work. I do not watch the US right wing neocon propaganda network-faux (not the) news, except to know my enemy. Semper Fi, Sgt USMC Vietnam 1966/67

Winning does not always mean a military victory. The hill may have been taken, the war technically lost...but our heritage and spirit survive. People have tasted freedom, and have tasted what it is like to make their own money. Winning sometimes means admitting that we must leave. But in leaving, hopefully the ignorant and misinformed have learned something about what it means to have a country that you love...

.

A man without pride in his country is only half....as a man without faith is lost completely. I am not talking about religion...but humanity in general.

It's very admirable of you to try and use the glass is half full argument but not when your country is up to its neck in debt and your infrastructure at home is literally crumbling. The money would be far better spent in your own schools and reinforcing your very fragile power grid than in helping someone else in another country to win a hill

alsas...my message is lost. Opinions... You are as solid in yours as I am in mine. Never to agree completely.

Sun Tzu has some great opinons on the art of war....and done a pretty good job turning things around when things seemed dark and gloomy.

Bear traps can be made, even for a smarter and stronger Bear, if his weaknesses can be made into your strengths.

Sitting at home eating french fries and going to school somehow made me feel weak inside...like a cared after momma's boy. It was all those free lunches and church outings. My Catholic Nun/teacher cadre never saw fit to describe the baby crawling in desperation for water, as a vulture sat by. Or the slaying of innnocent young girls for family honor, nor prepared me for 12 year old Somalian Pirates....

Sometimes, in the scheme of things, action is applied, strategies are implemented, armies are pushed forward, diplomacy shakes, and clandestine sources of information fuel the fire.

I agree..the story is seldom told, until after an event...maybe long after. The what and where is published, the why and who is safely preserved.

Life as it is.

[Ulysses G.]

Try a little of Howard Zinn's work.

Anyone who recommends Howard Zinn, has no business dissing Fox. The man was delusional and his "history" was a joke.

http://reason.com/archives/2010/02/03/the-peoples-historian

[Norrad]

...As for military power if it comes to that, I got this from Wikipedia, and it doesn't mention superior technology which the US has in spades.

No they can't....

Any examples of this "superior technology"? They may be the country with the most when it comes to military spending, but let's not forget that the simplest and often cheapest options are the most destructive. A few rudimentary dirty bombs strategically placed around the country would bring the US to it's knees, their Achilles heel is the fact that they rely on technology and everything is too interconnected. Disable C&C communications and things quickly fall apart. Over-complicate things and you render them ineffective. Simple example: M-16 vs AK-47, more complex example: Apache vs Hind (technologically the Apache is best, but it requires constant maintenance and a stream of parts and experts from the US, the Hind can be repaired by the Flight Engineer visiting a local Land-rover and bicycle shop). I could go on and on with examples, but first let's see your example of superior technology.

[Asiantravel]

...As for military power if it comes to that, I got this from Wikipedia, and it doesn't mention superior technology which the US has in spades.

No they can't....

Any examples of this "superior technology"? They may be the country with the most when it comes to military spending, but let's not forget that the simplest and often cheapest options are the most destructive. A few rudimentary dirty bombs strategically placed around the country would bring the US to it's knees, their Achilles heel is the fact that they rely on technology and everything is too interconnected. Disable C&C communications and things quickly fall apart. Over-complicate things and you render them ineffective. Simple example: M-16 vs AK-47, more complex example: Apache vs Hind (technologically the Apache is best, but it requires constant maintenance and a stream of parts and experts from the US, the Hind can be repaired by the Flight Engineer visiting a local Land-rover and bicycle shop). I could go on and on with examples, but first let's see your example of superior technology.

" They may be the country with the most when it comes to military spending, but let's not forget that the simplest and often cheapest options are the most destructive"

USA's "superior technology" versus Iraq and Afghanistan?

[slipperylobster]

...As for military power if it comes to that, I got this from Wikipedia, and it doesn't mention superior technology which the US has in spades.

No they can't....I could go on and on with examples, but first let's see your example of superior technology.

Hiroshima and Nagasaki seemed to work a treat.

Lets see what is in store for this century.

[Asiantravel]

...As for military power if it comes to that, I got this from Wikipedia, and it doesn't mention superior technology which the US has in spades.

No they can't....I could go on and on with examples, but first let's see your example of superior technology.

Hiroshima and Nagasaki seemed to work a treat.

Lets see what is in store for this century.

Something that you would least expect ( because the report remains blocked from release to the American public ) …… Like this perhaps?………..

http://www.wnd.com/2014/04/dhs-study-north-korea-capable-of-emp-attack-on-u-s/

Edited April 28, 2014 by Asiantravel

[Pakboong]

With the exception of Kuwait-The First Gulf War (had plenty of help there), the US has not won a major war or conflict since WWII, alone or not. I don't count Panama or Grenada, tad bit of an 'over match', but you can if you wish. Not to say the US hasn't been responsible for some 'regime change' here and there, unknown to most Americans. When I talk with the folks back from Iraq and Afghanistan they sound just like we did, substitute Vietnam for either and interchange sand and jungle. Sad state of affairs, it isn't pretty what they say and have said for years. The US is in no shape to go starting more unnecessary wars and the world knows it. Kerry/obushma can implement sanctions, but if there is any sanity left in Washington (doubtful) they will stay out of 'bombs away' and 'boots on the ground'. I do study a bit of history (history minor in college), I would reccommend all do and not just US propaganda. Try a little of Howard Zinn's work. I do not watch the US right wing neocon propaganda network-faux (not the) news, except to know my enemy. Semper Fi, Sgt USMC Vietnam 1966/67

Winning does not always mean a military victory. The hill may have been taken, the war technically lost...but our heritage and spirit survive. People have tasted freedom, and have tasted what it is like to make their own money. Winning sometimes means admitting that we must leave. But in leaving, hopefully the ignorant and misinformed have learned something about what it means to have a country that you love...

.

A man without pride in his country is only half....as a man without faith is lost completely. I am not talking about religion...but humanity in general.

It's very admirable of you to try and use the glass is half full argument but not when your country is up to its neck in debt and your infrastructure at home is literally crumbling. The money would be far better spent in your own schools and reinforcing your very fragile power grid than in helping someone else in another country to win a hill

alsas...my message is lost. Opinions... You are as solid in yours as I am in mine. Never to agree completely.

Sun Tzu has some great opinons on the art of war....and done a pretty good job turning things around when things seemed dark and gloomy.

Bear traps can be made, even for a smarter and stronger Bear, if his weaknesses can be made into your strengths.

Sitting at home eating french fries and going to school somehow made me feel weak inside...like a cared after momma's boy. It was all those free lunches and church outings. My Catholic Nun/teacher cadre never saw fit to describe the baby crawling in desperation for water, as a vulture sat by. Or the slaying of innnocent young girls for family honor, nor prepared me for 12 year old Somalian Pirates....

Sometimes, in the scheme of things, action is applied, strategies are implemented, armies are pushed forward, diplomacy shakes, and clandestine sources of information fuel the fire.

I agree..the story is seldom told, until after an event...maybe long after. The what and where is published, the why and who is safely preserved.

Life as it is.

Most of the greatest world failures were a result of the inevitable clash between logic and patriotism.

[kimbathewhitelion]

Think the next small "hotdog" shaped dog I get in Thailand will be named Kerry. Sorry, will save that name for the pigeon across the Soi.

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[Pralaad]

The bluff has worked on some. Putin is a player but his hand is WEAK. This is going to end in big time tears for Russia thanks to their dictator Putin.

Hope you have enough USD because soon you will be paying $30 for 1 baht

[Pralaad]

Gee, good old America just can not stop giving out warning

Seems US getting isolated once again

Obama warns Europe over Russia sanctions

US President Barack Obama has warned Europe not to duck out of tougher sanctions on Russia

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/world/ukraine-crisis-obama-warns-europe-over-russia-sanctions-20140428-zr0o5.html#ixzz30ARtlneX

[sgtsabai]

What was it Kerry said a few weeks ago about in the 21st century countries don't just go around invading other countries? Talk about the pot calling the kettle black, foot in mouth. Not an exact quote, but everybody jumped on that one. The US has no moral ground to stand on, and those that research real history will find even less. People that read right wing libertarian rags won't learn much, but I'll give the libertarians one thing, they aren't into international imperialism. Between the neocon wish to invade everywhere and the neoliberal wish to rule through money and the destruction of the middle/class (obushma is a neoliberal, certainly doesn't even resemble a 'liberal' what ever that is anymore), the Corporate Police State of Amerika is doomed unless the sheeple find their hind feet. About the only people still blind to what Amerika has become are Americans. Again, aside from the 1st Gulf War (with help) the US has not won a major conflict since WWII and we certainly haven't fought any countries that would have been considered our 'equal'. A battle is not a war, saying you won and walking away is not winning. Technology does not win wars. Hey how about that F-35, can't fly, can't fight. The USMC models were still grounded last I read, tail hooks rip out of the carrier models, I think the Air Force model can fly in the daytime. Kerry and obushma can rattle sabers and papers all they want, they don't scare anybody. As long as the banksters, Wall Street criminals and corporations are getting rich and not paying taxes they won't let the US get into a shooting war. If they think they can make money out of a war, well Katie bar the door, praise the lord and pass the ammunition, here we come.

[rgs2001uk]

^^^^^, wow brilliant post.

Deja vu all over again,

Bay Of Tonkin rears its ugly yet head again.