Big Guns Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 Back to the OP's question I would put the lack of availability of diesel cars down to lack of information/education on the part of consumers which leads to a lack of demand coupled with economies of scale for the main Japanese manufacturers. The Vios (as do many models) only comes with one engine choice which dates back to the Soluna. As many posters have said in the world's 2nd largest market, the EU, diesels are a popular choice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHO Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 I'm sure that if one of you guys wanted to undertake the "education campaign", and guaranteed one of the local manufacturers minimum sales of 5K units/month, they'd do a production run for you Does anyone here actually think that these big, global manufacturers are completely missing the market here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I knew this would happen Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 (edited) I'm sure that if one of you guys wanted to undertake the "education campaign", and guaranteed one of the local manufacturers minimum sales of 5K units/month, they'd do a production run for you Does anyone here actually think that these big, global manufacturers are completely missing the market here? How can they miss the market if they make it? As if there would be any choice. Edited April 29, 2014 by I knew this would happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHO Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 (edited) I'm sure that if one of you guys wanted to undertake the "education campaign", and guaranteed one of the local manufacturers minimum sales of 5K units/month, they'd do a production run for you Does anyone here actually think that these big, global manufacturers are completely missing the market here? How can they miss the market if they make it? As if there would be any choice. It's a hotly competitive market with plenty of players - if there was an opportunity to increase sales by offering lower-end diesel engined passenger cars, surely they would take it (especially the tier-2 brands). There's no doubt the mainstream brands are watching Benz and BMW sales closely, but haven't yet seen a solid business opportunity in their own segments. The other factor at play here is the slow, but sure, electrification of the passenger car market. Edited April 29, 2014 by IMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I knew this would happen Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 (edited) I'm sure that if one of you guys wanted to undertake the "education campaign", and guaranteed one of the local manufacturers minimum sales of 5K units/month, they'd do a production run for you Does anyone here actually think that these big, global manufacturers are completely missing the market here? How can they miss the market if they make it? As if there would be any choice. It's a hotly competitive market with plenty of players - if there was an opportunity to increase sales by offering lower-end diesel engined passenger cars, surely they would take it (especially the tier-2 brands). There's no doubt the mainstream brands are watching Benz and BMW sales closely, but haven't yet seen a solid business opportunity in their own segments. The other factor at play here is the slow, but sure, electrification of the passenger car market. For me it looks like everyone is selling the same with just a different badge on it. Noone of the big players has ANYTHING that is outstanding from the masses?! Imagine a Jazz with a small turbo petrol engine like VW or Ford have got it, like 1.4 140 HP 250NM = FUN. I bet the Thais would love it! But why does noone try to sell something "new"? Merc, BMW, VW may be interesting but that´s a very small segment of the market. I agree that Thais will prefer the hybrids over the Diesels, just like the Japanese. And someday soon the Diesel won´t be able to compete with the hybrids anymore anyway and loose ground. Edited April 29, 2014 by I knew this would happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHO Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 I'm sure that if one of you guys wanted to undertake the "education campaign", and guaranteed one of the local manufacturers minimum sales of 5K units/month, they'd do a production run for you Does anyone here actually think that these big, global manufacturers are completely missing the market here? How can they miss the market if they make it? As if there would be any choice. It's a hotly competitive market with plenty of players - if there was an opportunity to increase sales by offering lower-end diesel engined passenger cars, surely they would take it (especially the tier-2 brands). There's no doubt the mainstream brands are watching Benz and BMW sales closely, but haven't yet seen a solid business opportunity in their own segments. The other factor at play here is the slow, but sure, electrification of the passenger car market. For me it looks like everyone is selling the same with just a different badge on it. Noone of the big players has ANYTHING that is outstanding from the masses?! Imagine a Jazz with a small turbo petrol engine like VW or Ford have got it, like 1.4 140 HP 250NM = FUN. I bet the Thais would love it! But why does noone try to sell something "new"? Merc, BMW, VW may be interesting but that´s a very small segment of the market. I agree that Thais may prefer the hybrids over the Diesels, just like the Japanese. It's not just the consumers that prefer hybrids, it's also the government - in the form of tax legislation (EV's and hybrids have "only" 10% excise tax). Same goes for fuel - E85 and NGV are the types subsidised by the government (and supported by excise tax breaks) for use in passenger cars. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace of Pop Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 I knew this would happen, on 29 Apr 2014 - 10:22, said: Ace of Pop, on 28 Apr 2014 - 16:14, said:Perhaps there are folks who don't like the Sound of them. Im one. The only downside of a Diesel yes. Of course I´m in love with everything that has 6 cylindes +, but I also really like Diesel cars for some reason, maybe cause I grew up in the countryside and developed some passion for tractor sounds. But I think Vdub did an ok job with the sound design on the new Golf VII GTD 184. A great car, was at the dealer for a test drive. I Worked with Diesel to,in retirement i prefer a whisper to a clatter, plus i hate all the power at the bottom end and no wide rev band. Rented an Oiler 1.8 Fiesta 20 odd years back ,and there seems no improvement today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Guns Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 There's simply no need for the main players to invest in the R&D and marketing for a diesel as they're already profitable with their (mainly) one petrol engine model only range. Ford used to offer a diesel Focus but no longer do so. If one major manufacturer was to offer a diesel then the rest would follow suit. As IMHO pointed out there is also no tax incentive for manufacturers. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VocalNeal Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Because Toyota Thailand etc. would have to tool up for diesel production. Costs money. Ford tried with Focus TDI not sure how many of you guys bought one of those! If Fiesta diesel came here. Toyota and Honda would go broke! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jitar Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 The previous model Focus diesel is a good example. Anyone know how well they sold when new compared to the normal Focus? They were not cheap to buy new but resale values were pretty good so someone must like them. Seems the Focus diesel did not do well enough for Ford to continue with diesel versions of either the new Focus or Fiesta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHO Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Because Toyota Thailand etc. would have to tool up for diesel production. Costs money. Ford tried with Focus TDI not sure how many of you guys bought one of those! If Fiesta diesel came here. Toyota and Honda would go broke! Ford sold the Econetic Fiesta in Australia for around 2 years - it hardly sold, and that's a market that has become very open to diesel passenger cars over the past decade.. Plus it also meant the loss of a "halo" model for Ford (it held the title of most fuel efficient car in AU) - so Ford obviously weren't too sad to see it go..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHO Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 The previous model Focus diesel is a good example. Anyone know how well they sold when new compared to the normal Focus? They were not cheap to buy new but resale values were pretty good so someone must like them. Seems the Focus diesel did not do well enough for Ford to continue with diesel versions of either the new Focus or Fiesta. No sales numbers for diesel-only, but I do recall Ford saying that the runout they did (which was a big discount - around 200K for memory) dragged on for months longer than they though it would... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevenl Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Because Toyota Thailand etc. would have to tool up for diesel production. Costs money. Ford tried with Focus TDI not sure how many of you guys bought one of those! If Fiesta diesel came here. Toyota and Honda would go broke! I don't understand. So Ford tried with the Focus, which was not a success, but the Fiesta would be such a success it would knock Toyota and Honda of their shoes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace of Pop Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 They were popular with those Caravan Pests in Europe at one time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortenaa Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Perhaps there are folks who don't like the Sound of them. Im one. The only downside of a Diesel yes. Of course I´m in love with everything that has 6 cylindes +, but I also really like Diesel cars for some reason, maybe cause I grew up in the countryside and developed some passion for tractor sounds. But I think Vdub did an ok job with the sound design on the new Golf VII GTD 184. A great car, was at the dealer for a test drive. A diesel doesn't have to sound all bad 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHO Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 (edited) Perhaps there are folks who don't like the Sound of them. Im one. The only downside of a Diesel yes. Of course I´m in love with everything that has 6 cylindes +, but I also really like Diesel cars for some reason, maybe cause I grew up in the countryside and developed some passion for tractor sounds. But I think Vdub did an ok job with the sound design on the new Golf VII GTD 184. A great car, was at the dealer for a test drive. A diesel doesn't have to sound all bad Sounds exactly like a truck. This is how it ought to sound: Edited April 30, 2014 by IMHO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jitar Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Sounding like a truck is not such a bad thing if your truck sounds like this: How is that for a clonker Ace? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace of Pop Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 Superb, used as intended. In a Truck.!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortenaa Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Sounds exactly like a truck. This is how it ought to sound: Hehe, familier sound. I'm waiting for an Acrapovic exhaust for my car.. Here's a sample Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fabianfred Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Perhaps more to the point is ....why is there such a price difference in Petrol and Diesel? I bet they cost the same to make...just ripping-off the majority of people who use motorcycles... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkkjames Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Perhaps more to the point is ....why is there such a price difference in Petrol and Diesel? I bet they cost the same to make...just ripping-off the majority of people who use motorcycles... there is a subsidy (they call it that) on diesel, commercial reasons / vehicles. Anyway, I thought motobikes got great gas mileage, how much does it cost to fill a tank? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHO Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Perhaps more to the point is ....why is there such a price difference in Petrol and Diesel? I bet they cost the same to make...just ripping-off the majority of people who use motorcycles... Sure is more expensive to manufacture a diesel engine compared to a mainstream TH market gasoline engine. Diesels have much stronger/heavier block and head construction, a commonrail system, a turbocharger, an intercooler, and in some cases a particulate filter and an adblue system - all of which a gasoline engine doesn't have. Higher end gasoline engines with direct injection and turbos and/or superchargers get closer to matching the production costs of diesel though, but they are normally only found in cars from brands that already sell diesel passenger cars in TH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHO Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Perhaps more to the point is ....why is there such a price difference in Petrol and Diesel? I bet they cost the same to make...just ripping-off the majority of people who use motorcycles... there is a subsidy (they call it that) on diesel, commercial reasons / vehicles. Anyway, I thought motobikes got great gas mileage, how much does it cost to fill a tank? A typical fuel injected 110-125cc Honda scooter gets around 50-55 KM/L, non Fi versions about 5-10% worse. Not that outstanding, considering the next wave of eco cars will do >= 25 KM/L. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jitar Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 (edited) Perhaps more to the point is ....why is there such a price difference in Petrol and Diesel? I bet they cost the same to make...just ripping-off the majority of people who use motorcycles... Taxation Policy. According to the Thai Gov Petrol and Diesel both cost around 26 baht/L to make. There is no subsidy on Diesel, just less tax. Edited May 2, 2014 by Jitar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bkkjames Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Perhaps more to the point is ....why is there such a price difference in Petrol and Diesel? I bet they cost the same to make...just ripping-off the majority of people who use motorcycles... Taxation Policy. According to the Thai Gov Petrol and Diesel both cost around 26 baht/L to make. There is no subsidy on Diesel, just less tax. Taxation or sibsidy, same nett result Sent from my LG-P970 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keemapoot Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Superb, used as intended. In a Truck.!!! Not so fast Ace...: Diesel Supercar Has 190-MPH Top Speed, 2,000-Miles Per TankThe 6.6-liter turbo-diesel V8 puts out 395 horsepower, and an immense 700 pound feet of torque. It can get from zero to sixty in just 3.7 seconds, on its way to a top speed of 190 mph, making it the fastest diesel car in the world. It can also go 2,000 miles on a single tank of diesel. https://autos.yahoo.com/news/diesel-supercar-190-mph-top-speed-2-000-170002134.html 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IMHO Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Perhaps more to the point is ....why is there such a price difference in Petrol and Diesel? I bet they cost the same to make...just ripping-off the majority of people who use motorcycles... Taxation Policy. According to the Thai Gov Petrol and Diesel both cost around 26 baht/L to make. There is no subsidy on Diesel, just less tax. Nothing technically stopping motorbike manufacturers from making E85 compat bikes either (which is subsidised), especially the FI models. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarpSpeed Posted May 2, 2014 Share Posted May 2, 2014 Superb, used as intended. In a Truck.!!! Not so fast Ace...:Diesel Supercar Has 190-MPH Top Speed, 2,000-Miles Per TankThe 6.6-liter turbo-diesel V8 puts out 395 horsepower, and an immense 700 pound feet of torque. It can get from zero to sixty in just 3.7 seconds, on its way to a top speed of 190 mph, making it the fastest diesel car in the world. It can also go 2,000 miles on a single tank of diesel. https://autos.yahoo.com/news/diesel-supercar-190-mph-top-speed-2-000-170002134.html Hmm.. The back of that car (especially the rear windows) looks suspiciously like a female body part.. Camel toe any body? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace of Pop Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Heres a Good Reason. Civic Navi 1.8 on E85 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodsie888 Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 100_3693.JPG Heres a Good Reason. Civic Navi 1.8 on E85 Average over 20.1 km distance travelled Ace? Or am I mistaken? hehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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