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The clock is ticking towards a landmark judgement against caretaker PM Yingluck


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BURNING ISSUE
Damned if they do, damned if they don't

Supon Thanukid
The Nation

BANGKOK: -- The clock is ticking towards a landmark judgement against caretaker Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra, whose job is on the line over the unlawful transfer of National Security Council chief Thawil Pliensri.

Many hearts go out to Yingluck, the country's first woman prime minister, who has been enduring a series of setbacks.

From another corner of society, there is sympathy for independent agencies like the Election Commission (EC), the Constitutional Court, the National Anti-Corruption Commission (NACC), the National Human Rights Commission and the Office of the Ombudsman.

These agencies have been subjected to attacks, directly and indirectly, for many years. The hardest-hit are the Constitutional Court, the EC and NACC, which have been accused by the government camp of not being neutral and of practising double standards.

Government supporters have questioned why whenever the cases under scrutiny by these agencies are related to the Pheu Thai Party, the government or Yingluck, the decisions or verdicts are more negative than positive.

But before jumping to any conclusion, the public should accept that these independent agencies were created under the 2007 Constitution as organisations tasked with maintaining checks and balances on the government and the House of Representatives.

Hence it is not surprising that these agencies are sucked into the political whirlpool and politicians' power struggles. Several Constitutional Court judges publicly accept the nature of their job.

"It is natural to have both admirers and haters, as there will be a winner and a loser in any case. It is normal for the winner to take satisfaction and the loser to condemn or even insult judges," a judge said.

So it is common that shortly after independent agencies like the Constitutional Court hand down verdicts, critics, whether they are linked directly or indirectly to the case, lambaste the judges. Some critics, seemingly with academic principles, present their points of disapproval, but others, who may be judgmental by nature, seem to lash out just for the enjoyment of it.

In comparison, judges in normal courts of justice are protected against contempt, insult and criticism.

The charter does not provide the Constitutional Court judges with the same protection it does to other judges. That is the reason critics pull no punches against them.

The Centre for Administration of Peace and Order, led by caretaker Labour Minister Chalerm Yoobamrung, has become one of the arch-critics of the Constitutional Court judges and the NACC. Chalerm has made it graphically clear that if Yingluck loses her job as prime minister, it will lead to a "bloodbath", because the Pheu Thai Party and government supporters will not allow that scenario.

There have been steady attacks, intimidation and threats against the court even before the verdict is issued.

Former prime minister Chuan Leekpai recently extended moral support to the Constitutional Court judges, urging them to carry out their duty with righteousness and without fear of intimidation or being influenced by bribery at this critical political juncture.

It is unavoidable that regardless of which side the judges rule in favour of, the court will be attacked.

"Stay true to your cause. Each situation is a test of your ideology and commitment," Chuan advised the judges.

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-- The Nation 2014-05-02

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It should be already clear that intimidation of the judicial process is completely unacceptable. The open season approach by the Yingluck administration, CAPO, Pheu Thai, and the UDD is completely off the charts. At best it is an unseemly display and at worst it interferes with the process. People who condone it haven't the slightest conception of what is acceptable in their own countries.

You need to pull your head out of the sand kiddo.

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It should be already clear that intimidation of the judicial process is completely unacceptable. The open season approach by the Yingluck administration, CAPO, Pheu Thai, and the UDD is completely off the charts. At best it is an unseemly display and at worst it interferes with the process. People who condone it haven't the slightest conception of what is acceptable in their own countries.

You're very tight.

I'm very surprised that these hooligans haven't been prosecuted for their acts. Too soft.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

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Funny. They were put there for checks and balances. They are doing their jobs. But people find it usefull to state how they were chosen. Maybe we should take a closer look at how this whole government was 'chosen'? A party that changed its name three times (due to being convicted for electoral fraud), a change to the constituencies so they could not fail even if they did not have the popular vote and proven clear vote buying with public funds. These independent agencies should make a decision, no matter what the outcome. Instead of being afraid of it the government should see the oppurtunity in the new situation. Change electoral laws, and get on with an election already. Makes you wonder what they re afraid of?

Or how they are run by a peoples court fugitive convicted criminal. If the checks and balances were being applied correctly then the first to fall should be the curent government and the opportunity only becomes available to what democratically replaces them. But sadly for Thailand very few of the Shinawtra's and Pheu Thai families understand what the heck democracy is. That is what they are afraid of as in a true democratic application they are incompetent and incapable.

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These agencies people are selected by the Senate. The way these appointed Senators are selected is by a committee of these Independent Agencies. So the Senate is supposed to monitor these agencies, yet it is also appointed by these same agencies. Which means in effect that the Independent agencies are kept in check by people they chose! Self regulation never works!

But we found out it was far worse than that, because even the Independent Agencies committee doesn't select them freely according to Chumpol Silapaarcha speaking as late as 2011.

Chart Thai Pattana leader Chumpol Silapaarcha Friday said an unnamed figure had control over the seven members of the senator selection committee. However, he would not reveal who the person was.

“Society should figure out who can be that influential,” he said, adding that he would take responsibility for what he said.

Repeating something he has said many times recently, Chumpol claimed elites dominate Thai politics.

We've had some spectacular decisions in these agencies. Only two days ago, the NACC indicted 36 Senators for voting on an Amendment to make the Senate fully elected! Since when did voting become corruption? It didn't indict everyone who voted, no, only people who voted for that amendment! That NACC is part of the committee that chooses Senators, so in effect it indicted Senators for voting against NACC's own self interests!

The same selection process chooses an Electoral Commission, with presumably the same anti voting bias, because they've failed to run an election.

So an anti-elections Senate chooses the pro-election Electoral Commission.

The process is the problem here, these political operators have been seeded through the agencies and these operators distort the job of these agencies. The issue here is the unelected Senate. That needs to be fixed, the political operators in the agencies can then be removed by the Senate (which is there job), and these agencies can get on with their jobs without being used as a political tool.

That article even mentioned you several times; ... in everything but name. Q.E.D.

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These agencies people are selected by the Senate. The way these appointed Senators are selected is by a committee of these Independent Agencies. So the Senate is supposed to monitor these agencies, yet it is also appointed by these same agencies. Which means in effect that the Independent agencies are kept in check by people they chose! Self regulation never works!

But we found out it was far worse than that, because even the Independent Agencies committee doesn't select them freely according to Chumpol Silapaarcha speaking as late as 2011.

Chart Thai Pattana leader Chumpol Silapaarcha Friday said an unnamed figure had control over the seven members of the senator selection committee. However, he would not reveal who the person was.

“Society should figure out who can be that influential,” he said, adding that he would take responsibility for what he said.

Repeating something he has said many times recently, Chumpol claimed elites dominate Thai politics.

We've had some spectacular decisions in these agencies. Only two days ago, the NACC indicted 36 Senators for voting on an Amendment to make the Senate fully elected! Since when did voting become corruption? It didn't indict everyone who voted, no, only people who voted for that amendment! That NACC is part of the committee that chooses Senators, so in effect it indicted Senators for voting against NACC's own self interests!

The same selection process chooses an Electoral Commission, with presumably the same anti voting bias, because they've failed to run an election.

So an anti-elections Senate chooses the pro-election Electoral Commission.

The process is the problem here, these political operators have been seeded through the agencies and these operators distort the job of these agencies. The issue here is the unelected Senate. That needs to be fixed, the political operators in the agencies can then be removed by the Senate (which is there job), and these agencies can get on with their jobs without being used as a political tool.

SPOT ON! Case of internal breeding that result in ugly offsprings. Another reason to reform the 2007 constituton and revert back to the 1997 constitution.

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"Many hearts go out to Yingluck, the country's first woman prime minister...." Madam PM has been a Prime Minister in title only, her inaction and luck of decision over the years has not been that of a true PM. Maybe need to amend the title to first woman PM puppet.

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These agencies people are selected by the Senate. The way these appointed Senators are selected is by a committee of these Independent Agencies. So the Senate is supposed to monitor these agencies, yet it is also appointed by these same agencies. Which means in effect that the Independent agencies are kept in check by people they chose! Self regulation never works!

But we found out it was far worse than that, because even the Independent Agencies committee doesn't select them freely according to Chumpol Silapaarcha speaking as late as 2011.

Chart Thai Pattana leader Chumpol Silapaarcha Friday said an unnamed figure had control over the seven members of the senator selection committee. However, he would not reveal who the person was.

“Society should figure out who can be that influential,” he said, adding that he would take responsibility for what he said.

Repeating something he has said many times recently, Chumpol claimed elites dominate Thai politics.

We've had some spectacular decisions in these agencies. Only two days ago, the NACC indicted 36 Senators for voting on an Amendment to make the Senate fully elected! Since when did voting become corruption? It didn't indict everyone who voted, no, only people who voted for that amendment! That NACC is part of the committee that chooses Senators, so in effect it indicted Senators for voting against NACC's own self interests!

The same selection process chooses an Electoral Commission, with presumably the same anti voting bias, because they've failed to run an election.

So an anti-elections Senate chooses the pro-election Electoral Commission.

The process is the problem here, these political operators have been seeded through the agencies and these operators distort the job of these agencies. The issue here is the unelected Senate. That needs to be fixed, the political operators in the agencies can then be removed by the Senate (which is there job), and these agencies can get on with their jobs without being used as a political tool.

There is nothing wrong with having an appointed senate. Other countries have an appointed senate and it works fine. Note that the Senators have a different term of office than parliament. Maybe the problem here is that only half of the senators are appointed! (Actually I think that it's a reasonable experiment to have half elected and half appointed). Remember that parliament is 100% elected.

It's possible that there is value in looking at how the appointed senators are appointed and "fine-tuning" or changing that process.

I think that your argument that the process is flawed because there is someone behind the scenes influencing decisions. I believe that is true in every country in the world.

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"Many hearts go out to Yingluck, the country's first woman prime minister...." Madam PM has been a Prime Minister in title only, her inaction and luck of decision over the years has not been that of a true PM. Maybe need to amend the title to first woman PM puppet.

So you are saying the proper title for PTP prime minister would be PPM (Puppet Prime Minister). It does have a nice ring!

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Thailand is moving to a violent outburst that will give Suthep and his PDRC the bloodbath they so want. Thing is, it will be the PDRC that will suffer casualties as the public turns on it. Yingluck's party may be unpopular with some, but she is still popular and there is a protective sentiment towards her.

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It should be already clear that intimidation of the judicial process is completely unacceptable. The open season approach by the Yingluck administration, CAPO, Pheu Thai, and the UDD is completely off the charts. At best it is an unseemly display and at worst it interferes with the process. People who condone it haven't the slightest conception of what is acceptable in their own countries.

You need to pull your head out of the sand kiddo.

Methinks it is YOU who needs to pull their head out of the sand.... Scamper is 100% correct, if his head was in the sand... he would clearly think the same as you.

Go back to the ostrich farm.

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It should be already clear that intimidation of the judicial process is completely unacceptable. The open season approach by the Yingluck administration, CAPO, Pheu Thai, and the UDD is completely off the charts. At best it is an unseemly display and at worst it interferes with the process. People who condone it haven't the slightest conception of what is acceptable in their own countries.

You need to pull your head out of the sand kiddo.

Methinks it is YOU who needs to pull their head out of the sand.... Scamper is 100% correct, if his head was in the sand... he would clearly think the same as you.

Go back to the ostrich farm.

I don't think Pikey's head is in the sand - it's in a much more private, dark place!

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These agencies people are selected by the Senate. The way these appointed Senators are selected is by a committee of these Independent Agencies. So the Senate is supposed to monitor these agencies, yet it is also appointed by these same agencies. Which means in effect that the Independent agencies are kept in check by people they chose! Self regulation never works!

But we found out it was far worse than that, because even the Independent Agencies committee doesn't select them freely according to Chumpol Silapaarcha speaking as late as 2011.

Chart Thai Pattana leader Chumpol Silapaarcha Friday said an unnamed figure had control over the seven members of the senator selection committee. However, he would not reveal who the person was.

Society should figure out who can be that influential, he said, adding that he would take responsibility for what he said.

Repeating something he has said many times recently, Chumpol claimed elites dominate Thai politics.

We've had some spectacular decisions in these agencies. Only two days ago, the NACC indicted 36 Senators for voting on an Amendment to make the Senate fully elected! Since when did voting become corruption? It didn't indict everyone who voted, no, only people who voted for that amendment! That NACC is part of the committee that chooses Senators, so in effect it indicted Senators for voting against NACC's own self interests!

The same selection process chooses an Electoral Commission, with presumably the same anti voting bias, because they've failed to run an election.

So an anti-elections Senate chooses the pro-election Electoral Commission.

The process is the problem here, these political operators have been seeded through the agencies and these operators distort the job of these agencies. The issue here is the unelected Senate. That needs to be fixed, the political operators in the agencies can then be removed by the Senate (which is there job), and these agencies can get on with their jobs without being used as a political tool.

SPOT ON! Case of internal breeding that result in ugly offsprings. Another reason to reform the 2007 constituton and revert back to the 1997 constitution.

Its like a windows "circular reference".

It won't deliver a fair and democratic outcome.

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The clock is ticking towards a civil war. God hopes this doesn't happen.

What civil war?

The red shirts have no support anymore. The foreign mercenaries Thaksin can buy are very limited.

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It should be already clear that intimidation of the judicial process is completely unacceptable. The open season approach by the Yingluck administration, CAPO, Pheu Thai, and the UDD is completely off the charts. At best it is an unseemly display and at worst it interferes with the process. People who condone it haven't the slightest conception of what is acceptable in their own countries.

You need to pull your head out of the sand kiddo.

Methinks it is YOU who needs to pull their head out of the sand.... Scamper is 100% correct, if his head was in the sand... he would clearly think the same as you.

Go back to the ostrich farm.

Outch!

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Thailand is moving to a violent outburst that will give Suthep and his PDRC the bloodbath they so want. Thing is, it will be the PDRC that will suffer casualties as the public turns on it. Yingluck's party may be unpopular with some, but she is still popular and there is a protective sentiment towards her.

Yingluck got some support, but doubt if that ardent support and protective sentiment are all that prevailing in Bangkok, where the PDRC are centered. Mass clashes will not happen unless the UDD organizes a mass rally near the PDRC's. The usual violent incidents might continue, and possibly increase some, but I don't think there will be a bloodbath as such.

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It should be already clear that intimidation of the judicial process is completely unacceptable. The open season approach by the Yingluck administration, CAPO, Pheu Thai, and the UDD is completely off the charts. At best it is an unseemly display and at worst it interferes with the process. People who condone it haven't the slightest conception of what is acceptable in their own countries.

You need to pull your head out of the sand kiddo.

...........................and put it with your own?.......... firmly into the retired farang red shirt community?

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These agencies people are selected by the Senate. The way these appointed Senators are selected is by a committee of these Independent Agencies. So the Senate is supposed to monitor these agencies, yet it is also appointed by these same agencies. Which means in effect that the Independent agencies are kept in check by people they chose! Self regulation never works!

But we found out it was far worse than that, because even the Independent Agencies committee doesn't select them freely according to Chumpol Silapaarcha speaking as late as 2011.

Chart Thai Pattana leader Chumpol Silapaarcha Friday said an unnamed figure had control over the seven members of the senator selection committee. However, he would not reveal who the person was.

“Society should figure out who can be that influential,” he said, adding that he would take responsibility for what he said.

Repeating something he has said many times recently, Chumpol claimed elites dominate Thai politics.

We've had some spectacular decisions in these agencies. Only two days ago, the NACC indicted 36 Senators for voting on an Amendment to make the Senate fully elected! Since when did voting become corruption? It didn't indict everyone who voted, no, only people who voted for that amendment! That NACC is part of the committee that chooses Senators, so in effect it indicted Senators for voting against NACC's own self interests!

The same selection process chooses an Electoral Commission, with presumably the same anti voting bias, because they've failed to run an election.

So an anti-elections Senate chooses the pro-election Electoral Commission.

The process is the problem here, these political operators have been seeded through the agencies and these operators distort the job of these agencies. The issue here is the unelected Senate. That needs to be fixed, the political operators in the agencies can then be removed by the Senate (which is there job), and these agencies can get on with their jobs without being used as a political tool.

Self regulation is fraught with problems, in any country. Allowing the police to investigates themselves if complaints are made against them, like in the UK for example. Produces some very odd results. The Independent Police Complaints Commission would agree, for example.

However, having an elected senate in Thailand would increase the problem you highlight - packing the independent agencies with cronies, relatives, and political allies. Whilst an elected senate would become an extension of the lower house. Can you imagine a lower house controlled by PTP, with their relatives and cronies packing the senate, with no time limitations on tenure of office, and packing all independent agencies with PTP people too? It really doesn't bare thinking about,

You could say the same if the democrats or any other party has such a blanket coverage.

Canada and Ireland have good processes for appointing senators. Both countries are progressive and democratic.

The EC should not be pro or anti anything. There job is to organize the elections, in accordance with laws and procedures in place and ensure it and all participants comply with those laws and procedures. Unfortunately PTP have shown they have a disregard for laws and procedures and like to make the rules up as they go along. Maybe the opposition would be the same - we will see if and when they govern.

PTP always claim the law is against them, they are always the victims, and never commit any wrongs. Anyone who believes a party openly run by a non elected convicted criminal fugitive, a party embroiled in numerous investigations and one that has failed to deliver on so many fronts, and does little to discourage violence and intimidation by supporters, would behave in an environment where they self regulate is naieve to say the least. PTP, and their previous incarnations, have shown they don't like accountability, transparency and the law; and are prepared to lie without any shame to anyone.

Thailand must find away to tighten and enforce the checks and balances if democracy (real democracy, not Thaksin's or Suthep's versions) is to flourish.

Well said!!!

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Thailand is moving to a violent outburst that will give Suthep and his PDRC the bloodbath they so want. Thing is, it will be the PDRC that will suffer casualties as the public turns on it. Yingluck's party may be unpopular with some, but she is still popular and there is a protective sentiment towards her.

PDRC do not want a 'bloodbath', if they did it would have happened already. They would also be openly trying to create a trained and armed militia like they HAVE NOT been but the red detritus have. It is quite clear who wants a 'bloodbath', Thaksin, cronies, reds, sheeple - because it is all they have left. They have lost already and violence is all they have left to try and force their way. It won't work, PDRC will go home as stated and let the army deal with it. Then we will have the reds crying again about armed and violent rioters getting killed by those ''evil'' soldiers trying to ''protect 'the ammart''' - which is all bullshit !

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