Thais refused entry to Germany because of scam, says Thai embassy

[Gweiloman]

What part of scam don't you understand? Applying for a country where you have no intention to enter is fraud, and as has been said each applicant signs to have given correct information and can be punished with expel out of the country if fraud comes out. Simple or not?

Of course the tour operating industry in Thailand has their "ways" to go around the requirements. That is fine, but if things go wrong it is them who are to blame, not immigration or customs officers....

Looking at the table in post 76, Belgium is second most difficult country, after Sweden. Italy (where they landed first) has a much better score, so would not be a problem. Someone said Italy has a quota of 50 visas per day, that makes 18,250 per year. Strange then that their number in the table is way above 25,000.... Seems someone does not have enough facts to write such statements.

If I were a tour operator I would apply in Luxemburg, Greece, Czech republic. Don't say there is nothing to visit for tourists, as they are beautiful countries with a rich history and culture..

Fact remains: tour operators scam for Schengen visas, if nothing unexpected happens nobody will notice, if a flight is delayed one day things come to the surface, like now. Som nam na.

You can call it a scam or whatever you like. Fact is that no one is trying to scam anyone here. It's merely a group of affluent Thai people wishing to go for a holiday in Europe, take lots of pictures and spend bucket loads of money shopping. No one's blaming anyone (I'm not anyway).

It was also I who stated that Italy gave a quota of 50 visas per day - I meant to say that the Italian embassy only accepts 50 applications per day, for group tours. This is separate from FIT applications. As to whether I have sufficient facts to write such a statement - yes as I do as I make my living in this industry and it's one of the problems that we face and deal with daily.

As to visiting other countries in Europe, I don't disagree that there is nothing for tourists and Luxembourg/Greece may be interesting to visit once or twice but that's about it. Do you want these tourists to keep going to the same countries year after year? Furthermore, shopping is not as good in these places as other parts of Europe such as Milan, Lucerne and Paris. But you are obviously not a planning expert if you would suggest to Thais to visit Lux and Greece and the Czech Republic on the same tour. I suggest you stick to your day job and not become a tour operator

Fact remains: tour operators (not just in Thailand but in other Asian countries as well, such as Vietnam, Indonesia and the Philippines) will try to look for workarounds where possible. No one is trying to scam anyone, no harm is being done to the countries being visited. Instead, hard currency is flowing into these economies in the form of hotel nights, coach transfers, entrance taxes to various Italian cities, restaurants, museums, guide fees and shops.

You call it "workarounds", most people call it scam. You (if you do) scam the Schengen system and rules, it is unlawful and therefor unacceptable.

Wow, never had a parking ticket in your life? Never exceeded a speed limit? Never ever broken a law, no matter how ridiculous or outdated?

[SanukJoeII]

What part of scam don't you understand? Applying for a country where you have no intention to enter is fraud, and as has been said each applicant signs to have given correct information and can be punished with expel out of the country if fraud comes out. Simple or not?

Of course the tour operating industry in Thailand has their "ways" to go around the requirements. That is fine, but if things go wrong it is them who are to blame, not immigration or customs officers....

Looking at the table in post 76, Belgium is second most difficult country, after Sweden. Italy (where they landed first) has a much better score, so would not be a problem. Someone said Italy has a quota of 50 visas per day, that makes 18,250 per year. Strange then that their number in the table is way above 25,000.... Seems someone does not have enough facts to write such statements.

If I were a tour operator I would apply in Luxemburg, Greece, Czech republic. Don't say there is nothing to visit for tourists, as they are beautiful countries with a rich history and culture..

Fact remains: tour operators scam for Schengen visas, if nothing unexpected happens nobody will notice, if a flight is delayed one day things come to the surface, like now. Som nam na.

You can call it a scam or whatever you like. Fact is that no one is trying to scam anyone here. It's merely a group of affluent Thai people wishing to go for a holiday in Europe, take lots of pictures and spend bucket loads of money shopping. No one's blaming anyone (I'm not anyway).

It was also I who stated that Italy gave a quota of 50 visas per day - I meant to say that the Italian embassy only accepts 50 applications per day, for group tours. This is separate from FIT applications. As to whether I have sufficient facts to write such a statement - yes as I do as I make my living in this industry and it's one of the problems that we face and deal with daily.

As to visiting other countries in Europe, I don't disagree that there is nothing for tourists and Luxembourg/Greece may be interesting to visit once or twice but that's about it. Do you want these tourists to keep going to the same countries year after year? Furthermore, shopping is not as good in these places as other parts of Europe such as Milan, Lucerne and Paris. But you are obviously not a planning expert if you would suggest to Thais to visit Lux and Greece and the Czech Republic on the same tour. I suggest you stick to your day job and not become a tour operator

Fact remains: tour operators (not just in Thailand but in other Asian countries as well, such as Vietnam, Indonesia and the Philippines) will try to look for workarounds where possible. No one is trying to scam anyone, no harm is being done to the countries being visited. Instead, hard currency is flowing into these economies in the form of hotel nights, coach transfers, entrance taxes to various Italian cities, restaurants, museums, guide fees and shops.

You call it "workarounds", most people call it scam. You (if you do) scam the Schengen system and rules, it is unlawful and therefor unacceptable.

Wow, never had a parking ticket in your life? Never exceeded a speed limit? Never ever broken a law, no matter how ridiculous or outdated?

Of course, but I never blamed authorities for the results of MY fault and misconduct, that's the difference

[Donutz]

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But since the Visa Code doesn't cover any special instructions regarding agencies (group tours etc.) -in favour or against them- it seems logical that articls I mentioned (9 and 23), apply to travel agencies aswell. There isn't anythnig regardnig quotas either. I wuold say emabssies can take applications any way they see fit, such as a daily quota but they would still need to respect the visa code and thus atleast accept an application within 2 weeks and after it has been accepted process it in 15 (sometimes 30) days.

Point 4 - yes, you are right if talking about individual applications. However, it is different for group applications. Embassies issue a per day quota (for eg, the Italian embassy has a quota of 50 applications per day. While this works fine most of the year, it becomes a problem during the high seasons of Songkran and October. There are agents who make a business of just selling their "quotas" to the more genuine outbound agents).

I can't find anything in the Visum Code that suggests the rules are different (more strict/limited) for group tours or a bunch of visa applications being made by a third party (service provider etc, travel agency etc.) when it comes to processing time (there is some stuff regarding checking the legitimacy etc. but that seens rather obvious).

I believe it is unlikely that you will find anything written down in black and white with regards to this. This is a purely operational procedure of individual embassies who do not wish to be flooded with visa applications or are unable to deal with the demand especially during the peak periods.

One needs to understand how the outbound travel industry works. There are two general forms of tour classification - leisure / series / collective and ad hoc incentives. The former are those advertised in the papers and anyone (with sufficient funds of course) can purchase places on these tours. The latter are corporate sponsored, usually to their agents / distributors etc.

Ad hoc incentives tend to operate outside of the peak months of April and October for many reasons. Travel dates are usually fixed far in advance and the number of pax are usually known and fixed as well in advance. Visa application typically takes two to three weeks and the travel agent is able to plan better and to obtain the date from the embassy to submit the visa applications.

The leisure business is very different. Peak travel period is the week before Songkran. Go to the airport anytime from 07 April onwards and you will know what I mean. Travel agents cannot know in advance how many pax will join the tour. They would have paid the deposit for a certain number of airline tickets and they need to try and sell as many seats as they can. Thus, they hold the tour open till the last minute. Only once they have closed the tour can they then try to get an opening at the "relevant" embassy for submitting the visa applications. The relevant embassy is usually the one where the tour group will spend the most number of days or in certain cases, the point of first entry.

Having spent the last 25 years in this industry, I could probably write a whole book about the hoops that travel agents from Thailand, Indonesia, Vietnam, Philippines etc have to jump through in order to conduct their business. Japan became visa free for Thais from last year. This is one of the key reasons why the percentage of travellers travelling to Europe this Songkran has dropped from 50% last Songkran to only 15% this time round, as Japan is a much easier destination to sell and to operate.

You may wish to consult either an immigration lawyer,Europe Advice / solvit or write to the EU Commisions representative in Thailand (they were helpful when I wrote them considering embassies violating the Code). Good chanche they italians will be slapped on the wrist if a higher authoritiy is made aware of these silly quotums (if this leads to not being able to apply within 2 weeks etc.).

"Some Thai tour agencies apply for Schengen visas with a Schengen country complete with hotel bookings and in line with the other requirements. When the visas are approved, they cancel all the bookings and travel to other countries instead," the statement read.

When some countries put unreasonably restrictive rules in place that abusively restrict people's right of free movements (i.e. travel), some have to use such methods and apply in other countries to obtain their rights.

I have had to request several times visa for non-EU citizens from Germany and France and both are a pain in the ass to obtain, I really felt sorry for my guests, they were treated like dirt.

The French even don't process the applications themselves, they use some kind of company to "prepare" the files, applicants are subject to all kinds of administrative finickry and abuse of power.

Disgusting.

That being said, I see nothing wrong with confining people with no valid visa to the airport to spend the night.

The French are violating the rules if they direct people to TLS, that should be (is!!!) entirely optional. as you will find in article 17 of the Visum Code. They must allow direct applications at the embassy thus saving you additional costs and hassle. If the French are unhelpful, complain with them, the French ministry of Foreign affairs, the EU Commission, the EU representatation in Thailand etc. Violations of the Code can only be stopped if people complain and inform various authorities!!! I've got a few embassies to change their policy/website which previously violated the Code. Required a mail to the ministries of foreign affairs though and a CC mailed to the EU representatives in Thailand.

[chotthee]

"Some Thai tour agencies apply for Schengen visas with a Schengen country complete with hotel bookings and in line with the other requirements. When the visas are approved, they cancel all the bookings and travel to other countries instead," the statement read.

When some countries put unreasonably restrictive rules in place that abusively restrict people's right of free movements (i.e. travel), some have to use such methods and apply in other countries to obtain their rights.

I have had to request several times visa for non-EU citizens from Germany and France and both are a pain in the ass to obtain, I really felt sorry for my guests, they were treated like dirt.

The French even don't process the applications themselves, they use some kind of company to "prepare" the files, applicants are subject to all kinds of administrative finickry and abuse of power.

Disgusting.

That being said, I see nothing wrong with confining people with no valid visa to the airport to spend the night.

It's just the way it is. Citizens of poor, developing countries traveling to developed nations have a high rate of overstaying and not returning home. These measures are put in place to ensure only the most affluent citizens of these countries, which are highly unlikely to overstay, will be allowed to enter. I don't see how anyone is "treated like dirt".

They (especially Thai) also have a high tendency of selling their bodies (especially pu55ies). This is a fact. Please do not dispute it.

[ALFREDO]

Slovakia get's less torusits from Thailand,

The austrians are a friendly bunch,

Good to see competent, friendly embassy staff there.

I think, that are the 120 GFs from Slovakians which visited them Not real Tourists.

Regarding Austrians, yes, true. -friendly-

Regarding the Embassy, was more easy a decade ago with Schengen Visa.

I do not hear the story now anymore, that Germans register on Austrian addresses to get Visa possibly more likely. Times have changed.

Me was lucky, as I had my Glory Days in the Good Old Times and could make 10 Visa for 5 GFs from Thailand and Cambodia I invited to me, over the years.

Yes no need to register an Austrian address anymore since the Austrian Embassy handles all German

and Latvian visas as well

Can you back up that information with a Link? Cannot see your information here.

By the way,the Consular section of the Austrian E/embassy has swapped out - outsourced her Visa applications.

http://www.vfsglobal.com/austria/thailand/tourist_docs_req.html

Edited May 6, 2014 by ALFREDO

[Donutz]

They (especially Thai) also have a high tendency of selling their bodies (especially pu55ies). This is a fact. Please do not dispute it.

"

&lt;deleted&gt;? Don't know wether to laugh or be offended... Ofcourse there are people who use a short stay visum to work (including in various sectors such as prostitution), which is in violation of the visa but it's not like there are planes full of illegal prostitues being flown in and out... Or do you have some statistics that make it plausible that such acitivies happen on a large scale?

Yes no need to register an Austrian address anymore since the Austrian Embassy handles all German

Can you back up that information with a Link? Cannot see your information here.

By the way,the Consular section of the Austrian E/embassy has swapped out - outsourced her Visa applications.

http://www.vfsglobal.com/austria/thailand/tourist_docs_req.html

The Germans don't use an other embassy to represent them (in visa matters):

Wo kann ich ein Visum beantragen?
Sie können Ihr Visum zur Einreise nach Deutschland bei der Deutschen Botschaft Bangkok oder bei den deutschen Honorarkonsuln in Phuket und Chiang Mai beantragen, wenn Sie in Thailand Ihren gewöhnlichen Aufenthalt haben, also hier wohnen, arbeiten oder studieren. Sollten Sie verschiedene Länder in Europa bereisen wollen, die den sogenannten Schengenstaaten angehören, können Sie das Visum nur dann bei der Deutschen Botschaft beantragen,

Source: http://www.bangkok.diplo.de/Vertretung/bangkok/de/08/0-Visabestimmungen.html

Translation: "You can apply for a visa at the embassy in BKK, or the honoury consulate in Phuket and Chang Mai. If you plan to visit more the one country in Europe you must apply at the embassy in BKK"

The Austrians and many others have outsourced the handling (accepting) of applications to third parties (VFS Global, TLS Contact) but that is entirely optional, under all circumstances can somebody apply directly at the embassy, as is clearly stated in article 17 which deals with external services providers. Sadly some embassies really push people towards VFS/TLS, not always stating you are required to use their services but in a more sneaky way such as "you may use" or "for a better servies the embassy now works together with..." and then give a link to TLS/VFS for more info and no link or info for applying or contact the embassy itself for questions, applications etc.

That is still in violation of the Visa Handbook though.. All we can do is complain, complain, complain, in writing to the embassy, ministry fo foreign affairs, EU Commission (Home Affairs), EU representative in Thailand etc.

[manarak]

"Some Thai tour agencies apply for Schengen visas with a Schengen country complete with hotel bookings and in line with the other requirements. When the visas are approved, they cancel all the bookings and travel to other countries instead," the statement read.

When some countries put unreasonably restrictive rules in place that abusively restrict people's right of free movements (i.e. travel), some have to use such methods and apply in other countries to obtain their rights.

I have had to request several times visa for non-EU citizens from Germany and France and both are a pain in the ass to obtain, I really felt sorry for my guests, they were treated like dirt.

The French even don't process the applications themselves, they use some kind of company to "prepare" the files, applicants are subject to all kinds of administrative finickry and abuse of power.

Disgusting.

That being said, I see nothing wrong with confining people with no valid visa to the airport to spend the night.

It's just the way it is. Citizens of poor, developing countries traveling to developed nations have a high rate of overstaying and not returning home. These measures are put in place to ensure only the most affluent citizens of these countries, which are highly unlikely to overstay, will be allowed to enter. I don't see how anyone is "treated like dirt".

They (especially Thai) also have a high tendency of selling their bodies (especially pu55ies). This is a fact. Please do not dispute it.

This would relate to working illegally without a valid work visa / work permit. The nature of the work is irrelevant.

[Grandong]

Why would any one want to step foot in Europe anyway? weather is crap, no interesting places to see, everywhere u go is same dull and boring, filled with third world asylum- immigrants. some might say for better opportunities... but well, are all Europeans better off? really???

Edited May 15, 2014 by Grandong

[geordiel]

Why would any one want to step foot in Europe anyway? weather is crap, no interesting places to see, everywhere u go is same dull and boring, filled with third world asylum- immigrants. some might say for better opportunities... but well, are all Europeans better off? really???

"no interesting places to see" ? You jest surely?

[3NUMBAS]

if theres a possible scam thais will uncover it and create a business round it

[3NUMBAS]

Why would any one want to step foot in Europe anyway? weather is crap, no interesting places to see, everywhere u go is same dull and boring, filled with third world asylum- immigrants. some might say for better opportunities... but well, are all Europeans better off? really???

the thoughts of an appalling ignoramus ^^

[The Deerhunter]

One of the things I love about my gf is when she got her UK and Schengen visas, she complained how difficult it was at first. But instead of blaming the countries who issue the visas, she blamed the governments present and past who have kept Thailand the way it is.

On that basis alone, she's a keeper!!

[The Deerhunter]

It's really not a scam... It is just circumventing a problem and getting what they want.

Lots of foreigners jump through convoluted and questionable hoops when trying to stay forever in Thailand.

And the Thais try and stop them. Your point is??????????????????? Tit for TAT (TAT being Tourism Authority of Thailand)

[The Deerhunter]

'Such a practice could cause direct problems for Thai tourists and the country's image as they could be rejected for entry into a country should the immigration officials learn about the scam.'

What image do Thai's really think they have in other countries?

I am back in Australia at the moment and when I say I was living in Thailand, everyone jokes about hookers

That's a very true but sad observation Tim. Tell anyone you live in Thailand, are going on holiday in Thailand, or have a Thai wife and a very high % automatically think of prostitution and the sex trade.

As if it doesn't exist, far worse in some countries too.

In my country, the first thing anyone new asked when heard about my Thai gf was "How did we meet." Here in Thailand, Thais do the same if they meet me & she is not there for them to ask. This has continued over the 9 years we have been together. Everywhere, people associate Thai women with hookers. Did the Russian thing before settling with a Thai her-indoors. With The Russians the first question was, Did we meet on line or by mail order catalogue?

[The Deerhunter]

''Thais refused entry to Germany because of scam, says Thai embassy"

Thais? Scam? Who'd have thought it.

Kind of clever though.

"Kind of clever though."

Certainly more clever than farangs claiming to be deaf and passing out key chains at restaurants in Phuket & Pattaya while seeking donations, but not everyone can be as tricky as Bernie Madoff ... or as mindlessly greedy as his victims ... or as incredibly stupid & incompetent as those meant to protect investors in the US.

.

Watch " The wolf of Wallstreet" ( a Hollywoodised true story) AND "Inside Job." a really good doco on the 2008 meltdown.