4 year old desktop vs. new laptop

chubby · May 7, 2014

I've been thinking of bringing a new laptop to BKK, instead of my 4 year old laptop. But, when I compare the CPUs, my 4 year version somehow seems to not be much inferior

to the new laptop.

Granted, clock speed is not everything, and I'm going to get a 240gb SSD HD with the laptop too.

But, can anyone comment on whether these CPUs are going to perform mostly similarly (i'm not going to be doing gaming)

http://cpuboss.com/cpus/Intel-Core-i7-4810MQ-vs-AMD-Phenom-II-X4-945-95W

apiwan · May 7, 2014

If your in UK buy one there.

Can get a better deal in the sales.

Depends what you want it for ?

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

IMHO · May 7, 2014

If you're not doing anything compute intensive like gaming, or video encoding, you won't notice the difference between CPU's... but you will notice a huge difference between an SSD drive and something still spinning platters.

chubby · May 7, 2014

i'm in the states, i'm considering full drive encryption, though it's just for home use, and limited files are very sensitive, and since i'm in the process looking for an upgrade to the desktop specs, that will be desktop replacement with a docking station to run two large monitors etc ..... just seems like CPUs should have become vastly improved in 4 years .....

Pib · May 7, 2014

CPUs have advanced quite a bit in the last 4 years, however, a big increase in "benchmark" results does not necessary mean a big increase in "real world" speed like in how fast certain software operates. Just because you increase the horsepower of your CPU by 10 fold does not mean you computer with be 10 times faster...you probably be lucky to get a real world two fold increase when clearing away the benchmark hype.

Between the two CPUs you listed the Intel CPU is significantly better...and being a 4th generation, quad core chip, with integrated GPU4600 is very good. A 4th generations chip will run a lot cooler. Back in Dec I bought a new laptop and got it with the i7-4702MQ Intel CPU...also a quad core, 4th generation chip, with integrated GPU4600....been very happy with it. I bought the laptop at BananaIT in Bangkok. I would recommend you get a 4th generation, Quad Core Intel i7 CPU.

Although my new laptop came with a standard 1TB hard disk drive (spinning platter type) I have a Samsung 840 EVO 500GB SSD inbound as we speak....a friend passing through will deliver it in about two weeks ($245/approx Bt7850 from TigerDirect in the U.S....here in Thailand the drive costs around $465/Bt15,000...larger SSDs in Thailand are VERY pricey)...I'm looking forward to getting it. I know it will make some very noticeable speed improvement is some computer/software operations, especially anything that requires a lot of disk activity.. And just last week I installed a Seagate 600 Series 480GB SSD ($220/Bt7050) from TigerDirect in an 8-year old Toshiba laptop (my backup computer) using a early generation Celeron CPU, 2GB of memory, and running Win 7....I kid you not, it was like I replaced a 4 cylinder car engine with an 8 cylinder engine...just an amazing improvement in computer operations....just amazing. Anything that required a lot of hard disk activity has just been supercharged.

Summary: get your new computer with a SSD if possible. Or, just put a SSD in your 4 year laptop.

Edited May 7, 2014 by Pib

properperson · May 7, 2014

bloke down our way still Using 383 DX with 1mb ram and running C/PM....loves it apparently....

guzzi850m2 · May 7, 2014

I am a huge desk top PC fan, they are more reliable than a laptop, easier/cheaper to fix/upgrade.

It all depends off-course, I have a office (man cave) in the house next to the living room so I have a nice permanent set-up in there but if you live in a small condo maybe not so practical.

I also have a ultrabook, a netbook & a tablet but hardly ever uses them at home. My son (4 years old) sometimes play around with the tablet for watching kids stuff on YouTube but he also prefer the desk top so I sometimes let him watch on the 22"er and I can surf on the 27"er.

I was thinking about getting a new desk top pc (the one in service is from 2011) but then I thought, why? I decided to wait a bit until the new low power graphics cards can be had in higher specs. I only got USB 2.0 on it and I can see when comparing to the 3.0 on the ultra book that 3.0 is nice when transferring huge amount of data but then again when I am home I am on holidays so not really in a big hurry.

Carmine6 · May 7, 2014

CPUs have vastly improved in the last 4 years. However, it's much less noticeable than it used to be since even older mid range laptops and PCs get the job done for most people. I was going through the same process early this year and was assuming I could get a comparable laptop to my 4 year old one for half the price. Turns out the CPU benchmarks at that price range were worse than the CPU I have, since I'd gone with an almost top of the line I7 back then.

So I went even cheaper and got a Win 8.1 tablet with an Atom processor. Though it benchmarks around the same as an older laptop of mine running XP, the performance is significantly better. There are many new things I can not even run on that old laptop, like many flash based games on Facebook. But I can on my US$300 Win 8.1 tablet.

What makes the difference is it is running Win 8.1, it has an SSD, 2GB memory instead of 1GB, better integrated graphics, and the CPU seems much better in spite of benchmarking similar.

The CPUs you're comparing don't benchmark so close to each other. So probably you will notice a difference. Though you already have a fairly high ranked CPU. Sort this by rank:

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_list.php

That I7 is ranked 92, which is pretty high if you look at some of the prices of the CPUs that rank higher.

The AMD is ranked 410, which is a respectable score given it is 4 years old. It is also still on the High End CPUs chart too. Was poking around the Staples website and current $500 - $700 models have CPU around that level.

DogNo1 · May 7, 2014

Some of the newer Gigabyte and ASUS MBs have both USB 3 and Thunderbolt ports if you REALLY want fast!

chubby · May 8, 2014

ya, I'm a bit conflicted, in that I actually prefer desktops, but don't see how I can pack it off to Thailand, as I'm already, going to not have the room, and worry it would be damaged, during the process, and maybe looking at an excuse to for more speed, the AMD phenom has 8gb ram, I have a OK recent HP laptop now, and could buy a SSD for it, but I don't trust it as the monitor backlighting blanked out last year, and could only fix it , by smacking it, if I buying a new SSD for it, then I need an OS CD that will allow me to install to it, I'm a little fuzzy on whether I have that CD , if it came with one, and whether windoze will allow me to install , so I might have to add $100 to any new SSD, but PIB that is good info on the price for the 512mb, If I buy a custom laptop from xoticpc.com , I could save some money If I am able to install my own SSD into the slot 1, but they don't sell custom laptops without HD at all , so I'm thinking of just having them put in the slot 1 SSD at 240 gb , as for $50 i don't have to figure out how to crack the laptop and put it in myself, also they have a little blurb on there "configured as a OS drive" , which I don't understand what that means :

240GB Crucial M5 mSATA SSD - Preconfigured as an OS Drive ( Operating System – Drive C: ) ( + 175 ) 240GB Crucial M5 mSATA SSD ( Storage Drive ) ( + 175 )

then I gotta choose from win 7 vs. 8 , i've never used win 8 'cept at bestbuy

I wonder also when I get the OS on the SSD, will it matter, if I have a 7200 HD vs. and SSD for the data drive etc ; or does most of the speed come via having the OS on the SSD ?

Pib · May 8, 2014

Most laptops only have the internal capability to install "one" hard for your Operating System (OS), programs, data, etc. So, in such a case you would need to get a SSD to put all your stuff on. Now if your laptop can handle two hard drives (like having a mSATA slot and a regular SATA slot) then the SSD should be used to load your OS and as many of your programs as possible...and if using a regular hard disk drive (HDD) also you would want to store your data (i.e., video, music, docs, briefings, etc) on that drive.

Putting your OS on a regular HDD means your computer would still boot up, update, run programs, shut down slower than a SSD...you would miss out on much of the speed gain a SSD can offer a computer since the bulk of the speed gain comes from loading the OS and programs; not the data files. If having two drives in a computer, one SSD and one HDD, you want your OS and as many programs as possible on the SSD....then put your data and stuff on the HDD or the 2nd SSD. Whether you get a computer with one BIG SSD or two small SSDs is pretty much just a cost analysis decision...which way is cheaper.

A SSD will boot up a lot faster than a 7200 or 5400RPM drive....plenty of benchmarks, speedtests, youtube videos, etc., have already shown that...and I have personally experienced it. A couple of the major speed advantages a SSD has over a HDD is the ability to handle small files (like the 4K size) much, much faster and having a much faster file access time. And of course a SSD can handle larque sequential files faster than a HDD. Go to this webpage and read up on Sequential Read/Write and especially the 4K (small files) Random Read/Write layman's info. SSD advertising hype concentrates on a SSD 500MB plus sequential file read/write speed which is indeed important but the 4K Random Read/Write speed which comprises approx 45% of data use is equally important. I bet you have looked an your hard disk activity light sometimes and wonder why it's blinking so much...well, a large part of that blinking is accessing tons of small files...and each time a small file is loaded there is going to be some access (dead) time as the read-write arm takes around 12ms on the average to access/move to the next file. With a SSD the access time is going to be under significantly under 1ms.

Regarding what to do with the HDD you would take out of the laptop when replacing it with a SSD....just buy a $10 external enclosure box, put the HDD in it, and now you have an external drive for files storage, backup, etc. Maybe just consider that HDD your backup drive.

Go with Win 8.1....don't hurt you head trying to figure out if you still want to go with Win 7.

Pib · May 8, 2014

CPUs have vastly improved in the last 4 years. However, it's much less noticeable than it used to be since even older mid range laptops and PCs get the job done for most people. I was going through the same process early this year and was assuming I could get a comparable laptop to my 4 year old one for half the price. Turns out the CPU benchmarks at that price range were worse than the CPU I have, since I'd gone with an almost top of the line I7 back then.

So I went even cheaper and got a Win 8.1 tablet with an Atom processor. Though it benchmarks around the same as an older laptop of mine running XP, the performance is significantly better. There are many new things I can not even run on that old laptop, like many flash based games on Facebook. But I can on my US$300 Win 8.1 tablet.

What makes the difference is it is running Win 8.1, it has an SSD, 2GB memory instead of 1GB, better integrated graphics, and the CPU seems much better in spite of benchmarking similar.

The CPUs you're comparing don't benchmark so close to each other. So probably you will notice a difference. Though you already have a fairly high ranked CPU. Sort this by rank:

http://www.cpubenchmark.net/cpu_list.php

That I7 is ranked 92, which is pretty high if you look at some of the prices of the CPUs that rank higher.

The AMD is ranked 410, which is a respectable score given it is 4 years old. It is also still on the High End CPUs chart too. Was poking around the Staples website and current $500 - $700 models have CPU around that level.

Benchmark hype compared to real world speed is indeed like night and day. My 8 year old laptop with Intel Celeron M 1.60GHz CPU pulls a CPU Mark Score of 375; my 5 month old laptop with Intel i7-4702MQ 2.2GHz CPU pulls a CPU Mark Score of 7327 which is 19.5 times faster than the Celeron M score. See this Link for comparison.

Now is my new i7 CPU laptop almost 20 times faster than my old Celeron CPU laptop....heck no! For day-to-day common stuff like browsing, emailing, word processing, moving around in the Windows OS menus, etc., there is no real world BIG difference. Now I'm sure for gaming, video editing, etc., the Celeron would make you fall asleep waiting for it to complete the operation while the i7 would move right along. And of course it's just not the CPU that makes a difference it's the motherboard, chipset, RAM, separate GPU, hard drive, etc., that are also a big players in how fast (or slow) your computer is.

But I do know putting the SSD in my 8 year old laptop which only has a SATA 1 (150MB/sec) speed interface which the SSD must wait on since it has 500MB/sec plus capability compared to current day SATA 3 (600MB/sec) interface like in my new laptop made a big, big difference in how responsive the old laptop is....just an amazing difference...I don't mine using it at all now.

guzzi850m2 · May 8, 2014

I agree with what your guys are saying.

My ultrabook runs Win 8.1 64 bit and my desk top pc runs Win7 64 bit. The ultra book starts up much faster than the desk top pc but when the desk top is up and running it's faster due to better processor (they are both i5's and both have 8gb of ram).

When I replace my desk top pc it will be with Win 8.X for sure no need to buy a dated OP system (Win 7) but better get the latest.

I never owned a PC with SSD, but that is another thing to add for the next desk top pc, they are getting cheaper and with larger capacity all the time now.

Pib · May 8, 2014

Yea, Win 8.1 definitely boots up fast. My normal bootup time from pressing the power switch until I first see the Win 8.1 Start screen is 14 to 21 seconds....I use to say 16 to 21 seconds based on the previous bootups I had timed....but my bootup today was 14 seconds. And that is with a spinning platter 5400RPM 1TB hard disk drive; the bootup time is suppose to be under 10 seconds with a SSD...I will be able to confirm that in a few weeks once I get the Samsung 840 EVO 500GB SSD.

Now, the Start screen appearing at 14 seconds does not mean the laptop has finished its complete bootup. When you use one of those programs that can time complete bootup time, it normally takes around 60 seconds with Wifi turned off and 90 seconds with Wifi turned on. But even through the complete bootup is not complete at 14 seconds I can still click on icon/programs on the Start Screen or Desktop screen and they will start up although slower since the complete bootup is still underway for about 60 to 90 seconds. This 60 to 90 complete bootup time is based on using the timer program/freeware called BootRacer which you can downloaded at this webpage. Of course everyone's "complete" bootup time will be different even if everyone had identical hardware because everyone will have different programs installed/set to start during boot like different firewall/antivirus programs, utility programs, etc.

Edited May 8, 2014 by Pib

Carmine6 · May 8, 2014

Yea, Win 8.1 definitely boots up fast. My normal bootup time from pressing the power switch until I first see the Win 8.1 Start screen is 14 to 21 seconds....I use to say 16 to 21 seconds based on the previous bootups I had timed....but my bootup today was 14 seconds. And that is with a spinning platter 5400RPM 1TB hard disk drive; the bootup time is suppose to be under 10 seconds with a SSD...I will be able to confirm that in a few weeks once I get the Samsung 840 EVO 500GB SSD.

Now, the Start screen appearing at 14 seconds does not mean the laptop has finished its complete bootup. When you use one of those programs that can time complete bootup time, it normally takes around 60 seconds with Wifi turned off and 90 seconds with Wifi turned on. But even through the complete bootup is not complete at 14 seconds I can still click on icon/programs on the Start Screen or Desktop screen and they will start up although slower since the complete bootup is still underway for about 60 to 90 seconds. This 60 to 90 complete bootup time is based on using the timer program/freeware called BootRacer which you can downloaded at this webpage. Of course everyone's "complete" bootup time will be different even if everyone had identical hardware because everyone will have different programs installed/set to start during boot like different firewall/antivirus programs, utility programs, etc.

Under 10 seconds is the reported boot time of my Win 8.1 tablet with SSD. Since I have a PIN, I can't do it that fast. But from sleep, I can hit power button, swipe the cover screen up, enter PIN, hit the desktop icon, and be on desktop in 3 seconds. So fast now, that I actually use sleep mode and it doesn't crash programs like it used to on prior OS versions.

chubby · May 8, 2014

are you saying that the OS would be better on Sata Slot 1 than as a HD ?

This page doesn't really say what speed the SATA is , I would assume it is a later version based on the base cost of the laptop but not sure

http://www.xoticpc.com/sager-np2670-clevo-w670srq-p-6517.html?wconfigure=yes

I'm looking to save a few dollars on the new laptop by buying and installing the OS myself, but I don't know how hard it is to put in a SATA slot 1 card/drive, on a laptop , and/or if it's preferable to run the OS off the SSD HD vs SSD SATA Slot 1 , etc

I believe I'm correct, in that were I to remove my old laptop HD, and install a SSD, I will have to buy an installation CD of win 8.1 , which will allow for only 1 install, there is no way to create an installation win 7 from the current OS , I seem to only have "recovery CDs" , so this adds to the cost of a upgrade of my older laptop ......

Carmine6 · May 9, 2014

are you saying that the OS would be better on Sata Slot 1 than as a HD ?

This page doesn't really say what speed the SATA is , I would assume it is a later version based on the base cost of the laptop but not sure

http://www.xoticpc.com/sager-np2670-clevo-w670srq-p-6517.html?wconfigure=yes

I'm looking to save a few dollars on the new laptop by buying and installing the OS myself, but I don't know how hard it is to put in a SATA slot 1 card/drive, on a laptop , and/or if it's preferable to run the OS off the SSD HD vs SSD SATA Slot 1 , etc

I believe I'm correct, in that were I to remove my old laptop HD, and install a SSD, I will have to buy an installation CD of win 8.1 , which will allow for only 1 install, there is no way to create an installation win 7 from the current OS , I seem to only have "recovery CDs" , so this adds to the cost of a upgrade of my older laptop ......

On that last topic, you can actually "clone" the C drive, without having to re-install Win 7 from scratch on a new drive. With the new drive they should give a CD disk with a utility that will "clone" the system drive. Not sure if that's the right terminology, but it copies the drive but in a way that it is bootable so you can boot with it. Everything comes over as is, including data and settings, and it'll start up exactly like the old drive. You can also download the utility from the manufacturers website if there's no CD. Though I've never done an SSD, just installed larger standard hard drives or replacement drives. Should be the same process.

In a PC, it was fairly easy as it just takes putting the new drive into the case, starting up, and running the utility. The last one I did, I had to do either a cable selection or shorting some pins in the drive or something similar to set the new drive. But I think now this is done by the bios so after the drive is copied you re-set which drive is the boot drive.

For a laptop, you would need an enclosure to put the old drive into and connect it to the USB or another port if you had a different type, and then put the new drive in the laptop. Those enclosures are usually fairly inexpensive, then as Pib mentioned, you can leave the old drive in it as a backup/external drive. Then you run the utility and it'll copy the drive. I may have that step too quick as maybe you put the new drive in the enclosure first, format it, and maybe copy it. Then swap them. The CD tells you what to do, in what order.

Here's an enclosure. Not saying it is the right one for you, just that it would be similar and has to be the right spec for your drive. If a PC drive, it is a much larger size.

http://www.amazon.com/SANOXY%C2%AE-SATA-Hard-Drive-Enclosure/dp/B001AAVA08/ref=lp_160354011_1_21?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1399594686&sr=1-21

Others have separate power and can do different standards, like this one does IDE drives also:

http://www.amazon.com/Sabrent-Aluminum-Enclosure-Cooling-EC-UEIS7/dp/B001PHLMAE/ref=lp_160354011_1_22?s=pc&ie=UTF8&qid=1399594686&sr=1-22

Just found this on Seagate's website:

http://www.seagate.com/do-more/laptop-sshd-upgrade-master-dm/

Pib · May 9, 2014

are you saying that the OS would be better on Sata Slot 1 than as a HD ?

This page doesn't really say what speed the SATA is , I would assume it is a later version based on the base cost of the laptop but not sure

http://www.xoticpc.com/sager-np2670-clevo-w670srq-p-6517.html?wconfigure=yes

I'm looking to save a few dollars on the new laptop by buying and installing the OS myself, but I don't know how hard it is to put in a SATA slot 1 card/drive, on a laptop , and/or if it's preferable to run the OS off the SSD HD vs SSD SATA Slot 1 , etc

I believe I'm correct, in that were I to remove my old laptop HD, and install a SSD, I will have to buy an installation CD of win 8.1 , which will allow for only 1 install, there is no way to create an installation win 7 from the current OS , I seem to only have "recovery CDs" , so this adds to the cost of a upgrade of my older laptop ......

If your get a computer with a SSD and old style HDD, put the OS and as many programs as possible on the SSD simply because a SSD is faster than a HDD.

Computers sold now days (and probably the last 4 to 5 years or so) come with SATA 3, which has a speed of 6Gigabits/600MegaBytes per second. See this Wiki link for more info on SATA revisions.

SATA 3 came out in 2008. Even SATA 1 at a mere speed of 1.5Gb/150MB per second was more than fast enough for even the fastest 7200RPM HDDs, Even with the one of the fastest 7200RPM drives like the Seagate 7200 Barracuda 1TB it can just barely pull 150MB/sec large sequential file Read speed and for small files (i.e., like around 4KB) it can't even pull a mere 1MB/sec (one MB) small file random Read speed. See this Link for proof/real world tests by everyday people like you and me. And keep in mind that almost half of the file read/writes done by your computer are small files averaging around 4KB...this is why disk benchmarking programs like Crystal Disk Benchmark have 4KB random read/write tests in additional to large sequential file read/write tests. People get carried away in reading the advertising hype which usually only quotes large sequential file Read speed, but unfortunately due to the nature of software the computer spends almost half it's time reading/writing "small, random" files which slows a spinning platter HDD down to a snails pace in comparison to its ability to read/write large sequential files.

Now a SSD like the Samsung 840 EVO 256GB which is one of the best selling SSDs has a real world large sequential file Read speed significantly north of 400MB/sec and a small random file Read speed north 30MB/sec. See this Link. Those speeds are a heck of a lot faster than the 7200RPM drive.

And when it comes to "access" time which is where the drive needs to find the next file to load, well a HDD is going to average in the 12 milliseconds ballpark and the SSD significantly south of 1ms. Yeap, even the fastest 7200RPM HDD is a slow poke compared to slowest SSD in sequential file, random file, and access times....not to imply the SSDs superior benchmarks results will results in vastly noticeable real world computer speed in all the different computer operations and different software a person might use. For some operations you'll notice a big difference; for other operations you won't because the disk drive was not a key factor in how fast the computer responded as it may have relied more on the power of the CPU versus how fast data could be pulled from the disk drive.

For the home user the spinning platter HDD will continue to be replaced by SSDs at an increasing rate....it would happen at a really fast rate if SSDs didnt' cost so much more than HDDs...but SSDs are a lot cheaper today than they were a few years...they finally reached a price where my cheap-ass bought two....a Seagate 600 Series 480GB and a Samsung 840 EVO 500GB for my two laptops. My two laptops do not have a mSata slot (the one you referred to as Slot 1)...my laptops only have one regular SATA slot for a HDD/SDD, even though I could remove the DVD drive and replace it with a hard drive adapter but I won't do that.

If you were replacing your old HDD with a SSD in your computer you could just "clone" it...super easy process...which means your current OS/software/data would be duplicated (cloned) on the new SSD like Carmine6 described. No need to buy an OS, reload your programs/data, etc. If your hard drive in your laptop is easy to access/change then cloning/changing a drive is not much harder than changing a light bulb.

chubby · May 9, 2014

ok, I definitely believe you on the SSD front, I'm just trying to see if I can save some money, by buying my own mSATA (slot 1 on the xoticpc website), so I'm needing to know as to the likely difficulty of installing my own mSATA if I go and buy it myself. As xoticpc also has a choice to make "preconfigured as an OS" ; but if the 240gb mSATA and a regular 1TB HD are almost as good as a 240gb OS mSATA; and a 500gb SSD combo , then I'll just let xoticpc install the mSATA ?card on the MB ?

I think I will feel a little cramped with < 1 TB combined total and all SSD for that is quite pricy, if the data access SSD part isn't much of a difference, though does seem SSD are more likely to protect from data loss than plain-old HD technology, which interests me, etc

Pib · May 9, 2014

A mSATA SSD drive simply plugs into its slot....kinda like how a SIM card or SD memory card plug into their slots....no more difficult than that. Now what may present some difficultly is "how easy or hard is it "to access" the mSATA slot, regular drive, and/or RAM modules. Basically, Does the laptop come with easy access doors? Don't assume it does and more and more laptops are during away with easy access doors.

In earlier days laptop makers always made access doors to easily reach your RAM module area, hard drive area, etc., but that's not always true now days as some/more-and-more laptops don't come with easy access doors. Instead there is some significantly disassembly required. Example: my older Toshiba laptops had access doors to the hard drive and RAM modules...I could swap out a hard drive/RAM module by merely flipping the computer over, remove one small screw which secured the access door, then remove the little door with my fingernails, and there was my drive/RAM modules which I could swap out as easy as changing a light bulb. However, but, on my new Lenovo Z510 laptop it has "no" easy access doors...to access the hard drive, RAM, and/or battery I must first remove the keyboard, then remove the DVD, then remove a bunch of screws which are in the keyboard area that is securing the laptop's bottom plastic cover, and then pry off the entire plastic bottom of the laptop. I've already did that once when installing 4GB of additional RAM...it came with 4GB and then I added another 4GB about a month later. Now I knew the components access issue when buying this particular laptop and wasn't really thrilled about it, but this particular laptop was the one I wanted based on the other local choices I had...plus Lenovo provides a detailed maintenance manual on their web site that walks a person through the disassembly and I have an electronics repair background....plus I knew it's rare that a person needs to access the hard drive/RAM/battery area...it's not like it something you do everyday or even every year.

Summary: swapping out/installing a mSATA SSD or regular SSD will be easy "if" the computer has easy access doors; otherwise, there could be some significant laptop disassembly involved which would probably scare 99% of the people off to where they would take it to a shop or buy it with the stuff already installed. So, if you plan to do some upgrades later, want to do them yourself, but don't want to get into laptop disassembly, be sure to buy a laptop with easy access doors...don't assume the laptop comes with the doors...some do, some don't. From looking at the Sager NP2670 you are interested in, it does come with a big easy access door on to bottom to easily access the drive/RAM/mSATA/etc.

Edited May 9, 2014 by Pib

Nowisee · May 9, 2014

Had a 24" iMac in the US.

Bought a 14" MBP SSD here online. Boots up in about 12 seconds. More power than I need.

I miss the screen on the iMac, (not so much as time goes on) but if I ever "need" the real-estate again, 24" external.

Now that I have gone lappy, probably won't ever go back to a desktop...love the mobility.

Also bought an external HD of 1 TB.

astral · May 9, 2014

ya, I'm a bit conflicted, in that I actually prefer desktops, but don't see how I can pack it off to Thailand,

Best to strip it down to the motherboard and disks

and pack these in your suitcase

Then buy a new case and power supply when you arrive

Pib · May 9, 2014

ya, I'm a bit conflicted, in that I actually prefer desktops, but don't see how I can pack it off to Thailand,

Best to strip it down to the motherboard and disks

and pack these in your suitcase

Then buy a new case and power supply when you arrive

That would be a good approach considering shipping costs. Or, if totally in love with the desktop, just open up the case, stuff a bunch of underwear and other cloths in it to ensure that valuable shipping space is used/filled. Now days it's the shipping cost that kills you.

I'm pretty much like Nowisee...about 10 years ago I transitioned from a desktop to laptop because I need the mobility around the house, I took my laptop on work & pleasure trips, etc. And since I'm not a gamer I didn't need a big monitor and 500 horsepower graphics card. Plus, desktops can get pricey as people add this and that, high end graphics card, a CPU cooler than looks like a car radiator system, a power supply which could power a small city, etc. Oh yea, let's not forget the neon lights on the inside.

But one thing for sure, when a desktop breaks at least it's a lot easier to repair/replace the defective component than on a laptop. Laptops are pretty much at the point now that unless it's the hard drive, RAM module, or some easily replaced item, it's just not economical to get it repaired many times...and being able to find a quality repair shop for laptops can be a real challenge.

chubby · May 9, 2014

hmm excellent idea, will have to reconsider a bit.

I also have a relatively new 27" LED monitor too, to schlep over to BKK , can't disassemble it, maybe I'd bring it as a carryon item ...

but, bottom line, is I want to be mobile enough, that moving is easy , so was thinking quality laptop with docking station and large monitors , perhaps the older laptop would be a reliable backup though they are both /going to be 17" ; I might save a bit going 15" especially if I do docking station with 2 27" monitors ...... but my eyes are getting old, I'd rather have 3 monitors really

ya, I'm a bit conflicted, in that I actually prefer desktops, but don't see how I can pack it off to Thailand,

Best to strip it down to the motherboard and disks

and pack these in your suitcase

Then buy a new case and power supply when you arrive

Edited May 9, 2014 by chubby

guzzi850m2 · May 10, 2014

When you are used to large monitors it's hard to go back.

I run a 27" and an aging 22" , when the 22" dies I will buy another 27" but the 27" super HD Dell was expensive at 18.000 baht but boy it's good man. I often watches movies/TV series on it since I don't want to expose my 4 year old son to Dr Hannibal Lechter and other violent stuff, he-he.

Yes you can hand carry your 27" when flying to Thailand why not and Pib's idea regarding stripping the desk top down and bring it in in parts is excellent.

Pib · May 10, 2014

Stripping the desktop down was astral's good idea; I just recommend maybe packing some underwear/clothes inside the case to fully utilize valuable space and just ship the whole desktop if unable to part with it.

Sent from my Samsung S4

chubby · May 10, 2014

most SSD bought new come with "cloning software" ? eg the Samsung EVO ?

Must the HDs be of similar size to do the cloning ?

Carmine6 · May 10, 2014

most SSD bought new come with "cloning software" ? eg the Samsung EVO ? Must the HDs be of similar size to do the cloning ?

Shouldn't need to be, as one of the most common reasons to swap drives is increasing the size. I've done 4 without doing a new OS install, and I think maybe 1 was to replace a bad drive with a new one of the same size. The others were to a much larger size. I had two notebooks of I think 30gb and 20gb, that I went to 80gb or 100gb. My desktop I took from 320gb to 750gb or something along those lines.

Could be more difficult going to a smaller drive, but probably shouldn't be getting a drive that's smaller than the space you're using right now.

Going to larger size:

http://lifehacker.com/5517688/how-to-upgrade-your-tiny-hard-drive-to-a-spacious-new-one-and-keep-your-data-intact

Going to smaller size SSD:

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2098426/move-from-a-hard-drive-to-an-ssd.html

Pib · May 11, 2014

When buying a hard drive in retail packaging most will come with cloning software or tell you where to download it. If coming in a OEM/barebones package there may be no documentation at all...you just need to know where to download the cloning software. Like the Seagate 480GB SSD I recently bought it came in an OEM barebones package, but I knew to go to the Seagate website and download their DiscManager software. Samsung drives have a piece of software called Samsung Data Migration you can download. But this software provided by manaufacturers usually require one of your drives (old one or new one) to be one of their drives....that is the Seagate software will look to ensure a Seagate drive is detected. Plently of other software out there like Acronis trial version or AOMEI Backupper freeware which will allow you to clone any combination of manufacturers software.

The only thing you need to consider size-wise in cloning is to be sure to buy a big enough drive to hold your software. Example: if you have 500GB hard drive say with only 150GB of stuff loaded (OS, programs, data, just everything) then be sure to buy a drive that is at least 250GB in size. Or if you currently have a 250GB hard drive that is almost full, just be sure to buy another drive of equal size "or larger" for the cloning software to move over all your stuff. The cloning software will do all the size adjustment stuff automatically when cloning.

I expect when most folks move to a SSD, especially laptop folks, they downsize due to SSD cost....like the laptop came with a 1TB HDD, they have a couple hundred GB's of stuff loaded and they downsize to a 500GB or 250GB SSD. Now a lot of people with Desktop use a SSD just for their OS and some core programs and put everything else on a HDD. Now if a person was going to get a laptop with a mSATA drive slot and regular SATA drive slot they could get a small GB sized mSATA SSD for not too much money and a regular HDD and put their OS and some programs on the mSATA SSD and everything else on the SATA HDD. But when splitting stuff between two of more drives you'll need to get involved in a little more than just a straight cloning as since you are storing all your stuff on multiple drives....not a big or hard issue...just a little more work to "initially" do. But for me, I've never been into multiple drives or partitions for day to day use of my computers....for me I just use one drive partitioned as C drive and all the data I save for every program get put in subfolders under a master folder I name "mydata." But to each his own in how they manage the storage of their programs and data on drives. I have a couple of external drives that I use to do occasional data backups/images.

chubby · May 11, 2014

OK, following your lead guess I'm leaning towards the EVO instead of the cheaper Crucial 256gb, so will give it a shot on existing laptop and go from there on whether to ditch the desktop for a primary new laptop and docking station, thx again

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