Thai culture does not seem especially Eastern/submissive

[Hal65]

Yesterday I went to a Toastmasters event held in Thailand. Toastmasters is a public speaking organization with gatherings around the world.

At my home club in the US, there were a mix of participants at different skill levels, from shy folks who have trouble standing in front of groups and perhaps lack in confidence, to highly professional and polished speakers with years of experience.

Before the meeting in Bangkok, I assumed most participants would be on the shy side. I was quite surprised to find that most of them spoke with authority and even charisma, cracking jokes and being silly just like Americans.They were teasing each other relentlessly, joking about other members age/oldness/seniority, how sexy and beautiful some of the female members are (said in a playful/joking way), and other types of humor I would never have expected.

There is a portion of the meeting where evaluators grade the speakers. The evaluations were critical, but also friendly. The evaluators did not hold back, as often they do in some US clubs to guard the feelings of the speakers.

I have to be careful with my wording here because I understand people can get offended by labeling a culture as "submissive". But that's what I've heard the Thai culture is, at least compared to Western cultures. More open, tolerant, submissive, humble/passive. Yet I didn't see that at all.

Are times changing, or did I just come into this country with false ideas?

[thailiketoo]

Western people used to think things like that before Pearl Harbor and Singapore. Some on Thai Visa still do and are freaked when told they are wrong. I'd say 50% of the posts on Thai Visa are people complaining about the local citizenry not calling them Bwana in one way or another. For example, "the education is crap" is code for they don't call me Bwana at school. The "service is crap" is code for they don't call me Bwana in the mall. And so on....

[CaptHaddock]

But that's what I've heard the Thai culture is, at least compared to Western cultures. More open, tolerant, submissive, humble/passive. Yet I didn't see that at all.

Maybe it's time to conclude that what you've "heard" is nothing more than a ridiculously simple-minded caricature and that the reality of Thai culture, or any culture for that matter, is vastly more complex. You might, for example, read sociology books on the subject, such as those by Baker and Pongpaichit.

[Thaiberius]

Thai's are anything but submissive. Never confuse saving face with backing down. They can and will bite back.

[CharlieH]

Speakers like that are "performers" and like any stage type act are rehearsed and rarely give any resemblance to the individual character. Just like any other "stand-up" performer.

[Hal65]

Speakers like that are "performers" and like any stage type act are rehearsed and rarely give any resemblance to the individual character. Just like any other "stand-up" performer.

What you say is true for advance speakers, but the majority are regular folks struggling to stand in front of a group then speak their thoughts. their personality shines through more than any contrived act they put on. (I know this because I've been a Toastmaster for two years myself)

[ultimate weapon]

It's kind of silly well for OP to equate thai culture to the event he was attending. It's a toastmasters event so they definitely need to get their act up. Does he know of acting up for an event? Oh lord.

[Hal65]

It's kind of silly well for OP to equate thai culture to the event he was attending. It's a toastmasters event so they definitely need to get their act up. Does he know of acting up for an event? Oh lord.

There's no reason for hostile language; you can make your point without attacking me. Your post neglects the conversations that happened before and after the meeting, as well as all the dialogues that happened outside of the speeches. The speeches themselves are only a short portion of the meeting.

As I said, most people do not "act" out their speeches. They simply make note of a few topics they want to talk about, and then stand up in front of a group and talk about it. You are overestimating the formality of these events.

[brit1984]

sometimes thais can seem submissive, for example when they say "up to you", but normally it's just because they don't care either way about that particular decision

try getting them to do something they don't want to do like hiking in the hills on a sunny day or eating dinner at an indian restaurant, and you will see that (most) thais can be quite stubborn/strong minded

[Soutpeel]

sometimes thais can seem submissive, for example when they say "up to you", but normally it's just because they don't care either way about that particular decision

try getting them to do something they don't want to do like hiking in the hills on a sunny day or eating dinner at an indian restaurant, and you will see that (most) thais can be quite stubborn/strong minded

I don't think the term "up to you" is a good example of being submissive, If a Thai lady says to you "up to you" it typically means whatever decision you make it will be wrong one and you are in trouble irrespective ....

[sustento]

That's what happens when you view a country of 60 million individuals through the lens of a western assumption.

[somchaismith]

If you listen to the fugly western woman, she will say that Thai women are submissive. For example, 'Look at that dirty old man, with his submissive 18-year old!"

[chrisinth]

OP, IMHO a lot of people mistake politeness as being submissive and as such a miscomprehension is reached. As everyone knows, business is not run on politeness or friendship, and, going against popular belief, there are many successful Thai companies here with many employees having the ability to orate what needs to be said.

Why are you so surprised? There are confident people in all countries and all walks of life.

[Evilbaz]

I found it interesting the OP alluding to the sensivity of Americans to criticism back home in the USofA.

Happens here and on many local (Thai) forums.

[ultimate weapon]

It's kind of silly well for OP to equate thai culture to the event he was attending. It's a toastmasters event so they definitely need to get their act up. Does he know of acting up for an event? Oh lord.

There's no reason for hostile language; you can make your point without attacking me. Your post neglects the conversations that happened before and after the meeting, as well as all the dialogues that happened outside of the speeches. The speeches themselves are only a short portion of the meeting.

As I said, most people do not "act" out their speeches. They simply make note of a few topics they want to talk about, and then stand up in front of a group and talk about it. You are overestimating the formality of these events.

Pardon me for "hostility if that was actually hostile to you well i don't know what to make of someone that drew his conclusions based on a toastmasters event and how does speaking in a lively manner denote non submissiveness?

In any case you would like to take note that it's only certain east asian cultures not all mind you but only certain east asian cultures that have that type of submissiveness. Japanese culture comes to mind or rather traditional jap culture. Modern japanese females probably not so. Now do you think koreans/chinese are submissive or rather are the females like that? Korean men are rather brutish to their females so the culture couldn't be said to be submissive could it? Chinese females are less submissive compared to japanese ones. I think it's these farangs that saw one eastern culture like japanese and it has permeated american and western society pretty well and then made the assumption that all eastern cultures are like that.

Actually i find your line of questioning rather curious. If a thai guy say the luggage carrier at the hotel for example seems rather polite and soft spoken that isn't actually submissiveness. Very often many farang make the mistake of being soft spoken as being meek or weak which is kind of stupid "i'm not attacking you btw" because there are many loud mouthed people that can talk a good game but when the proverbial sh!t hits the fan are unable to defend themselves or use actions to validate their words. In short their bark is worse than their bite. One american president also advocated that one did not need to openly display his "strength" through his words or actions. Speak softly but carry a big stick. Now if you just looked at it from a superficial level you would think the polite soft spoken person was submissive when that isn't the case. Needless to say if you saw the opposite that isn't to say they are a dominating culture either. Give you an example. I doubt you would see muslim men behaving like that to women in some muslim country's toastmaster event. Who knows it might be much more sober and a more serious event does this mean this muslim country is submissive when islamic countries always try to force their religion or force more of their religious practices all the time on non believers. Something for you to ponder on.

[brit1984]

this thread would be better if it was more focused on bedroom activities

[somchaismith]

^That's what porn sites are for.

[sdanielmcev]

Only been here for a little while, but definitely agree with the OP. Submissive is not a term I would use for the Thais. Sublime, yes. I think an improper nod could start a war. The GF is constantly telling me how not to act in public.