High Pressure Water Cleaner

[transam]

But the washer body and handles are all plastic, no earth needed. many power tools now are this way and don't use an earth, even here in 21st century land which is where Karchers originate.

How can it be safe without an earth when water is inside the machine traveling down a hose with you hanging on the end. If a leak occurs on the METAL internals to the water and wiring what happens ?

Power tools are double insulated and have nothing to do with internal water................

Edited May 11, 2014 by transam

[IMHO]

But the washer body and handles are all plastic, no earth needed. many power tools now are this way and don't use an earth, even here in 21st century land which is where Karchers originate.

How can it be safe without an earth when water is inside the machine traveling down a hose with you hanging on the end. If a leak occurs on the METAL internals to the water and wiring what happens ?

Power tools are double insulated and have nothing to do with internal water................

+1. It's the fact that water is conductive, and I'm normally standing in a puddle of it when pressure washing, that incentivated me to make the adaptor cable

[transam]

But the washer body and handles are all plastic, no earth needed. many power tools now are this way and don't use an earth, even here in 21st century land which is where Karchers originate.

How can it be safe without an earth when water is inside the machine traveling down a hose with you hanging on the end. If a leak occurs on the METAL internals to the water and wiring what happens ?

Power tools are double insulated and have nothing to do with internal water................

+1. It's the fact that water is conductive, and I'm normally standing in a puddle of it when pressure washing, that incentivated me to make the adaptor cable

Same as home showers, must be earthed in case of internal leak. My home water pump NOW has an earth fixed to the METAL motor casing. Better safe than sorry.

[WarpSpeed]

But the washer body and handles are all plastic, no earth needed. many power tools now are this way and don't use an earth, even here in 21st century land which is where Karchers originate.

How can it be safe without an earth when water is inside the machine traveling down a hose with you hanging on the end. If a leak occurs on the METAL internals to the water and wiring what happens ?

Power tools are double insulated and have nothing to do with internal water................

Short answer, nothing happens, then longer explanation.

Yes clearly the manufacture is far less educated then you and the rest are, German at that. They don't need it because you can't even be shocked by a broken stream of water like a drip, let alone electrocuted, it has to be while in a standing puddle or similar with the unit under several inches as they raise the electrical components high up in the machine and hopefully an operator is not stupid enough to do that, but there in Thailand it's not too likely even with an earth if you did that you would live anyways given the unlikely hood of the safety breakers even blowing. The spray unit you hold and the body of the washer is all double insulated plastic just like power tools and the motor etc. are on plastic supports no metal touches the operator.

[transam]

But the washer body and handles are all plastic, no earth needed. many power tools now are this way and don't use an earth, even here in 21st century land which is where Karchers originate.

How can it be safe without an earth when water is inside the machine traveling down a hose with you hanging on the end. If a leak occurs on the METAL internals to the water and wiring what happens ?

Power tools are double insulated and have nothing to do with internal water................

Short answer, nothing happens, then longer explanation.

Yes clearly the manufacture is far less educated then you and the rest are, German at that. They don't need it because you can't even be shocked by a broken stream of water like a drip, let alone electrocuted, it has to be while in a standing puddle or similar with the unit under several inches as they raise the electrical components high up in the machine and hopefully an operator is not stupid enough to do that, but there in Thailand it's not too likely even with an earth if you did that you would live anyways given the unlikely hood of the safety breakers even blowing. The spray unit you hold and the body of the washer is all double insulated plastic just like power tools and the motor etc. are on plastic supports no metal touches the operator.

............ you carry on warpy.......................Strange how my UK one was earthed 'aint it................

[WarpSpeed]

But the washer body and handles are all plastic, no earth needed. many power tools now are this way and don't use an earth, even here in 21st century land which is where Karchers originate.

How can it be safe without an earth when water is inside the machine traveling down a hose with you hanging on the end. If a leak occurs on the METAL internals to the water and wiring what happens ?

Power tools are double insulated and have nothing to do with internal water................

+1. It's the fact that water is conductive, and I'm normally standing in a puddle of it when pressure washing, that incentivated me to make the adaptor cable

-1 sorry water in this case is not conductive. That is a myth, it needs to be a complete unbroken steam from short contact to the operator and THAT is just not going to happen and it can not carry enough amperage anyway in an amount that small (mere leak size) to do much more then wake you up if it did anything at at all..

[WarpSpeed]

But the washer body and handles are all plastic, no earth needed. many power tools now are this way and don't use an earth, even here in 21st century land which is where Karchers originate.

How can it be safe without an earth when water is inside the machine traveling down a hose with you hanging on the end. If a leak occurs on the METAL internals to the water and wiring what happens ?

Power tools are double insulated and have nothing to do with internal water................

Short answer, nothing happens, then longer explanation.

Yes clearly the manufacture is far less educated then you and the rest are, German at that. They don't need it because you can't even be shocked by a broken stream of water like a drip, let alone electrocuted, it has to be while in a standing puddle or similar with the unit under several inches as they raise the electrical components high up in the machine and hopefully an operator is not stupid enough to do that, but there in Thailand it's not too likely even with an earth if you did that you would live anyways given the unlikely hood of the safety breakers even blowing. The spray unit you hold and the body of the washer is all double insulated plastic just like power tools and the motor etc. are on plastic supports no metal touches the operator.

............ you carry on warpy.......................Strange how my UK one was earthed 'aint it................

You know the Germans are far smarter then any Limey so do some research before spouting off your mouth, that's the end... They still own their car manufacturers, are quite successful at it & many of yours too, know how to do electrical a big failing of British makes so not much credibility there.

[transam]

What on "earth" has car manufacturing got to do with electrocution............. ......................

[WarpSpeed]

What on "earth" has car manufacturing got to do with electrocution............. ......................

Figures you couldn't make the "connection" between the 2.. Point made, it went right over your head.. I'll take pity, here's a clue: Cars don't work without electrical and when it comes to dead shorts and proper wiring it matters not whether it's AC or DC..

Edited May 11, 2014 by WarpSpeed

[transam]

What on "earth" has car manufacturing got to do with electrocution............. ......................

Figures you couldn't make the "connection" between the 2.. Point made, it went right over your head.. I'll take pity, here's a clue: Cars don't work without electrical and when it comes to dead shorts and proper wiring it matters not whether it's AC or DC..

Oh well...............

[Ace of Pop]

The Volt.

[Ace of Pop]

Indeed do some reacherch,and realize how many Geman Companies have Brits as their top Engine R&D Bosses.

[IMHO]

Anyways, the Karcher needs an earth, that's why it's supplied with an earthed plug, and why the owner's manual states only using it on a circuit with a 30mA RCD fitted.

It's possible there are some other brands of pressure washer that don't require an earth. I'm not aware of any though.

Bottom line: look at the plug that's supplied with your appliance - if it looks like this, it was designed to have a functioning earth connection (note the earthing 'hole' for French style sockets, and the earthing strips on the sides for Shcucko style sockets):

If it looks like either of these two, it's a double insulated device, and doesn't need an earth:

or

[topt]

Anyways, the Karcher needs an earth, that's why it's supplied with an earthed plug, and why the owner's manual states only using it on a circuit with a 30mA RCD fitted.

It's possible there are some other brands of pressure washer that don't require an earth. I'm not aware of any though.

Bottom line: look at the plug that's supplied with your appliance - if it looks like this, it was designed to have a functioning earth connection (note the earthing 'hole' for French style sockets, and the earthing strips on the sides for Shcucko style sockets):

If it looks like either of these two, it's a double insulated device, and doesn't need an earth:

or

My Zinsano has a plug similar to the bottom one - only in black.........

So presumably this brand does not need an earth?

Edited May 11, 2014 by topt

[WarpSpeed]

Indeed do some reacherch,and realize how many Geman Companies have Brits as their top Engine R&D Bosses.

Engine............................ Or electrical..

Bottom line they don't NEED an earth they are required to have it in SOME countries for safety reasons of redundancy but they don't NEED them to be safe..It is just easier for the manufacturer to build them for the rules of most countries to meet requirements rather then having different equipment for EVERY country and therefore the plugs being the way they are. This should be some of that "common sense" we've been talking about just like car manufacturers using plenty of parts that cross between models and the like something everyone here should understand but sadly doesn't. With one exception, most of those plugs also work for most European countries but won't work for ours.

Edited May 11, 2014 by WarpSpeed

[IMHO]

Anyways, the Karcher needs an earth, that's why it's supplied with an earthed plug, and why the owner's manual states only using it on a circuit with a 30mA RCD fitted.

It's possible there are some other brands of pressure washer that don't require an earth. I'm not aware of any though.

Bottom line: look at the plug that's supplied with your appliance - if it looks like this, it was designed to have a functioning earth connection (note the earthing 'hole' for French style sockets, and the earthing strips on the sides for Shcucko style sockets):

If it looks like either of these two, it's a double insulated device, and doesn't need an earth:

or

My Zinsano has a plug similar to the bottom one - only in black.........

So presumably this brand does not need an earth?

if you don't have metal strips on the side of the plug and/or a metal hole on the pin side, then yes, it's not an earthed appliance - go ahead and just plug it into a regular Thai socket.

[funcat]

Hmm...that's interesting...Thailand is the only country (that I know,at least),that it seems the 'earth' is not necessary....'my' house is (only) 15 years new and the only 'earth' it's got is to the new appliances,that I've installed...I still get an occasional 'zippp' from my PC,if I touch the body....and need to put rubber slippers to adjust the volume on the home entertainment unit...and,of course,no EFI's in bathrooms...

[IMHO]

Hmm...that's interesting...Thailand is the only country (that I know,at least),that it seems the 'earth' is not necessary....'my' house is (only) 15 years new and the only 'earth' it's got is to the new appliances,that I've installed...I still get an occasional 'zippp' from my PC,if I touch the body....and need to put rubber slippers to adjust the volume on the home entertainment unit...and,of course,no EFI's in bathrooms...

There are regional regulations - in the past an earth was not required, but increasingly more PEA/MEA's do want to see and test an Earth and an RCD in new constructions. For your own safety, you should upgrade to earthed sockets and an RCD, whether required by local rules or not, of course

[IMHO]

Bottom line they don't NEED an earth they are required to have it in SOME countries for safety reasons of redundancy but they don't NEED them to be safe..It is just easier for the manufacturer to build them for the rules of most countries to meet requirements rather then having different equipment for EVERY country and therefore the plugs being the way they are. This should be some of that "common sense" we've been talking about just like car manufacturers using plenty of parts that cross between models and the like something everyone here should understand but sadly doesn't. With one exception, most of those plugs also work for most European countries but won't work for ours.

I'm sorry, but that's dangerous advice. For all you or I know, the pressure washer in question could use a metal impeller, connected to a metal shaft, that could easily be shorted to active... from there all it needs to do is find a path to you...

I've had a jolt from the active line of 220V, and even with a 30mA RCD that tripped, my shoulder is still permanently damaged.

Been there, got the T-shirt, as they say (but taking a t-shirt off hurts a lot now).

Edited May 12, 2014 by IMHO

[VocalNeal]

if you don't have metal strips on the side of the plug and/or a metal hole on the pin side, then yes, it's not an earthed appliance - go ahead and just plug it into a regular Thai socket.

Why does a plastic appliance or power tool need an earth. If the operator does not come into contact with any metal parts during the operation of the tool or appliance why does it need one?

Water? Well I assume everyone reading this will have grounded their water meter or at the very least inserted a bronze fitting somewhere in their blue PVC piping and grounded that?

Edited May 12, 2014 by VocalNeal

[IMHO]

if you don't have metal strips on the side of the plug and/or a metal hole on the pin side, then yes, it's not an earthed appliance - go ahead and just plug it into a regular Thai socket.

Why does a plastic appliance or power tool need an earth. If the operator does not come into contact with any metal parts during the operation of the tool or appliance why does it need one?

Water? Well I assume everyone reading this will have grounded their water meter or at the very least inserted a bronze fitting somewhere in their blue PVC piping and grounded that?

None of my power tools have earthed plugs, but plenty of other electrical appliances I have do...

From my POV it's pretty simple - if the manufacturer supplied the device with an earthed plug, it's best to assume it needs an earth, no?

.... what an illogical conversation this has changed into...

Edited May 12, 2014 by IMHO

[rayinkrabi]

Errr, I seem to opened up a hornets here and am almost regretting my post re the 3 pin plug. I was simply trying to pass on my humble opinions based on experience to the OP as requested.

It was simply my opinion and it's clear there are many here who know much more than I do about electricity. I'm curious tho as I noted (when I bought mine in Homepro) that some of the Zinzano washers only had 2 pin plugs and others had a 3 pin attached? I also saw this some time ago with samsung washing machines. In both cases the things all looked similar but just different sizes / capacity.

One final thought from me then I'm off 'cos I think this is straying too far from the OP's question. What is the problem with fitting a 3 pin plug to an appliance anyway? they only cost a few baht, can it really invalidate a warranty?

Ah well, good luck to Robert (the OP) whatever you decide.

[IMHO]

Errr, I seem to opened up a hornets here and am almost regretting my post re the 3 pin plug. I was simply trying to pass on my humble opinions based on experience to the OP as requested.

It was simply my opinion and it's clear there are many here who know much more than I do about electricity. I'm curious tho as I noted (when I bought mine in Homepro) that some of the Zinzano washers only had 2 pin plugs and others had a 3 pin attached? I also saw this some time ago with samsung washing machines. In both cases the things all looked similar but just different sizes / capacity.

One final thought from me then I'm off 'cos I think this is straying too far from the OP's question. What is the problem with fitting a 3 pin plug to an appliance anyway? they only cost a few baht, can it really invalidate a warranty?

Ah well, good luck to Robert (the OP) whatever you decide.

Possibly because some use plastic pump parts, and some use metal pump parts? only guessing. Trust the manufacturer I say.

[Ace of Pop]

Just buy a Pair of Wellies and enjoy yourself, shake hands with a Neighbour,and test the Earthing.

[Jitar]

I believe the small pressure cleaners for home us are 110 -120V in the US and have internal residual current devices. I dunno for sure but maybe that avoids the legal requirement for an earth in the US.

Most other places require an earth for appliances with exposure to water because whenever there is electricity and water in close proximity there is a risk, particularly if extension cords and plugs are in the wet area. Neither RCDs or earths are perfect. We have had safety reports at work about shocks from pressure washers in different countries with either system. Just curious but do any of the pressure washers sold in LOS with 2 pin plugs have a separate earth wire, like water coolers etc?

The bigger industrial pressure washers use 3 phase power (with an earth) and are 10x the pressure and flow of the home units. These are probably the ones TA's mate warned about. They will flatten heat exchanger fins, strip of paint and destroy electrical harness plugs etc unless they are used very carefully.

Edited May 12, 2014 by Jitar

[funcat]

Hmm...that's interesting...Thailand is the only country (that I know,at least),that it seems the 'earth' is not necessary....'my' house is (only) 15 years new and the only 'earth' it's got is to the new appliances,that I've installed...I still get an occasional 'zippp' from my PC,if I touch the body....and need to put rubber slippers to adjust the volume on the home entertainment unit...and,of course,no EFI's in bathrooms...

There are regional regulations - in the past an earth was not required, but increasingly more PEA/MEA's do want to see and test an Earth and an RCD in new constructions. For your own safety, you should upgrade to earthed sockets and an RCD, whether required by local rules or not, of course

Yes and agreed....and the new house I'm building will all have the up to 'code' electrical installations...

[transam]

I believe the small pressure cleaners for home us are 110 -120V in the US and have internal residual current devices. I dunno for sure but maybe that avoids the legal requirement for an earth in the US.

Most other places require an earth for appliances with exposure to water because whenever there is electricity and water in close proximity there is a risk, particularly if extension cords and plugs are in the wet area. Neither RCDs or earths are perfect. We have had safety reports at work about shocks from pressure washers in different countries with either system. Just curious but do any of the pressure washers sold in LOS with 2 pin plugs have a separate earth wire, like water coolers etc?

The bigger industrial pressure washers use 3 phase power (with an earth) and are 10x the pressure and flow of the home units. These are probably the ones TA's mate warned about. They will flatten heat exchanger fins, strip of paint and destroy electrical harness plugs etc unless they are used very carefully.

Bought a Samsung washing machine about 7 years ago, had a 2 pin plug, they delivered it, banged a nail in the floor and wrapped a bit of wire around it and fixed the other end to a rear casing screw. Now why did they do that when the manufacturer "thought" there was no need for an earth ? Most places have no earthed 3 pin outlets, hence the 2 pin plugs on most stuff.

My thoughts are that someone was electrocuted using one or another type of washing machine.

Warpy has given you dangerous information, if ANY country fits an earth wire to anything it means there could be risk to life, period .

If LOS doesn't, don't automatically think it's OK, cos it's not. Water & Electricity can or will cause your demise IF a problem occurs between the two.

[Jitar]

There a many good things about LOS but electrical standards are not one of them. Power boards are sold here with 3 pin sockets and 2 pin plugs, like the Chinese version in the picture. Sadly these are too convenient for appliances with pesky 3 pin plugs (pressure washer, water heater/cooler, washing machine etc) and the old standard 2 pin wall socket.

Edited May 12, 2014 by Jitar

[transam]

There a many good things about LOS but electrical standards are not one of them. Power boards are sold here with 3 pin sockets and 2 pin plugs, like the Chinese version in the picture. Sadly these are too convenient for appliances with pesky 3 pin plugs (pressure washer, water heater/cooler, washing machine etc) and the old standard 2 pin wall socket.

I have a couple of those that actually have a 3 pin plugs....... ..........Tesco's I think...........

[VocalNeal]

From my POV it's pretty simple - if the manufacturer supplied the device with an earthed plug, it's best to assume it needs an earth, no?

Just curious stick your head under the stairs or wherever your water pump is. It only has a 2 pin plug so no earth required? But curled up near the motor is a short length of green/yellow wire. Is yours connected?

.... what an illogical conversation this has changed into...

Well it is all the grounding missionaries. Just another thing that is wrong with Thailand. I'm surprised anyone live here.

Just buy a Pair of Wellies and enjoy yourself, shake hands with a Neighbour,and test the Earthing.

Edited May 12, 2014 by VocalNeal