US Paypal -> Bangkok Bank vs. NY Branch ACH fees ?

[koolbreez]

In the OP, and concerning Bangkok Bank, depositing through the NY exchange, you are all missing one very important factor to reduce fees. You must open a FCD (foreign currency deposit) account with Bangkok Bank, and a personal account. It costs more initial deposit (in the actual foreign currency you want to open the account in) to open the FCD account, $1000 in American dollars for an American dollar account, and there is a minimum balance requirement $250 (drop below this and there is a $10 monthly fee), but it saves all these currency exchange fees PayPal, or any other bank charges trying to send Thai baht when you use American dollars initially. Not all Bangkok Bank branches will set up an FCD, only the main branch in any area.

In my case I transfer American dollars into my Bangkok Bank FCD, with a charge of $5, or $10 transfer fee from the NY branch, and a bt200 minimum charge by my Thai branch, then when I want to withdraw Thai baht, I convert it in-bank online and transfer it to my personal account, with the current, up to the minute, TT exchange rate. Currently it is costing me $10.56 to get $1000, and Friday's exchange rate was bt35.97 to the dollar. The only other restriction is you can only do FCD transactions during regular business hours of the Thai bank.

When you send American dollars to your Bangkok Bank FCD account through the NY branch from PayPal, make a withdrawal from PayPal, there is no charge on PayPal's end.

Once you get your money into your FCD at Bangkok Bank, then you can change some into Thai baht and transfer it to any other bank account, at any other bank in Thailand for a bt50 fee. This is conciderably cheaper than WU, or Moneygram, costing only about $11 for $1000 transfer from the USA through Bangkok Bank with a FCD account.

With internet banking, everything can be done online once the account is set up, except, through the cell phone app you do not have access to your FCD, only your personnal account. You can only access your FCD account from a regular computer.

Bangkok Bank now uses the chip embedded ATM smart card, so at present it can only be used at Bangkok Bank ATM machines, as they are the only bank that has this feature in all their ATM machines.

[Pib]

You do not save any transfer fees by opening a FCD account and a Thai baht account. Why?

- Because when transfer funds to your FCD "or" Thai baht account via the Bangkok Bank NY branch routing number you are still charged the same NY branch fees--no savings there.

- When the funds arrive your FCD or Thai baht account you are still charged the 0.25% (Bt200 min, Bt500 max) electronic transfer receiving fee---no savings there.

- if sending the funds directly to your Thai baht account you get the TT Buying Rate, and if you first sent the funds to your FCD and then one day decide to exchange some to your Thai baht account you get the TT Buying Rate--no savings there.

Now what you do have with a FCD is the other associated account maintenance fees, some of which you spelled out. And you also have the capability to exchange your foreign currency to Thai baht at the drop of a hat instead of waiting usually a couple business days for a transfer you initiate to arrive your Thai baht account. But hey, exchange rates are always changing, going up, going down, when that transfer you initiated arrives a few business days later maybe the exchange rate went up...probably a 50-50 change it went up compared to going down. IMO if you are using a FCD purely for exchange rate reasons you are not gaining any benefits/savings any fees.

You can still get the Bangkok Bank debit card in the magnetic strip (Be1st card) or chip format (Be1st Smart card). I got another Be1st magnetic strip card just last week because a Bangkok Bank ATM ate my Be1st card. First time ever in my long life any ATM has eaten any card, Thai or foreign card, I have. First time for everything I guess. I was using the card in a Bangkok Bank ATM right outside a Foodland's front doors...an ATM I've used many times over the years....I asked for Bt14,500, every screen displayed occurred as normal right up until I pushed the Continue button which would then spit out the cash. At that point a screen displayed for about 1 second, "Card Suspended, Card Retained." Well, crap! I wait a few minutes to see if the card might pop out...it didn't. I also watched two more folks pull up to the ATM over the next 5 minutes or so, insert there card, and get cash.

So, I logged onto my Bangkok Bank ibanking and transferred almost all of the funds out of my account with the now eaten debit card into another Bangkok Bank account without any debit card linkage--this account is where I keep most of my day-to-day Thailand living money....this account can only be accessed for money via ibanking or personal visit to a branch. OK, money with debit card linkage now safely tucked away in another account. I then go to the branch that I have my accounts with, the main branch on Silom Rd in the HQ Bangkok Bank building, tell them what happened and they issue me a replacement card with new number free of charge. Before issuing the card they showed a card menu with the 3 debit cards they offer which were the Be1st Smart Card, Be1st Card, and I think the Be1st Rabbit Card. I pointed to the Be1st Card as I wanted the capability to use any ATM in Thailand because I all to often run into Bangkok Bank ATMs are are no operating/out of cash...with the Be1st card I just use another bank's ATM which is usually right next to the Bangkok Bank ATM the way ATMs seemed to be grouped together in some many places.

Yea, I know a chipped card is safe from skimming but until other Thai banks convert their ATMs to being able to accept Bangkok Bank chipped ATMs card I'll continue to use their magnetic strip only card and continue to maintain a relatively low amount in the account linked to the card and top that account up as needed from my other account without an ATM card issued/linked using ibanking.

I did ask the Bangkok Bank representative why my card was "Card Suspended, Card Retained" (i.e., eaten by the ATM), and he just said probably something "broke on the card." I have used the replacement card several times and all is well again until my next Thai banking challenge (frustration) pops up its ugly head, but fortunately I've had few such ugly heads pop-up over the years....knock on wood (my head).

[chubby]

can i get ibanking with an O-A visa? if I open a 2nd account? what kind of account is advisable from BBL besides the one I have now

I believe I have a savings account of some sort

"So, I logged onto my Bangkok Bank ibanking and transferred almost all of the funds out of my account with the now eaten debit card into another Bangkok Bank account"

[Pib]

Yes you can get ibanking with an O-A. I do. Be sure they clearly understand you have the long stay O-A visa...and be sure they have you coded as a resident vs tourist to ensure you earn interest on the account...if coded as tourist/non-resident you don't earn interest. Opening a 2nd savings account is up to you. And as always, each branch varies in how farang friendly they are.

I have three Bangkok Bank accounts on my O-A/retirement extension of stay...normally have four but I didn't roll over my fixed savings account which matured and I closed it...they didn't have a high enough interest paying fixed savings account which interested me enough to roll it over. I just moved most of the money to my Krungsri Mee Tai Dai account which pays the same as most fixed accounts right now and I can still access the money at any time without interest penalty....comes with debit card and ibanking also

I have two Bangkok Bank regular savings accounts...one with debit card, one without debit card, and a direct deposit account I used briefly years back and just kept it open in case I need to use it again. I keep the bulk of my day-to-day living money in the account without debit card (don't have to worry about having a debit card skimmed and my account emptied) and transfer funds via ibanking as needed to top-up the account with has the debit card.

[chubby]

i have an account now, i open some 4-5 years ago, while on a tourist visa, i don't know how they coded it, at the time.

but, i believe it does earn some interest based on my bank book, i see 1 interest payment for all of last year , is that right?

i could go and open a new account on my new O-A , this is my first visit with an O-A, and make it have no debit card. and make both accessable via ibanking.

as long as they aren't going to hassle me, about the new US rules for opening accounts ?

i use lower sukhumwit as my main branch, haven't had any issues.

i guess only downside is the maintainence fees on 2 accounts instead of one

but your ATM story, was a useful anecdote for a 2nd account , thanks

Yes you can get ibanking with an O-A. I do. Be sure they clearly understand you have the long stay O-A visa...and be sure they have you coded as a resident vs tourist to ensure you earn interest on the account...if coded as tourist/non-resident you don't earn interest. Opening a 2nd savings account is up to you. And as always, each branch varies in how farang friendly they are.

I have three Bangkok Bank accounts on my O-A/retirement extension of stay...normally have four but I didn't roll over my fixed savings account which matured and I closed it...they didn't have a high enough interest paying fixed savings account which interested me enough to roll it over. I just moved most of the money to my Krungsri Mee Tai Dai account which pays the same as most fixed accounts right now and I can still access the money at any time without interest penalty....comes with debit card and ibanking also

I have two Bangkok Bank regular savings accounts...one with debit card, one without debit card, and a direct deposit account I used briefly years back and just kept it open in case I need to use it again. I keep the bulk of my day-to-day living money in the account without debit card (don't have to worry about having a debit card skimmed and my account emptied) and transfer funds via ibanking as needed to top-up the account with has the debit card.

[Pib]

Bangkok Bank interest payments on regular savings accounts are typical twice year...in Jun and Dec...or at least on my Bangkok Bank accounts that is always the way it has occurred. Since you got an interest payment you must be coded OK....maybe they have you coded for once a year interest payment "If" they do it that way also vs just twice a year.

If you open a 2nd savings account with no debit card there will be no account maintenance fees as long as you don't let it drop below Bt2,000 "and" don't have any user transactions for 12 months. Must meet both the criteria to occur. When an account has dropped below Bt2,000 "and" has shown no user activity such as a deposit/withdrawal/transfer via in-person, ATM, or ibanking for 12 months they figure the person may have forgot about the account, died, moved away, etc.

The account can be below Bt2,000, even zero baht, without concern as long as there is some user-initiated activity over the last 12 months. An interest payment is not user activity as that is bank initiated activity so it don't count activity-wise. You will get a notice in the mail making you aware that they will start charging a Bt50/month maintenance fee until the account reaches zero balance then it will be closed. That happened to me once for a direct deposit account I opened with them years ago and briefly used but after stopping the govt pension direct deposit I left it open with less than Bt2,000 in it. Got the notice, made an ibanking transfer "into" the account....they are now happy again....I just need to remember to do one user transaction per year if I keep the account balance below Bt2,000...or just keep the account balance at Bt2,001 and not worry about having to do any account activity.

If you don't get a debit card with the account there will be no monthly/annual fee applied against the account. There are no other maintenance fees other than the one above if you let the account go inactive.

No issue in Americans opening new accounts at Bangkok Bank because of FATCA requirement going into effect 1 Jul 14....the only thing extra that occurs is your will complete & sign a short questionnaire confirming or not whether you are an American person and if so will then complete the W9 IRS form where you put you address and social security number---a W9 form you have no doubt filled out before during your work & tax filing life in the U.S. I've opened two Bangkok Bank accounts since FATCA went into affect (also one at Krungsri bank)...opened no problem...just those two additional forms to complete which take about 5 minutes. Now I've heard some branches may also want to copy your social security card to ensure you are not putting a bogus social security number on the W9 form...but for my account opening they never asked to see my card which I have if they would ever ask.

And don't assume just because you already have an account with a bank that makes opening a second account will be a piece of cake. Many branches will treat that second account opening just as if you are a brand new customer and they will require you to meet all the necessary account opening requirements the branch has. Hopefully it's a farang friendly branch as you already know if varies from branch to branch even within the same bank company as to how hard or easy it is for a farang to open an account regardless of nationality. Good luck.

[chubby]

ok, and the ibanking setup, is straightforward?

fwiw, I think it is W4s and W2s re: SSNs at work , etc

[Pib]

Yes....straightforward. No....W9 form regarding taxpayer certification of social security number.

[chubby]

oh that must be the one, when you are offered a job .......

[Bobsuruncle]

Pib,

Just a quick note to say thank you again for all your good information.

Yesterday I went to the main branch of Bangkok Bank in Nakhon Phanom which is about 55 kms from where I live but was able to find a clerk there that knew how to do the over the counter credit card cash advance. I used my PenFed Defender Visa and only took out 30,000 baht to test the process. It went very smoothly on the second try of the card reader. (the first try said it was declined, but I asked her to try it again). Not sure why it was originally declined but it was great to see the paper printing out of the card reader saying that the card was good after all.

There was no fee, just like you had said. All the smaller bank branches that I have been to in the surrounding area wanted to charge me a 3% fee.

I then went home and paid off the 30,000 baht @ $828.42 which actually turned out to be 9 points better than the TT exchange rate of the day. (36.21 as opposed to 36.12 baht) You had said that it depends on the day, sometimes the TT rate is better and sometimes the Visa rate is better. I had checked both rates in the morning before going to Nakhon Phanom and was hoping that the rates would hold at the higher Visa rates and they did.

So I'm one happy camper at the moment. I was able to pull money from my account in America at no cost at all! No fees from my bank there and no fees from the Thai bank ------- $0.

So thank you, thank you, thank you!!!!!!!!!

Cheers,

Richard

[Pib]

Richard,

I'm glad it worked out, but since I'm too lazy to look back through this getting-kinda-long-thread regarding "payment of the PF cash advance" to see if I've talked it, I'll give you something to watch out for regarding the payment.

If the payment you made was an "internal" PenFed (PF) money market/shares to PF credit card payment and the payment "exceeded" the balance on your card balance, the payment will not actually occur...will not be applied to your credit card account. Yes, if you look in your PF transfer/payment history it will show the transfer/payment as processed but the payment will not actually occur (won't be applied to your credit card account) nor the funds be transferred from your internal account because you tried to pay more than the card balance.

You can then call PF to discuss the issue...I had to twice in uncovering this apparent devil in the payment details so to speak. I had been paying in advance for almost a year with no problem but in Jan 15 they tweaked their payment system to not allow an internal payment to exceed the card balance. First rep I talked to seemed as surprised as I was that the internal payment didn't actually complete even through the history files indicated it did although no deduction from my money market account or payment to my card account actually occurred. Basically, the very last internal step of the PF credit card dept accepting the payment from the banking dept would not process and there was no feedback that the payment didn't actually process other than you noticing a payment never reduced/paid your card balance...and if you failed to look at your card balance until the monthly statement came out then you may have a cash advance interest surprise.

Since the cash advance was now posted the rep initiated another payment while we where on the phone and said she would then send an email to the credit card dept to waiver the interest....this all occurred and after a few business days it was fixed...payment made...no interest charge. OK, I too thought this was just a payment glitch, but in about 6 weeks when I did another cash advance, did the internal payment before the cash advance posted, once again the same problem occurred...no actual payment. Once again I called PF...got a different rep this time who knew the issue of not being able to process an internal payment greater than the card balance. Once again the rep fixed the issue a little different way, no interest charges, and said just don't try to make a payment that exceeds your card balance.

You use to be able to pay more than the card balance/put a credit on your account up until Jan 15 when they made some changes to their payment system. So, this ends up causing you to incur a X-days of cash advance interest payment until you notice the payment didn't actually process and redo a payment which does not exceed the total card balance. But since there no cash advance fee and since the interest is so low I expect a Bt30K a would only incur about 25 cents a day in interest fees.

However, but, there is a way around this payment limitation imposed on "internal" PF transfers/payments to your cards. Just force a "external" payment from another one of your banks. It has to be done through Bill Payment at your other bank since you can't use a funds transfer function meant for funds transfer from one bank account to another bank account....it has to be a bill payment.

So, what I do to ensure I incur no interest at all, I set up a Bill Payment link in my USAA bank account (only took a few seconds) to pay my PF credit card bill....you don't have to wait for a bill to show up....you just initiate a payment any time. For an "external" initiated bill payment you can exceed the balance due on your card balance....apparently PF can not reject such incoming payments...they have to process it which can put a credit on your card account I've been doing this by forcing around a $2,000 bill payment a day or two before I plan to do a cash advance...been doing this way for around a year now...probably around 6 to 10 cash advances since Jan 15....that way the payment arrives before or same day the cash advance occurs....no interest charged...even for one day as the cash advance is paid off the second it posts. Sometimes send a payment a week or more before I get around to doing the cash advance.

Now this process ends up leaving a few dollars of credit on my account since I want to get close to doing a cash advance equaling $2,000 in baht (say to around $30 close) but I don't want to exceed $2,000 since the transaction would then reject as "over limit." So, I just burn off those few dollars by making some purchases allowing PenFed to earn some interchange fees on purchases.

Cheers,

Pib

P.S. Here's the daily PenFed credit card cash advance limits per email from PenFed when I asked...I asked two times over several months and got the same answer each time.

Members are allowed a total of 3 cash advance authorizations per day, not to exceed each method's daily limit. The maximum cash advance amount per day for all methods combined is $5,000.

Members may advance up to $5,000 into a checking, share, or Money Market Savings Account.

A member may do a cash advance withdraw up to $1,000 per day from a ATM.

A member may withdraw up to $2,000 per day from a financial institution.

D.P.S. If doing a significant amount of purchases with your PF card keep in mind you have two balance on your PF credit card...a purchase balance and cash advance balance. These balances are treated differently. Say you did a cash advance for $1,000, also already had $1,000 in purchases that billing month, and just make a $1,000 prepayment you thought would go entirely towards the cash advance you would be wrong...that payment would be split between the $1,000 cash advance and the $1,000 in purchase leaving you with $500 cash advance balance and $500 purchase balance. This means the cash advance is still not fully paid off and still racking up interest. So, be sure to pay off the "entire" card balance (cash advance and purchases) with your prepayment if you want to avoid any interest charges. Personally, I got two PF cards...one I use primarily for cash advances and the other one for almost all my purchases since it pays 1.5% cash back...prepay the card I use for the cash advances and pay off in full monthly the other card used for purchases since you have the purchases 25 day interest fee grace period. Once figuring out the devil in the details/fine print on these cards, which I think I've done, a person can use them to their maximum benefit to you, the customer.

[Bobsuruncle]

Yes Pib you warned me about the above previously and as of yet I haven't set up a "bill pay" from another account. I have a "push/pull" from another bank into PenFed but you also warned me about that not being the same as the "bill pay".

I guess I've just been lazy about setting this up but will get on it now.

In the mean time I covered my butt by calling PenFed as soon as they open (the evening in Thailand of the transaction) and telling them that I want to pay off my cash advance that was initiated that morning. (I make sure not to do the cash advance before noon in Thailand and have recently gone to waiting until 1:30 pm just to be on the safe side. This way the transaction shows up the same day as opposed to late at night the night before. All previous cash advances had to be with ATM machines (as I hadn't found a Thai bank yet that could do the over the counter transaction until yesterday) and I got burned one time with interest when I pulled money out at 11:55 am Thai time which PenFed then posted as 11:55 pm the night before so the payment was one day later. Small interest but I learned that timing is important.

As I'm on the phone talking to the rep and logged in to my account, I can see immediately when they credit my account as the numbers change on both my visa and my access america account which I pay from.

The bill pay sounds like a much better way to take care of the payment especially if I'm travelling and don't want to take a chance of logging on to my PenFed account in a hotel where the internet security isn't the best. I could do a bill pay ahead of time when I'm in a secure location and not worry about it later. I also wouldn't be concerned about what time of day I'm doing the transaction if bill pay had already set money in my account.

Thanks again,

Cheers,

Richard