Coup d'etat not the answer to conflict: Army chief

[issanaus]

Good post, thanks

One of the best ways to judge a leader is how they leave power

Head up, with dignity and without fear - so far this is the way that the general is heading,

This can not be said other leaders that we see at the moment - its as much fear of what will happen to them when they leave as keeping their noses in the trough,

The one leader that is trained for war is talking peace - all the others are talking war or actions that are likely to lead to war

And a good post by you, and I mean that. But it's opinion and I happen to have a spanner here so I'll toss it in.

What if? Please consider this possibility. What if Gen Prayuth is doing everything he's doing for the one, sole, only reason that he is desperate to exit in September "with dignity and without fear" that events will come back to bite him very hard? What if he is *afraid" to be like General Sondhi, leader of the 2006 coup, who is reviled by half the country and honoured by no one at all? What if the only motive that Prayuth has is to avoid being another General Suchinda, who masterminded the coup before that, who is remembered by exactly no one for saving the country from the "most corrupt government in history", as he claimed, but for Black September?

What if Prayuth is basing every action - and of course every NON-action - on personal, selfish motives that have nothing at all to do with the fate of the country but only to do with what he believes is the legacy of Prayuth? After all, what he has ACTUALLY done is speak while refusing to act, threatening without ever carrying through.

If he is this man of peace you say he is, why is he always holding out the threat of a coup, stating forthrightly he will NEVER obey the law, but only do what is in the army's interest. So. After all, the threat of a coup is illegal under the law, just as a coup is completely illegal.

So what if the army's interest is not the national interest, but only Prayuth's interest? What if Prayuth is the most single selfish stakeholder in the entire range of powerholders?

Have you considered this?

The thing is that if there is a coup, there will be deaths. I mean, there are already deaths that reflect on Yingluck and Suthep, but not on the army. But every death after a coup will go on Gen Prayuth's record. What if he is deathly afraid and cowardly about that, and fears it so much that he will continue to threaten, intimidate and talk big until Sept 30, so that the retired Gen Prayuth will never be remembered for killing Thais?

Do you think that's possible? Why are you absolutely certain of Prayuth's honour as opposed to his personal selfishness?

.

Fair question and one that I have asked my self

I judge him against the oath that he undertook and examination of his actions against that oath

I judge his against the constitution and what that said and implies that he should do

A coup is illegal in the context of the charter and is not something that I believe is in the best interests of the Kingdom or country. What is has never said that he would not do is to declare Martial law if the situation became bad enough. If he had taken this action earlier or even as the situation stands then there would have been a real concern in the community that he was undertaking a coup. If the "leaders" refuse to talk and push it to the point of civil war then regardless of what one group or another may say most Thai people will understand and support his actions. If the situation becomes bad enough I believe that it would be both lawful and within the functions of the charter for him to do so.

One of the things that he might be is the smartest leader in the country. At the start of the current conflict (post amnesty bill) there were those who wanted him to take control. With every act of violence there are more that come to that point of view. I suspect that the general is probably the best informed person in Thailand about the current situation and the player involved. Of course one of the hardest players to work out is the general himself and where his line in the sand is - he is defiantly the best informed about that, 55. There is also the politics within the army - the army is made up of people so opinions differ. I suspect that most with the power to do anything will maintain discipline because solider understand what the effects of breach of discipline are on themselves and on the Army. Just as the civilian population reaction would change over time and the situation when any action was undertaken so would the military and see the extremes for what they are.

I think that anyone who tries to use the Army to halt an election will be disappointed.

I think that the quickest route from her to an election would be for PTP to negotiate a smooth transfer of power to a senate appointed caretaker government. In this way they would be in a position to influence (not dictate)the composition of the caretaker government. I do not think that the senate would be stupid enough to install a PRCD chosen caretaker - because that would increase the chance of a civil war.

[ezzra]

Yes, he's correct, it's not the answer, but it is a part and parcel of life and politics in Thailand,

otherwise how do you explain the 19 coup that already happened here...??

[chooka]

"conflict between the two major political camps"

There is the PTP, who is the other political camp? The PDRC are just a group of street thugs lead by a lunatic and a Mad Monk .

[Ricardo]

Good post, thanks

One of the best ways to judge a leader is how they leave power

Head up, with dignity and without fear - so far this is the way that the general is heading,

This can not be said other leaders that we see at the moment - its as much fear of what will happen to them when they leave as keeping their noses in the trough,

The one leader that is trained for war is talking peace - all the others are talking war or actions that are likely to lead to war

And a good post by you, and I mean that. But it's opinion and I happen to have a spanner here so I'll toss it in.

What if? Please consider this possibility. What if Gen Prayuth is doing everything he's doing for the one, sole, only reason that he is desperate to exit in September "with dignity and without fear" that events will come back to bite him very hard? What if he is *afraid" to be like General Sondhi, leader of the 2006 coup, who is reviled by half the country and honoured by no one at all? What if the only motive that Prayuth has is to avoid being another General Suchinda, who masterminded the coup before that, who is remembered by exactly no one for saving the country from the "most corrupt government in history", as he claimed, but for Black September?

What if Prayuth is basing every action - and of course every NON-action - on personal, selfish motives that have nothing at all to do with the fate of the country but only to do with what he believes is the legacy of Prayuth? After all, what he has ACTUALLY done is speak while refusing to act, threatening without ever carrying through.

If he is this man of peace you say he is, why is he always holding out the threat of a coup, stating forthrightly he will NEVER obey the law, but only do what is in the army's interest. So. After all, the threat of a coup is illegal under the law, just as a coup is completely illegal.

So what if the army's interest is not the national interest, but only Prayuth's interest? What if Prayuth is the most single selfish stakeholder in the entire range of powerholders?

Have you considered this?

The thing is that if there is a coup, there will be deaths. I mean, there are already deaths that reflect on Yingluck and Suthep, but not on the army. But every death after a coup will go on Gen Prayuth's record. What if he is deathly afraid and cowardly about that, and fears it so much that he will continue to threaten, intimidate and talk big until Sept 30, so that the retired Gen Prayuth will never be remembered for killing Thais?

Do you think that's possible? Why are you absolutely certain of Prayuth's honour as opposed to his personal selfishness?

.

Whether his motivation is personal as suggested, or the national-interest, if it disinclines him to lead a coup then the result is a good thing !

It's a step in the right direction, when the military no longer regard coups, as a normal frequent event in Thai political-life !

[smedly]

That is the first time I've read a statement from the General that would lead me to believe a coup is now pending

The interesting thing about coups in Thailand is that it is never what we perceive through history of a military dictator seeking power - it is always when civil unrest becomes so bad through political instability and rival factions usually at the hands of massive corruption by the government that they step in and put an end to the nonsense and soon after give the power back to the people by establishing a government and having elections - I have often said that coup as the bad word that most of us associate is actually not the correct word for it

If you look at who the army is ultimately loyal too (not going to mention it) then I'd be incline to drop the coup word and replace it with something beginning with R---- Intervention, that's how I see it, General Prayuth is not a military dictator seeking power

[winstonc]

"conflict between the two major political camps"

There is the PTP, who is the other political camp? The PDRC are just a group of street thugs lead by a lunatic and a Mad Monk .

wrong again...tut tut.my wife is a lot of things but street thug..shes with hundreds of dhamma people protesting against corruption..remember there are not just one group of people several chooks my lad..why do people have worries about reform ......its time to re-write this country mate..

[wandasloan]

"conflict between the two major political camps"

There is the PTP, who is the other political camp? The PDRC are just a group of street thugs lead by a lunatic and a Mad Monk .

wrong again...tut tut.my wife is a lot of things but street thug..shes with hundreds of dhamma people protesting against corruption..remember there are not just one group of people several chooks my lad..why do people have worries about reform ......its time to re-write this country mate..

Yes. YES! Thank you.

I disagree PROFOUNDLY with everything you wrote after "people several".

But I want to sign on and fully support your excellent post for directly opposing and standing up to those who try to dehumanise those on the other side including the "street thugs" and the "red buffaloes", the "i ngo" and the "paid demonstrators" and all of that. I agree about your wife, her friends and most of the people yellow and red and other colours. Let us save "thugs" and such words for those who deserve them, instead of trying to dehumanise and demonise your wife and a couple of million active people just like her.

I'd just add that the Thais now use "mob" to describe all these groups, without the pejorative sense that the English word has. I always like that when someone co-opts hate-words for themselves like the "queers" have done or the "ladyboys" have done and many others. Good for them.

And good luck to your wife, may she find what she wants, and good for her for actively seeking it.

.

[mikemac]

"conflict between the two major political camps"

There is the PTP, who is the other political camp? The PDRC are just a group of street thugs lead by a lunatic and a Mad Monk .

And this is from the guy who said he was neither a red fan or a yellow fan, or something along those lines. Well you could have fooled me mate. No credibility, nil, zilch, zero.

[chooka]

"conflict between the two major political camps"

There is the PTP, who is the other political camp? The PDRC are just a group of street thugs lead by a lunatic and a Mad Monk .

And this is from the guy who said he was neither a red fan or a yellow fan, or something along those lines. Well you could have fooled me mate. No credibility, nil, zilch, zero.

I was simply asking a question as to who is the other political side as the PDRC are not a party. If that qualifies me a dirty red then so be it. Personally I think the reds are slime and filth and the PDRC as equally of the same excrement. Just because I am not gobbling Sutheps appendix like a lot of others on here are lining up to do doesn't mean I am red. Blow the reds/yellows and the PDRC off the planet and start afresh.

[Baerboxer]

Why wouldn't reds call it a judicial coup?

The elected government of Thailand just gets thrown out by whatever means the yellows can come up with.

If they want things to settle down get that thug sutep off the streets arrest him and charge him.Allowing him to go on like this does nothing more than cause yet more division.

I hope the army sticks to its word as a coup is the last thing Thailand needs.

Although some on here seem to prefer blood than ballot!

Parrot by name, Parrot by nature! Keep repeating the words 'judicial coup" and some will start believing,

The elected government of Thailand repeatedly broke the law and lied for their own benefit. The people of Thailand reacted and their PM/DM dissolved the lower house. There is no elected government. The previous regime were in caretaker mode when their caretaker PM/DM and others were removed due to breaking the law. They also face numerous other charges.

Certainly Suthep's and his mob have hi-jacked the protests, no doubt for their own agendas, But in doing so he became a rallying point for all those fed up with the repeated transgressions, lies and refusal to be accountable from the ineffective and inept Shin regime. The only thing positive they achieved seems to be vast increases in their personal wealth. Everything driven by nepotism, cronyism and family connections. Now they refuse to budge, just like Thaksin when he illegally occupied the position of caretaker PM after resigning and then re-appointing himself.

A Chinese friend of mine tells me that we fail to understand this because we apply Western logic and political understanding. She says we just don't understand the Chinese feudal and social contexts necessary to grasp all the machinations at play. She is right.

The answer of democratic free elections, an elected government ruling in accordance with the law for the good of the people, a fair and impartial judicial system with professional unbiased law enforcement applicable to all, free speech and a free press would be a nice dream. The chance of that happening in this social context are totally remote.

[h90]

Good post, thanks

One of the best ways to judge a leader is how they leave power

Head up, with dignity and without fear - so far this is the way that the general is heading,

This can not be said other leaders that we see at the moment - its as much fear of what will happen to them when they leave as keeping their noses in the trough,

The one leader that is trained for war is talking peace - all the others are talking war or actions that are likely to lead to war

And a good post by you, and I mean that. But it's opinion and I happen to have a spanner here so I'll toss it in.

What if? Please consider this possibility. What if Gen Prayuth is doing everything he's doing for the one, sole, only reason that he is desperate to exit in September "with dignity and without fear" that events will come back to bite him very hard? What if he is *afraid" to be like General Sondhi, leader of the 2006 coup, who is reviled by half the country and honoured by no one at all? What if the only motive that Prayuth has is to avoid being another General Suchinda, who masterminded the coup before that, who is remembered by exactly no one for saving the country from the "most corrupt government in history", as he claimed, but for Black September?

What if Prayuth is basing every action - and of course every NON-action - on personal, selfish motives that have nothing at all to do with the fate of the country but only to do with what he believes is the legacy of Prayuth? After all, what he has ACTUALLY done is speak while refusing to act, threatening without ever carrying through.

If he is this man of peace you say he is, why is he always holding out the threat of a coup, stating forthrightly he will NEVER obey the law, but only do what is in the army's interest. So. After all, the threat of a coup is illegal under the law, just as a coup is completely illegal.

So what if the army's interest is not the national interest, but only Prayuth's interest? What if Prayuth is the most single selfish stakeholder in the entire range of powerholders?

Have you considered this?

The thing is that if there is a coup, there will be deaths. I mean, there are already deaths that reflect on Yingluck and Suthep, but not on the army. But every death after a coup will go on Gen Prayuth's record. What if he is deathly afraid and cowardly about that, and fears it so much that he will continue to threaten, intimidate and talk big until Sept 30, so that the retired Gen Prayuth will never be remembered for killing Thais?

Do you think that's possible? Why are you absolutely certain of Prayuth's honour as opposed to his personal selfishness?

.

But you know that General Sonthi, leader of the 2006 coup got elected as MP, sat in the Parliament till it was dissolved and Thaksin made him coalition partner even he doesn't need him in the coalition. So you can't say honored by no one.

[The stuttering parrot]

Notice one person refers to the people of the north as northern buffaloes .

Nice to see racist comments go unchecked by the mods.

At least your honest and chant the yellow mantra!

[doctorproc156]

Prayuth said from the very beginning of the protests that the army is not in the business of coups anymore. There were moments that people would not have been surprised if the army did stage one. At times the yellows wanted a coup, at times the reds. It doesn't seem to happen.

So the only probable alternative seems to be the "judicial coup" as the reds call it. After the shinagang is removed (in prison or in exile) and Suthep retired, new leaders should start the huge job of repairing and developing. Perhaps good old Surin can be persuaded to become a temporary PM? Reconciliation must be possible as the people in the north see the true nature of the shinas clearer and clearer since the rice pledging scam.

Anyone have a suggestion of acceptable and capable leaders?

Shinagang?? What about the criminals who instigated the 25 previous coups and committed the massacres of 1971, 1992 and 2010? When are they going to be charged in court? There is clearly a double standard here and until they charge both sides with their respective crimes, the courts are effectively meaningless. I am not advocating the dismissal of the court ruling, I believe that you should still respect any court judgement as stated in the constitution and protest through other means. I am no fan of the rice pledging scheme but it was still a legal policy and well within the power granted by the mandate of a democratically elected administration. What I am also not a fan of is the instigating of military coups using connections within the privy council and their associated elites to install an un-elected council. This is commonly referred to as fascism.

Edited May 11, 2014 by anantha92

[DrTuner]

TVF does provide some useful info once in a while. Didn't know his retirement is close, explains the inactivity.