Can Thailand keep from falling apart?

[Jingthing]

Thailand can't keep from falling apart... There is no heart, honour, sincerity, goodwill, integrity in any of the institutions. (And there hasn't been for nearly 100 years, and before that it didn't matter anyway.) Thailand is in moral free fall and will only stop when it hits the rocks at the bottom. When the reality starts to hit, Thailand will be a broken nation, and then hopefully it can rebuild. </Rant>

I hope you aren't right, really strongly hope that, BUT I think the potential for MAJOR violence has been building here for many years, and my gut feeling is that it might just have to be fully played out before a turnaround can really begin to happen. At that point most of us expats might be gone ... but obviously we don't matter.

[ginjag]

We need a type like Putin here as an interim National Manager.

He may as well be here, a good % of his country are here working--go go girls--travel industry--condo site owners--- in tally with the bib ??? Pattaya/Jomptien,example.

[Local Drunk]

Amazing, isn't it, how little Erika can post an entry on Thailand's economic state and what is contributing to it without making mention of the bankrupting rice scam.

Since you are so smart and well informed, please detail Europen countries, Japan and United States subsidy systems! What exact percentage of GDP do they spend on agricultural subsidies, has it bankrupted their respective economies! Please provide a direct comparison to Thailand with facts, unless of course you are a hysterical political bullshit junkie and just want to propagate more rubbish on a program designed and operational to benefit the lowest strata of the Thai economic life!!!

Ermm... What you've failed to mention is the "billions gone missing" in your comparison. Well, who profited the most of those missing billions? Certainly wasn't the farmers who are still waiting for their payments from the former PTP democratically elected PM that proposed this populist scheme.

A better comparison would have been to the the proposed 2.2 trillion baht infrastructure bill that would have put Thailand in debt 50 years with no source of accountability for where or how the funds were to be used.

However, since you insisted on dragging the US into this... Here's a link from the Atlantic that I hope doesn't violate any rules here.

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/03/overhauling-the-farm-bill-the-real-beneficiaries-of-subsidies/254422/

Edited May 13, 2014 by Local Drunk

[ggt]

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It's funny how people keep on mentioning about the rice scam. This program is designed to help the farmers. There are other programs that the government has done such as 30 baht medical program and funds for the military to upgrade military machinery. These are considered loss investment programs. However, they serve other purposes. They do not generate revenue like business investments. Are there any evidences that the money was put in their bank account? If it is, then it's considered corruption. So far, it is just a speculation because of the loss in this program.

The loss runs deeper than a bank account...many rice farmers and others have lost confidence in a gov't which took their rice...and gave them nothing...or a small percentage of what they were promised...why don't you converse with the families of the farmers who have committed suicide because of loosing everything...because of gov't intervention...and yes corruption...corruption does not have to be just about baht...

[mojorison]

Thailand can't keep from falling apart... There is no heart, honour, sincerity, goodwill, integrity in any of the institutions. (And there hasn't been for nearly 100 years, and before that it didn't matter anyway.) Thailand is in moral free fall and will only stop when it hits the rocks at the bottom. When the reality starts to hit, Thailand will be a broken nation, and then hopefully it can rebuild. </Rant>

I hope you aren't right, really strongly hope that, BUT I think the potential for MAJOR violence has been building here for many years, and my gut feeling is that it might just have to be fully played out before a turnaround can really begin to happen. At that point most of us expats might be gone ... but obviously we don't matter.

It worries me because there is no righteousness about it. The Thai political scene barely rates a centimeter in the worlds media..(sources I follow such as the Australian idiotic "news" effluent, CBS, Washington post, Huff Post, Salon, and a whole lot of other leftie stuff, plus Al Jazeera, BBC, and various journals and pay TV stuff. No one gives a rats toss bag, because they can see it for what it is. And that is greedy people trodding down on the less well off, to make themselves and their friends better off... from all sides and from within all institutions in Thailand. If there was a righteous path, or a martyr or a worthy honourable saviour, and the fight was over real things other than greed, then maybe someone would care and take notice. But they don't, and that's why it will free fall until there is no one left.

[stickyrice2000]

The reason why they can't pay to the farmers is because she is a caretaker prime minister. She cannot approve the budget now as a caretaker. You see how Suthep and others threaten the banks to lend to this program. It was just all the figures. The funds were never available. The loss is still in the rice. It's part of the political game.

[geoman1976]

To answer the question that the title poses...Nope! Get the fork ready, she's about done. Social out the window, politics just a power struggle between gangs(and they are nothing more than that),the now inevitable economic collapse, and nonsensical reforms that are going to further hurt the economy. I don't think they even really understand their own country's place in the world. I have never seen a place so out of touch with reality carrying such an identity crisis. Good luck Thailand...I am outta here!!!! Yaaaaaaayyyyyy!

[Chris Lawrence]

"Thailand's courts, the realm of the country's elites, are notoriously stacked against Yingluck's party",

Thats how most of the world appears to view the outcome in Thailand.

Next step is for business to reconsider their interests in Thailand.

Constitution has been OK up to know for the opposition, When not going their way it becomes the problem?

Without the numbers or support of the majority, it becomes dangerous to bulldose change.

The main reason the Shins are in with the majority of the country, is that their policies on the whole helped people. But like the others the Shins have helped themselves.

If compromise is not reached the Armed forces will step in. History repeats itself.

Suthep appears to be showing the 'red flag to the raging bull'.

[TimCM]

Thailand are in this right up to their necks and there is no way out , the whole agenda revolves around the integrity of the PTP , they just cannot be trusted , they double speak, go back on their word , interpret laws to suit themselves, blame everyone else for poor execution of policy and programs , the good Thai people do not believe these people and to continually push for elections , what is their secret agenda ,why are they so keen to possibly get into power , is it because the clean up will begin , get all the trouble makers out of the equation , so that reforms and totalitarian governance walk hand in hand, if that happens Thailand ,you are on your own..

This is why the answer is no. Most can't see that this would apply to both sides. Sad, just sad

[FangFerang]

From an old Brit band that had brilliant insights called 'Yes' (like most bards, not knowing it was more than Thailand they were talking about):

"Death-defying mutilating armies cover the earth,

when crawling out of dirty holes, their morals, their morals disappear.

Yesterday, a morning came, a smile upon my face,

Caesar's palace, morning glory --Silly human, silly human race"...

Weeping is an act of honor here. It's the same in Bangkok--reckless, feckless hatred -- all in the name of money.

All sides are damnable. All sides shoulder blame. All sides are guilty.

[Eric Loh]

Amazing, isn't it, how little Erika can post an entry on Thailand's economic state and what is contributing to it without making mention of the bankrupting rice scam.

The last I read about the economic health of Thailand is that the rating agencies still maintain the credit worthiness at +BBB and our debt to GDP ratio well below critical threshold. No the rice sheme is way of bankrupting the country.

[Eric Loh]

It's funny how people keep on mentioning about the rice scam. This program is designed to help the farmers. There are other programs that the government has done such as 30 baht medical program and funds for the military to upgrade military machinery. These are considered loss investment programs. However, they serve other purposes. They do not generate revenue like business investments. Are there any evidences that the money was put in their bank account? If it is, then it's considered corruption. So far, it is just a speculation because of the loss in this program.

Equally funny is that no one especially the yellow alliance brought up fuel subsidies which is the second largest subsidy. As you correctly put it, subsidies serve other purposes socially and economically. It's just a political motive to try weaken the PTP northern supporters. So far I have yet to heard or read of any corruption linking to rice that has been trial and convicted. All we hear from posters the same repeating groove of corruption and bankrupting the country.

[marstons]

PTP are voted by the people. Suthep does not want to cooperate with the government himself to discuss about the reforms. He wanted his people council. He violated the laws and caused unrest to the society. The person who is backing him dragged Constitutional Court and EC into this mess. It sure make them look like a fool to the people in Thailand and other countries.

Maybe to you. To most people it s clear that this Government is corrupt to the roots. Now what needs to be done: change electoral laws and have new elections. The way to do this is sit down and talk with the two largest political parties. Leave Suthep and the Shins out of it. Both have, in their odd ways, served their purpose.

But what if the majority of the country want the Shins involved and want to Democratically vote so as to have a Shin involved. The past government was corrupt as was the one before as will be most of the future ones no matter what party.

[3NUMBAS]

must be the new hub for falling apart ,too many scoundrels out there on the street.

the yellows were upset about the 30 baht health scheme so mean spirited are they towards their fellow countrymen and women ,but just an excuse

Edited May 13, 2014 by 3NUMBAS

[leggo]

I love the idea that the US and Europe are considered to be above all this sort of thing ! God how naive can people be. Politics is about buying votes .I am not in a position to side in Thai politics but ask innumerable amount of Thais whether there had been a progression in their life style, the administration and many other aspects of their lives over the last ten to fifteen years and they will all reply yes! How it's all happened and whether it's a good thing or not is another debate but the fact is the Shin faction definitely modernized this country so what's it to be in the future - sort of out of the frying pan into the fire sitch!!!???

Sent from my i-mobile IQ 2 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited May 13, 2014 by leggo

[RikDao]

Thailand can't keep from falling apart... There is no heart, honour, sincerity, goodwill, integrity in any of the institutions. (And there hasn't been for nearly 100 years, and before that it didn't matter anyway.) Thailand is in moral free fall and will only stop when it hits the rocks at the bottom. When the reality starts to hit, Thailand will be a broken nation, and then hopefully it can rebuild. </Rant>

Don't know much about the last 100 years, but this post has the ring of truth to it, for me. Kind of sad, too, but maybe there will be hope in the midst of the ruin.

[Bpuumike]

Can Thailand keep falling apart?

It's sure trying its best, with a harlem of idiots trying to continue to pave its way, and not accepting defeat once the scores are in.

"...a harlem of idiots"

I like it.

A new one for my list of collective nouns.

[outre99]

It's funny how people keep on mentioning about the rice scam. This program is designed to help the farmers. There are other programs that the government has done such as 30 baht medical program and funds for the military to upgrade military machinery. These are considered loss investment programs. However, they serve other purposes. They do not generate revenue like business investments. Are there any evidences that the money was put in their bank account? If it is, then it's considered corruption. So far, it is just a speculation because of the loss in this program.

it's even more funny how people post about issues they have little understanding of. This latest incarnation of the rice subsidy has to do with helping farmers as much as Yingluck has to do with governing. This scheme was conceved by Taksin & Co. as a way to corner world rice market and make serious dough. One might ask how i know this. Well, by looking into how this scheme was designed and implemented. For starters, the poorest rice farmers with small volumes were explicitely excluded from this scheme. Instead of paying farmers directly and allow the estabilished rice distribution and sales channels to operate, this scheme took posession of the rice, which incurred additional unnecessary costs for storage. Farmers were not paid for their rice right away, instead they got and IOU pieces of paper. The stored rice was withheld from the open market. These peculiar features seem rather incongruent with the stated purpose of this scheme, to help farmers. It only makes sense if you look at it as a play to corner the market and drive up the prices.

Unfortunately the genuises who came up with this load of c...p were too stupid to account for other rice producers who stepped in to satisfy the unmet demand and left the red government, Thai taxpayers, and many farmers holding an empty bag. In the process they've bankrupted countless farmers, rice processors, and exporters, destroyed Thai rice industry and its reputation on the world market. This kind of stupidity and vast documented corruption in the execution of the scheme is unprecedented even by Thai standards. She was the head of the government and the head of this wretched scheme and she should be held accountable togehter with the cronies who profited from this disaster.

[outre99]

The reason why they can't pay to the farmers is because she is a caretaker prime minister. She cannot approve the budget now as a caretaker. You see how Suthep and others threaten the banks to lend to this program. It was just all the figures. The funds were never available. The loss is still in the rice. It's part of the political game.

You've been drinking way too much red coolaid. They didn't have the money because their idiotic margin play backfired. Essentially they were counting on driving world market rice prices up by withholding rice that they borrowed from the farmers with the promises of above the market returns. When other rice producers stepped in and pushed the prices back down the game was up. And when the margin call came in the way of farmers demanding their money they had nothing left to pay them.

All of this happened months before Suthep took to the streets and the government had plenty of time to pay the farmers.

[AfterLOS]

if Thailand does not sort out the insane corruption then it will totally fail as it cant continue at this rate, when i first came to Thailand corruption was nothing like today approx 30% of all contracts

Thailand must feel the pain to see the light as so many just dont care and are happy living as MSG braindead slaves

YAWN

Parallel phrase ...

If the UK does not sort out the insane debt to GDP ratio then it will totally fail as it can't continue at this rate, when I first went to the UK the ratio stood at 40%, now its at 90%

and accelerating. Braindead applies to the UK too in this regard.

YAWN

[Tokay]

Thailand is quickly moving into failed state territory.

It happens. Look at history, even recent history. Countries fall down. Countries rise. Burma was the jewl of SE Asia before things went sour there. Russia fell on its face. China was poor. USA had a booming economy. And so on. Things change quickly, and now Thailand is on the way down. It wont stay there forever, but it probably won't shine again in our lifetime. The people are too divided, too uneducated, too unskilled, and unwilling to change, in addition to total corruption on ever level. This is what holds them down. Thailand should have been located in Africa, as it is on par with many nations there.

[northernjohn]

It's funny how people keep on mentioning about the rice scam. This program is designed to help the farmers. There are other programs that the government has done such as 30 baht medical program and funds for the military to upgrade military machinery. These are considered loss investment programs. However, they serve other purposes. They do not generate revenue like business investments. Are there any evidences that the money was put in their bank account? If it is, then it's considered corruption. So far, it is just a speculation because of the loss in this program.

Under Abhist the medical fee was free. Yingluck raised it to 30 baht. Not a lot for the patient generally speaking.

But a tremendous blow to the over all medical care as it cost 50 baht to process it. Leaving a loss of 20 baht a visit.

1,000,000 visits leaves a loss of 20,000,000 baht to the health industry.

Yes it was designed to look like it was helping the rice farmers. Check with the small rice farmers who are not red shirt related. Ask them where their money is. Or how about the tax rebate on new cars. Even if they get the money look at what the family debt rating is now it has gone up the roads are more plugged and the pollution is worse. This year the Auto industry is way down and people are starting to return the cars because they really couldn't afford them. How about the tablets to every student. Not even close and the ones that do get them get no help from them as they are junk with junk programs.

There most successful action and they don't see it that way is not getting Thaksin a free pass for all his crimes.

[northernjohn]

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Amazing, isn't it, how little Erika can post an entry on Thailand's economic state and what is contributing to it without making mention of the bankrupting rice scam.

Since you are so smart and well informed, please detail Europen countries, Japan and United States subsidy systems! What exact percentage of GDP do they spend on agricultural subsidies, has it bankrupted their respective economies! Please provide a direct comparison to Thailand with facts, unless of course you are a hysterical political bullshit junkie and just want to propagate more rubbish on a program designed and operational to benefit the lowest strata of the Thai economic life!!!

You don't need to know how they work all you need to know is the people get the money they are promised and here in Thailand they don't.
They are forced to borrow money and pay an interest rate on it. Some of them have to go to loan sharks and pay really high rates. Just because the government is with holding the money they said they would pay.

if Thailand does not sort out the insane corruption then it will totally fail as it cant continue at this rate, when i first came to Thailand corruption was nothing like today approx 30% of all contracts
Thailand must feel the pain to see the light as so many just dont care and are happy living as MSG braindead slaves

Well bugger me dead! Thailand has managed 80plus years with corruption so far! The 80's and 90's saw there fair share and it ain't any worse now. So why the hysterical claim of armageddon!

Yes there has always been corruption but ever since the army stepped back it has steadily risen with the exception of the Abhist years. With a minority government he managed to stop the increase. Since he has been out of office Thaksin has been the power and the corruption rate has steadily risen.

The grass roots protestors are the people who were just watching and finally got fed up with the blatant in your face corruption we have the votes and people don't count It is all about us attitude. They started organizing into small groups that eventually became united.

The only one's backing the government now are the ones who are uneducated or business people profiting from the corruption. Well yes there is that element that will back any one if they can be violent. They are backing them also.

[AfterLOS]

Thailand is quickly moving into failed state territory.

It happens. Look at history, even recent history. Countries fall down. Countries rise. Burma was the jewl of SE Asia before things went sour there. Russia fell on its face. China was poor. USA had a booming economy. And so on. Things change quickly, and now Thailand is on the way down. It wont stay there forever, but it probably won't shine again in our lifetime. The people are too divided, too uneducated, too unskilled, and unwilling to change, in addition to total corruption on ever level. This is what holds them down. Thailand should have been located in Africa, as it is on par with many nations there.

LOL

Yeah, Chiangmai, Thailand belongs in Africa. Its so bad in Chiangmai it could easily be a suburb of Tana, Madagascar. Outstanding food, marvelous infrastructure, beautiful women, everything just works and works well, incredibly good value in housing, phones including mobile - work consistently. Hotels so inexpensive one wonders how the heck they can offer such value, cops super friendly to foreigners, generally reluctant to issue a citation (haven't got one in 13 years, pulled over 15 times) - astonishingly good medical and car coverage. My buddies come to visit and fall in love with the place in a heartbeat. Massages @ $12 a pop.

Thaivisa should let some other nationalities in here before this GRAVEYARD achieves another level of DEATH

[Scarpolo]

if Thailand does not sort out the insane corruption then it will totally fail as it cant continue at this rate, when i first came to Thailand corruption was nothing like today approx 30% of all contracts

Thailand must feel the pain to see the light as so many just dont care and are happy living as MSG braindead slaves

totally forgot about the MSG

that explains a lot

[MAJIC]

must be the new hub for falling apart ,too many scoundrels out there on the street.

the yellows were upset about the 30 baht health scheme so mean spirited are they towards their fellow countrymen and women ,but just an excuse

I don't think the yellows under Ahbisit were worried about the 30 baht health scheme,if that was the case? then someone should have told you: that under the last Ahbisit Government he made the 30 baht health scheme FREE for the people.

[BestBitterPhuket]

if Thailand does not sort out the insane corruption then it will totally fail as it cant continue at this rate, when i first came to Thailand corruption was nothing like today approx 30% of all contracts

Thailand must feel the pain to see the light as so many just dont care and are happy living as MSG braindead slaves

Well bugger me dead! Thailand has managed 80plus years with corruption so far! The 80's and 90's saw there fair share and it ain't any worse now. So why the hysterical claim of armageddon!

Managed? Hahaha! Just because Thailand is still here, doesn't mean it has managed. According to your logic, Zimbabwe and Somalia have managed quite well as well.

Thailand has Managed to underachieve in almost any area. Are you happy with the public services here perhaps?

[BestBitterPhuket]

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Amazing, isn't it, how little Erika can post an entry on Thailand's economic state and what is contributing to it without making mention of the bankrupting rice scam.

Since you are so smart and well informed, please detail Europen countries, Japan and United States subsidy systems! What exact percentage of GDP do they spend on agricultural subsidies, has it bankrupted their respective economies! Please provide a direct comparison to Thailand with facts, unless of course you are a hysterical political bullshit junkie and just want to propagate more rubbish on a program designed and operational to benefit the lowest strata of the Thai economic life!!!

You don't need to know how they work all you need to know is the people get the money they are promised and here in Thailand they don't.

They are forced to borrow money and pay an interest rate on it. Some of them have to go to loan sharks and pay really high rates. Just because the government is with holding the money they said they would pay.

if Thailand does not sort out the insane corruption then it will totally fail as it cant continue at this rate, when i first came to Thailand corruption was nothing like today approx 30% of all contracts

Thailand must feel the pain to see the light as so many just dont care and are happy living as MSG braindead slaves

Well bugger me dead! Thailand has managed 80plus years with corruption so far! The 80's and 90's saw there fair share and it ain't any worse now. So why the hysterical claim of armageddon!

Yes there has always been corruption but ever since the army stepped back it has steadily risen with the exception of the Abhist years. With a minority government he managed to stop the increase. Since he has been out of office Thaksin has been the power and the corruption rate has steadily risen.

The grass roots protestors are the people who were just watching and finally got fed up with the blatant in your face corruption we have the votes and people don't count It is all about us attitude. They started organizing into small groups that eventually became united.

The only one's backing the government now are the ones who are uneducated or business people profiting from the corruption. Well yes there is that element that will back any one if they can be violent. They are backing them also.

You are lying. Thailand did WORSE on the corruption rankings under the Abhisit regime. That's how bad it is. It is TOTALLY out of control.

[BestBitterPhuket]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Amazing, isn't it, how little Erika can post an entry on Thailand's economic state and what is contributing to it without making mention of the bankrupting rice scam.

Since you are so smart and well informed, please detail Europen countries, Japan and United States subsidy systems! What exact percentage of GDP do they spend on agricultural subsidies, has it bankrupted their respective economies! Please provide a direct comparison to Thailand with facts, unless of course you are a hysterical political bullshit junkie and just want to propagate more rubbish on a program designed and operational to benefit the lowest strata of the Thai economic life!!!

You don't need to know how they work all you need to know is the people get the money they are promised and here in Thailand they don't.

They are forced to borrow money and pay an interest rate on it. Some of them have to go to loan sharks and pay really high rates. Just because the government is with holding the money they said they would pay.

if Thailand does not sort out the insane corruption then it will totally fail as it cant continue at this rate, when i first came to Thailand corruption was nothing like today approx 30% of all contracts

Thailand must feel the pain to see the light as so many just dont care and are happy living as MSG braindead slaves

Well bugger me dead! Thailand has managed 80plus years with corruption so far! The 80's and 90's saw there fair share and it ain't any worse now. So why the hysterical claim of armageddon!

Yes there has always been corruption but ever since the army stepped back it has steadily risen with the exception of the Abhist years. With a minority government he managed to stop the increase. Since he has been out of office Thaksin has been the power and the corruption rate has steadily risen.

The grass roots protestors are the people who were just watching and finally got fed up with the blatant in your face corruption we have the votes and people don't count It is all about us attitude. They started organizing into small groups that eventually became united.

The only one's backing the government now are the ones who are uneducated or business people profiting from the corruption. Well yes there is that element that will back any one if they can be violent. They are backing them also.

You are lying. Thailand did WORSE on the corruption rankings under the Abhisit regime. That's how bad it is. It is TOTALLY out of control.

[BestBitterPhuket]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Amazing, isn't it, how little Erika can post an entry on Thailand's economic state and what is contributing to it without making mention of the bankrupting rice scam.

Since you are so smart and well informed, please detail Europen countries, Japan and United States subsidy systems! What exact percentage of GDP do they spend on agricultural subsidies, has it bankrupted their respective economies! Please provide a direct comparison to Thailand with facts, unless of course you are a hysterical political bullshit junkie and just want to propagate more rubbish on a program designed and operational to benefit the lowest strata of the Thai economic life!!!

You don't need to know how they work all you need to know is the people get the money they are promised and here in Thailand they don't.

They are forced to borrow money and pay an interest rate on it. Some of them have to go to loan sharks and pay really high rates. Just because the government is with holding the money they said they would pay.

if Thailand does not sort out the insane corruption then it will totally fail as it cant continue at this rate, when i first came to Thailand corruption was nothing like today approx 30% of all contracts

Thailand must feel the pain to see the light as so many just dont care and are happy living as MSG braindead slaves

Well bugger me dead! Thailand has managed 80plus years with corruption so far! The 80's and 90's saw there fair share and it ain't any worse now. So why the hysterical claim of armageddon!

Yes there has always been corruption but ever since the army stepped back it has steadily risen with the exception of the Abhist years. With a minority government he managed to stop the increase. Since he has been out of office Thaksin has been the power and the corruption rate has steadily risen.

The grass roots protestors are the people who were just watching and finally got fed up with the blatant in your face corruption we have the votes and people don't count It is all about us attitude. They started organizing into small groups that eventually became united.

The only one's backing the government now are the ones who are uneducated or business people profiting from the corruption. Well yes there is that element that will back any one if they can be violent. They are backing them also.

You are lying. Thailand did WORSE on the corruption rankings under the Abhisit regime. That's how bad it is. It is TOTALLY out of control.