Immigration boss confirms the Out-In visa run is dead

[Alwyn]

Some countries, UK included I believe but definitely Brazil, have a policy of 180 days in any given 12 month period for entry visas or tourist visas. You can have 90 days then extend to 180 or spread the 180 days throughout the 12 month period - this includes a person who might have bought a home too. This seems like enough time for backpackers or extended tourism types to me. Could Thailand not work with something like this in place? Retirement visas, non B, non O stay the same I guess.

[LivinLOS]

"If we believe their purpose in coming to Thailand is not what they say it is, then we will order them to leave and they will be blacklisted. They will not be able to return to Thailand, ever."

So, if some guard at an immigration post has a bad day or just doesn't like your looks, he can at his discretion bar you from Thailand forever, because your story wasn't convincing enough for him. The possibilities for additional payoffs are infinite, I suppose.

It was ever thus.. The immigration officer has always had the exclusive right to determine if you should be let in or not.

But not permanently blacklist for life.. That was the domain of the courts.

[VeggieBurger]

All this talk over visa runs. It seems they are spending to much time on people doing runs when they should be working on updating how the visas work. The internet is a thing now-a-days. What kind of visa would a person need if they run or work at a US based company. Lets say this person works from home and stays in Thailand. They are not talking any thai jobs. So are they a tourist? or are they working in thailand and need a work visa for a non-thai company?

[LivinLOS]

The black list threat seems pretty horrible if it's just based on their "opinion" about a person. I can see that in case of an arrest and evidence proven. Imagine if it happened to you and it wasn't true especially if you are settled with lots of property here. This kind of hard core tactic should be really troubling to ALL foreigners here, no matter how totally legit you think you are. You might think this isn't about you, but to immigration you're just another SUSPECT, and don't forget that.

---------------

Blacklisting and forever banning some of the out-and-out criminals can only be a good thing.

I see several people bleating about being "respectable", owning property, etc -- If they are such pillars of society they will have no problem in getting a triple-entry tourist visa from their home country, which can be made valid for over a year using the immigration office in Thailand to get the extensions, etc.

Pray tell how do you get a 6 months triple entry tourist visa, to last over a year ??

Someone needs to go back to visa school methinks.

[Ace of Pop]

I've yet to meet any Ferang in 25 years on an Ed Visa who has a clue about Thai language apart from Bargirl Stuff they picked up. Just a Visa get out imo.... Perhaps Mac is just a fine Trader, who knows the Rouges that spoil it for Him. .

[daendin]

Never to come back again, wow people really need to start getting the correct visas then or say bye bye to thai !

Thailand don't want the tourists like you. We need quality tourists.

[hawker9000]

But what happens if u r respectable, owning property etc., with a triple entry tourist Visa, which I use, to come every Winter? If they now start asking questions on re-entry at the border and u tell the truth about staying at property u own or rent with your 'girlfriend', or even renting a property alone, can they legitimately say: "Well that means u r not a tourist then", and refuse re-entry. Is it legal for a 'tourist' to rent a property in Thailand.? Are we, to be safe, going to have to be dishonest and give a false itinery or hotel address?

AFAIK, this whole debacle is NOT about people with tourist visas. It's about people doing VISA-EXEMPT (no-visa) entries.

It's the VISA-EXEMPT people they're talking about scrutinizing.

If you're holding a legitimate tourist visa, you shouldn't have any problem with Immigration.

However, depending on the Thai Embassy/Consulate on where you obtain your tourist visa, they have varying policies about how many/how often they're willing to issue them, especially at some of the countries bordering Thailand. But if you're getting the tourist visa at your home country outside Asia, I'd say it's unlikely to be a problem there either.

Hopefully you're right. Just remember that a tourist visa is NOT a permission to enter the Kingdom, and you CAN be turned away at immigration at the discretion of the immigration officer. Where the visa comes from and where the immigration officer & his authority come from are two different government ministries.

Some are suggesting the embassies & consulates are going to be getting a lot busier. I think perhaps the immigration supervisors at Suvarnabhumi are going to be getting busier as well (reviewing the denials from the desk officers who'll be in CYA-mode...).

Edited May 13, 2014 by hawker9000

[White Tiger]

The black list threat seems pretty horrible if it's just based on their "opinion" about a person. I can see that in case of an arrest and evidence proven. Imagine if it happened to you and it wasn't true especially if you are settled with lots of property here. This kind of hard core tactic should be really troubling to ALL foreigners here, no matter how totally legit you think you are. You might think this isn't about you, but to immigration you're just another SUSPECT, and don't forget that.

Good point. If you are "settled with lots of property here" then you are clearly not a tourist. You should not be in the country on a tourist visa. Seems to me these are exactly the sort of people who will end up being blacklisted if they do not get themselves onto the right kind of visa.

[davejones23]

The black list threat seems pretty horrible if it's just based on their "opinion" about a person. I can see that in case of an arrest and evidence proven. Imagine if it happened to you and it wasn't true especially if you are settled with lots of property here. This kind of hard core tactic should be really troubling to ALL foreigners here, no matter how totally legit you think you are. You might think this isn't about you, but to immigration you're just another SUSPECT, and don't forget that.

So just like every other country then. A friend of mine has a 10-year USA visa that allows stays of 6 months every year, but an immigration officer told her that just because she has that visa that it doesn't mean h can visit every year and they will deny entry if they want to. UK, Schengen and others even tougher than Thailand. Genuine tourists are regularly denied entry to UK. There are 100s of reports about it. Some have even been denied entry because they can't speak English. Shocking.

Thailand is still easy for nearly everyone, especially Westerners. The vast majority of tourists stay less than 30 days and book flight home in advance. So crossing border and coming back makes no difference. Some people are trying to make this look like if affects more people than it does.

So an example - you're from UK and plan to come for less than 30 days - no visa needed. Or you plan to come for three months and visit some nearby countries - get multiple entry tourist visa. This is what people have to do in most countries. Thailand isn't any tougher. Try being a Thai, popping to UK on visa-free entry, popping across to France for a day and coming back. What do you think will happen?

All immigration are doing is getting people to apply for the correct visa. Next to no countries allow people to live there and hop across the border every month. If you want to stay long-term, then get a visa. The ones that can't are almost all working illegally. So why should they be allowed to do that?

[Mister Fixit]

One of the problems is that there are a lot of flaky private and Government schools, and language schools who will take back-packers, and so on. These sort of places won't assist with the documentation for teachers to get a WP or a B visa, so people who work there illegally were reliant on monthly border runs to stay in the country.

It's an open secret that even Government schools will take almost anyone just to get a white face in a classroom. As for private and language schools, well ...

That's going to have an awful lot of consequences, not just for the people who work at these places, but for their dependants and the schools themselves. There's going to an awful shortage of English teachers here soon ... Had Immi spoken to the Education ministry about that before they jumped in with both feet?

But, then, thinking things through is not a Thai trait, is it?

[Alwyn]

I think like many countries people should have the correct Visas. This is not strange but normal practice. Fingerprinting is an excellent idea anywhere, not just airports but ID Card, banks etc.

Why not Tattoo them also.................Oh thats been done before hasnt it!!

(sharp intake of breath) steady on there!

[LivinLOS]

Suvarnabhumi.. Air hub of asia..

Slow clap..

[hawker9000]

The black list threat seems pretty horrible if it's just based on their "opinion" about a person. I can see that in case of an arrest and evidence proven. Imagine if it happened to you and it wasn't true especially if you are settled with lots of property here. This kind of hard core tactic should be really troubling to ALL foreigners here, no matter how totally legit you think you are. You might think this isn't about you, but to immigration you're just another SUSPECT, and don't forget that.

Good point. If you are "settled with lots of property here" then you are clearly not a tourist. You should not be in the country on a tourist visa. Seems to me these are exactly the sort of people who will end up being blacklisted if they do not get themselves onto the right kind of visa.

And, if not married, not working, not 50, no family, not in school, "settled" but without enough property or investment to satisfy those rules, what kind of visa is that exactly?

[thaicookingchef]

When you know the bullshiiit that a prime minister can tell you imagine what this guy who is nothing can also tell...

[phuketrichard]

I hope they have more luck with the finger scanners than the had here in Cambodia.

They started scanning a couple of years ago. All 10 fingers of tourists that hardly speak any English, by guys that hardly speak a word of English. Huge frustration, much shouting, enormous queues.

Result: the scanners are still there but haven't been used for a year

thye have been used each and every time i have flown in to Phnom Penh

and the Cambodian immigration speak better engish than those here in Thailand.

How hard is it to understand?

[JLCrab]

All this talk over visa runs. It seems they are spending to much time on people doing runs when they should be working on updating how the visas work. The internet is a thing now-a-days. What kind of visa would a person need if they run or work at a US based company. Lets say this person works from home and stays in Thailand. They are not talking any thai jobs. So are they a tourist? or are they working in thailand and need a work visa for a non-thai company?

You say rather glibly that you would not be taking a job from a Thai citizen. There are many US companies that subcontract work in Thailand either through Thai-based US subsidiaries or independent Thai companies. Did you ever notice the number of Thai names when booting Adobe Acrobat or Photoshop?

[terryp]

going to interesting how they handle the Malays who bounce over the border for bar girl weekends on 30 day stamps...or is that same same BUT different

[Jiu-Jitsu]

All very confusing. "In and out", yes but what time-limit? I give an example, I am planning a 6-7 week holiday in November. There is a good chance I would not stay all the time in the Kingdom. My plan is after 2 weeks, to do a tour in Burma/Myanmar, for 6 days. Then go back less then 30 days to Thailand. Could that already put me in "trouble"?

If I just apply for a tourist-visa and stay in the Kingdom all the time, that would be no problem.

Just explain all that when you apply for your double entry tourist visa in the Thai embassy/consulate in your country.

A Single entry Tourist Visa is appropriate for that itinerary, as you get permission for 30 days on your return.

If he wants to leave Thailand and come back after a week or so -- he needs a double entry

You are wrong.

I have already explained why this is so.

Single Entry gives you sixty days in country and thirty days on re-entry. Enough for the OP's itinerary.

Visa free entry could work too, but he may get only 15 days on return, so better to get a Tourist Visa.

This case is not affected by the recent events, as he will not be attempting to return to the border immediately after leaving. He has a 'credible tourism plan'.

In addition, even without a visa, he would be unlikely to have an issue, unless it was shown that he had regular departures and re-entries over a short period. The problem being highlighted is immediate or relatively swift re-entry after departure on a regular basis.

[sae57]

Well. The language schools and other businesses will have to get off their duffs and do the paperwork to get work permits and visas, now won't they? Especially given the need for teachers of the new clientel studying for the ED visa. Ministery of Labor may need to beef up facilities to handle all the requests.

My only criticism is that they are not phasing this in more gradually to give more time to adjust.

[mrtoad]

Question:

On some occasions do visa runs from Laos to Thailand. I enter and exit Thailand on same day. I know several people in Vientiane who do same.

Will we be affected?

Likely not, as you have a credible tourism plan.

Gonki also has a high score

[davejones23]

The black list threat seems pretty horrible if it's just based on their "opinion" about a person. I can see that in case of an arrest and evidence proven. Imagine if it happened to you and it wasn't true especially if you are settled with lots of property here. This kind of hard core tactic should be really troubling to ALL foreigners here, no matter how totally legit you think you are. You might think this isn't about you, but to immigration you're just another SUSPECT, and don't forget that.

Good point. If you are "settled with lots of property here" then you are clearly not a tourist. You should not be in the country on a tourist visa. Seems to me these are exactly the sort of people who will end up being blacklisted if they do not get themselves onto the right kind of visa.

If someone settles in a country and buys lot of property without having the right to stay in that country they are being very stupid. Who in their right mind would buy lots of property based on doing visa runs?

[belg]

lets imagine, that the fingerprinting costs will come in the form of a new or higher airport tax, right ... so my new fingerprinted biometric pass can start to do its work ? on top of this, an extra medical insurance contribution, more tax, blablabla

thailand apparently has TOO MUCH TOURISTS

[Pralaad]

Now the real question is what is going to happen with all the visa run company's ??

Their mini vans, offices and drivers?

[Som wat]

Studying Thai, while having a visa based on that is not a loophole.

In the same way that retiring in Thailand and getting a visa based on that isn't, or getting a job in Thailand (God forbid. ) and getting a visa based on that isn't a loophole.

Seems there's a lot of people hating on a rich, successful person making money with their business here.

Probably because they haven't the ability to.

[LivinLOS]

All very confusing. "In and out", yes but what time-limit? I give an example, I am planning a 6-7 week holiday in November. There is a good chance I would not stay all the time in the Kingdom. My plan is after 2 weeks, to do a tour in Burma/Myanmar, for 6 days. Then go back less then 30 days to Thailand. Could that already put me in "trouble"?

If I just apply for a tourist-visa and stay in the Kingdom all the time, that would be no problem.

Just explain all that when you apply for your double entry tourist visa in the Thai embassy/consulate in your country.

A Single entry Tourist Visa is appropriate for that itinerary, as you get permission for 30 days on your return.

If he wants to leave Thailand and come back after a week or so -- he needs a double entry

No he wouldnt because he can use one visa exempt entry (allowed) and one single tourist visa..

[transam]

The black list threat seems pretty horrible if it's just based on their "opinion" about a person. I can see that in case of an arrest and evidence proven. Imagine if it happened to you and it wasn't true especially if you are settled with lots of property here. This kind of hard core tactic should be really troubling to ALL foreigners here, no matter how totally legit you think you are. You might think this isn't about you, but to immigration you're just another SUSPECT, and don't forget that.

Good point. If you are "settled with lots of property here" then you are clearly not a tourist. You should not be in the country on a tourist visa. Seems to me these are exactly the sort of people who will end up being blacklisted if they do not get themselves onto the right kind of visa.

If someone settles in a country and buys lot of property without having the right to stay in that country they are being very stupid. Who in their right mind would buy lots of property based on doing visa runs?

I know one guy who does this tourist stuff and is building a resort................. ...............in his birds name.................

[Jiu-Jitsu]

going to interesting how they handle the Malays who bounce over the border for bar girl weekends on 30 day stamps...or is that same same BUT different

They don't have a problem with Malaysians, especially as they are likely to have 'a credible tourism plan'. They have a problem with some nationalities working and staying long term illegally.

[Som wat]

Now the real question is what is going to happen with all the visa run company's ??

Their mini vans, offices and drivers?

Put to death, hopefully.

[Carrerakiss]

I don't see any connection between Thailand's real status has a haven for fake and stolen passports, as evidenced by the Malaysian Air debacle, and the current crackdown on recurring visa-exempt entries.

I'm sure Immigration and the MFA took flak, rightly so, over the stolen passports episodes, not to mention the bigger recent cases of stolen visa stamps from several Thai embassies/consulates that later were being sold out on the open market.

But cracking down on visa-exempt entries would seem to have absolutely no bearing on the problem of stolen/fake passports. I suppose, if one was already in the stolen/fake passports world, they could use those to actually avoid getting caught up in the visa-exempt crackdown.

I guess what would make an impact on the fake/stolen passports issue is their plan to start fingerprinting arrivals -- assuming Immigration is capable of operating such a computerized system across all of their air and land border entry points. You gotta wonder though, since the government can't even seem to manage to keep their Thai IDs and Thai passports computer systems in good operation.

I don't understand the link between stolen passports and immigration crackdowns either.

Look at it this way, Thai person is "employed" to steal passports belonging to foreigners holidaying in Thailand. Said stolen passports are sent by EMS to an address outside Thailand. Once received and held until the heat has died down on them, the passports get the photos doctored and used for some less than totally honest deed. How does an immigration crackdown have any impact?

Of course, it could be a foreigner stealing the passports, but the point is, they almost certainly aren't then used to exit the country. Far easier to just post them out. Equally, the passports could just as easily have been stolen in Philippines, Malaysia, Cambodia etc etc. but Thailand has a lot of foreigners in concentrated areas and, sad to say it, plenty of people available for contract pilfering.

[Jiu-Jitsu]

Studying Thai, while having a visa based on that is not a loophole.

In the same way that retiring in Thailand and getting a visa based on that isn't, or getting a job in Thailand (God forbid. ) and getting a visa based on that isn't a loophole.

Seems there's a lot of people hating on a rich, successful person making money with their business here.

Probably because they haven't the ability to.

By attempting to insult the intelligence of the readers here, you make yourself appear unintelligent.