Sugarcane

[Canada]

I’ve decided to try to give TV Farming Forum members an in depth view of what growing sugarcane looks like here in Thailand. I do not claim to be an expert on this or any other farming related subject. Recently someone posted that there is relatively little shared on this forum with regard to broad acre farming. Sugarcane is a broad acre crop, and any information that I have found has been searched from the farmers here locally or in bits and pieces on this forum or just learned from my own (arrogance based) mistakes.

This is a rather long opening post on the subject. Sorry. I get "wordy" sometimes. The purpose of this is purely to provide information. No claim to fame, riches, or genius. Enjoy.

I “fell” into farming as opposed to having come from a farming background. It was a series of (in retrospect) poor choices rather than one big decision to become a farmer. I originally bought 30 rai to farm cane and our plan was to have her parents manage it while we lived in Chiang Mai. The following year we bought another 50 rai. Our first planting on the 50 rai failed. Period. It was the very wet year about 3 years ago. We had problems getting a tractor to work for us when we needed it and then the rains came too much too fast. It was just a total disaster. Our 30 rai piece was planted by hand and we had better luck with it, but it was still not up to our expectations. We replanted the 50 rai the following year and it worked out quite a bit better. We changed our planting time from “before the rains” to after the rains”. Lesson one. Plant at the right time. Our 50 rai piece did well and our 30 rai piece did okay, but again, not up to expectations.

My observations were; that we were hostage to the tractor contractors, her parents were farmers not managers and could not delegate work well, had no record keeping skills whatsoever, did things that we didn’t tell them to do and didn’t do things that we told them to do. In conclusion, it wasn’t going well and we either needed to sell it and move on, or move to the farm and manage it ourselves. Not knowing what else to do for income in Thailand I chose to move to the farm. We bought anther 20 rai for cane, and a 6 rai piece to build a house and run an experimental cane farm. I bought a tractor. I had never even been on a tractor but am naturally inclined to be able to drive things. My first year on the tractor I cleared 20 rai, ploughed and planted it and then ploughed and replanted the 30 rai which had never met my expectations. Now I live in that house that we built , in the middle of nowhere, in the middle of cane and do most of my own work and have all the gear I need to do it all.

I am originally a glassblower by trade.

I’ll get to the specifics of growing cane soon. I just want to give an idea of how I have come to know how to grow cane and what it has cost me to get that knowledge. Starting out, I have more dollars that sense and I have since traded lots of one for some of the other.

So now we’re at 100 rai of planted cane, a new house, tractor, equipment for the tractor; 3 disc, 7 disc, sub-soil fertilizer, sugarcane planter machine, large hauling trailer. Also have had to buy a two wheel “iron buffalo”, several surface water pumps, another kubota motor to run pumps, a 2 hp submersible, 2 - 5 kw generators, a herbicide spraying set up (pump, 1000 litre tank, 200 meters of hose, sprayer heads, and a back pack sprayer as well). I am in waaaay over my head but everytime I need something that I didn’t think of, it’s like... “I am in too far to turn back, so just get what we need.”

I’ve gotten good at tractor driving and working and do hire myself out now from time to time. I tried to teach my BIL to do it, but I think he has driving and learning disabilities. I do all the tractor work, from ploughing, planting to delivering cane to the scale/depot. I get some strange looks but what do I care?

Growing Cane

Disclaimer: I’ve learned to grow it, but there are lots of things I haven’t learned yet. This is just a summary of what I have learned.

You can grow cane in many different soil types. It’ll grow in sandy soil, it’ll grow in red clay, it’ll grow in black dirt. Best is black dirt. This would be the starting point for growing cane. Buy or rent land with good dirt. Your cane will come up better in the first year and subsequent years. You also may get more years off of your planting. Typical cycle is 3-4 years harvest off of one planting. First year is your new crop, following years are what they call ratoon crops.

Cane likes ph in the mid range (6.5) , but to be honest I have not tested nor adjusted ph myself on a large scale like this. I’m a bit lost with it. Ph level will have an impact on your plants ability to uptake nutrients. In areas that our cane is not doing particularly well, I suspect the ph is wrong. Anyways...

In the first year you will incur the largest costs.

You can plant 6-8 rai of cane off of 1 rai of “seed” cane. Seed cane will cost you about 16,000 baht per rai. The 6-8 rai will depend on how you plant. If you are planting with a machine, and your helpers feed the cane fast, you’ll use more per rai, but your first year cane will come up “thicker” - more shoots. IME this is a better way to go compared than trying to save on costs. Your saving on costs will have direct impact on income for some things, other things it’s okay to save on, you just need to know which ones. Once you buy the cane you’ll have to cut it and transport it to your plot of land. Cutting, loading and unloading will cost you about 4000 baht per rai so your cane is now worth 20,000 per rai which will plant 6 rai. But the cane is cut and at your plot. When you choose your cane for planting, you need to select a strain that has proven itself to grow well, is resistant to pests, disease, is resistant to drought, and puts out lots of new shoots in the following ratoon crops. Local cane farmers in your area will have their preferences and will usually be happy to recommend or explain the differences. We use 2 varieties right now. LK11 and Khon Kaen3. The Khon Kaen is a heavier cane, but puts out less shoots. The LK is a lighter cane, but is resistant to drought (renowned) and puts out lots of shoots. Both of these strains are popular in our area. We also grow another strain called “92” on our experiment farm because I’ve seen some really big and heavy 92 cane stalks and I want to see how it does over a longer term. They say it doesn’t do well in the ratoon crops but nobody around here irrigates. All cane loves water. The more the better. So far our 92 in its second year is doing great but it is grown under drip irrigation. It does put out significantly less shoots than the LK11. But it’s heavy...cutters don’t like it.

If you calculate the last paragraph, cane for planting will cost you about 3000 per rai. Roughly.
Hiring a tractor to plough and plant will cost you about 2000 per rai in our area. That means he plows 3 disc once, 7 disc once, and then plants with a machine.

Fertilizer for planting will run about 900 per rai (1 bag per rai) which is standard application for a planting machine.

We’re at 5900 now. If you plant at the wrong time you will need to water after planting. In the times that we have planted in the wrong time, it has cost about 1000 per rai to water enough to get the cane up and doing well. That means 2-3 waterings. And that will depend on how deep you’ve planted your cane. The 1000 per rai covers fuel for kubota, one man per machine, and food for him. This is traditional flood type irrigation and you can calculate about 1 rai per day per person/machine, oil changes, misc costs etc...

You’ll need weed control. Figure about 1000 per rai. It should be less, but depends on your choice of herbicide, and whether or not you apply it correctly. You may need to do it 2 times. It’s happened to us more than once. If you figure 1000 per rai, you’ll be safe. Buy your herbicide well. We have found huge differences in price by driving 80 kms or so. Our home area is very expensive. The 1000 baht per rai will cover your herbicide and application. Application has a wide range of prices too. We seen it from .8 baht per litre with my equipment, to 1 baht per litre with their equipment and then 1.5 baht per litre with my equipment. If you find a good guy, keep him happy. It’s not a job you want to do yourself. I’ve done it. Bought all the gear and spent a few days trying to do it myself because I was pissed at the sprayers, and in the end had them come and finish it with my gear. It’s a real shitty job if you are doing it by hand. A sprayer on a boom behind a tractor is best.

So worst case scenario planting cost is now 5900+1000+1000= 7900 per rai. Apply fertilizer one more time at 1000 baht because you buy good fertilizer, transport your workers and buy them food.

First year

-planting cost you 8900 baht.

Your yield may be as low as 10 tons or as high as 16 at farm gate price of 800 depending on your buyer. Could be as low as 700 so lets call it 750 per ton and lets say you average out at 13 tons per rai.

13 tonnes x750 baht per tonne = 9750 baht You just earned yourself a whopping 850 baht per rai in your first year.

Second year
no planting, one or two waterings, two fertilizings, one weed control.
Water 600
fertilizer 2000
Weeds 1000
Total 3600

Should get close to the same yield in your second year if you water, and fertilize.
9750 (13 tonne@ 750 per) minus 3600 leaves you 6150 baht per rai.

third year
yield will drop by 20 %

7500 (10 tonne) minus 3600 leaves you 3900


Fourth year
yield drops another 20 %

6000 baht (8 tonne) minus 3600 leaves you with 2400.

Fifth year replant


1st year 850
2nd year 6150
3rd year 3900
4th year 2400

Total 13,300 / 4 years = an average of 3325 per rai per year profit. I would not call that really good money. This assumes that god gave you this land and it has no cost associated with it whatsoever. So no investment in land or rental cost or cost of the money to invest in the land.

The only way to really calculate your cane farm profit is over your 3 or 4 year cycle after you have achieved that. We are heading into our 3rd year so my 3rd year and fourth year figures are estimates.

You can decrease your first year cost by using your own cane if you have any that you can use. It should be first or second year cane for planting. It should be in good health and about 10 -12 months old. Longer is better as you’ll be able to plant more. You can also decrease your cost significantly by doing your own tractor work if you have a tractor. You can also increase it it by doing it yourself f you don’t know what you are doing.

That is the reality of sugarcane growing.

What I have learned so far that i haven’t written yet is this:

Plan your crop well.

-If you want to improve the quality of your soil then grow a green manure crop first, throw some molasses around or some bagasse (kii oy), you should do this at the outset because once you plant, your in..... for hopefully 4 years. No turning back. You can have tankers of molasses come later after you cut a crop, but that’s all you can do.

- Know what tractor you will use for planting and subsequent work. You can save a lot of headache by planning your tractor. Measure the wheel spacing, space your rows so that your tractor can get in late and apply fertilize by machine or spray herbicide, or control weeds by mechanical tractor drawn means. This will make a huge difference in how your work gets done. The easy way or the hard way. Trust me, I’m still doing it the hard way because once you planted...right or wrong, you’re in. A row spacing of about a meter is good, but it depends on your tractor and if you will control weeds using the till method or only herbicide. (no till)

Plant in October/Nov planting season. Ground is still damp and you may get lucky and not have to irrigate at all. Your first year will be a good crop. If you plant in May (before the rains), you run the risk of the rains coming too much too fast. It could throw a real kink into your planting if you’ve cut your cane, but can’t transport it, or it’s at your plot, but you can’t get your tractor in to plant it and by the time you can, he’s busy doing something else. It’s a risky planting time.

Planting depth...depends. Deep is good, but takes longer to come up, and gives weeds a chance to compete with the cane. Could be problems. Deep will endure drought better. Shallow comes up well, beats the weeds, but doesn’t endure the drought well. Most people in my area try to plant about 6”. No deeper. It comes up well. The farmer is happy when the plants are up. I would call deep 12” and shallow 6” or less. The depth can also depend on how deep the tractor ploughed the ground in the first place. I plough deep. My planter runs a little deeper than most even though set up the same as the others. They don’t plough deep. Having said that, I’ve seen more problems from planting too deep than from planting shallow.

Herbicides. Prevention is better than trying to fix the problem once it has got too big if you can do it that way. Pre-emergent spraying is best. You may need to follow up with post emergent “spot spraying” later but it is way better then having a team trudge through 6 foot cane trying to kill weeds as tall as the cane. Father in law put us in this position one year. Expensive and a shitty job to have to do.

Water. Cane likes water. If you can find an efficient way of putting water in the field it’ll pay. If you’ve got one guy on a pipe on a kubota powered surface pump, it’s not cheap and it’s not efficient. It will help your cane survive a drought though. In our area, labour is hard to find. I moved to drip irrigation this year because of its efficiency. It was a little costly for the drip lines, but that’ll work itself out over a few years. I can get 2-3 times as much water down in a better way and my one and a half workers are free to do other jobs while the water goes out on its own. We have 2 to 3 rai systems that we move around. We put water down for about 12-16 hours then move the system. Reason for this is 100 rai. Lots of drip tape. Stuff runs about 1600 baht per roll (1 km long). So far I’ve got 20 kms out in the field. Drip is not that difficult but there is a bit of a learning curve.

Last thought on water. It’s expensive. One of the larger growers around here does not water. He only irrigates new cane. I’m looking more closely at what he does. He does a lot of it.


Harvesting Cane

A buyer comes and buys it at your negotiated price and terms. Not much to negotiate really. They set the price. They come with their burning team and burn the field. If it is a big field they may burn if off in 10 rai sections. Then the cutters come in and cut it. Once it is cut, trucks and loaders come in and take it away. The buyer will pay you typically dependent on the pay schedule of the sugar mill. Be careful. Don’t just blindly trust these guys. Supervise the trucks. Take plate numbers, full load/partial load etc. , color of truck, what time it left....write things down. I’ve seen their accounting methods. Trust me, don’t trust them to not make mistakes.

Growing it is half of it. Selling it is the other half. The profit is split along the same ratio. If you are efficient, planned things well, have your own tractor, and god was good to you, you may earn an average of 4-5000 per rai.....profit. Likewise, if you can open a quota with the mill, cut it and transport it yourself, you’ll earn the same roughly the same amount again. The problem with this is that to earn very much, you need lots of cane. Last year we grew about 1200 tonnes of it. At 50 tonnes per truckload, that’s 24 truckloads. Big trucks. 50 tonnes. Trucks cost (new) about 3,500,000 for truck and pup trailer. The problem then is one of logistics. Your truck is going to get stuck in the queue for days. could be 2, 3 or 4 days. So you need more than one truck....you can see where this is leading. If you have enough trucks, you have too much money tied up in trucks and you need to then start buying cane from others as well and transporting it on your quota. so in just trying to transport your own, you just started a new business. There is no real way around this. there are smaller “buy depots” that are private that you can sell to, but you do not get subsidies, sugar content (CCS) bonus, improvement bonuses or incentives. So you are better off selling it to the middle man for all the extra hassle and lack of compensation. There are also “small branches” of large mills that you can sell it to that are scattered about. You’ll get your bonuses etc, but they charge you to haul it to the factor/mill. So you get less. But the queues are typically much shorter.

We are still selling to the middleman. The next step is a big one and we re not willing to go there yet. The buying, burning, cutting, transporting and selling cane business is as difficult as the growing part of it, if not more so. Our middleman has 4 trucks and about 20 guys.

That’s about all I’ve got on this for now. If I’ve forgotten something, just ask I’ll try to answer. If I’ve got something wrong, just ask, we’ll try to get clarification.

There is much that I haven’t touched on. Mainly, more technical aspects of dirt testing and fertilization based on those tests, which will have an eventual impact on health of your plant and sugar content of the cane. Sugar content is only your concern if you are selling it to the mill. Otherwise your main concern is healthy heavy cane. We sell by weight.

There is a lot of this technical information available on the internet. I haven’t had the time nor the inclination to get myself educated about this aspect of growing...yet. It’s not that I don’t think it has value, I’m just tired. I’d rather do judo than spend time after working the farm studying the farm.

You guys go ahead and check my maths. I’m tired. I’ve gone through it quickly, but I’m not doing a spread sheet on it.

Hope this sheds some light on the sugarcane crop.

[Mark1971]

Canada,

Thanks for an honest, interesting & informative post.

Based upon your numbers, it looks like sugarcane doesn't provide great returns currently.

100 Rai is a big piece of land, which would cost a lot of Baht if bought now.

There is a lot of capital invested in the equipment & significant number of hours of hard work you have to put in yourself.

To me this makes sense if you enjoy the hands on work, freedom & the lifestyle.

Otherwise I would be looking into other opportunities, when it comes to replant.

[David48]

Right ... I'm off to draw a brew, pack a lunch and read the OP.

War and Peace has nothing on this!

Great effort ...

[Canada]

Right ... I'm off to draw a brew, pack a lunch and read the OP.

War and Peace has nothing on this!

Great effort ...

HI. Yes, sorry for the long post. It's not something that you can put into a small paragraph. The numbers of it could, but there would be no context or reasoning behind them. I've also written part of my story into it to highlite some of the mistakes I made which give reason for some of things that I suggest...like "plan your farm well."

I wish there was a post like this when I first started out....or when I was considering starting out.

[IsaanAussie]

Right ... I'm off to draw a brew, pack a lunch and read the OP.

War and Peace has nothing on this!

Great effort ...

HI. Yes, sorry for the long post. It's not something that you can put into a small paragraph. The numbers of it could, but there would be no context or reasoning behind them. I've also written part of my story into it to highlite some of the mistakes I made which give reason for some of things that I suggest...like "plan your farm well."

I wish there was a post like this when I first started out....or when I was considering starting out.

Good job Canada. I hope others build on your base. I found it a very interesting read.

[David48]

+ + + on the comments above.

[Canada]

Right ... I'm off to draw a brew, pack a lunch and read the OP.

War and Peace has nothing on this!

Great effort ...

HI. Yes, sorry for the long post. It's not something that you can put into a small paragraph. The numbers of it could, but there would be no context or reasoning behind them. I've also written part of my story into it to highlite some of the mistakes I made which give reason for some of things that I suggest...like "plan your farm well."

I wish there was a post like this when I first started out....or when I was considering starting out.

Good job Canada. I hope others build on your base. I found it a very interesting read.

I know that there are a couple of members that farm cane on a larger scale that myself and also there is at least one member who operates as a cane wholesaler (middleman). I am hoping that they add their knowledge that I haven't touched on, correct mistakes or make suggestions....

[cobbler]

Well done Mr Canada.Wow u r a patient man.

Love to get up your way 1 day and check out what you are doing.Its a real credit to you.

Cheers Cobbler

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[Canada]

Well done Mr Canada.Wow u r a patient man.

Love to get up your way 1 day and check out what you are doing.Its a real credit to you.

Cheers Cobbler

Sent from my SM-T315T using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Thanks for noticing.

give me a "heads up" if you'll be around, happy to share.

[thoongfoned]

excellent........ a really good read. your average of 13 tons is good too. people in our area would love to get this much off 10 rai let alone a 100! from the info I can gather and see for myself most farmers around are very happy getting close too 10 tons a rai. brother in law was lucky to see 7.5 tons over about 15 - 20 rai and his sugar looked a lot better then most here..........

[Canada]

Personally I think with some TLC close to 20 is achievable. But it'd have to start right on the planting (read- before the planting). Green manure crop tilled in combined with molasses and bagasse, then plant. Drip irrigate at least until plant is well established. If we do not sell and move on, I will likely do this one our 50 rai piece in two years. I've learned enough now to be able to do it right. I think.

[Canada]

BTW. In our first successful year on our 50 rai piece we got 16.5 tonnes per rai. We call it 48 rai because that's what it is on chanote. Then we called it 50 to even it out. Reality is that it has a road around it on it's inner perimeter, an access road through the middle of it and there is about 2 rai not planted. So I'd say it's more like 42 rai, and that may be a little generous. It's probably closer to 17.5 tones per rai actual planted land. We fertilised 3 bags per rai including the planting. Everyone said we were crazy wasting our money. Last year we fertilised 1 1/2 bags, we got significantly less when we should have got close to the same. We had other problems last year too though. Water was scarce, weeds did well against the cane...

There is probably a point of diminishing returns with the fertiliser, but I think we were within it on the first year at 3 bags. Last year we didn't even approach it.

[cobbler]

What are are you in Mr Canada? I think you are a long way from us so dont hold your breast waiting for us to show.However my mia was also most imprest when I read your post to her.She would like to go up your way for a look too.We have rubber and believe me, its not easy either.

We have often thought about changing to oi because plant and harvest seems easier than more labour intensive rubber.So we really appreciate the heads up on th oi.Now we think we will stay with rubber.Further fields dont seem to be greener, just different.

Cheers Cobbler

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[Canada]

Hi Cobbler,

Were a you a cobbler? In a past life?

We are in province of Nong Bua Lamphu.

Sugar is labour intensive, but only for about 6 months of the year if you are planting too. If not planting, it's not that bad. 6 months of the year is spent just sitting watching it grow. Need comfy chair for that.

How much rubber are you farming and how old are your trees?

Cheers.

[David48]

Sugar is labour intensive, but only for about 6 months of the year if you are planting too. If not planting, it's not that bad. 6 months of the year is spent just sitting watching it grow. Need comfy chair for that.

What do you do for the other 6 months?

Is there a complementary crop to keep you busy?

[Canada]

Not yet, but we are looking at few things. I was looking at fish, but I don't think we can do it on a large enough scale, as we've no running water close by and would depend on a well. We are now thinking of a combination of pigs, vegetables and fish (aquaculture) and feed the veggies to rabbits which we would grow for sale and for meat at home. We have 3 rai on our home plot which we re going to doing something with. But nothings certain right now except cane.

[Udoth]

Hi guys,

First of all, Canada, thanks alot for this post, it's very informative in many ways.

I have to comment on something though. Based on your calculations, you have the following numbers:

Profit per rai:

Year 1: 850 Baht

Year 2: 6150 Baht

Year 3: 3900 Baht

Year 4: 2400 Baht

Average per year: 3325 Baht.

Your calculations on profit didn't involve some things though:

Rent of land per rai per year: 500 baht(or more)

Transport: 13 MT x 150 Baht(average) = 1950 Baht

Harvest per rai: 250 Baht

This leaves us with: 625 Baht per rai per year (which is 2 or 3 days worth of food)

If this is really it, I'm wondering why people even bother?

[Canada]

Hi guys,

First of all, Canada, thanks alot for this post, it's very informative in many ways.

I have to comment on something though. Based on your calculations, you have the following numbers:

Profit per rai:

Year 1: 850 Baht

Year 2: 6150 Baht

Year 3: 3900 Baht

Year 4: 2400 Baht

Average per year: 3325 Baht.

Your calculations on profit didn't involve some things though:

Rent of land per rai per year: 500 baht(or more)

Transport: 13 MT x 150 Baht(average) = 1950 Baht

Harvest per rai: 250 Baht

This leaves us with: 625 Baht per rai per year (which is 2 or 3 days worth of food)

If this is really it, I'm wondering why people even bother?

No. You'll have to read it again more carefully.

But you are right about the lack of a number for the land and that is addressed in the post. BTW in our area you would be lucky to find land for rent for 1500. The days of 500 are long gone as is 1000. Nowadays, the standard seems to be 1500 for 3 years and the land owner takes the fourth year crop. The local land baron is now renting for 2300. I don't know how many takers he has, but thats pretty much any profit that you could actually count on.

As far as your other numbers, yes, but again addressed in the post, in the harvest numbers, we are selling to a middleman who comes and cuts it and trucks it off himself. Those costs that you refer to are his, not ours. And my profit figures are based on selling to the middleman in our field.

Like I said in the post, this is probably a worse case scenario for costs to plant and grow but probably not a worse case for harvest per rai. Like anything else in farming there are variables that you can control, ones that you can't, one's that you think you can and try but fail, and then good luck happens too. So none of the figures are etched in stone. They are approximations based on my experience.

Clearer?

[Udoth]

Oke that's clear and makes it less hopeless , thanks for answering.

[cobbler]

Hi Cobbler,

Were a you a cobbler? In a past life?

We are in province of Nong Bua Lamphu.

Sugar is labour intensive, but only for about 6 months of the year if you are planting too. If not planting, it's not that bad. 6 months of the year is spent just sitting watching it grow. Need comfy chair for that.

How much rubber are you farming and how old are your trees?

Cheers.

Hi Mr Canada.

Yes I was a cobbler amongst other things.

Now have bit over 49 rai of rubber trees.Price has turned to shit now though.trees on a 24 rai mountain farm are about 8 year old and the home farm is 20 rai of flat land.Bit of a hill up the back.We planted 1000 namwa bananas some lived and some died, stupid dumass me didnt listen.planted in dry season.Live 8nes r doing well.Planted 5000 prickee gnoo.some died some doing well.put 100 avocados in as well , some died some doing well.lol.

Dont laugh, the thing doing best is our small patch of toa fuk yeow.long beens..Its our beer money.Get about 200 to 300 bart every 2nd or 3rd day.sell them after pick7ng in the morning and get 10 bart a bunch .When we finnish selling we go straight and buy beer.lol.Also grow a few other vegies.tried docks but the dogs slowly ate them.lol

Sorry off topic.We are not home much these days but manage to enjoy life on our shitty income.love reading all these farming posts.

Cheers Cobbler

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[Issangeorge]

Canada, my wife rented our 11rai plot to a cane farmer for 3 years for ฿20,000. I guess he didn't do too well, because I notice after two years the cane is torn out and this year he is planting casava.

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[David48]

Not yet, but we are looking at few things. I was looking at fish, but I don't think we can do it on a large enough scale, as we've no running water close by and would depend on a well. We are now thinking of a combination of pigs, vegetables and fish (aquaculture) and feed the veggies to rabbits which we would grow for sale and for meat at home. We have 3 rai on our home plot which we re going to doing something with. But nothings certain right now except cane.

Well, since you mentioned Rabbits ... simple-question-do-thais-eat-rabbit

I was trying gauge if their meat is eaten amonst the Thais.

[khwaibah]

Not yet, but we are looking at few things. I was looking at fish, but I don't think we can do it on a large enough scale, as we've no running water close by and would depend on a well. We are now thinking of a combination of pigs, vegetables and fish (aquaculture) and feed the veggies to rabbits which we would grow for sale and for meat at home. We have 3 rai on our home plot which we re going to doing something with. But nothings certain right now except cane.kets has his product

Well, since you mentioned Rabbits ... simple-question-do-thais-eat-rabbit

I was trying gauge if their meat is eaten amonst the Thais.

Yes they do. Good friend in Chiang Mai has a 3 rai wabbit farm east of town. He got his original hoppers from the the Royal Farms. He has a local restaurant that caters to both Thai&farang. He sells rabbit at ll branches of Rimping Super Market. http://www.rimping.com/ and he sells to Bangkok.

[Canada]

Canada, my wife rented our 11rai plot to a cane farmer for 3 years for ฿20,000. I guess he didn't do too well, because I notice after two years the cane is torn out and this year he is planting casava.

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That's a cheap rental price. Works out to 600 per rai. She obviously is not taking the 4th year crop either. You won't find that around our area. People are paying 1500 now. In some cases 2300....go figure. If I could get 2300 per rai for my land, on a contract rental basis, I'd take it in a heartbeat. That's good money for doing nothing and still holding the land.

[wayned]

Most of the land around us is government land. We pay 700 baht per rai per year rental. It's laid out in 13 rai plots. The cane planting is much the same as Canada explains, but I really haven't got my arms around the harvesting. Some of the locals own trucks, and some own loaders, the cutting is done by hand by migrants and also some locals as there is actually decent money for them if they are good, so I really don't know who's on first. This year on the first burn the fire jumped the 13 rai fire break and burnt about 500 rai along with some pump houses and out buildings. It was a 24/7 job until it was all harvested and trucked to the processing plant. The amazing thing was that on the next burn they didn't cut a fire break and just let it burn out and did the same over again. They were out with spray cans of different color paint "tagging" the trucks as they were filled to keep track of "whose is whose"!

The corn harvesting is gradually going from hand picking to combine harvesting. I just imported a JD combine from the US. I bought it in Minnesota and had it dis-assembled and containerized and am just finishing the assembly. Although there are a couple of suger cane harvesters around, a chinese piece of junk and a JD 3510, most of the farmers tihnk that they will make less money if it's harvested by combine. In addition the harvesters eliminate a lot of jobs

[jopham]

Just a little report from our area (border Phitsanulok, Sukothai and Kampeang Phet). You pay 3000 baht rent for 1 rai of farmland and everybody is asking for a 6 year lease.

That starts to add up if you wanted to lease 50 rai. 50 rai times 3000 baht times 6 years is 900000 baht up front without planting cost yet.

My wifes owns little bit more than 200 rai and was leasing last year an other 300 something rai all together it was 550 rai. This year 120 rai was up for renewal of the lease. 6 Years ago she paid 1250 baht per rai now she was told 3000 baht. My wife politely said no.

3 Years ago with about 450 rai of sugarcain she produced about 6400 ton. A lot of rain, just perfect

2 years ago with about 500 rai of sugarcain she produced about 6100 ton. She got flooded on about 100 rai,

Last year with about 550 rai of sugarcain she produced about 5800 ton. She was snowed under with to much land and no labourers. Only 80 procent of all the fields got proper attention in regard of weeding and fertilizing.

I told her the farm is getting to big and she has realized that. So when the leases come up for renewal the answer was no, The people who owned the land had it leased out within a week, there were plenty of takers at 3000 baht a rai.

She wants to go back to about 400 rai so it is more manageable.

She wants to buy another 100 rai and lease a 100 rai so the total will be 300 rai owned and 100 rai leased, 300 to 100 and not 200 to 200 (or higher) makes much more sense to me and she has finally realized that.

10 years ago we got about 850 Baht per ton and slowly increase over the next 6 years to about 1050 baht per ton. Now it is slowly going down and reached 850 baht again.

She owns all the machinery to plant, fertilize, harvest and transport it to the sugarmills. Every field has got access to water in the dry season.

14 Years ago when she bought her first pieces of land, the price was about 14-15000 baht per rai with proper papers. Now it is between 120 000 baht for land with proper paper that does not have access to a decent road and 150 000 and more with decent access.

4 Months ago she had to sell to the government a strip a land that measured 8 by 200 meters. This was on a dirt track. The government needed the land to widen the road. This piece of land was 75 rai now it is 74 rai. The government paid 220 000 baht per rai ( I wished they had bought the lot, she paid 12 years ago 25 000 baht per rai ) plus all cost.

So since 4 months the farmers around here are now asking for 200 000 baht per rai for pieces of land on dirt roads but I have not heard of anybody being able to sell at that price HAHA.

The end of a quick report.

Jopham

[nev]

Be very careful doing sugar cane, many farmers near us have lost big time.

[jopham]

Nev do you know why and/or how they lost big money?

[nev]

Price of sugar go down and costs going up and by not meeting there quota too.

The factory has a new boss who not like the old boss insisted on debts to the factory be paid.

[thoongfoned]

jopham, those are good amounts to produce, even the bottom amount is well above what people around us could only dream of achieving,

brother in law "rents" a small amount of land from us. he does all the work himself (with wife children) even cuts and carts to the middle man. his best harvest was under 8 ton a rai last year, that's on the best land too. other land less than this. other sugar around us looks worse then his, so hate to think what people get back. the only way he made any money was by doing all the work themselves , I been looking at sugar for a good while and i think the only way to make money is to have all the machines yourself and plenty of land and very good returns per rai, this in turn means massive investment! good on you and your wife from what you are achieving.

people around us (udon thani province) rent the land out much cheaper. i have heard of people paying 500 baht rai per year. thai people who i know that farm on your scale would not pay much more than this also. alot do the free third year deal, people seem to be happy with this here.

do you ever sell early? for the first time ever we had some cash buyers here the other day. would not give me a firm price on "good" sugar. got the impression the price that would be offered was 350-450 per ton.