"Crackdown" on ED visas now?

[Frank78]

Hello,

I'm not really sure if I may post this here or in the Thai language forum. Apologies if I'm wrong.

I've planned to spend a year in Thailand learning both Japanese and Thai (I am actually in Thailand and I've spent 2 years in Japan learning this language, so not at a beginner level and teachers here are natives). Having contacted 2 schools about it, it seemed first not to be a problem at all. They both answered me that there was nothing that could prevent me to study it for one year, and even up to 3 years (not in my schedule but, good to know...)

One of the School wrote to me today telling me that, there had new directives from the Ministry of education, forbidding them to propose a visa for more than 6 monthes for foreign languages.

This new directive is supposed to have started THIS MONTH.

I'm pretty sure, for the moment Thai is not concerned by this new directive. But if they are aiming Japanese, a "rare" language that not a lot of farangs are looking to learn just for the purpose of getting an ED visa (poor guys, with japanese, they are entering a world of pain), what about English and other non-Thai studies? It seems logical to me than if they touch something so marginal as Japanese language is, there is no reason they wouldn't go after every others. I'm pretty sure it's not the favourite BS ED visa for illegal workers here.

Is there someone (school director) that could confirm or infirm it? It seems not all the schools are aware of that to this day, and could be it's even worse than we may think.

I really don't like to bring bad news, I would be quite happy for this to be a major case of BS, but it seemed to me really serious.

Frank

[Maestro]

For quite a long time already, unless a student was enrolled for a degree-earning course at a university he could get only a non-ED visa valid for one trip to Thailand within three months from its date of issue, on arrival got permission to stay, and subsequently got 90-day extensions of stay.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Frank78]

Would makes perfect sens to prevent illegal work BUT, 3 monthes are way too restrictive (especially when they ask a minimum of 4 hours a week of study to get an ED visa). Most democratic countries (including really hard-boiled immigration countries, like Japan and USA) offers a 1 year language study visa, renewable for 2 or 3 years in Japan.

Difference is, in Japan you have to show an attendency of more than 85% to the 20h/weeks mandatory classes (Same amount in USA for a year-long study time). If you fail to do that, the school have to call the immigration and you will be deportated in 2 weeks maximum. Before that, you would have seen your name and your country of origin printed on every doors of the building to bring the shame on you and your family (don't works a lot with westerners student though)

So don't get me wrong: I do think thailand is really cool about it.

Thing is, if such thing is really in the papers of the Thai government, schools would better hurry to notify that to the future students. And again, it could just have been some BS from a single school (but one with good reputation, that's why I tend to take it seriously).

So again, if someone could look at this...

For quite a long time already, unless a student was enrolled for a degree-earning course at a university he could get only a non-ED visa valid for one trip to Thailand within three months from its date of issue, on arrival got permission to stay, and subsequently got 90-day extensions of stay.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[I Like Thai]

It's the schools that provide the Ed Visa, but very little or no teaching of the Thai language to it's students that will be responsible for strict tightening of the Ed Visa system

[nidieunimaitre]

There is a school that provides FREE ed visas, and guarantees unlimited stay in Thailand.

Easy to find if you are a TV user.

The name is Mac Pinocchio or something.

Stay tuned, and the name will pop up!

[Frank78]

I don't get it

Do you mean that this school lied to me about this new visa limitation (and no: it's not the Walen school) or do you mean the whole ED visa thing is doomed?

There is a school that provides FREE ed visas, and guarantees unlimited stay in Thailand.
Easy to find if you are a TV user.
The name is Mac Pinocchio or something.
Stay tuned, and the name will pop up!

[ubonjoe]

You first apply for and obtain a single;entry non-ed visa that will give you a 90 day permit to stay on entry.

Then you will apply for an extension of stay at immigration. Dependent upon your location the extension of stay can be for 90 days, 180 days or one year if attending a language school. You then apply for a new extension after the first one ends. This can be done for years.

What the school is telling you is that you will only be able to get an extension for 6 months at a time.

[Frank78]

Hey unbonjoe, thanks for your answer.

Please note I'm well aware of the difference between a visa exemption, a visa and a visa extension. I'm also aware of the extension to make every 90 days. I guess that a lot of newcomers here may get confused by all of this, but I am not. I've read hundreds messages on Thaivisa since 2 monthes about ED visas, different schools, and such. Thanks to this place.

But they didn't answered to me about the extension at all, it is about the "visa duration" that "the thai education ministry have changed recently for japanese language"... "you will get only a 6 monthes ". Proof is, they told me that they will apply the same price , meaning I will have to stick this normally 1 year cursus into the 6 monthes. Same amount of hours to qualify for an ED, in less time than before. I am sure you're already aware that other languages than Thai have different pre-requisites (number of hours to qualify for an ED, number of times max, you can renew it). To sum it up, I understand they've made a change about the maximum number of times you can make an extension, that is, total duration.

They are specificaly talking about a change that have been made this month about maximum duration of study for Japanese language (and possibily other languages, see my 1st message) and because it's the law, this school will have to follow it.

Once again, may be this school is wrong, may be they are lying on purpose, but I couldn't understand why, since it produce the exact opposite result, having me apply for Thai as a major instead in another school (it's OK, cause it is something I wanted to study as a second language).

Or may be they are right, and I think it could be interesting for the experts to check that ASAP.

[ubonjoe]

The school does not seem to know the difference between a visa and extension of stay. There is no visa that will let you stay for 6 months.

If they mean that the longest amount of time you can study a language other than Thai and obtain extensions is only 6 months they should say it that way.

[Frank78]

Ok, why not. But, what about this "new directive from the ministry" thing? they insisted on it, that is pretty new, came this month, that they had to conform to it.

Theschool does not seem to know the difference between a visa and extension of stay. There is no visa that will let you stay for 6 months.

If they mean that the longest amount of time you can study a language other than Thai and obtain extensions is only 6 months they should say it that way.

[ubonjoe]

I have read nothing about it. You should check with another school and see what they say.

[Sandman77]

Years ago a language school in Samui try to cheat me with a Ed visa, but because of the daily information input here on tv the failed

I not have any ed visa at this time

The boss from school I found on google a man with long hair and sunglasses come to visit me, and he says he can apply for me for ed visa

Without leaving Thailand pay 5000 baht and he can handle it with local immigration

He wants my passboard and copy of it by mail , but he reject that I can go together with him to get the visa

After I told him a ed visa can only applyed outside Thailand , he disappear quickly and the yes I call you tomorow phrase also never happens!

[Frank78]

Man you were lucky. Yeah seems to have a lot of scammers around the place. But in my case it's a known school.

Years ago a language school in Samui try to cheat me with a Ed visa, but because of the daily information input here on tv the failed
I not have any ed visa at this time
The boss from school I found on google a man with long hair and sunglasses come to visit me, and he says he can apply for me for ed visa
Without leaving Thailand pay 5000 baht and he can handle it with local immigration
He wants my passboard and copy of it by mail , but he reject that I can go together with him to get the visa
After I told him a ed visa can only applyed outside Thailand , he disappear quickly and the yes I call you tomorow phrase also never happens!

[Frank78]

That's what I did, I'm waiting for them to answer me back. But I thought here, given the experts that runs through those pages, the answer would be more useful to the greater number of people.

I have read nothing about it. You should check with another school and see what they say.

[MacWalen]

There is a school that provides FREE ed visas, and guarantees unlimited stay in Thailand.

Easy to find if you are a TV user.

The name is Mac Pinocchio or something.

Stay tuned, and the name will pop up!

It is Mac Walen, and the name of the school is Walen.

[MacWalen]

I don't get it

Do you mean that this school lied to me about this new visa limitation (and no: it's not the Walen school) or do you mean the whole ED visa thing is doomed?

There is a school that provides FREE ed visas, and guarantees unlimited stay in Thailand.

Easy to find if you are a TV user.

The name is Mac Pinocchio or something.

Stay tuned, and the name will pop up!

No problems for Walen students. If there is any trouble I will update you. Correct paperwork is not an easy matter so be wise when choosing the school, the cheapest schools are dangerous as most of them abuse the ED visa provision.

[Mario2008]

Some replies removed as off-topic.

[Sandman77]

The guideline to open a language school seems to be very low!

2 years ago I was on the abc language school , and during the 2 month the school was closed because the government from the educational visa visit them one day long

The people want learn got chancel there allready make appointment a half day before

A simple call tomorow you have no school come next week, this not only happens one time !

The teacher was very friendly but the staffs right hand don't know what the right do !

I talk with many expats and the advice was go to Chiang may university if you want learn quickly

For a good price that the public can pay!

The main problem is that most school only have English teachers, if you speak another language then it's not a easy task to find the right school!

[Maestro]

There is a school that provides FREE ed visas, and guarantees unlimited stay in Thailand.

Easy to find if you are a TV user.

The name is Mac Pinocchio or something.

Stay tuned, and the name will pop up!

It is Mac Walen, and the name of the school is Walen.

...and, nidieunimaitre, no school "provides FREE ed visas", but a school can be expected to provide, free of any additional charges, the necessary paperwork to apply for the non-ED visa and subsequently to apply for the extensions of stay. I believe most, if not all, schools give this free service.

A school that "garantees unlimited stay in Thailand" is stretching it a bit far because it is impossible to predict whether and how the Immigration Act, the rules for extensions of stay, and internal immigration procedures may change in the future, but it is safe to assume that a school that offers courses in more than one field of study is better equipped to provide the necessary documentation for a longer period of time than other schools if the student is willing to study different things. This does not mean, though, that it should not be possible to study Thai for a lifetime, eg after a student has become fluent in Thai, including reading and writing, the school could offer a course in contemporary Thai literature and as new books are published every year there will be contemporary literature available for study until the end of time.

From my reading of what is happening with regard to the study extension, a school will have no problem getting the required documents for a student as long as

• the school is approved by the Ministry of Education (MoE)
• the student meets the requirement for attending classes, evidenced by the attendance record submitted by the school to the MoE
• the MoE does not find that the school issues false attendance records, ie certifying an incorrectly high attendance
• the student can, if called upon, show evidence that he covers his cost of living in Thailand with money brought in from outside Thailand, eg to dispel a possible suspicion that he might be working illegally in Thailand while on a study extension

[nidieunimaitre]

There is a school that provides FREE ed visas, and guarantees unlimited stay in Thailand.

Easy to find if you are a TV user.

The name is Mac Pinocchio or something.

Stay tuned, and the name will pop up!

It is Mac Walen, and the name of the school is Walen.

...and, nidieunimaitre, no school "provides FREE ed visas", but a school can be expected to provide, free of any additional charges, the necessary paperwork to apply for the non-ED visa and subsequently to apply for the extensions of stay. I believe most, if not all, schools give this free service.

A school that "garantees unlimited stay in Thailand" is stretching it a bit far because it is impossible to predict whether and how the Immigration Act, the rules for extensions of stay, and internal immigration procedures may change in the future, but it is safe to assume that a school that offers courses in more than one field of study is better equipped to provide the necessary documentation for a longer period of time than other schools if the student is willing to study different things. This does not mean, though, that it should not be possible to study Thai for a lifetime, eg after a student has become fluent in Thai, including reading and writing, the school could offer a course in contemporary Thai literature and as new books are published every year there will be contemporary literature available for study until the end of time.

From my reading of what is happening with regard to the study extension, a school will have no problem getting the required documents for a student as long as

• the school is approved by the Ministry of Education (MoE)
• the student meets the requirement for attending classes, evidenced by the attendance record submitted by the school to the MoE
• the MoE does not find that the school issues false attendance records, ie certifying an incorrectly high attendance
• the student can, if called upon, show evidence that he covers his cost of living in Thailand with money brought in from outside Thailand, eg to dispel a possible suspicion that he might be working illegally in Thailand while on a study extension

The ad on Thaivisa clearly states "FREE ED VISA", it does not say free paperwork - not that I believe in free paperwork or lunches. (I am with Friedman on this).

And yes, it is possible that under the current immigration laws there will be some people who will be life long BONA FIDE students - "some" as in 0,000000000001%.

And I keep thinking that if Immigration reads the ad for UNLIMITED STAY, they might go into crackdown mode, and that would be very unfortunate for all the genuine students.

[Frank78]

Please guys, can you just not turn that into a school wars again?

I just opened this topic for having people check what some school wrote to me.

[Maestro]

Removed an off-topic post. Please ask in the Thai Language forum if want recommendations or reviews of Thai language schools.

[Frank78]

So, to add to the weirdness of the whole thing...

Been today to the school (a major one: Pro Language, time square Bldg, in Bangkok) get the papers to "activate" my first ED visa in laos.

Big surprise is, unlike what we've been told before or heard, or read anywhere, the maximum lengh of study for 1 cycle at the school is for 6 monthes only. Yes, for Thai language...

According to them, after 6 monthes we have to ask to make a second cycle of 6 monthes, and at this point, pass a simple test in immigration to be autorized to do so. After that we can go on for 6 more monthes (with extension every 3 monthes, I suppose), an then do the same process again to reach the end of the second year, after a second test. I must add you still have to pay for 1 year of classes from the beginning.

So I guess the first school I contacted didn't told me such idiotic things after all.

Is that going to be the normal process everywhere from now on?

According to one employee there, it's a pretty new thing...

It could be useful to hear from other school directors / students

Have a good day.

[transam]

Hmmmmmm, how are they going to test farangs that come to LOS to learn Spanish, which a school teaches.

[Farma]

No problems for Walen students. If there is any trouble I will update you.

As there seems to be numerous posts about ED visa problems and changes maybe it is time for Mr Walen to give an update.

[Frank78]

Well, if rules have really changed (or are actually applied more than before) I think every schools, and not one in particular, should come clear as soon as possible. And/or at least change their policies of asking 1 year fee for a 6 monthes max curriculum (renewable).

Again, I'm not really sure of what of this could imply beside a mandatory (easy) test after 6 monthes. May be it's just that: some early test to make sure people will really attend classes. And if if it's the case, believe me, it's way better than to have to attend 4 hours a day 5 days a week like in a lot of other countries. Yes, I had to do that in Japan.

It's not a bad idea to filter people that never show up at a school. I'm not judging them or their reasons here, but it seems it became a way so popular to extend stay that the real student could be given some hard times because of that.

It would for sure be good to have some imput from the pro / educational guys.

[hathairat2711]

Hi Frank

Yes, ProLanguage have recently started six monthly Thai language tests, previously they were every 12 months.

Involves a journey to the MOE where you will need to answer five questions in Thai.

As for any change in providing income from overseas, the answer is no, there is no requirement.

[Frank78]

Hello

Do you know why they do that?

Is that a requirement from immigration?

Does it mean than now school cycles are 6 monthes? I mean, 6 month for beginner class, next 6 monthes intermadiate, and so on?

I mean, now for the immigration, their beginner classes are supposed to be 6 monthes max right?

Hi Frank

Yes, ProLanguage have recently started six monthly Thai language tests, previously they were every 12 months.

Involves a journey to the MOE where you will need to answer five questions in Thai.

As for any change in providing income from overseas, the answer is no, there is no requirement.

[Frank78]

I have read another thread on this forum that seems to show it will became the new norm in schools.

So now, what does it imply? just an easy exam after six monthes or a cycle shortened to 200 hours in six monthes? (as it is written on my school papers, despite they are saying it won't apply)

I've read that years ago they once considered to allow 3 cycles of study of 6 monthes: beginner, intermediate and "advanced" (as much you could become fluent in 18 monthes) and therefore, allow only 1 year and a half of study in languages .

If it's the case, thai visa and languages schools are gonna become a solution no more for the person that just sign to stay in the country.

I would like so much to have imput from school people now. they are the only ones that can actually clarify that. And everyone should be advised to ask about the six month thing before signing anywhere.

I want to add that what happens now really looks like what the first school told me (my opening message of this thread)...

[Frank78]

From another thread here what I've found (from Roda07)

Posted 2014-06-02 17:38:18

My friend just finished her interview at MOE last month.After the 1 yr ED Visa the officer allowed her another 6 months.It is possible that after her 6 months she can get another months?.Actually the officer told her that she get the beginner,intermediate lesson,so she need the last one(I forgot what the term)..

This is the fourth "six monthes" case reported here, just for this month.

So as I thought, if all of this is correct, it seems that some schools (may be all of them, may be some, including mine; Pro Language) are going for the six month curriculum, meaning you could only stay for 1 year on a half to learn thai to an advanced level (ahah!) maximum.

To sum it up:

6 monthes beginner level (with a test to be able to attend next level)

6 monthes Intermediate level (with a test to be able to attend next level)

6 monthes to advanced level. (and after that, goodbye ED visa..)

In this case this wouldn't be only a crackdown toward fake students, something I would have totally understood, but because of them we may face an impossibility to study a language up to a real fluent level.

More than ever people need to check what they are signing for at schools and ask "how long is the curriculum for beginner level" and non just "how long can I study here".

And ask for a clear and definitive answer.