Sudan woman faces death for apostasy

[Scott]

Posts deleted.

[outsider]

Oops, a little over the top, I guess. Well, the watered-down version - Islam is apparently a religion of peace, tolerance, acceptance and forgiveness. Something along those lines. Look around you and see if that's the case.

[AhFarangJa]

Oops, a little over the top, I guess. Well, the watered-down version - Islam is apparently a religion of peace, tolerance, acceptance and forgiveness. Something along those lines. Look around you and see if that's the case.

I think you mean Allegedly, not apparently, sorry, just being pedantic. But, have to agree with you wholeheartedly

[Bernard Flint]

"Islam is a religion of peace" they cry.....and will do so until it's them in the firing line..............

Vile religion....

What shall we do with all the muslims of Pattaya who drink and pay for women

[Yahooka]

Isn't it about time that bigotted countries like this are boycotted by all the world powers.

Sharian law is pack of <deleted> and the sooner western countries start blacklisted these countries , the better. How much aid has Sudan got from others over the last few years.

Cut them off until they wise up.

Sudan is already heavily boycotted,but unfortunately it doesn`t help.The degenerate rulers and mullahs in countries like Sudan would rather eat sand than to back off on their retarderd intepretation of Islam.

In the meantime the West is silent because of PC and "moderate" muslims countries couldn`t care less !!!

[Showbags]

"Islam is a religion of peace" they cry.....and will do so until it's them in the firing line..............

Vile religion....

What shall we do with all the muslims of Pattaya who drink and pay for women

Take some photos and send them back to their countries immigration department...and some news outlets.

[transam]

I think we all now believe that there is such a thing as "brainwashing"...........Sadly.....

[AhFarangJa]

I think we all now believe that there is such a thing as "brainwashing"...........Sadly.....

+100.....smack on!

[transam]

I think we all now believe that there is such a thing as "brainwashing"...........Sadly.....

+100.....smack on!

May I add, these folk want to integrate into societies of free men and women.................WAKE UP WORLD..............

[Mudcrab]

One cartoon about the prophet and millions of muslims riot.

Over two hundred innocent schoolgirls kidnapped - not a word.

[AhFarangJa]

One cartoon about the prophet and millions of muslims riot.

Over two hundred innocent schoolgirls kidnapped - not a word.

You forgot to mention innocent christian schoolgirls...

[AhFarangJa]

I think we all now believe that there is such a thing as "brainwashing"...........Sadly.....

+100.....smack on!

May I add, these folk want to integrate into societies of free men and women.................WAKE UP WORLD..............

Then,once they have integrated into the free societies they do everything in their power to convert them too.

[Jingthing]

Religion is worthy of respect as long as the religions do not violate basic HUMAN RIGHTS.

I would say in the modern world (not 500 years ago) the freedom to choose another religion or no religion without being murdered should be considered a basic HUMAN RIGHT for all people in all nations on our earth.

Not all Islamic nations are doing really bad stuff like this, but some are.

It is totally indefensible and should be strongly condemned by all forces of decency in the world.

[boomerangutang]

Nasty, inconceivable, disgusting. Sickening.

You summed it up pretty well. They really are sick animals

Except animals, sick or not, don't purposefully harm their own, mentally or physically, except when two males vie to be the one who inseminates the females. Granted, a rare few animals will kill their own brood, but they do so for nourishment. Islamists kill their own species, and don't even eat or compost the corpses. Just as insidious, Muslims will mentally torture their own species. Animals don't do that.

I think an apology to animals is in order, from the above posters. But wait, animals don't care about words. They can't be offended. Only people can be offended, because of their egos. Oh, almost forgot, there is a God who is very easily offended. He's the God of the Muslims. Too bad he's got such a big ego, and is so insecure about his belief system, as to get so easily offended.

Can you please explain why you are calling for me to apologise. I only used four words, none of them involved animals.

A misunderstanding, Neverdie. I was agreeing with you, and just adding (perhaps clumsily) to your sentiments.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts deleted.

[malm1943]

Here we go again. Islam spreading its harm and misery.

Only bigots utter such outrageous statements.

ALL religions came for the betterment of humanity.

And only human beings (beasts?) abuse their respective religions.

[boomerangutang]

Nasty, inconceivable, disgusting. Sickening.

You summed it up pretty well. They really are sick animals

Except animals, sick or not, don't purposefully harm their own, mentally or physically, except when two males vie to be the one who inseminates the females. Granted, a rare few animals will kill their own brood, but they do so for nourishment. Islamists kill their own species, and don't even eat or compost the corpses. Just as insidious, Muslims will mentally torture their own species. Animals don't do that.

I think an apology to animals is in order, from the above posters. But wait, animals don't care about words. They can't be offended. Only people can be offended, because of their egos. Oh, almost forgot, there is a God who is very easily offended. He's the God of the Muslims. Too bad he's got such a big ego, and is so insecure about his belief system, as to get so easily offended.

Can you please explain why you are calling for me to apologise. I only used four words, none of them involved animals.

A misunderstanding, Neverdie. I was agreeing with you, and just adding (perhaps clumsily) to your sentiments.

[Steely Dan]

Here we go again. Islam spreading its harm and misery.

Only bigots utter such outrageous statements.

ALL religions came for the betterment of humanity.

And only human beings (beasts?) abuse their respective religions.

A documentary made by UK television channel 4 went undercover at the largest Mosque in the UK, where it discovered teachers were quite explicitly stating that the penalty for apostasy was death. It's in the Koran in black and white, to deny this is to willfully mislead. Sure there are moderate Muslims who don't agree with this penalty, but plenty do as numerous opinion polls demonstrate.

[Jingthing]

Here we go again. Islam spreading its harm and misery.

Only bigots utter such outrageous statements.

ALL religions came for the betterment of humanity.

And only human beings (beasts?) abuse their respective religions.

A documentary made by UK television channel 4 went undercover at the largest Mosque in the UK, where it discovered teachers were quite explicitly stating that the penalty for apostasy was death. It's in the Koran in black and white, to deny this is to willfully mislead. Sure there are moderate Muslims who don't agree with this penalty, but plenty do as numerous opinion polls demonstrate.

That's the delicate thing when talking about the three Abrahamic religions. They all have this kind of ugly stuff in their ANCIENT dogma. But in the modern age, it really is largely ISLAM that is still stuck in taking the more horrific aspect of their ANCIENT dogma literally.

The other two Abrahamic religions have for the most part (obviously not entirely) moved to more modern interpretations.

Draw a cartoon depicting a Christian diety or a Jewish deity and people don't start riots and threaten to kill the cartoonist. But with Islam, yes that happens, and predictably so.

We're not supposed to notice that difference about Islam in our modern times. It isn't "polite" to notice that. But there it is.

[simple1]

One cartoon about the prophet and millions of muslims riot.

Over two hundred innocent schoolgirls kidnapped - not a word.

The death sentence is in contradiction to the Sudanese Constitution that provides for freedom of religion / belief. For the moment is looks as though the Islamic extremists heavily influence the Courts. It is considered highly unlikely the death sentence will actually be implemented, but still a horific experience for the accused. Within North Sudan there have been a number of protests against the sentence; examples:

"It is also distortion of Islam and Sharia, which are often used as an excuse for restricting rights," Yogarajah said. "Most Muslims believe the Qur'an is about justice, which is also the purpose of Sharia. The sentence does not serve this purpose."

Activists inside Sudan also condemned the court ruling and urged the government to uphold the freedom of belief for all people. "The details of this case expose the regime's blatant interference in the personal life of Sudanese citizens," Sudan Change Now Movement, a youth group, said in a statement.

http://crossmap.christianpost.com/news/wea-religious-liberty-commission-death-sentence-for-sudanese-pregnant-woman-is-miscarriage-of-justice-10416

A quick Google search will contradict your claim 'not a word' regarding the kidnapping of the school children in Nigeria. A number of Islamic organisation have clearly stated its against the tennants of Islam and as per usual it is not widely reported in Western media. An example of Muslims decrying the kidnapping:

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/muslim-world-scholars-condemn-nigeria-kidnapping-23634944

[Morch]

Here we go again. Islam spreading its harm and misery.

Only bigots utter such outrageous statements.

ALL religions came for the betterment of humanity.

And only human beings (beasts?) abuse their respective religions.

A documentary made by UK television channel 4 went undercover at the largest Mosque in the UK, where it discovered teachers were quite explicitly stating that the penalty for apostasy was death. It's in the Koran in black and white, to deny this is to willfully mislead. Sure there are moderate Muslims who don't agree with this penalty, but plenty do as numerous opinion polls demonstrate.

That's the delicate thing when talking about the three Abrahamic religions. They all have this kind of ugly stuff in their ANCIENT dogma. But in the modern age, it really is largely ISLAM that is still stuck in taking the more horrific aspect of their ANCIENT dogma literally.

The other two Abrahamic religions have for the most part (obviously not entirely) moved to more modern interpretations.

Draw a cartoon depicting a Christian diety or a Jewish deity and people don't start riots and threaten to kill the cartoonist. But with Islam, yes that happens, and predictably so.

We're not supposed to notice that difference about Islam in our modern times. It isn't "polite" to notice that. But there it is.

Oh, THAT elephant...

Ancient is a relative term, and as far as monotheistic religions go, Islam is sort of the younger brother.

Religions take a long time to mature, mellow, become more tolerant of other ideas - took long enough

for Christians to stop butchering non-believers and fellow Christians, all in the name of God.

Islam, as a relative late starter, is a few hundred years behind when it comes to religious evolution.

It is an open question if modern day conditions contribute to hastening of the mellowing process or if

they actually play a detrimental role - information technology, demographics, modern liberal policies and

the decline of older established religions.

[Morch]

One cartoon about the prophet and millions of muslims riot.

Over two hundred innocent schoolgirls kidnapped - not a word.

The death sentence is in contradiction to the Sudanese Constitution that provides for freedom of religion / belief. For the moment is looks as though the Islamic extremists heavily influence the Courts. It is considered highly unlikely the death sentence will actually be implemented, but still a horific experience for the accused. Within North Sudan there have been a number of protests against the sentence; examples:

"It is also distortion of Islam and Sharia, which are often used as an excuse for restricting rights," Yogarajah said. "Most Muslims believe the Qur'an is about justice, which is also the purpose of Sharia. The sentence does not serve this purpose."

Activists inside Sudan also condemned the court ruling and urged the government to uphold the freedom of belief for all people. "The details of this case expose the regime's blatant interference in the personal life of Sudanese citizens," Sudan Change Now Movement, a youth group, said in a statement.

http://crossmap.christianpost.com/news/wea-religious-liberty-commission-death-sentence-for-sudanese-pregnant-woman-is-miscarriage-of-justice-10416

A quick Google search will contradict your claim 'not a word' regarding the kidnapping of the school children in Nigeria. A number of Islamic organisation have clearly stated its against the tennants of Islam and as per usual it is not widely reported in Western media. An example of Muslims decrying the kidnapping:

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/muslim-world-scholars-condemn-nigeria-kidnapping-23634944

I think you're somewhat overestimating the negative reactions to such incidents within the Muslim world.

Yes, there's always someone who will condemn an action or deed such as this, but are they a true representation of

popular opinion and establishment religion? If there was widespread resistance to such barbaric acts, they would have

been long gone. There are progressive voices, but it does seem that they are an exception to the rule.

Another interesting phenomenon is that condemnations are more easily expressed when directed at transgression which

happen elsewhere in the Muslim world. Not that easy, nor safe to pass such criticism while residing in the same country.

This would explain why several progressive Muslim organizations and websites are not actually located in Muslim countries.

On the other hand, condemning almost anything deemed as a transgression against Islam, gets a wall to wall reaction.

As for the links provided, indeed telling - the first is actually a mostly a statement by the World Evangelical Alliance, which

is, obviously, not a Muslim organization. As far as I recall, Sudan Change Now is not exactly a major force with a whole lot of popular support. Regardless, the only demonstrations mentioned were:

"The court has sentenced you to be hanged till you are dead," Judge Abaas Al Khalifa told 27-year-old Meriam Yahia Ibrahim, who also has a 20-month-old son, after Islamist crowds shouted for the court to punish her

The second link claims world wide condemnation of Muslims - well....maybe, but not what appears there. Basically The Islamic Fiqh Academy (IFA) issued a condemnation, which was reiterated by the OIC's Independent Permanent Human Rights Commission. The IFA is actually an OIC organization. So make this a single instance. The very same bodies are responsible for fanning the flames over the cartoon incident, backing off a bit after it dawned on them that they went too far.

Now, I'm not saying there aren't voices in the Muslim world calling out against the kidnapping, only that instead of it being a non

issue, those condemnations are treated as news. Try to imagine the kidnappers being non-Muslims, and the resulting mayham

from Muslim media, spokespersons, and leaders.

[simple1]

One cartoon about the prophet and millions of muslims riot.

Over two hundred innocent schoolgirls kidnapped - not a word.

The death sentence is in contradiction to the Sudanese Constitution that provides for freedom of religion / belief. For the moment is looks as though the Islamic extremists heavily influence the Courts. It is considered highly unlikely the death sentence will actually be implemented, but still a horific experience for the accused. Within North Sudan there have been a number of protests against the sentence; examples:

"It is also distortion of Islam and Sharia, which are often used as an excuse for restricting rights," Yogarajah said. "Most Muslims believe the Qur'an is about justice, which is also the purpose of Sharia. The sentence does not serve this purpose."

Activists inside Sudan also condemned the court ruling and urged the government to uphold the freedom of belief for all people. "The details of this case expose the regime's blatant interference in the personal life of Sudanese citizens," Sudan Change Now Movement, a youth group, said in a statement.

http://crossmap.christianpost.com/news/wea-religious-liberty-commission-death-sentence-for-sudanese-pregnant-woman-is-miscarriage-of-justice-10416

A quick Google search will contradict your claim 'not a word' regarding the kidnapping of the school children in Nigeria. A number of Islamic organisation have clearly stated its against the tennants of Islam and as per usual it is not widely reported in Western media. An example of Muslims decrying the kidnapping:

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/muslim-world-scholars-condemn-nigeria-kidnapping-23634944

I think you're somewhat overestimating the negative reactions to such incidents within the Muslim world.

Yes, there's always someone who will condemn an action or deed such as this, but are they a true representation of

popular opinion and establishment religion? If there was widespread resistance to such barbaric acts, they would have

been long gone. There are progressive voices, but it does seem that they are an exception to the rule.

Another interesting phenomenon is that condemnations are more easily expressed when directed at transgression which

happen elsewhere in the Muslim world. Not that easy, nor safe to pass such criticism while residing in the same country.

This would explain why several progressive Muslim organizations and websites are not actually located in Muslim countries.

On the other hand, condemning almost anything deemed as a transgression against Islam, gets a wall to wall reaction.

As for the links provided, indeed telling - the first is actually a mostly a statement by the World Evangelical Alliance, which

is, obviously, not a Muslim organization. As far as I recall, Sudan Change Now is not exactly a major force with a whole lot of popular support. Regardless, the only demonstrations mentioned were:

"The court has sentenced you to be hanged till you are dead," Judge Abaas Al Khalifa told 27-year-old Meriam Yahia Ibrahim, who also has a 20-month-old son, after Islamist crowds shouted for the court to punish her

The second link claims world wide condemnation of Muslims - well....maybe, but not what appears there. Basically The Islamic Fiqh Academy (IFA) issued a condemnation, which was reiterated by the OIC's Independent Permanent Human Rights Commission. The IFA is actually an OIC organization. So make this a single instance. The very same bodies are responsible for fanning the flames over the cartoon incident, backing off a bit after it dawned on them that they went too far.

Now, I'm not saying there aren't voices in the Muslim world calling out against the kidnapping, only that instead of it being a non

issue, those condemnations are treated as news. Try to imagine the kidnappers being non-Muslims, and the resulting mayham

from Muslim media, spokespersons, and leaders.

As I said, I just gave some examples of the very few media reports & given the OIC represents 57 (?) Islamic countries I suggest it’s a reasonable body to refute the North Sudanese court sentencing.

When there were riots in response to the Danish cartoon, Islamic security forces providing protection for Western institutions in their countries were killed; as I recall not one Westerner. However not a single word of recognition for their efforts was expressed in the world media.

There is very little media coverage on the condemnations of Islamic extremism by Muslims. The general public are just not interested in having their preconceptions challenged. Also endless excuses to belittle the efforts of the moderates within the Islamic community who often put their lives on the line; many are murdered. In the reverse, the world Western media never hesitates for an instant to pick up on the negatives emanating from the Islamic world that the public avidly consumes.

[Morch]

The death sentence is in contradiction to the Sudanese Constitution that provides for freedom of religion / belief. For the moment is looks as though the Islamic extremists heavily influence the Courts. It is considered highly unlikely the death sentence will actually be implemented, but still a horific experience for the accused. Within North Sudan there have been a number of protests against the sentence; examples:

"It is also distortion of Islam and Sharia, which are often used as an excuse for restricting rights," Yogarajah said. "Most Muslims believe the Qur'an is about justice, which is also the purpose of Sharia. The sentence does not serve this purpose."

Activists inside Sudan also condemned the court ruling and urged the government to uphold the freedom of belief for all people. "The details of this case expose the regime's blatant interference in the personal life of Sudanese citizens," Sudan Change Now Movement, a youth group, said in a statement.

http://crossmap.christianpost.com/news/wea-religious-liberty-commission-death-sentence-for-sudanese-pregnant-woman-is-miscarriage-of-justice-10416

A quick Google search will contradict your claim 'not a word' regarding the kidnapping of the school children in Nigeria. A number of Islamic organisation have clearly stated its against the tennants of Islam and as per usual it is not widely reported in Western media. An example of Muslims decrying the kidnapping:

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/muslim-world-scholars-condemn-nigeria-kidnapping-23634944

I think you're somewhat overestimating the negative reactions to such incidents within the Muslim world.

Yes, there's always someone who will condemn an action or deed such as this, but are they a true representation of

popular opinion and establishment religion? If there was widespread resistance to such barbaric acts, they would have

been long gone. There are progressive voices, but it does seem that they are an exception to the rule.

Another interesting phenomenon is that condemnations are more easily expressed when directed at transgression which

happen elsewhere in the Muslim world. Not that easy, nor safe to pass such criticism while residing in the same country.

This would explain why several progressive Muslim organizations and websites are not actually located in Muslim countries.

On the other hand, condemning almost anything deemed as a transgression against Islam, gets a wall to wall reaction.

As for the links provided, indeed telling - the first is actually a mostly a statement by the World Evangelical Alliance, which

is, obviously, not a Muslim organization. As far as I recall, Sudan Change Now is not exactly a major force with a whole lot of popular support. Regardless, the only demonstrations mentioned were:

"The court has sentenced you to be hanged till you are dead," Judge Abaas Al Khalifa told 27-year-old Meriam Yahia Ibrahim, who also has a 20-month-old son, after Islamist crowds shouted for the court to punish her

The second link claims world wide condemnation of Muslims - well....maybe, but not what appears there. Basically The Islamic Fiqh Academy (IFA) issued a condemnation, which was reiterated by the OIC's Independent Permanent Human Rights Commission. The IFA is actually an OIC organization. So make this a single instance. The very same bodies are responsible for fanning the flames over the cartoon incident, backing off a bit after it dawned on them that they went too far.

Now, I'm not saying there aren't voices in the Muslim world calling out against the kidnapping, only that instead of it being a non

issue, those condemnations are treated as news. Try to imagine the kidnappers being non-Muslims, and the resulting mayham

from Muslim media, spokespersons, and leaders.

As I said, I just gave some examples of the very few media reports & given the OIC represents 57 (?) Islamic countries I suggest it’s a reasonable body to refute the North Sudanese court sentencing.

When there were riots in response to the Danish cartoon, Islamic security forces providing protection for Western institutions in their countries were killed; as I recall not one Westerner. However not a single word of recognition for their efforts was expressed in the world media.

There is very little media coverage on the condemnations of Islamic extremism by Muslims. The general public are just not interested in having their preconceptions challenged. Also endless excuses to belittle the efforts of the moderates within the Islamic community who often put their lives on the line; many are murdered. In the reverse, the world Western media never hesitates for an instant to pick up on the negatives emanating from the Islamic world that the public avidly consumes.

The OIC and affiliate bodies rarely condemn Islamic law verdicts which do not make major headlines. In general, the OIC does not tend to be overly critical of member states.

There were no Westerners killed in Muslim counties as a result of the cartoon mess, but there were definitely Christians injured and killed, churches burned and embassies attacked. As far as I recall, there wasn't much of a similar reaction toward Muslims, mosques and embassies of Muslim countries in the West.

It is untrue that there was "not a single word or recognition for their efforts expressed in world media". Furthermore, I still do not

fully comprehend what exactly is to be commended? That they acted as they were supposed to? To see their actions as being

out of the ordinary, is part of the problem. This ought to be the standard, and it is what Muslims enjoy in the West.

Quite a few Muslim newspapers and media outlets feature much worse cartoons on a regular basis. Doesn't usually result in

major worldwide disruptions.

There is very little media coverage of condemnations of Islamic extremists by Muslims because it is not at widespread as you

claim. It might very well be that more Muslims feel this way, regarding extremists, but in general, you don't really see all that

many mass protests against Islamic rule. When they do occur, that's actually major news. Having progressive, moderate, forward thinking scholars and organizations issue condemnations of transgressions happening abroad, or issuing them from

the safety of a Western country, is not quite the same as popular condemnation.

I have nothing but appreciation for people who dare to stand up such things in person, while putting them selves at risk.

Not belittling their efforts at all, just saying that they do not represent a popular global trend among Muslims.

[transam]

I would love to hear here from a farang female who now has taken this religion to hear their thoughts on this "legal" religious Sudanese barbarity.

[smotherb]

Please, Islam may be the sickest of the sick, but all religions are barbaric in their attitudes toward non-believers.

All religions are man-made and suffer all the fallacies of man.

[transam]

Please, Islam may be the sickest of the sick, but all religions are barbaric in their attitudes toward non-believers.

All religions are man-made and suffer all the fallacies of man.

Of course they are ALL man made.......BUT...........WHY do folk not understand that they are purely that.........Man made....?

There is absolutely nooooooooooooooooooo proof of any creator up in the "heavens", YET, folk kill folk because of written words from a BLOKE a zillion years ago.......... ........I am for sure noooooo angel, but I have learned that brainwashing is here.

I don't care what folk do with their religious thing but in his day and age killing the innocent really is from a bygone era.

[tomhell]

What a brave woman. Respect!

I´m from Germany and know a little bit about fascism and dictatorship from our history.

I have respect for every muslim but this is just "islamic fascism"

Tom

[simple1]

@Morch: "Islamic rule" is in the majority by way of brutal dictatorships that are Islamic in name only, often in collaboration in one form or another with actual Islamic extremists. Not quite sure on how you expect the majority population of moderates within these countries to carry out demonstrations or other forms of protest without being suppressed/killed etc etc

[Morch]

@Morch: "Islamic rule" is in the majority by way of brutal dictatorships that are Islamic in name only, often in collaboration in one form or another with actual Islamic extremists. Not quite sure on how you expect the majority population of moderates within these countries to carry out demonstrations or other forms of protest without being suppressed/killed etc etc

It is for sure harder to oppose things under brutal dictatorships, no argument.

But if there is indeed a majority of moderate Muslims, one would expect that at some point they would have enough of this

oppression and take to the streets. However, most uprisings in recent times lead up to the rise of radical Islamic groups, and

the downfall of secular dictators. Sort of trading one bad option for another (at least in my opinion). Furthermore, similar rulings,

perhaps not as extreme, happen in Muslim countries which are perhaps not brutal dictatorships (or maybe not the worst of them), Indonesia, for example.

It is not very surprising that radical Islamic rule goes hand in hand with brutal dictatorships. Both are means to control the masses. It is also nothing new, Christianity been there, done that, long ago.