Is it appropriate to tell a farang tourist that their behavior is inappropriate?

[marko kok prong]

An English family came in. Father, mother, teenage son and younger daughter. They appeared a bit full of themselves from the off, then they made their presence felt. "Where's the football then?" said dad in a loud voice.

The father continued to insist that "the football" should be switched to and he wouldn't give up. His son chipped in as well. On and on they grumbled, impervious to the situation. They were generally rude and aggressive, mother included.

Sounds like the characteristics of a typical northern monkey family.

did they not also add'it ain't half hot ere,innit'

[Old Stud]

Everyone who is claiming moral superiority in the name of a culture that isn't even their own is trending out on the thin ice of the absurdly ignorant.

Not everyone is claiming moral superiority. Last time a was at Harbin Hot Springs in California I was naked for three days. I love to be naked. I'm f ing naked right now (in my home) That's not the point though. If you have a house rule that its not appropriate for anyone to come in and shit on your rug, would you be claiming moral superiority by saying its just not appropriate behavior. I'm not a Buddhist but I know a lot of Thai Buddhists who are very serious about their religious and cultural rules, disciplines and behavior. (I'm not talking about Pattaya or Patong or Kho Samui beaches) - I'm talking about the heart of Chiang Mai. Have you even been to Chiang Mai? - there's over 300 Buddhist temples here. I don't make it up that the locals don't like it when farangs (including the Chinese who come and pee in the streets because they saw in in some dumb movie) act like pigs in their city - they have told me, because I learned to speak some Thai and they trust me with telling their truth. In my country/restaurant I would say "put on your damn shirt" but most Thais are be extremely tolerant and no-confrontational with visitors and farang. Trust me, they don't like it and are talking to each other about it.

[YipYipYa123]

Everyone who is claiming moral superiority in the name of a culture that isn't even their own is trending out on the thin ice of the absurdly ignorant.

Not everyone is claiming moral superiority. Last time a was at Harbin Hot Springs in California I was naked for three days. I love to be naked. I'm f ing naked right now (in my home) That's not the point though. If you have a house rule that its not appropriate for anyone to come in and shit on your rug, would you be claiming moral superiority by saying its just not appropriate behavior. I'm not a Buddhist but I know a lot of Thai Buddhists who are very serious about their religious and cultural rules, disciplines and behavior. (I'm not talking about Pattaya or Patong or Kho Samui beaches) - I'm talking about the heart of Chiang Mai. Have you even been to Chiang Mai? - there's over 300 Buddhist temples here. I don't make it up that the locals don't like it when farangs (including the Chinese who come and pee in the streets because they saw in in some dumb movie) act like pigs in their city - they have told me, because I learned to speak some Thai and they trust me with telling their truth. In my country/restaurant I would say "put on your damn shirt" but most Thais are be extremely tolerant and no-confrontational with visitors and farang. Trust me, they don't like it and are talking to each other about it.

they put up with silly behaviour for the money ,not any other reason

if these people were not spending the "tolerance " would dry up very fast indeed .........

[anotheruser]

Maybe people should just get over this you must wear a shirt thing. It is a hot tropical climate and not wearing a shirt is hardly an outrageous thug to do.

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

You sir are a a prime example of what Atf,and the op has talked about,no respect for the local culture and zero respect for yourself,so it's hot,what next would you walk around in a thong,i suppose you live in Pattaya or Phuket,if you even live here at all,try coming to the real Thailand up country and see how you will be veiwed,i have not come across you before but you seem the typical 'up yours ' to where i live poster,in short sir your views show how really ignorant you are.

Thankfully we live in a world where I am free to be utterly indifferent to your contempt. You Sir, are a prime example of why i said maybe people should lighten up a bit Mr. hard ass.

Utterly indifferent,yes ,to the place you call home,or maybe you don't,what pray tell is so hard about respecting the country you are a guest in,or is that to much of a challenge for some one who clearly does not give a rats arse about the people of the country he lives in,you are the worst example of expat/tourist,and exactly the kind of low life the op was talking about,and if you were so indifferent to my post why ,sir did you reply.

It is possible to reply to your post without any real concern of your feelings on this. As I said I will do what I want whatever you say. Luckily you do not run the world. Just for you I will run around with no shirt tomorrow. Different cultures respect or view things differently. If I go to the mid east and it isn't against the law to do so, I will drink alcohol, have sex with women or men, treat women as equals and a whole variety of things that the locals don't do (at least openly) Just because Thailand has some hang ups about nudity and sex in general does not compel me to share them. Some cultural taboos are nothing more then just silly nonsense and can be treated as such.

FWIW it is worth I live in rural Laos and go shirtless all the time. The locals seem to understand it is hot out and believe it or not many of them go shirtless too, and maybe wrapped in only a sarong. So do not lecture me about what goes on out in the sticks.

[DrTuner]

Everyone who is claiming moral superiority in the name of a culture that isn't even their own is trending out on the thin ice of the absurdly ignorant.

Not everyone is claiming moral superiority. Last time a was at Harbin Hot Springs in California I was naked for three days. I love to be naked. I'm f ing naked right now (in my home) That's not the point though. If you have a house rule that its not appropriate for anyone to come in and shit on your rug, would you be claiming moral superiority by saying its just not appropriate behavior. I'm not a Buddhist but I know a lot of Thai Buddhists who are very serious about their religious and cultural rules, disciplines and behavior. (I'm not talking about Pattaya or Patong or Kho Samui beaches) - I'm talking about the heart of Chiang Mai. Have you even been to Chiang Mai? - there's over 300 Buddhist temples here. I don't make it up that the locals don't like it when farangs (including the Chinese who come and pee in the streets because they saw in in some dumb movie) act like pigs in their city - they have told me, because I learned to speak some Thai and they trust me with telling their truth. In my country/restaurant I would say "put on your damn shirt" but most Thais are be extremely tolerant and no-confrontational with visitors and farang. Trust me, they don't like it and are talking to each other about it.

they put up with silly behaviour for the money ,not any other reason

if these people were not spending the "tolerance " would dry up very fast indeed .........

That's quite universal. Rich folks can basically do whatever they want.

The problem farangs face in Thailand these days is that the Thai middle class is growing and hence, the tolerance disappearing. Middle class is the cancer of all things fun, so .. unless the current conflict manages to throw the country back into peasantry, it'll be another Singapore in a few decades. Then every one will be wearing a shirt, yeah. Fun ? Go try Singapore now and check it out.

[Colonel_Mustard]

On my travels around Thailand, it's not been uncommon to see Thai men wandering around shirtless. I'm not sure it's as taboo as some are trying to make out.

[Colonel_Mustard]

Everyone who is claiming moral superiority in the name of a culture that isn't even their own is trending out on the thin ice of the absurdly ignorant.

Not everyone is claiming moral superiority. Last time a was at Harbin Hot Springs in California I was naked for three days. I love to be naked. I'm f ing naked right now (in my home) That's not the point though. If you have a house rule that its not appropriate for anyone to come in and shit on your rug, would you be claiming moral superiority by saying its just not appropriate behavior. I'm not a Buddhist but I know a lot of Thai Buddhists who are very serious about their religious and cultural rules, disciplines and behavior. (I'm not talking about Pattaya or Patong or Kho Samui beaches) - I'm talking about the heart of Chiang Mai. Have you even been to Chiang Mai? - there's over 300 Buddhist temples here. I don't make it up that the locals don't like it when farangs (including the Chinese who come and pee in the streets because they saw in in some dumb movie) act like pigs in their city - they have told me, because I learned to speak some Thai and they trust me with telling their truth. In my country/restaurant I would say "put on your damn shirt" but most Thais are be extremely tolerant and no-confrontational with visitors and farang. Trust me, they don't like it and are talking to each other about it.

they put up with silly behaviour for the money ,not any other reason

if these people were not spending the "tolerance " would dry up very fast indeed .........

That's quite universal. Rich folks can basically do whatever they want.

The problem farangs face in Thailand these days is that the Thai middle class is growing and hence, the tolerance disappearing. Middle class is the cancer of all things fun, so .. unless the current conflict manages to throw the country back into peasantry, it'll be another Singapore in a few decades. Then every one will be wearing a shirt, yeah. Fun ? Go try Singapore now and check it out.

Thailand like Singapore? I enjoy both countries and their differences but cannot ever see them being remotely similar except geographically and climatically.

[KhunBoy]

Thanks for replying to the comments I made on your blog. I think I know more about Thai culture than you ever will living as a white trash in this country. My wife and child are both Thai nationals and we live in an upper class housing estate here in Chiangmai. I guess those shirtless boys were probably laughing at your table because you actually were looking like a loser and white trash who depends on your two cent pension handouts to feed yourself and the bloody slut (let's hope s/he's not actually male too) you keep that's half your age. Typical! And I have not even started to stereotype your breed. Back in Oz we termed you a <deleted> monkey and that's what you are. Colonization days are over so crawl back to where you came from and start teaching your fellow monkeys culture and manners in your own hole and not here in Asia.

[ATF]

On my travels around Thailand, it's not been uncommon to see Thai men wandering around shirtless. I'm not sure it's as taboo as some are trying to make out.

Dear Colonel, They are called peasants and most of them are landless peasants or serfs if you would prefer the correct term.

[DrTuner]

Thailand like Singapore? I enjoy both countries and their differences but cannot ever see them being remotely similar except geographically and climatically.

Singapore, 1945:

The current city is a fairly new development. Thailand could be completely transformed in a couple of decades, just as it was under Phibuns dictatorship. Most of what people now call "Thai culture" seems to stem from his cultural mandates, even the name and anthem of the country. Just about the same time as the photo above.

[Colonel_Mustard]

On my travels around Thailand, it's not been uncommon to see Thai men wandering around shirtless. I'm not sure it's as taboo as some are trying to make out.

Dear Colonel, They are called peasants and most of them are landless peasants or serfs if you would prefer the correct term.

They are indeed and they make up the majority of the population (Thai and Western). So again, it's not as taboo as some would make out (though obviously inappropriate in certain places).

[Colonel_Mustard]

Thailand like Singapore? I enjoy both countries and their differences but cannot ever see them being remotely similar except geographically and climatically.

Singapore, 1945:

The current city is a fairly new development. Thailand could be completely transformed in a couple of decades, just as it was under Phibuns dictatorship. Most of what people now call "Thai culture" seems to stem from his cultural mandates, even the name and anthem of the country. Just about the same time as the photo above.

Just after being occupied by Japan during WW2. Look at the direction the 2 countries have taken since then. The size of Singapore also makes it a special case and I doubt Thailand could follow that model.

While it's not impossible Thailand could take a major leap forward, I'm not convinced there is the will or the work ethic here to make it happen.

Anyway, we're getting a bit off topic here so I'll bow out.

Edited May 16, 2014 by Colonel_Mustard

[ATF]

On my travels around Thailand, it's not been uncommon to see Thai men wandering around shirtless. I'm not sure it's as taboo as some are trying to make out.

Dear Colonel, They are called peasants and most of them are landless peasants or serfs if you would prefer the correct term.

They are indeed and they make up the majority of the population (Thai and Western). So again, it's not as taboo as some would make out (though obviously inappropriate in certain places).

It is not taboo, just the badge of a peasant. Nice pic in your other post BTW.

Edited May 16, 2014 by ATF

[arthurwait]

Same when I go to the Sunday market. There are no smoking signs around and a posted 2000baht fine, and you would never see Thai smoking a cigarette.

At the petrol station there are no smoking signs everywhere , but Thais take no notice of them. They will stand right next to a sign and pretend they haven't seen it. Most do put them out when told to, but many just turn their backs and ignore or pretend they can't understand, some will try to front you for daring to ask them to put it out until they realise I'm not scared of them.

They don't care that they are standing on 20,000 litres of petrol or that they are sitting on the inlet to that 20,000 litres of petrol.

[marko kok prong]

to anuthureuser,i tried to quote your last lame reply,about you wandering around in a sarong,and i note you said 'if i was in the middle east i would have sex with women or men",well a friend of mine spent a long time in the middle east,and his advice was;1= a woman for duty; 2 a boy for pleasure.and 3= a goat for sheer delight, as i think categorys 1&2 would probably not want to have much to do with a shirtless waster like you,i suggest you would be a classic number 3,and probably the goat would not even feel it if your D#*k is as lame as your posts.

[connda]

Thanks for replying to the comments I made on your blog. I think I know more about Thai culture than you ever will living as a white trash in this country. My wife and child are both Thai nationals and we live in an upper class housing estate here in Chiangmai. I guess those shirtless boys were probably laughing at your table because you actually were looking like a loser and white trash who depends on your two cent pension handouts to feed yourself and the bloody slut (let's hope s/he's not actually male too) you keep that's half your age. Typical! And I have not even started to stereotype your breed. Back in Oz we termed you a <deleted> monkey and that's what you are. Colonization days are over so crawl back to where you came from and start teaching your fellow monkeys culture and manners in your own hole and not here in Asia.

Ahh, finally. A Western Hi-So chimes in. 'We're collectively graced Your Grace.'

Looking down his nose, past the silver spoon to let the common farang <monkeys> know that they are 'trash' bereft of proper breeding and economic resources. My, my...some folk are so 'special'. "Suthep! Bring around the Bentley. The Mrs' and I are off to the Gymkhana Club for champagne, caviar, and cricket. Now get a move on you lazy monkey!"

Dude, take your shirt off -- loosen up. You eat, you suck air, you burp, you fart, you poop, it smells. That's not so special.

[muchogra]

You must have a pretty low opinion of Thais if you think they can't enforce their own rules or deal with offences themselves without a foreigner doing it for them.

I suggest you take you colonialist attitude and start packing

I don't believe the OP deserves such a rude comment.

As for you accusing the OP having a pretty low opinion of the Thai, I don't quite get where you get that inference!

It's my belief that many farangs, who first visit here and having seen the low living standards, invoke their "superiority complex" subconsciously, and do as they please without considering other people's cultures. The OP is a sort of pointing that out, to me, that is!

To the OP: never mind telling them. They can do it at their own peril!

[ATF]

Thanks for replying to the comments I made on your blog. I think I know more about Thai culture than you ever will living as a white trash in this country. My wife and child are both Thai nationals and we live in an upper class housing estate here in Chiangmai. I guess those shirtless boys were probably laughing at your table because you actually were looking like a loser and white trash who depends on your two cent pension handouts to feed yourself and the bloody slut (let's hope s/he's not actually male too) you keep that's half your age. Typical! And I have not even started to stereotype your breed. Back in Oz we termed you a <deleted> monkey and that's what you are. Colonization days are over so crawl back to where you came from and start teaching your fellow monkeys culture and manners in your own hole and not here in Asia.

Ahh, finally. A Western Hi-So chimes in. 'We're collectively graced Your Grace.'

Looking down his nose, past the silver spoon to let the common farang <monkeys> know that they are 'trash' bereft of proper breeding and economic resources. My, my...some folk are so 'special'. "Suthep! Bring around the Bentley. The Mrs' and I are off to the Gymkhana Club for champagne, caviar, and cricket. Now get a move on you lazy monkey!"

Dude, take your shirt off -- loosen up. You eat, you suck air, you burp, you fart, you poop, it smells. That's not so special.

Connda I think you are giving him too much credit. He says Upper Class. Upper Class what? If he was a real Hi-So he would have said High Class. Definitely from the worst class of all, the Middle Class, and an Aussie from the Colonies to boot!

[Colonel_Mustard]

to anuthureuser,i tried to quote your last lame reply,about you wandering around in a sarong,and i note you said 'if i was in the middle east i would have sex with women or men",well a friend of mine spent a long time in the middle east,and his advice was;1= a woman for duty; 2 a boy for pleasure.and 3= a goat for sheer delight, as i think categorys 1&2 would probably not want to have much to do with a shirtless waster like you,i suggest you would be a classic number 3,and probably the goat would not even feel it if your D#*k is as lame as your posts.

As this thread is about being appropriate, your middle name seems rather appropriate for you

Edited May 16, 2014 by Colonel_Mustard

[MooKwai]

If I was doing something that would cause offence to the people of the country I was visiting and an expat told me about it I'd be grateful, provided it was done with some tact, a confrontational "OI YOU, PUT A FACKING SHIRT ON!" is unlikely to go down well but a quiet word about the norms of a country would be welcomed. But then I'm probably not the same sort of person who would go wandering around shirtless.

[YipYipYa123]

You must have a pretty low opinion of Thais if you think they can't enforce their own rules or deal with offences themselves without a foreigner doing it for them.

I suggest you take you colonialist attitude and start packing

That is a strange reply.

He has some valid points.

He is asking his own kind where the line is in the sand, I don't consider it colonialism. I don't even know why you brought that up.

I actually feel the same as him actually, although i choose not to point it out, I prefer the Thais make up their own mind about a situation like that, and judge them as individuals rather than generalising, which if we were all honest we also generalise against Thais from time to time.... I see no difference, so I don't worry about it.

I personally always look at a country's social conventions and the 'dos and don'ts' before i visit a different country and culture... But that is just me, not everyone does it.

I never cross my gate without a shirt as i understand it is considered a bit vulgar yet not in a serious sense. More in a gossipy sort of way and more among the women.'

I like to be shirtless inside my air con house, and at worst would sit outside in the garden to have the odd ciggy back when I smoked, and sometimes a few Thais may walk past the house and stare at me... But I consider what I do on my property is my choice... But if the Thai family appear, I quickly go and grab a shirt.... Just out of respect.

I wouldn't personally go over and tell them to put a shirt on, but if I ended up being drawn into their company and a chat with them, I may think about dropping it discretely into the conversation if they knew about how 'some' of the Thais feel about being half naked in public places while at the same time stressing it is totally their own choice, but just sort of letting them know on the quiet, and then give a little smile.... I would be very surprised if it were met with abuse, they would probably thank you for sharing your local knowledge... I know I would.

I am totally with you.

A couple of years ago, I saw 2 Western backpackers waiting at the train station resting their feet (+ shoes) on the seats facing them. They were surrounded by around 20 local travelers including a few Monks sitting just a few meter from them.

I simply had to go straight to them and politely inform them of the rudeness of such an attitude in Thai culture. I didn't feel like a policeman, fighter, arrogant colonialist or whatever. Just felt like something had to be done about it.

I could see they were exhausted and hadn't realized at all the offense. I could also see that the locals didn't feel like going to tourists to show their discontent. They immediately adopted a correct attitude understanding the situation.

I just feel that we, in our position of foreigners with some insight into the local culture, can make a difference in such circumstances to fill the obvious cultural gap that leads only to a bad mutual perception with no intend to create it.

To call this colonialism is just stupid

I take the third class train

Last of the big spenders has spoken...

[anotheruser]

to anuthureuser,i tried to quote your last lame reply,about you wandering around in a sarong,and i note you said 'if i was in the middle east i would have sex with women or men",well a friend of mine spent a long time in the middle east,and his advice was;1= a woman for duty; 2 a boy for pleasure.and 3= a goat for sheer delight, as i think categorys 1&2 would probably not want to have much to do with a shirtless waster like you,i suggest you would be a classic number 3,and probably the goat would not even feel it if your D#*k is as lame as your posts.

You are grasping at nothing now. The fact that your friend advised you that sex with goats is sheer delight has nothing to do with me. I also never said I wear a sarong but the locals go shirtless in them. You are beginning to sound like a 6 year old kid now with kindergarten level insults.

As far as the OP goes if the shirtless foreigners were in a restaurant or business it literally is only the business of the owner or management of the place to say anything to anybody. I own a business and wouldn't want some idiot running their mouth off to my paying customers.

[Skint]

to anuthureuser,i tried to quote your last lame reply,about you wandering around in a sarong,and i note you said 'if i was in the middle east i would have sex with women or men",well a friend of mine spent a long time in the middle east,and his advice was;1= a woman for duty; 2 a boy for pleasure.and 3= a goat for sheer delight, as i think categorys 1&2 would probably not want to have much to do with a shirtless waster like you,i suggest you would be a classic number 3,and probably the goat would not even feel it if your D#*k is as lame as your posts.

You are grasping at nothing now. The fact that your friend advised you that sex with goats is sheer delight has nothing to do with me. I also never said I wear a sarong but the locals go shirtless in them. You are beginning to sound like a 6 year old kid now with kindergarten level insults.

As far as the OP goes if the shirtless foreigners were in a restaurant or business it literally is only the business of the owner or management of the place to say anything to anybody. I own a business and wouldn't want some idiot running their mouth off to my paying customers.

I'm confused, how do you get a goat to wear stockings?

[GuyL]

On my travels around Thailand, it's not been uncommon to see Thai men wandering around shirtless. I'm not sure it's as taboo as some are trying to make out.

In the small villages of rural Thailand, you indeed may witness a few Thai men wandering around shirtless, but that's usually in the immediate vicinity (short walking distance) of their home. You won't see those Thai men shirtless when they have to go to a larger town: then, they will certainly wear a shirt.

It's not always "taboo", but it's considered inappropriate in most places in Thailand. You even might be fined for indecent exposure: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/719070-ladyboys-arrested-for-songkran-breast-exposes/

Edited May 16, 2014 by GuyL

[YipYipYa123]

In bkk slums the men go shirtless but not a farang and not in restaurants lol

Only place I've seen it was in Khao San Rd and the guys were from Poland not so strangely enough

[MRTELLYOUSTRAIGHT]

I'm confused, how do you get a goat to wear stockings?

Ask any Taffy they're experts on the goat relative - stocking and high heel wearing sheep.

[connda]

YipYipYa123, on 17 May 2014 - 01:28, said:
"Last of the big spenders has spoken... "

No, no...not a Cheap Charlie, honest! A thrifty Scotchman. It's my breeding. It's in my blood. I can't help myself LOL.

<In reality, the only train that stops our buffalo and Thai dog infested village of rice paddies and lumyai trees is the local third class train. All the other trains shoot through like we're not there. That it only costs me 13 baht and the wife is free appeals to my frugal Scottish ancestry, I must admit - grin>

Edited May 16, 2014 by connda

[GuyL]

Thanks for replying to the comments I made on your blog. I think I know more about Thai culture than you ever will living as a white trash in this country. My wife and child are both Thai nationals and we live in an upper class housing estate here in Chiangmai. I guess those shirtless boys were probably laughing at your table because you actually were looking like a loser and white trash who depends on your two cent pension handouts to feed yourself and the bloody slut (let's hope s/he's not actually male too)

you keep that's half your age. Typical! And I have not even started to stereotype your breed. Back in Oz we termed you a <deleted> monkey and that's what you are. Colonization days are over so crawl back to where you came from and start teaching your fellow monkeys culture and manners in your own hole and not here in Asia.

Ahh, finally. A Western Hi-So chimes in. 'We're collectively graced Your Grace.'

Looking down his nose, past the silver spoon to let the common farang <monkeys> know that they are 'trash' bereft of proper breeding and economic resources. My, my...some folk are so 'special'. "Suthep! Bring around the Bentley. The Mrs' and I are off to the Gymkhana Club for champagne, caviar, and cricket. Now get a move on you lazy monkey!"

Dude, take your shirt off -- loosen up. You eat, you suck air, you burp, you fart, you poop, it smells. That's not so special.

Connda I think you are giving him too much credit. He says Upper Class. Upper Class what? If he was a real Hi-So he would have said High Class. Definitely from the worst class of all, the Middle Class, and an Aussie from the Colonies to boot!

I would add that it's only insecure people that feel the need to mention or brag about their alleged status or position in a public forum, especially when it has no direct relation with the topic discussed.

----------------

Edit: Trying to fix a problem with quotes...

Edited May 16, 2014 by GuyL

[GuyL]

Off topic : Sorry about the above post: can't fix the quotes (the forum software keeps adding 3 unnecessary ending quote tags at the end of my post and I can't remove them).

[lanng khao]

to anuthureuser,i tried to quote your last lame reply,about you wandering around in a sarong,and i note you said 'if i was in the middle east i would have sex with women or men",well a friend of mine spent a long time in the middle east,and his advice was;1= a woman for duty; 2 a boy for pleasure.and 3= a goat for sheer delight, as i think categorys 1&2 would probably not want to have much to do with a shirtless waster like you,i suggest you would be a classic number 3,and probably the goat would not even feel it if your D#*k is as lame as your posts.

You are grasping at nothing now. The fact that your friend advised you that sex with goats is sheer delight has nothing to do with me. I also never said I wear a sarong but the locals go shirtless in them. You are beginning to sound like a 6 year old kid now with kindergarten level insults.

As far as the OP goes if the shirtless foreigners were in a restaurant or business it literally is only the business of the owner or management of the place to say anything to anybody. I own a business and wouldn't want some idiot running their mouth off to my paying customers.

I'm confused, how do you get a goat to wear stockings?

bhaahhh fine them first

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect Thailand