Non-o Multientry & Current Crackdown

[depe]

I decided to start this thread because I assume that also the non-immigrant visa holders might see interesting times after the new rules about visa exceptions (=no more border runs without a proper visa). Maybe people can share their experiences and discuss “what to do next” type of issues in this thread.

I have had a non-o multientry visa (based on family – I have a Thai wife and we have one child) for about a year now. Since my visa was about to expire, I decided to make the last visa run at Aranyaprathet & Poipet border to get a 90 days "extension". I’ve done this type of border run few times before, so nothing special here. But I had read the recent news about the new rules of the visa exceptions and the discussions related to that, so that made me little bit worried (even though the new rules should apply only for visa exceptions, right?). Just before entering the border I read some more and found threads in which people who had proper visas (tourist visa) had had problems at immigration and they had been questioned why they are coming/staying in Thailand. That made me even more worried. What if they don’t let me to return to Thailand?

I went through the Thai immigration and Cambodian immigration, and made my quick visit at other side of the border (about 30 seconds to be precise) and came back to the Thai immigration. Now things were supposed to get interesting. While waiting in the queue I saw some drama and yelling by one of the immigration officers to few Western guys. I didn’t hear what was going on, but eventually the guys were not allowed to enter Thailand (or at least they walked back). Maybe this had nothing to do with the new rules, but this didn’t make me feel too confident. Anyway, when I finally got to the officer, he started to go through my passport. At this point I have to tell that my passport includes one used tourist visa, about 5 used Cambodian visas, and also few visa exception stamps. I guess that makes me a suspect of some illegal work activities (I am not working, so I don’t have a work permit). The officer didn’t even raise his eyebrows, he just put the stamps and was about to give the passport back to me. Just before giving the passport back to me he took a final look at my passport, and finally asked “What are you doing in Thailand?” (this has never happened to me before). I just said that I am taking care of my baby. The officer smiled and gave the passport back to me. Relief. End of the story.

Everything went smoothly this time. But to be honest, I don’t feel too confident about the future. Can I still continue using a non-o multi entry visa or should I choose a different approach? As I said, for the eyes of immigration, I don’t have a good reason to stay in Thailand, since I am not working here. Having a family here will probably not be good enough reason for some immigration officer who is not having a good day.

What should I do next? Few options:

- I am about to travel to my home country in few months. Before I was planning to get a similar non-o multi entry visa, and continue using that. Normally I travel outside of Thailand every three months (1-2 week trips), so the 90 days rule is not that big problem for me. If I need to stay longer than 90 days, then I just do a quick visa run at Poi Pet (like I did last week). The non-o multi entry visa is almost perfect for my situation. But maybe not anymore?

- Perhaps I should apply for extension of stay based on marriage/family? To be honest I still don’t know all the requirements for this, but I guess I should be able to meet them (400K baht at bank etc.). I am just thinking that what if I will face the same problems? I will still sometimes make short trips outside of Thailand. The same immigration officers will be welcoming me. And in addition to that, now I must make visits to the immigration office at BKK, because of my extension of stay (90 reports or whatever?).

- Go back home (or somewhere else)? This is something that I perhaps need to do at some point anyway (child’s education etc.), but I was still hoping to continue to be here for at least about one year.

- Something else? Am I worrying too much?

-depe

[glegolo]

Dont expose yourself to these runs to the border...Why should you...??? Do as you were thinking!! get yourself a non immigrant O - 3 months validity, and during that last month of that VISA just go to your own immigration-office that you belong to and apply for an extension of stay based on marriage.

If you are over 50 years of age you can apply based on retirement instead which is 10 times easier alternative.... And by having an extension, you do not have to go through these stupid border-runs that you are doing now,,,

But you will have answers from people much better than me soon.. Good luck...

Glegolo

[depe]

Dont expose yourself to these runs to the border...Why should you...??? Do as you were thinking!! get yourself a non immigrant O - 3 months validity, and during that last month of that VISA just go to your own immigration-office that you belong to and apply for an extension of stay based on marriage.

If you are over 50 years of age you can apply based on retirement instead which is 10 times easier alternative.... And by having an extension, you do not have to go through these stupid border-runs that you are doing now,,,

But you will have answers from people much better than me soon.. Good luck...

Glegolo

Thanks. I need to go through the whole "extension of stay" process - it is still a bit unclear stuff for me. Before I was thinking that I will never need to use that approach, but now I need to reconsider. At least then I would never have to do these quick border runs at Poipet, which are a bit suspicious. The problem might still be my other trips and when I return from them...

I am still on my 30s, so the extension of stay (or visa) based on retirement is not an option.

[Jip99]

you have misunderstood the 'çrackdown'.

If you have a visa you will have no problem going to the border - it is the visa not required, 30 days at a time, that this is aimed at.

[glegolo]

Dont expose yourself to these runs to the border...Why should you...??? Do as you were thinking!! get yourself a non immigrant O - 3 months validity, and during that last month of that VISA just go to your own immigration-office that you belong to and apply for an extension of stay based on marriage.

If you are over 50 years of age you can apply based on retirement instead which is 10 times easier alternative.... And by having an extension, you do not have to go through these stupid border-runs that you are doing now,,,

But you will have answers from people much better than me soon.. Good luck...

Glegolo

Thanks. I need to go through the whole "extension of stay" process - it is still a bit unclear stuff for me. Before I was thinking that I will never need to use that approach, but now I need to reconsider. At least then I would never have to do these quick border runs at Poipet, which are a bit suspicious. The problem might still be my other trips and when I return from them...

I am still on my 30s, so the extension of stay (or visa) based on retirement is not an option.

It is easy for you, just by something called RE ENTRY PERMITS single costs 1.000 baht and multiple costs 3,800 baht You need these when you have extension of stay otherwise that extension will be cancelled the minute you cross the border.... But it will be so much easier for you

Glegolo

Edited May 19, 2014 by glegolo

[depe]

you have misunderstood the 'çrackdown'.

If you have a visa you will have no problem going to the border - it is the visa not required, 30 days at a time, that this is aimed at.

I have not misunderstood it. I know that it is aimed for the "visa exceptions" (=people entering the country without visa). When I heard these crackdown news, I wasn't worried a bit. Anyhow, there are few threads in which this issue is discussed - at least few people have had problems at immigration even they had a tourist visa. Maybe these are just exceptions, or maybe there was something suspicious with these guys, I don't know. Or maybe the problem is that they have had many tourist visas (=basically they are living in Thailand without a proper visa). I think we are living interesting times...

[depe]

Dont expose yourself to these runs to the border...Why should you...??? Do as you were thinking!! get yourself a non immigrant O - 3 months validity, and during that last month of that VISA just go to your own immigration-office that you belong to and apply for an extension of stay based on marriage.

If you are over 50 years of age you can apply based on retirement instead which is 10 times easier alternative.... And by having an extension, you do not have to go through these stupid border-runs that you are doing now,,,

But you will have answers from people much better than me soon.. Good luck...

Glegolo

Thanks. I need to go through the whole "extension of stay" process - it is still a bit unclear stuff for me. Before I was thinking that I will never need to use that approach, but now I need to reconsider. At least then I would never have to do these quick border runs at Poipet, which are a bit suspicious. The problem might still be my other trips and when I return from them...

I am still on my 30s, so the extension of stay (or visa) based on retirement is not an option.

It is easy for you, just by something called RE ENTRY PERMITS single costs 1.000 baht and multiple costs 3,800 baht You need these when you have extension of stay otherwise that extension will be cancelled the minute you cross the border.... But it will be so much easier for you

Glegolo

Thanks again. Just reading through the extension of stay & re-entry permit information. Probably this is the correct (or at least easier) way to go. Before I didn't mind to do a possible border run at Poipet, since I could do it while vising my wife's family who is from area near the border. But perhaps the extension of stay will help also with the possible new stricter rules at immigration.

[iainiain101]

I am in a similar situation, having had a Non Immigrant O based on children / marriage for 6 years now. I am not yet 50, so would have to do the extension based on marriage.

If I then buy the multiple re entry permit for 3,800, and will be out of the country almost certainly before every 90 day report, does this mean I would never need to do 90 day reports?

Thanks

Iain

[Mario2008]

You only report if you stay for 90 days in a row, without leaving the country. So you would not need to report.

Eevery time you re-enter Thailand the clock starts ticking from day 1 again.

[glegolo]

Yes, you got it right!! When leaving and than arriving to Thailand THAT is so to speak replacing the 90 day report for you..

Glegolo

[Jip99]

I am in a similar situation, having had a Non Immigrant O based on children / marriage for 6 years now. I am not yet 50, so would have to do the extension based on marriage.

If I then buy the multiple re entry permit for 3,800, and will be out of the country almost certainly before every 90 day report, does this mean I would never need to do 90 day reports?

Thanks

Iain

Each time you come back in the country the 90 days clock re-sets.

[iainiain101]

And in the past if I have run out of gin, i tend to pop up to Tachilek for a bottle or two, would this walk in and out of Burma reset the clock too?

[ParadiseLost]

I posted this in the other non-o thread running, it applies here too:

One potential negative side of non-o multi is the border run - not only are they tiring and frustrating but as recent changes are showing it can be up to the border official whether he allows you smooth passage, unless he thinks you are working illegally - perhaps less so in the case of o-a but I predict married guys (not working) are going to be suspects too...

I worked in Malaysia recently and a non-o was fine as I hardly ever stayed in Thailand the full 90 days and never did out-in runs. Fast forward to last week where I did an out-in run and I had to show money, marriage cert and stand on one leg while whistling Amazing Grace through my rear - but I did get in. Visiting your wife is by no means a 'human right' in this part of the world - you are more than welcome to take her with you if you don't like it...

I would avoid out-in crossings for a while, it may be difficult to prove you are not working.

[ukrules]

you have misunderstood the 'çrackdown'.

If you have a visa you will have no problem going to the border - it is the visa not required, 30 days at a time, that this is aimed at.

I have not misunderstood it. I know that it is aimed for the "visa exceptions" (=people entering the country without visa). When I heard these crackdown news, I wasn't worried a bit. Anyhow, there are few threads in which this issue is discussed - at least few people have had problems at immigration even they had a tourist visa. Maybe these are just exceptions, or maybe there was something suspicious with these guys, I don't know. Or maybe the problem is that they have had many tourist visas (=basically they are living in Thailand without a proper visa). I think we are living interesting times...

We know they are coming after people doing 'Out/In' visa runs to live in Thailand on a permanent basis.

They may be exceptions at the moment but on August 12th I have a feeling things will change.

[TomTao]

Instead of staying on the Non O multi visa, get the 12 month Non O, all you need to do then is post in or visit your local Immigration office to get a new permission to stay slip stapled in the back of your passport, no need to do a visa run.

[thaicookingchef]

You are being emotional and paranoiac.

There people are not here to think, they are just here to apply the rules given from above, so they will let you go as many times as you want and if they are not happy you explain them how it works and then it will be fine !

I will never be a female in front of these exmployees.

[kovaltech]

Dont expose yourself to these runs to the border...Why should you...??? Do as you were thinking!! get yourself a non immigrant O - 3 months validity, and during that last month of that VISA just go to your own immigration-office that you belong to and apply for an extension of stay based on marriage.

If you are over 50 years of age you can apply based on retirement instead which is 10 times easier alternative.... And by having an extension, you do not have to go through these stupid border-runs that you are doing now,,,

But you will have answers from people much better than me soon.. Good luck...

Glegolo

Thanks. I need to go through the whole "extension of stay" process - it is still a bit unclear stuff for me. Before I was thinking that I will never need to use that approach, but now I need to reconsider. At least then I would never have to do these quick border runs at Poipet, which are a bit suspicious. The problem might still be my other trips and when I return from them...

I am still on my 30s, so the extension of stay (or visa) based on retirement is not an option.

It is easy for you, just by something called RE ENTRY PERMITS single costs 1.000 baht and multiple costs 3,800 baht You need these when you have extension of stay otherwise that extension will be cancelled the minute you cross the border.... But it will be so much easier for you

Glegolo

The Non Immigrant O, family has some more advantages... ( 90 days, multiple entry to be precise )

I use it since 3 years now...

I keep my company in europe, no paper work to come in to Thailand, no proof to provide ( only a few documents when applying for the visa )no need for immigration to come and check if you are realy living together..

No need for residing in Thailand, no need for Thai drivers license...

If they ask, what are you doing in Thailand ?, building a house with my wife, taking care my family... everybody happy...

No hassle...

Edited May 20, 2014 by kovaltech

[Hardy99]

The new regulations are for those People who DO NOT HAVE a proper visa!

It has no effects on all those hold a valid visa and meet the requirements for renewal.

The rules to get any type of visa for Thailand are clear. All the border runners without

visa, or those not meet the requirements, or dont meet anymore (students..) will be picked.

[depe]

You are being emotional and paranoiac.

There people are not here to think, they are just here to apply the rules given from above, so they will let you go as many times as you want and if they are not happy you explain them how it works and then it will be fine !

I will never be a female in front of these exmployees.

Thanks for this valuable piece of guidance. If it was just me and my wife, I wouldn't care (just turn back at the border, go somewhere else, and call my wife to join me later). Now there is a possibility that I might not be able to go back to my child. I guess that brings out my "female emotional side"...

[depe]

I posted this in the other non-o thread running, it applies here too:

One potential negative side of non-o multi is the border run - not only are they tiring and frustrating but as recent changes are showing it can be up to the border official whether he allows you smooth passage, unless he thinks you are working illegally - perhaps less so in the case of o-a but I predict married guys (not working) are going to be suspects too...

I worked in Malaysia recently and a non-o was fine as I hardly ever stayed in Thailand the full 90 days and never did out-in runs. Fast forward to last week where I did an out-in run and I had to show money, marriage cert and stand on one leg while whistling Amazing Grace through my rear - but I did get in. Visiting your wife is by no means a 'human right' in this part of the world - you are more than welcome to take her with you if you don't like it...

I would avoid out-in crossings for a while, it may be difficult to prove you are not working.

Thanks for this information. This is something I was expecting. Although people here are saying that these new regulations do not apply for visa holders, I wouldn't be so sure. The official message seems to be that they are after people who are working in Thailand without work permit. Non-immigrant visa holders might fit into this category of suspicious people. It just requires an immigration officer having a bad day, and you will be whistling songs from your rear to get in the country. I think it will be no more border runs for me - at least until things get clearer.

[LivinLOS]

The new regulations are for those People who DO NOT HAVE a proper visa!

It has no effects on all those hold a valid visa and meet the requirements for renewal.

The rules to get any type of visa for Thailand are clear. All the border runners without

visa, or those not meet the requirements, or dont meet anymore (students..) will be picked.

This has already expended from visa exempt entries to tourist visas.. They have made it clear they wish to find people 'working illegally'..

Hence seeing more checks to ALL visa classes is perhaps logical.

[ubonjoe]

Instead of staying on the Non O multi visa, get the 12 month Non O, all you need to do then is post in or visit your local Immigration office to get a new permission to stay slip stapled in the back of your passport, no need to do a visa run.

I think you are writing about an extension stay based upon marriage not a non-o visa.

You do not get a new permit to stay every 90 days. You do report of staying over 90 days in the country it is not an extension. The slip they put in your passport is receipt for doing the report,

[MILT]

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You are being emotional and paranoiac.

There people are not here to think, they are just here to apply the rules given from above, so they will let you go as many times as you want and if they are not happy you explain them how it works and then it will be fine !

I will never be a female in front of these exmployees.

Chef, what are you getting on about?

Edited May 20, 2014 by MILT

[belg]

get an extention bases on marriage, end of story

[overherebc]

Don't agree with the earlier statement about the Thai driving licence, you said , no need for one. It's very easy to get if you have any Non Imm' visa and your own UK licence to show.

Re the officer shouting at the guys they were probably trying to come back in without going through Imm' on the other side, seen it happen a few times. Trying to save a whole page in the passport.

[misterphil]

You have the correct visa, why are you flapping? The checks on you were made when you applied for your non O already. When an immigration officer sees a non O visa its a green light for you. At Poipet a few months ago they stamped me in with 30 days when I have a non O too. I had to turn back and tell him I have a non O and its 90 days. Make sure he gave you your 90 days too.

[depe]

You have the correct visa, why are you flapping? The checks on you were made when you applied for your non O already. When an immigration officer sees a non O visa its a green light for you. At Poipet a few months ago they stamped me in with 30 days when I have a non O too. I had to turn back and tell him I have a non O and its 90 days. Make sure he gave you your 90 days too.

We'll see how it will be. The main topic of this thread is that is it possible that also the visa holders are going to face problems in the future when the immigration possibly wants to see some evidence that you are NOT working illegally in the country (and how can you prove that?).

I have always got my 90 days (both from Suvarnaphumi and Poipet) and I always check the stamp immediately after the officer gives my passport back. I've read about similar experiences as you had - they only give you 30 days.

[ParadiseLost]

You have the correct visa, why are you flapping? The checks on you were made when you applied for your non O already. When an immigration officer sees a non O visa its a green light for you. At Poipet a few months ago they stamped me in with 30 days when I have a non O too. I had to turn back and tell him I have a non O and its 90 days. Make sure he gave you your 90 days too.

Unflappable is my name After living here since 2005 I have had all the hassles at one time or another.

Since around 2010, African passport holders have been referred to 'the office' at borders (this is actually great as I avoid queues) where documents normally required for visa application are requested. Bank book is to have today's date, or cash 20k. My run last week was even more intense but I was prepared... Having a WP for Malaysia seems to calm them down quite a bit, I was not asked about working in Thailand.

My comments here are intended to highlight to non-o visa holders (or potential marry-for-visa readers) that out-in runs are not routine and could pose a serious threat to your future in Thailand. One year extension could become the only safe choice, if you are living here unemployed. All in my opinion which, last time I checked, is as valid as anyone else?

[Water Buffalo]

I hope they don't start getting tougher on people staying here with their families.

[Phuketboy]

you have misunderstood the 'çrackdown'.

If you have a visa you will have no problem going to the border - it is the visa not required, 30 days at a time, that this is aimed at.

I have not misunderstood it. I know that it is aimed for the "visa exceptions" (=people entering the country without visa). When I heard these crackdown news, I wasn't worried a bit. Anyhow, there are few threads in which this issue is discussed - at least few people have had problems at immigration even they had a tourist visa. Maybe these are just exceptions, or maybe there was something suspicious with these guys, I don't know. Or maybe the problem is that they have had many tourist visas (=basically they are living in Thailand without a proper visa). I think we are living interesting times...

You have misunderstood it. The crackdown is to stop people constantly using "TOURIST" visas as a means of staying here or working illegally. They want people to have the correct visa for their purpose. You have the correct visa based on family, but if you are married to a Thai as stated, and looking after your baby, then you should be on a marriage visa. Apparently, you can transfer your non-o to a marriage providing you have all the paperwork in order. Bottom line is make sure you have the correct visa and you will be fine.

Edited May 20, 2014 by Phuketboy