Bangkok Bank rejected my transfer - Am I screwed?

[Jingthing]

Neither the sending or receiving bank will tell you why.

Now that seems unusual.

So you don't really know it is a name matching issue.

The test deposits worked so that is evidence against that.

Yes this sounds bad.

It sounds a little cheeky but if it was me, I might consider trying the same thing AGAIN.

Unlikely to work, but if neither bank can/is willing to tell you the problem, who knows, maybe a glitch.

Edited May 20, 2014 by Jingthing

[Berkshire]

I do not quite understand this whole name issue. Why don't you just use your 2 names in the sending end and then enter all your 3 names as the recipient of the money?

The sender and receiver do not even need to be the same person. I can wire money from my bank to Barack Obama, Arnold Schwartzenegger or whomever I want to, as long as i know their bank's SWIFT BIC code and account number. Your sending bank should not be concerned about the transfer as long as you are not laundring money or sending it to fund terrorism. Bangkok Bank, however, may be quite strict that the recipient's name on their incoming side is correct.

Agree. When you transfer money, you have to specify the name on the receiving end. It could be your name spelled completely differently or someone else's name, for that matter. It's not like you're saying that you're sending money to "myself." Has the OP tried again? Ensuring correct acct number, exact name on the account, and other info? If it fails again, he should simply contact the local bank to ascertain the problem.

Edited May 20, 2014 by Berkshire

[Jingthing]

My take is that when the test deposits were verified, the link was set up with the SAME names as used on the later actual transfer attempt. That's how I do mine. Once the link is set up I have NEVER considered changing anything at all about the source and target banks, including names. Is that even possible on an established verified link ... I forget. So I doubt it is the names.

[RedQualia]

I've yet to set this up with Bangkok Bank, but it's on my list of things to do pretty soon. Please forgive me if I'm talking about something I have no experience with. That said, in the past, I have sent money to my daughter in the states from my US bank by designating her as a payee, and then just "paying her," much like using a check, and not specifically via "wire transfer." I have been thinking that I should be able to do the same with the Bangkok Bank ACH scheme. Just designate "myself at Bangkok Bank" as a payee, then "pay myself" from my alternate US bank account from time to time.

Is there any reason why this would not be possible, and/or, would it be a solution to the problem of the OP, and/or, did I misunderstand? Perhaps this is what he and others were doing in the first place. Again, yet to have experience with the stateside ACH approach to Bangkok Bank.

Oh... One other question: are there any other Thai banks that support the stateside ACH approach to transferring funds to a Thai bank account?

Thanks

[Jingthing]

I don't think it's the same thing as you describe.

Bangkok Bank is definitely the ONLY Thai bank that supports this ACH transfer thing.

[Pib]

I doubt it's a middle name/initial issue based on my personal experience in transfers to Bangkok Bank. Now my Bangkok Bank accounts have my full name to include the full middle name...but my U.S. accounts only only have my middle initial or no middle initial. I have went to Bangkok Bank before to get printouts of the transfers and the incoming transfers would sometimes show my first name, middle initial, and last name and other times just my first and last name, however, the transfers completed successfully. It seems to vary among my U.S. banks if they include my middle name in transfers. Bangkok Bank did not reject any incoming transfer due to a missing middle name/initial on the incoming transfer...as long as the account number, first name and last name matched everything was good to go. Expect there is another issue, quite possibly on the Sending bank end. People always seem to assume it's the receiving bank rejecting incoming money....heck, banks like receiving money.

[Pib]

Bangkok Bank is the only Thai bank with incoming ACH transfer capability; with all the other Thai banks you must use a usually pricey wire/SWIFT transfer.

[Jingthing]

I think at the least you deserve to be told what the problem was. But it seems to get that info you'll need to be very persistent.

[DrDave]

I do ACH transfers from our Bank of America account to our daughter's account as well as my wife's account at BKK bank - never had any problem.

These "external accounts" are setup in my BofA online system. The BofA source account is a joint account with my wife, and the destination accounts at BKK Bank obviously have account holder names that are very different than the name on the source account.

Also - when setting up these "external accounts", no test deposits were made - I simply set them up online (some sort of verification is done immediately online - probably just the routing number), and then started doing the transfers.

For all of the nickel and diming that BofA does regarding fees, the ACH transfers to accounts at BKK Bank have proven to be very efficient and problem-free. Cost is $3USD for a 3-day ACH transfer, more if you want it to go sooner.

[Jingthing]

That is really the very first time I have ever heard of someones establishing an ACH link to Bangkok Bank New York without going through the test deposit rigmarole! Interesting, but others, I think you will have to do that. Also keep in mind these links to BB New York are ONE WAY only. You can't push the money back from Thailand to your U.S. account, you can only push the money from your U.S. account to Bangkok Bank New York which then flows to Thailand (and theoretically your U.S. bank is not interested in that).

[JohnThailandJohn]

Why not just transfer the money from your Union Bank in the US to Bangkok Bank in NY? Most US Banks allow you to do transfers online for $1 to $3 to other US accounts regardless if it is going to you or somebody else. I do this often and never an issue. If it failed because you had the name wrong just try it again making sure you enter the NY Routing number and the account number for the Thai Bangkok Bank account.

http://www.bangkokbank.com/bangkokbank/personalbanking/dailybanking/transferingfunds/transferringintothailand/receivingfundsfromusa/pages/receivingfundsfromusa.aspx

Edit: No test deposit, and don't really think the name has to match 100% exactly. It is just like sending money to anyone else's account in the US ... lots of banks now actually contract this through Pop Money which I think has a $10k a month US limit. If you are trying to set up transfers that are to an account of yours outside your own bank then the do do a lot of verification.

Edited May 20, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[Jingthing]

Based on my read, he already had the ACH link established from his U.S. Bank to Bangkok Bank New York, and then tried an actual transfer and it failed.

[JohnThailandJohn]

Based on my read, he already had the ACH link established from his U.S. Bank to Bangkok Bank New York, and then tried an actual transfer and it failed.

Probably because he is trying to set up the transfer in a way that he is transferring to another external account OF HIS. All he needs to do is send the money to an external account and not claim the account is his.

https://www.ubt.com/personal-banking/online-mobile-banking/popmoney

Send Money

• Choose a Recipient: Decide if you’d like to pay them using their mobile phone number, email address or bank account information. When adding new recipients, save time and download their contact information directly from your email account or your phone, if using Mobile Banking.
• Choose an Amount: Enter the amount you want to pay and the date you want it paid. Note that there is a small, 50 cent fee when sending money through Popmoney
• Include a Message: Make your payment more personal by letting them know what the money is for.
• Notification: That’s it. This confirms that the money request has been sent, and your friend will receive a Popmoney pick-up message with your payment information. Popmoney will not send any cash until your friend accepts it.

[Jingthing]

No. That is not the problem. That is what we do with this Bangkok Bank thing. Transfer money from our U.S. banks by ACH to Bangkok Bank New York which flows to OUR accounts at Bangkok Bank Thailand. That's the POINT! Same person, sender and recipient, different U.S. banks as BBNY is a U.S. bank.

This is not Popmoney. It's very specific. It is an ACH transfer done after a LINK is established.

Edited May 20, 2014 by Jingthing

[JohnThailandJohn]

No. That is not the problem. That is what we do with this Bangkok Bank thing. Transfer money from our U.S. banks by ACH to Bangkok Bank New York which flows to OUR accounts at Bangkok Bank Thailand. That's the POINT! Same person, sender and recipient, different U.S. banks as BBNY is a U.S. bank.

Not sure what you are trying to say but it is simple to get his money from his Union Bank Account to Bangkok Bank in Thailand. He just needs to transfer the money as outlined above. There will be no harsh verification or need for trial sends UNLESS he sets it up as a transfer to HIS OWN external account. In other words, just transfer the money to another account without telling the bank it is your account.

Maybe I am missing something but this seemed to be his goal of getting money from his UB account to his BKK account in Thailand. I do this all the time but if I tried to set up the transfers as going to MY ACCOUNT (transfer to an external account of mine) then the verification process is much more rigid.

PopMoney is an ACH Transfer. PopMoney is simply a third party many US Banks contract through to send these payments.

Edited May 20, 2014 by JohnThailandJohn

[IMA_FARANG]

My U.S. bank that my Social Security direct deposit goes to is a small regional bank. It has assets of less than 100 million dollars which by today's banking standards makes them a "small" bank.

I have been fighting the problem of them blocking my direct transfer of my U.S. Social Security direct deposit tfrom that small local regional bank to Bangkok Bank for at least 3 months now.

The excuse my small regional bank uses is that they are attempting to comply with "new U.S. banking regulations" and "new security procedures now in effect".

No one seems to be able to specifically tell me exactly what these new U.S. banking regulations actually are nor can they say what the new security procedures that do not allow the direct transfer of my Social Security direct deposits in their bank to my Bangkok Bank account actually are.

In a private conversation with one of the lawyers for my small regional bank he told me this, "Frankly, the bank is stalling and trying to avoid any transfers outside the U.S. We simply do not know what the federal government will regard as the new standards for overseas transfers as regards "money laundering" any longer. Don't quote me directly, but frankly this bank is trying to avoid taking any action now that federal regulators might later regard as "money laundering"..

He added, "At our size, if we were fined by the U.S. government for "money laundering" violations, we simply could not pay a fine that the federal government might levy. We would simply have to go out of business and close down our bank. We could not handle paying such a fine, and therefore we are actively avoiding any overseas transactions if possible to do so.

"Frankly, we would rather lose dissatisfied customers, than have a problem with federal regulators on their interpretation of "money laundering" rules."

You can believe that or not, as you want. but he was speaking to me directly as a friend, and I think he was very sincere.

Such small local regional banks in the U.S. are scared to do anything the Federal government might interpret as "money laundering" and are simply trying to avoid any conflict with the federal banking authorities right now.

For you, the customer, that means you are up s- - t creek without a paddle, as the saying goes.

All you can do is try and find another bank, if you can.

Edited May 20, 2014 by IMA_FARANG

[DrDave]

Not sure what you are trying to say but it is simple to get his money from his Union Bank Account to Bangkok Bank in Thailand. He just needs to transfer the money as outlined above. There will be no harsh verification or need for trial sends UNLESS he sets it up as a transfer to HIS OWN external account. In other words, just transfer the money to another account without telling the bank it is your account.

Maybe I am missing something but this seemed to be his goal of getting money from his UB account to his BKK account in Thailand. I do this all the time but if I tried to set up the transfers as going to MY ACCOUNT (transfer to an external account of mine) then the verification process is much more rigid.

PopMoney is an ACH Transfer. PopMoney is simply a third party many US Banks contract through to send these payments.

From my experience, John is correct.

When setting up a "transfer to" account and claiming it as your own, then the names must match, and a test deposit verification will be done.

When setting up a "transfer to account" as being owned by someone else (even though it could actually be yours), very little verification will be carried out. Note that not all banks/brokerages will accommodate ACH transfers to accounts "owned by others".

[Headgame]

This should be simple. BKK Bank sets out its transfer procedure online. My BKK Bank account in TH has my full three names but funds are always sent to me with just two names. Funds being transferred from a US bank are not being wired outside the US but to the BKK Bank branch in NYC. Then funds are then deposited by the NYC branch to your local TH branch. Been doing this for four years with funds being wired from various US banks by various senders. Zero issues. Typically the ACH transfer method online is from your US account to the BKK branch in NYC. Using the NYC branch process also works with PayPal as well.

[KED]

I have also been caught in the "neverworld" of ACH transfers between my U.S. bank and Bangok Bank NY - for the first year all went smoothly and I used the ACH to make several transfers to buy a condo in Thailand. A year later, I made a smiliar transfer for about USD 5,000 but it failed to go through. After bouncing between banks and trying to determine what went wrong, Bangkok Bank announced that my name on my account was Kenneth XXX but the ACH transfer showed Ken XXX - and that was not acceptable. The most bizarre thing was that this had not been an issue for over a year.

I suggested the Bangkok Bank account be changed to match; however, they said the account name must match my passport. I contacted my U.S. bank but they had limited space for the name so had to truncate the name.

Finally, a supervisor advised that if I would sign a release of liablity to Bangkok Bank then they would allow the transfer but tat the letter was only good for one year. I made 2 transfers within the year and after the year - I contacted the same woman at Bangkok Bank to renew the letter. She ddn't remember the situation but after explaining - she said that Ken and Kenneth were close enough so there should not be a problem - I tried the transfer and it went through - inconsistant and frustrating in not knowing what to expect.

ACH transfers are much lower from U.S. banks but if you are in a tight financial situation - you could pay your U.S. bank to wire rather than ACH the funds and then the names do not have to match.

Good luck - and if you get the chance - let us know the outcome - you never know when others will have the same problem.

[DrDave]

. . .

"Frankly, we would rather lose dissatisfied customers, than have a problem with federal regulators on their interpretation of "money laundering" rules."

You can believe that or not, as you want. but he was speaking to me directly as a friend, and I think he was very sincere.

Such small local regional banks in the U.S. are scared to do anything the Federal government might interpret as "money laundering" and are simply trying to avoid any conflict with the federal banking authorities right now.

For you, the customer, that means you are up s- - t creek without a paddle, as the saying goes.

All you can do is try and find another bank, if you can.

I absolutely believe this, especially given the recent reports here on TV regarding some Thai banks/branches refusing to open accounts for Americans due the extra reporting to the US government now required.

In the event that you don't need to keep a portion of your SS payment in a US bank each month, I think you can have your benefit direct deposited to BKK Bank (NY) by the SSA. I think I recall someone here mentioning that they do that - worth checking.

On the other hand, if you need to keep some of your monthly benefit in a US bank, then I would look for a larger (e.g. international) bank, such as Chase, BofA, etc to receive your monthly benefit from the SSA. Make sure whatever bank you choose has sufficient online capabilities to allow you to effect an online ACH transfer to your BKK Bank account via BKK Bank (NY). Also note that some banks require an extra level of security when you request an online ACH transfer over a certain amount (usually a code sent to your cell phone via SMS, or a "SecureId" type of code generating device linked to your account. Make sure you have this in place before making your first transfer to BKK Bank.

[Hal65]

Good luck - and if you get the chance - let us know the outcome - you never know when others will have the same problem.

Will do. I already have another ACH transfer initiated, crossing my fingers that this one will go through. Unfortunately I can't use POPmoney because Union Bank doesn't use them (the link that was posted goes to some other bank with a similar sounding name. My bank's website is www.unionbank.com).

Since there is some confusion about what I'm doing, I'll clarify again:

I'm doing an ACH transfer. I'm able to do that because Bangkok Bank allows US account holders to use the routing number of their New York branch for the purposes of the ACH transfer. Unfortunately they seem to be quite picky about the names matching though, which is unusual because I do not believe name matches are required in the ACH system.

I went to a local Bangkok Bank branch today to ask them what the problem was, and although they saw their fees deducted from my account, they could not tell me the reason for the rejection.

I was in a branch close to the On Nut BTS and they told me I might have better luck at the Ekkamai branch because apparently that branch has more information about international transfers.

I guess it's worth checking out tomorrow. This whole experience has been truly eye-opening into the inefficiencies of a non-Western country. ( I don't mean that an elitist way, just as an outsider experiencing a new country)

Edited May 20, 2014 by Hal65

[Suradit69]

Sorry, I don't understand if the trial deposit worked then why the transfer didn't work, that is the purpose of trial deposits

I do transfers all the time to Bangkok Bank from my US Bank. Bangkok Bank uses my full middle name as shown on my passport, my US Bank only uses my middle initial, and not the full middle name and I have never had a problem

The two banks are dealing with numbers (accounts) not names

Something else is screwy. My fist guess is the Union Bank suddenly realized that the name of the bank you are transferring to is Bangkok Bank and they think that it is a foreign bank, despite the US routing number, so are not honoring your request for transfer

"My fist guess is the Union Bank suddenly realized that the name of the bank you are transferring to is Bangkok Bank and they think that it is a foreign bank, despite the US routing number, so are not honoring your request for transfer"

Or tried to do the transfer in baht. I've never had a problem with transfers via the NY branch. I'd say the problem probably has been created by the sender making an error or his US bank screwing up.

[Neocon]

OP – You said you asked a local branch. You need to phone Bualuang iBanking at 1333. If BBL told you the ACH transfer from Union was rejected they most definitely know and can tell you the precise reason why. Sometimes they need to phone their processing center on Rama III Rd. (BKK) for the answer, but it can be done if BBL staff chooses to follow through.

I’ve not experienced any iBanking transfer problems via ACH from my US bank to BBL. My US bank acct name is <First Name> <Middle Initial> <Last Name>. My BBL acct name is Mr <First Name> <Full Middle Name> <Last Name>. My BBL iBanking screen name is KHUN <First Name> <Full Middle Name>.

By chance, are you also trying to use your iBanking acct for direct deposit from a US gov’t source? Doing so is unauthorized by BBL. BBL eventually catches personal banking clients that try to use their Bualuang iBanking accts for direct deposit via ACH from the US.

[Balance]

If your transfer was rejected by BKK, then there should have been an advice send back to Union telling them it was rejected stating the reason for the rejection. It is important to talk to someone in the ACH department that deals with problems. Get every bit of documentation pulled together. Once you find the right person to talk with, try and get their email address. It is much better to sort these things out by email.

If you are sure that the problem is the middle name on the BKK account without it. But, if it is in your Passport they probably will not do it.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Really, a change to one or the other should be easy.

Not quite. The Thai bank will want the name to match your passport exactly, so it would have to be the American bank that changed the account name.

I believe, in the past, it's been said that in order to process BKK Bank transfers from the U.S. to Thailand, the names on the sending and receiving accounts need to be the same. Not sure how much sameness they require, exactly.

[Estrada]

Open a second account in the same name as your US account. You will need to explain that you do not want your full name as in your passport.

You can always close the account when you receive the money if you will no longer be receiving payments in that name.

[Jingthing]

Bangkok Bank will likely insist an exact passport match.

Initials should not be a problem.

For example, Bangkok Bank:

Henry Ford Carman

U.S. Bank:

Henry F. Carman

I just checked the name on the U.S. bank that I use. Exact match ... my full name spelled out.

Edited May 20, 2014 by Jingthing

[DrDave]

. . .

By chance, are you also trying to use your iBanking acct for direct deposit from a US gov’t source? Doing so is unauthorized by BBL. BBL eventually catches personal banking clients that try to use their Bualuang iBanking accts for direct deposit via ACH from the US.

I'm confused by this statement, as per Bangkok Bank's website, direct deposit from the US government to a Bangkok Bank account (via New York branch ACH) is actually encouraged. Is there a difference between a regular savings account, and an "iBanking" account that you mentioned. I was under the impression that Bualuang iBanking just gives you online access to your regular savings account.

The following is from BangkokBank<dotcom>/bangkokbank/personalbanking/dailybanking/transferingfunds/transferringintothailand/receivingfundsfromusa/pages/receivingfundsfromusa.aspx

Who can use it?

The service is available for holders of US bank accounts transferring funds to recipients with a Bangkok Bank account in Thailand. It is particularly useful for:

• Making funds transfers via the internet banking services of US banks
• Receiving payments from US government agencies or private organizations (Direct Deposit service)
• Receiving E-Commerce payments from online payment service providers in the US

. . .

Step-by-step Instructions

The following step-by-step instructions are available:

Advice to senders using US bank internet banking services Advice to Bangkok Bank customers receiving payments from US government agencies or private organizations (Direct Deposit) From March 1, 2013, the US Treasury Department will cease issuing paper cheques for federal benefits such as pensions, annuities or payroll, including Social Security and Veterans Affairs payments and will transfer benefits electronically via direct bank deposit.

If you currently receive your payments via cheque, you will need to notify your Federal Benefit Agency of the US account you wish to have your payments directly deposited into by March 1, 2013. As Bangkok Bank is the only provider in Thailand offering Direct Deposit services into a Thai bank account, you will need to request your US government agency or private organization route your payments into your Bangkok Bank account via the Bangkok Bank New York branch. If you currently reside in Thailand, you can apply for the service in person at any Bangkok Bank branch near you (except the micro branches).

PayPal Payments for International E-Commerce Operators in Thailand Fees

[hidavey]

I wonder how safe Bangkok bank will be if this political mess get's a lot worse ?

??

Nothing but the baht will drop like hell....

[Neocon]

. . .

By chance, are you also trying to use your iBanking acct for direct deposit from a US gov’t source? Doing so is unauthorized by BBL. BBL eventually catches personal banking clients that try to use their Bualuang iBanking accts for direct deposit via ACH from the US.

I'm confused by this statement, as per Bangkok Bank's website, direct deposit from the US government to a Bangkok Bank account (via New York branch ACH) is actually encouraged. Is there a difference between a regular savings account, and an "iBanking" account that you mentioned. I was under the impression that Bualuang iBanking just gives you online access to your regular savings account.

The following is from BangkokBank<dotcom>/bangkokbank/personalbanking/dailybanking/transferingfunds/transferringintothailand/receivingfundsfromusa/pages/receivingfundsfromusa.aspx

Who can use it?

The service is available for holders of US bank accounts transferring funds to recipients with a Bangkok Bank account in Thailand. It is particularly useful for:

• Making funds transfers via the internet banking services of US banks
• Receiving payments from US government agencies or private organizations (Direct Deposit service)
• Receiving E-Commerce payments from online payment service providers in the US

. . .

Step-by-step Instructions

The following step-by-step instructions are available:

Advice to senders using US bank internet banking services Advice to Bangkok Bank customers receiving payments from US government agencies or private organizations (Direct Deposit) From March 1, 2013, the US Treasury Department will cease issuing paper cheques for federal benefits such as pensions, annuities or payroll, including Social Security and Veterans Affairs payments and will transfer benefits electronically via direct bank deposit.

If you currently receive your payments via cheque, you will need to notify your Federal Benefit Agency of the US account you wish to have your payments directly deposited into by March 1, 2013. As Bangkok Bank is the only provider in Thailand offering Direct Deposit services into a Thai bank account, you will need to request your US government agency or private organization route your payments into your Bangkok Bank account via the Bangkok Bank New York branch. If you currently reside in Thailand, you can apply for the service in person at any Bangkok Bank branch near you (except the micro branches).

PayPal Payments for International E-Commerce Operators in Thailand Fees

For direct deposit from a US gov't source via ACH to BBL, BBL issues personal banking clients a special type of restricted access acct designated specifically and solely for receipt of direct deposit payments - a single acct may be used for funds receipt from multiple sources such as SSA, VA, OPM, etc. BBL uses a different acct numbering scheme for direct deposit-only accts. These restricted access direct deposit accts are not to be confused with BBL's traditional savings accts.

Also, BBL's direct deposit accts cannot be a joint acct - one name only. BBL instituted this policy as a fraud prevention measure due to past high baht losses from families sometimes for years not reporting the death of the annuitant. BBL usually tells prospective direct deposit acct clients that it's the US gov't's policy for the one name, no iBanking, no ATM card, no checks, and acct holders must present themselves monthly at a BBL branch to withdraw their money. Again, it's BBL's internal fraud prevention policy and not that of the US gov't. When BBL accepts receipt of direct deposit funds via ACH from the US gov't the liability for the proper handling of those funds then becomes BBL's.

Many BBL personal banking clients have two BBL accts - one direct deposit / one traditional savings. A client visits a local BBL branch to make an in-person withdrawal from their direct deposit acct, proves their identity, and BBL releases the funds. While at the same counter/teller the funds (in whatever amount) may then be deposited into a traditional savings acct which may be joint, have an ATM card, and iBanking.

I personally have my US gov't monthly annuity direct-deposited into my US bank and then I make online transfers as needed from my US bank via ACH to my BBL Bualuang iBanking acct and then use my BBL ATM card in Thailand. This method permits me more freedom to access my funds instead of having to schlep monthly to my local BBL branch to access my money. The one and only time I ever visited my local BBL branch was when I opened my BBL traditional savings acct and established iBanking privileges.