What every farang should know about Thai bureaucracy

[samran]

name change suggestion:

Thailand to; Maidailand.

Nearly every time I speak with bureaucrats, I hear 'mai dai' over and over.

I wouldn't be surprised if 'mai dai' is the first word Thais speak when coming out of the womb.

well knock me over with a feather. This thread has turned into a Thai bash. How frigging predictable.

[thamteak]

name change suggestion:

Thailand to; Maidailand.

Nearly every time I speak with bureaucrats, I hear 'mai dai' over and over.

I wouldn't be surprised if 'mai dai' is the first word Thais speak when coming out of the womb.

Really, I've almost always experienced the opposite here.

For example last week I opened up a BAY 2.35% interest account. I don't work here so don't have a WP. The clerk didn't know if I could, so she checked with the manager. The manager wasn't sure so they rang the head office. After they gave all my details - rental contract, 5 yr driving license, non-imm visa, they got the green light to do it.

It was the same in Kasikorn 8 years ago when I wanted to open an account on a Tourist Visa.

Perhaps it's because of you, that you always get told 'Mai dai'.

[ATF]

name change suggestion:

Thailand to; Maidailand.

Nearly every time I speak with bureaucrats, I hear 'mai dai' over and over.

I wouldn't be surprised if 'mai dai' is the first word Thais speak when coming out of the womb.

Well that says it all. They don't even say Mai Dai Krup or Kho-toad Mai Dai Krup or Jing Jing Laew Tham Mai Dai Krup they just say Mai Dai. Considering your condescending attitude and even saying the Governor is a dunce and your Poo Yai Bahn is a numbskull. You must be a really big hit in town.

[samran]

name change suggestion:

Thailand to; Maidailand.

Nearly every time I speak with bureaucrats, I hear 'mai dai' over and over.

I wouldn't be surprised if 'mai dai' is the first word Thais speak when coming out of the womb.

Well that says it all. They don't even say Mai Dai Krup or Kho-toad Mai Dai Krup or Jing Jing Laew Tham Mai Dai Krup they just say Mai Dai. Considering your condescending attitude and even saying the Governor is a dunce and your Poo Yai Bahn is a numbskull. You must be a really big hit in town.

Indeed, I was even sympathetic to his first post, but now, not so much.

[thamteak]

Looks like you're the problem boomerangutang.

Don't worry, there are a good few farang here who find life just as difficult due to being like you.

Maybe move to someplace that you fit in better?

[boomerangutang]

name change suggestion:

Thailand to; Maidailand.

Nearly every time I speak with bureaucrats, I hear 'mai dai' over and over.

I wouldn't be surprised if 'mai dai' is the first word Thais speak when coming out of the womb.

Well that says it all. They don't even say Mai Dai Krup or Kho-toad Mai Dai Krup or Jing Jing Laew Tham Mai Dai Krup they just say Mai Dai. Considering your condescending attitude and even saying the Governor is a dunce and your Poo Yai Bahn is a numbskull. You must be a really big hit in town.

That's what I hear very often; 'mai dai.' Just reporting what I hear. You can shoot the messenger if it makes you feel better. The sad part is, even after they say 'mai dai' several times, I still sometimes find a way to make things happen. Maybe the bureaucrats knew it all along (and were hiding it from me, or were too lazy to do anything outside their little boxes), so I just had to use my wits and/or some more helpful person to find a reasonable solution.

Sometimes the best way to deal with Thai bureaucracy, is to do nothing at all. But wait, before you shoot me, let me way that's what several Thais have told me (so you can shoot them).

Perhaps calling the governor 'a dunce' was a bit harsh. I asked him about a visa issue, and three times after that, he asked if I was married. Each time I answered 'no.' The fourth time he asked, I asked if his sister was available. He didn't broach that question any more.

[thamteak]

Perhaps calling the governor 'a dunce' was a bit harsh. I asked him about a visa issue, and three times after that, he asked if I was married. Each time I answered 'no.' The fourth time he asked, I asked if his sister was available. He didn't broach that question any more.

I honestly can't see why life here is so difficult for you.

[boomerangutang]

Perhaps calling the governor 'a dunce' was a bit harsh. I asked him about a visa issue, and three times after that, he asked if I was married. Each time I answered 'no.' The fourth time he asked, I asked if his sister was available. He didn't broach that question any more.

I honestly can't see why life here is so difficult for you.

That's ok. You can't be expected to be apprised of what I've had to deal with the past 15 years - certainly not from a few written sentences. I can't gauge your life either.

Things have been good and bad and in-between. I mention some pitfalls herein this thread. If what I mention makes life a bit easier for just one farang, then it's been worthwhile.

[AYJAYDEE]

Perhaps calling the governor 'a dunce' was a bit harsh. I asked him about a visa issue, and three times after that, he asked if I was married. Each time I answered 'no.' The fourth time he asked, I asked if his sister was available. He didn't broach that question any more.

I honestly can't see why life here is so difficult for you.

That's ok. You can't be expected to be apprised of what I've had to deal with the past 15 years - certainly not from a few written sentences. I can't gauge your life either.

Things have been good and bad and in-between. I mention some pitfalls herein this thread. If what I mention makes life a bit easier for just one farang, then it's been worthwhile.

perhaps your advice might make his life more difficult. calling someone a dunce?

[luk AJ]

I also would like to share an odd experience. After living together with my Russian GF for 10 years in ThaiIland, we decided to marry. We went to the Thai office and got some papers to fill in as homework. On the paper was printed Mr (nationality) will marry miss ... from thailand. As she was Russian I scratched out "Thailand" and replaced the wording with "Russian". Application was denied because nobody can change a printed text on official papers. It took us another 2 years to get finally maried!

[Bluetongue]

Hands up who relishes going into a Government Office or calling them anywhere. I have had a lifetime of working two jobs, one in the bureaucracy in multiple Departments going up the greasy pole and one in private enterprise to keep my sanity. I lean

towards the theory that a nation has a bureaucracy to serve a few functions, sure, but mainly as an easy way of redistributingtax back into the economy via salaries and other spending. I imagine that not one of my earnest endeavours was remembered fiveminutes after I was out the door, nor those of thousands of colleagues.

[AYJAYDEE]

Hands up who relishes going into a Government Office or calling them anywhere. I have had a lifetime of working two jobs, one in the bureaucracy in multiple Departments going up the greasy pole and one in private enterprise to keep my sanity. I lean

towards the theory that a nation has a bureaucracy to serve a few functions, sure, but mainly as an easy way of redistributingtax back into the economy via salaries and other spending. I imagine that not one of my earnest endeavours was remembered fiveminutes after I was out the door, nor those of thousands of colleagues.

but the public would notice WITHOUT those endeavours being performed.

Edited May 22, 2014 by AYJAYDEE

[ATF]

Perhaps calling the governor 'a dunce' was a bit harsh. I asked him about a visa issue, and three times after that, he asked if I was married. Each time I answered 'no.' The fourth time he asked, I asked if his sister was available. He didn't broach that question any more.

Boomer, Obviously you have never read The Stranger by Albert Camus. I recommend you pick up a copy. What I believe the Guv trying to do is make you say yes you were married. In your eyes you have to me married to be married. His conception was different. If you had just said "Yes Guv". Everything would have been fine. Marriage Cert "Oh my dog ate it". That'll do nicely.

[boomerangutang]

perhaps your advice might make his life more difficult. calling someone a dunce?

I didn't call anyone a dunce, unless you refer to the reference in this thread, whichis 10 years after 'the guy' (there is that better) left office. I know all about being diplomatic, and had a diplomatic passport for half my life. I once charmed a Burmese farmer in to putting down his machete he had raised over my head when he caught me napping in his bamboo sala (I'm quite sure he was going to split my head open and rob me. There was no one else for miles.). I know how to play the charm game. However, even charm can get overdone, like when a bureaucrat knowingly feeds you false information (because that's what she thinks you want to hear) ....while smiling in your face.

but the public would notice WITHOUT those endeavours (bureaucracy) being performed.

Not necessarily. Case in point: Thailand has not had a government for months. Is anyone lamenting them not going to their offices? Granted, they're politicians, so they're not strictly bureaucrats, but they're the bureaucrats' bosses. Thankfully, without a government, Thailand has not pursued the 2.2 trillion gift to Chinese commerce (for high speed rail line connecting Bkk to China), and Thailand has not continued to suffer from the abysmally bad policies aimed at feather-bedding the Shinawatre clan.

[boomerangutang]

Perhaps calling the governor 'a dunce' was a bit harsh. I asked him about a visa issue, and three times after that, he asked if I was married. Each time I answered 'no.' The fourth time he asked, I asked if his sister was available. He didn't broach that question any more.

Boomer, Obviously you have never read The Stranger by Albert Camus. I recommend you pick up a copy. What I believe the Guv trying to do is make you say yes you were married. In your eyes you have to me married to be married. His conception was different. If you had just said "Yes Guv". Everything would have been fine. Marriage Cert "Oh my dog ate it". That'll do nicely.

I must have skipped class the day they taught to deftly lie to get ahead.

Seriously though, I appreciate your post. I should hone up on Albert Camus' 'The Stranger.' Ok, I'm going to go out on a limb here and ask a rhetorical question, and accpt I'll be pilloried, but here goes:

'Why can't Asians tell it like it is? Why Obfuscate so often?'

I once met with some Japanese jeans dealers to negotiate a deal for a quantity of used Levis. Afterwards, my translator told me, "You strange Americans. You just jump right in and start talking business. If you were Japanese, you would take several days of golf and meals - before mentioning any business, even though that's what you arranged to talk about from your initial contact."

I retorted, "maybe if they offered prettier girls, I would have taken a few days of fudging around before mentioning business."

[JLCrab]

Maybe the Japanese buyers were waiting for you to supply them with the women.

[ATF]

I must have skipped class the day they taught to deftly lie to get ahead.

Seriously though, I appreciate your post. I should hone up on Albert Camus' 'The Stranger.' Ok, I'm going to go out on a limb here and ask a rhetorical question, and accpt I'll be pilloried, but here goes:

'Why can't Asians tell it like it is? Why Obfuscate so often?'

I once met with some Japanese jeans dealers to negotiate a deal for a quantity of used Levis. Afterwards, my translator told me, "You strange Americans. You just jump right in and start talking business. If you were Japanese, you would take several days of golf and meals - before mentioning any business, even though that's what you arranged to talk about from your initial contact."

I retorted, "maybe if they offered prettier girls, I would have taken a few days of fudging around before mentioning business."

Boomer you silver tongued bastard. I bet you charm the birds out of the trees! Ok Asians do not see things in black and white, just one huge grey blob. If your son murdered someone you would turn him in. That's the last thing Asians would do. Business deals in Asia are mostly done on faith because as you are well aware the legal system does not always function at it's full capacity. So they want to feel they can trust you first. Hope this answers your rhetorical questions.

[JLCrab]

I worked with one of the Chinese ministries in the early 1990's. As their chief engineer told me, they would put out a bid expecting either high quality - high price or lower quality - lower price. The Japanese would bid high quality - lower price and get the deal.

Then 6-12 months into the deal the Japanese would inform the Chinese that they either will be providing lower quality or will need more money to deliver the higher quality but by then the project was too far along to do anything else.

[Berkshire]

I worked with one of the Chinese ministries in the early 1990's. As their chief engineer told me, they would put out a bid expecting either high quality - high price or lower quality - lower price. The Japanese would bid high quality - lower price and get the deal.

Then 6-12 months into the deal the Japanese would inform the Chinese that they either will be providing lower quality or will need more money to deliver the higher quality but by then the project was too far along to do anything else.

Interesting. That's pretty much how US government contracting works. As soon as a company wins the contract, they will have this thing called "cost overruns."

[ABCer]

Hi, boomerangutang. I agree with your OP, unreservedly.

Fail to understand why it shows the underlying feeling of resentment or dissatisfaction?

Personally I, let's say ABCerangutang, am in favor of described system.

Traffic violation = 200 bt.

Slapped the bastard on a face = 500 bt plus...

Need a bureaucrat to do something = 1000 bt (or more?).

It is such an easy life! Use the System, swim with the current... What's the big deal?

And one more question to all TV members here:

How in the name of God are they (Thais) going to change such an all pervasive system?

By Suthep's 400 honest men?

By a Coup?

By a new Election?

By painting their faces Red? Or Yellow? Or Red, White and Blue?

What is the price of Democracy here? 300 bt per vote?

The only difference in the West is the price... With similar results.

This is exactly why I say - Thais do not know Democracy, never will have it, do not need it. Thailand works!

[barrym1234]

I have been reading a lot on these forums over the past 3 weeks.As a recent visitor, ( my 5th. visit) my wife & I decided that we should look into retiring to Thailand. I am 68, she is 53 with Australian degrees in Nursing, Chiropractic, as well as Teaching diploma for English, Maths & Science. Our main concern is that we have a 14 yr. old son, who has not yet finished his schooling here in Australia. My question is how would he adapt, & would he find it hard to be accepted at this age. He is quite tall for his age. ( 6feet.)

All advice would be greatly appreciated.

[boomerangutang]

I have been reading a lot on these forums over the past 3 weeks.As a recent visitor, ( my 5th. visit) my wife & I decided that we should look into retiring to Thailand. I am 68, she is 53 with Australian degrees in Nursing, Chiropractic, as well as Teaching diploma for English, Maths & Science. Our main concern is that we have a 14 yr. old son, who has not yet finished his schooling here in Australia. My question is how would he adapt, & would he find it hard to be accepted at this age. He is quite tall for his age. ( 6feet.)

All advice would be greatly appreciated.

Sounds like you're both farang. You'll probably wind up in a tract home, which could be ok. An apartment would likely be too small. If you're open to teaching English, to stay busy and meet people, it's possible to do so at a hospital or for some biz employees, though pay is doubtful.

Your son probably doesn't speak Thai, but that could be alright, if you get him in an International school - though I've heard they're not cheap. I suggest all 3 of you hone up on Thai language. You could try learning it Thai style with a Thai teacher (the alphabet, classes of letters, the tones, etc) but you'll learn conversational Thai a lot quicker if you just start learning words and how to string them together in simple sentences. With Thai style teaching, you could learn academic-level Thai in about 30 to 45 years. In contrast, with 1 or 2 phrase books and some casual assistance, you could be getting around at markets in a matter of weeks.

[Grindting]

Unless you're expats with no choice due to work, sounds like madness pulling a 14 year old out of school, away from all his mates and everything he knows and dumping him into a 3rd world society where he doesn't speak the language or fathom the culture. Don't even consider it. Can't you wait 4 years before he's off to university? You will potentially ruin his future taking him out now

[ABCer]

I have been reading a lot on these forums over the past 3 weeks.As a recent visitor, ( my 5th. visit) my wife & I decided that we should look into retiring to Thailand. I am 68, she is 53 with Australian degrees in Nursing, Chiropractic, as well as Teaching diploma for English, Maths & Science. Our main concern is that we have a 14 yr. old son, who has not yet finished his schooling here in Australia. My question is how would he adapt, & would he find it hard to be accepted at this age. He is quite tall for his age. ( 6feet.)

All advice would be greatly appreciated.

If you are talking about genuine retirement for self and wife - good move! You will not regret it.

But by all means leave your son back home with relatives (Grandparents, aunties etc.).

This is what I would have done in your shoes.

barrym1234, you are in a wrong place here. You need an advice on moving to Thailand. Ask Mods to move your post.

Edited May 22, 2014 by ABCer

[Bluetongue]

Hands up who relishes going into a Government Office or calling them anywhere. I have had a lifetime of working two jobs, one in the bureaucracy in multiple Departments going up the greasy pole and one in private enterprise to keep my sanity. I lean

towards the theory that a nation has a bureaucracy to serve a few functions, sure, but mainly as an easy way of redistributingtax back into the economy via salaries and other spending. I imagine that not one of my earnest endeavours was remembered fiveminutes after I was out the door, nor those of thousands of colleagues.

but the public would notice WITHOUT those endeavours being performed.

work in the hiring and firing section of a large government Department not delivering a direct service to the public you will notice that is simply not the case, entire slabs of work can be stopped overnight and guess what - no one notices