Another Dual Citizen Question

[m02]

Anyone familiar with the US government's position on the following scenario:

Dad US, Mother Thai. Marriage registered with both Thai and US authorities.

Born in Thailand, birth registered with US consulate.

Traveled to US on US passport when still an infant. Had US passports until age of 12.

Has lived in Thailand since a child, as mother didn't want to stay in the US. Dad traveled back and forth.

Parents bought land and built a home before he was born. This is the home he has lived in all his life while in Thailand.

His folks are still married.

While still a minor his mom wanted to stop having to go to the immigration office all the time to register him as an alien living in Thailand. She had his dad sign the paper work that would give him Thai citizenship. The immigration people wrote something in his passport saying he was now a Thai citizen, but his dad didn't know about it for a long time afterward.

His last US passport is expired.

He is on the house registry.

He has not served in the Thai military because of extensive injuries to his legs due to a motorcycle accident.

He obtained a Thai passport a few years ago when he needed to obtain a passport quickly to work on a film documentary for several months in Laos and Cambodia.

He considers himself both a US citizen and a Thai.

He is now an adult. He wants to go back to the States to visit his grandmother who was recently injured, and perhaps stay.

The question is does his parents signing the Thai citizenship request jeopardize his US citizenship? If he applies for a new US passport here in Thailand, and includes his old passport with the rest of his documents, will he be in any danger of having his file flagged and official action being taken to revoke his US citizenship?

[vinny]

See Dual Citizenship FAQ and Possible Loss of U.S. Citizenship and Dual Nationality.

[m02]

The real question here is not so much what is written but how the consulate and state department staff actually handle such situations. It is nice that one of the guidelines indicates that as long as he states that there was no intent to give up his citizenship that everything will be fine. However, does anyone have direct experience with what happens when government officials are actually faced with a situation like this?

What actual risk does he run by handing in his old passport with the note written in it by Thai immigration that he is now a Thai citizen, admits the fact that he holds a Thai passport, and is registered on the house registery as a Thai. It only takes one anal retentive beauracrat to get his file flagged and to have his right to citizenship dependent on legal hearings and court appearances.

While it is preferable and more straight forward to get everything straightened out here, there are other ways to get to the States and simply apply once there for a new passport. It is more of a hassle to do so, but doesn't run the above risk.

I had just hoped that someone might have had a similar experience and is familiar with the current attitude of the US government officials. Failing that is there any law firm in Thailand that deals with matters like this?

[Dragonman]

The real question here is not so much what is written but how the consulate and state department staff actually handle such situations. It is nice that one of the guidelines indicates that as long as he states that there was no intent to give up his citizenship that everything will be fine. However, does anyone have direct experience with what happens when government officials are actually faced with a situation like this?

What actual risk does he run by handing in his old passport with the note written in it by Thai immigration that he is now a Thai citizen, admits the fact that he holds a Thai passport, and is registered on the house registery as a Thai. It only takes one anal retentive beauracrat to get his file flagged and to have his right to citizenship dependent on legal hearings and court appearances.

While it is preferable and more straight forward to get everything straightened out here, there are other ways to get to the States and simply apply once there for a new passport. It is more of a hassle to do so, but doesn't run the above risk.

I had just hoped that someone might have had a similar experience and is familiar with the current attitude of the US government officials. Failing that is there any law firm in Thailand that deals with matters like this?

I am not an American Immigration Lawyer, but have many years experience in International Law. The Government does not like the idea of dual nationality, and officials will sometimes try and make it awkward. There will be no Court Cases, etc. however as this has already been fought out in The Supreme Court, with the Government being defeated under The Constitution. If you wish to consult an American Immigration Lawyer however, check this out www.thailand-lawyer.com/meetus.html

I have no connection to the firm, or in fact any firm in Thailand.

[morphic]

Don't worry about the US revoking your citizenship, they will not. The US doesn't like to lose citizens and they will not have a problem with dual citizenship with Thailand, esepcially as it was aquired as a minor. For the US to revoke your citizenship you would have had to do something very wrong, like actually fighting against the US, not just being potentially liable to do military service for a foreign country, particuliarly one which regular conducts joint military exercises with the US.

The only minor complication could be from the IRS rather than the passport section. As a US citizen you are theoretically required to make US tax filings on all of your worldwide income. But unless you had earned substantially in excess of $80,0000 per year then even this would not be something to worry about.

So just go and collect your new passport.

[m02]

Appreciate the feedback. I agree that everything would seem to indicate that the situation is as morphic indicates. We did call the consulate anonymously and spoke to a Thai employee who basically said the same thing. Its just that I've had personal experiene on different matters with those 'awkward' type US government officials Dragonman mentions, and it is best to just avoid such situations if possible. I think just for our peace of mind we'll run it by a law firm who's familiar with immigration issues, and then if they agree we'll go ahead and do the application here. I'll let you know how it turns out.

[Gumballl]

For all others farangs who are expecting new additions to their family, consider getting the child a Thai passport and a passport from your country at the earliest possible time. It will probably save lots of hassles later.

My daughter was approved for US Citizenship just hours before we got her a Thai passport. Now she has two passports. Later in life, she will not have to "choose" which she wishes to keep. As far as I'm concerned, as long as she is a minor, my wife and I will keep renewing her passports when needed, and when she is an adult, she can do it herself.

She'll hopefully be able to enjoy the best of both countries.

[m02]

Update: The US consulate at Chiangmai was informed of the situation and had no problem with either whatever was written in his passport by Thai immigration or the fact that he had a Thai passport. He provided his birth certificate and all the other documentation; his father went along just in case but outside of clearing up a minor misunderstanding regarding the reasons for a signed statement, his presence wasn't really necessary. The State Dpt. issued the new passport and had it in Chiangmai in about two weeks.

Morphic was correct regarding the US government's attitude, the consulate staff had no interest in giving him a bad time and were very helpful in getting everything done correctly. Some stories have happy endings.