International alarm mounts over Thai coup

[Roadman]

Scathing report in The Australian Financial Review ( afr.com.au )

And a spot on report in the LA Times.

"To choose the Thaksin regime is to guarantee the death of democracy for Thailand's foreseeable future"

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-0529-thompson-thai-coup-20140529-story.html

<EDIT> Are you serious? I have to pay $1:90 a day to read your article.

My link is free and open to all which is not dissimilar to what democracy will be like in Thailand after reform.

Also another very good opinion piece "Mai Pen Rai no longer" by Voranai Vanijaka on some other Thai site. Some well balanced opinions starting to appear which has been sadly lacking in regards to Thailand for a very long time.

[brewsterbudgen]

Scathing report in The Australian Financial Review ( afr.com.au )

And a spot on report in the LA Times.

"To choose the Thaksin regime is to guarantee the death of democracy for Thailand's foreseeable future"

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-0529-thompson-thai-coup-20140529-story.html

<EDIT> Are you serious? I have to pay $1:90 a day to read your article.

My link is free and open to all which is not dissimilar to what democracy will be like in Thailand after reform.

Also another very good opinion piece "Mai Pen Rai no longer" by Voranai Vanijaka on some other Thai site. Some well balanced opinions starting to appear which has been sadly lacking in regards to Thailand for a very long time.

Voranai has been a voice of reason for some time now. Hopefully his piece is read widely. Some on this forum would also do well to read it as well.

[craigt3365]

Scathing report in The Australian Financial Review ( afr.com.au )

And a spot on report in the LA Times.

"To choose the Thaksin regime is to guarantee the death of democracy for Thailand's foreseeable future"

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-0529-thompson-thai-coup-20140529-story.html

<EDIT> Are you serious? I have to pay $1:90 a day to read your article.

My link is free and open to all which is not dissimilar to what democracy will be like in Thailand after reform.

Also another very good opinion piece "Mai Pen Rai no longer" by Voranai Vanijaka on some other Thai site. Some well balanced opinions starting to appear which has been sadly lacking in regards to Thailand for a very long time.

We can't post a directly link, but it is on the Bangkok Post's website now. Excellent article written by one of the better journalists in Thailand. IMHO.

A must read.

[djjamie]

Scathing report in The Australian Financial Review ( afr.com.au )

And a spot on report in the LA Times.

"To choose the Thaksin regime is to guarantee the death of democracy for Thailand's foreseeable future"

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-0529-thompson-thai-coup-20140529-story.html

<EDIT> Are you serious? I have to pay $1:90 a day to read your article.

My link is free and open to all which is not dissimilar to what democracy will be like in Thailand after reform.

"It has been a general historical truth that regimes bringing order at least make a democratic transition possible. The converse is seldom true. Permissive regimes tend to lead to crackdowns that doom enlightened rule."

Interesting that he thinks the Yingluck regime was permissive, despite also saying Thaksin would brook no opposition. Of course, many would agree, because there are few democratic governments which would allow the PDRC to get away with what they did. In any case, this article offers few facts, just the standard assertions about what a bad guy Thaksin is. But the Thaksin hasn't been in power for 8 years and the chances of him becoming premier again, coup or no coup, were close to zero.

I have a very low opinion of Thaksin but I think articles like this are ridiculously simpleminded, no more than caricatures of the actual situation. That's why they're few and far between, I suppose, as very few serious analysts agree. It's instructive to compare this to the article written for the NYT by Duncan McCargo recently. One of the most respected scholars in the field, vs an "old hand" who probably has a rose tinted view of the military regimes in the 60s and 70s and acquaintances within the Thai ruling class. In any case, what I most object to is the idea that opposition to military rule = supporting Thaksin. Not only because many who object were harsh critics of his rule (particularly when he was having people gunned down in the streets, a measure which many current PDRC supporters likely backed at the time) - but also because, principles aside, it's not yet clear that a coup weakens his hand much in the long run.

"But the Thaksin hasn't been in power for 8 years"

He was in power until the 9th of December 2013 and then in a caretaker unelectable leader capacity until the 22nd of May when the democracy restoration team came in to remove the unelected dictator.

Now he has been removed he is trying to set up HIS government in exile in Cambodia.

[mojorison]

Scathing report in The Australian Financial Review ( afr.com.au )

And a spot on report in the LA Times.

"To choose the Thaksin regime is to guarantee the death of democracy for Thailand's foreseeable future"

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-0529-thompson-thai-coup-20140529-story.html

<EDIT> Are you serious? I have to pay $1:90 a day to read your article.

My link is free and open to all which is not dissimilar to what democracy will be like in Thailand after reform.

Also another very good opinion piece "Mai Pen Rai no longer" by Voranai Vanijaka on some other Thai site. Some well balanced opinions starting to appear which has been sadly lacking in regards to Thailand for a very long time.

The LA times article is propaganda. At one point he states that to not support the coup, you must support Thaksin. What a load of BS... and this guy calls himself a scholar. He writes:

"To justify opposition to the coup requires support for Thaksin, a man who would brook no opposition, not even from the palace, and who would rule with an iron hand as long as he — or those he chooses to succeed him — lives."

Back to Bali with you please...

[mikemac]

Scathing report in The Australian Financial Review ( afr.com.au )

Call off the coup ! Call off the coup ! Put the Shin regime back in power and return the arms to the redshirts ! There has been a scathing report in the Australian Financial Review ! Call off the coup !

[fab4]

Scathing report in The Australian Financial Review ( afr.com.au )

And a spot on report in the LA Times.

"To choose the Thaksin regime is to guarantee the death of democracy for Thailand's foreseeable future"

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-0529-thompson-thai-coup-20140529-story.html

<EDIT> Are you serious? I have to pay $1:90 a day to read your article.

My link is free and open to all which is not dissimilar to what democracy will be like in Thailand after reform.

Also another very good opinion piece "Mai Pen Rai no longer" by Voranai Vanijaka on some other Thai site. Some well balanced opinions starting to appear which has been sadly lacking in regards to Thailand for a very long time.

We can't post a directly link, but it is on the Bangkok Post's website now. Excellent article written by one of the better journalists in Thailand. IMHO.

A must read.

The inside front page of the BP is worth reading also - nice to see a bit of backbone shown.

[englishoak]

Scathing report in The Australian Financial Review ( afr.com.au )

Call off the coup ! Call off the coup ! Put the Shin regime back in power and return the arms to the redshirts ! There has been a scathing report in the Australian Financial Review ! Call off the coup !

At least its free to report as it finds or wishes,

[bigbamboo]

Scathing report in The Australian Financial Review ( afr.com.au )

Call off the coup ! Call off the coup ! Put the Shin regime back in power and return the arms to the redshirts ! There has been a scathing report in the Australian Financial Review ! Call off the coup !

At least its free to report as it finds or wishes,

I'm not happy with the attempts to stop people saying what they think but at least they aren't sued for a billion baht if they do.

[fab4]

Scathing report in The Australian Financial Review ( afr.com.au )

Maybe you should try standing and reading a book, silently.

Lone woman arrested for staging silent protest in front of Gaysorn Plaza, Ratchaprasong

BANGKOK: -- A lone woman was arrested after she wore a mask with "people" word on it and stood silently in front of Gaysorn Plaza at the Ratchaprasong Intersection in an apparent symbolic protest against the coup.

The woman, who appeared in her 50s, did not say any word. She just flashed a victory sign and stood there for about five minutes. She then removed the mask and walked toward the Pratunam Intersection.

She was arrested by police and taken away on a police motorcycle. Initially, she refused to allow police to take her into custody, saying she was expressing her right as a Thai citizen.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/730741-thailand-live-sunday-01-jun-2014/page-2#entry7913626

[Emptyset]

Scathing report in The Australian Financial Review ( afr.com.au )

And a spot on report in the LA Times.

"To choose the Thaksin regime is to guarantee the death of democracy for Thailand's foreseeable future"

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-0529-thompson-thai-coup-20140529-story.html

<EDIT> Are you serious? I have to pay $1:90 a day to read your article.

My link is free and open to all which is not dissimilar to what democracy will be like in Thailand after reform.

Also another very good opinion piece "Mai Pen Rai no longer" by Voranai Vanijaka on some other Thai site. Some well balanced opinions starting to appear which has been sadly lacking in regards to Thailand for a very long time.

I'm in broad agreement with the Voranai piece, but he's been writing stuff like that every week for three years or so. Not sure how that's comparable to the LA Times piece. Voranai asks people to try and understand and listen to others instead of shouting them down or dismissing them with crude epithets, whereas the guy in the LA Times just seems to be saying people should support the military and not much more than that. Didn't see much "balance" there at all.

[citizen33]

And rest assured those people reading the books make up a 25% minority that DON'T support the coup ergo DON'T support reconciliation.

They will be left behind.

We are living in a state that has banned any talk that can be twisted to be against the Junta and it's coup.

The survey that said 75% of the people supported the Coup must be true and as you say that the people who said that they did support the coup are against reconciliation then that must be true as well. there is only one truth under the Military Junta.

I think Jamie must know what he's saying is ridiculous by continually repeating this 75% business. The poll was for martial law anyway, not a coup, and even in the most democratic times, when were polls thought to be conclusive indicators of public mood on here anyway? I remember when polls predicting a PT win at the last election were continually disparaged as paid for etc. But in any case, even if the poll was reasonably accurate as a gauge of what the wider population was thinking, support for martial law doesn't necessarily imply support for a coup. It wasn't clear what the military's intentions were then.

It might be instructive for Jamie to follow up the survey with a focus group in Khon Kaen central market. For reasons of both validity and safety I suggest that he assume the mantle of neutral researcher.

[binjalin]

Scathing report in The Australian Financial Review ( afr.com.au )

And a spot on report in the LA Times.

"To choose the Thaksin regime is to guarantee the death of democracy for Thailand's foreseeable future"

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-0529-thompson-thai-coup-20140529-story.html

<EDIT> Are you serious? I have to pay $1:90 a day to read your article.

My link is free and open to all which is not dissimilar to what democracy will be like in Thailand after reform.

"It has been a general historical truth that regimes bringing order at least make a democratic transition possible. The converse is seldom true. Permissive regimes tend to lead to crackdowns that doom enlightened rule."

Interesting that he thinks the Yingluck regime was permissive, despite also saying Thaksin would brook no opposition. Of course, many would agree, because there are few democratic governments which would allow the PDRC to get away with what they did. In any case, this article offers few facts, just the standard assertions about what a bad guy Thaksin is. But the Thaksin hasn't been in power for 8 years and the chances of him becoming premier again, coup or no coup, were close to zero.

I have a very low opinion of Thaksin but I think articles like this are ridiculously simpleminded, no more than caricatures of the actual situation. That's why they're few and far between, I suppose, as very few serious analysts agree. It's instructive to compare this to the article written for the NYT by Duncan McCargo recently. One of the most respected scholars in the field, vs an "old hand" who probably has a rose tinted view of the military regimes in the 60s and 70s and acquaintances within the Thai ruling class. In any case, what I most object to is the idea that opposition to military rule = supporting Thaksin. Not only because many who object were harsh critics of his rule (particularly when he was having people gunned down in the streets, a measure which many current PDRC supporters likely backed at the time) - but also because, principles aside, it's not yet clear that a coup weakens his hand much in the long run.

"But the Thaksin hasn't been in power for 8 years"

He was in power until the 9th of December 2013 and then in a caretaker unelectable leader capacity until the 22nd of May when the democracy restoration team came in to remove the unelected dictator.

Now he has been removed he is trying to set up HIS government in exile in Cambodia.

funny you have left behind your 15 Rules of Democracy

[citizen33]

Scathing report in The Australian Financial Review ( afr.com.au )

And a spot on report in the LA Times.

"To choose the Thaksin regime is to guarantee the death of democracy for Thailand's foreseeable future"

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-0529-thompson-thai-coup-20140529-story.html

<EDIT> Are you serious? I have to pay $1:90 a day to read your article.

My link is free and open to all which is not dissimilar to what democracy will be like in Thailand after reform.

Also another very good opinion piece "Mai Pen Rai no longer" by Voranai Vanijaka on some other Thai site. Some well balanced opinions starting to appear which has been sadly lacking in regards to Thailand for a very long time.

I'm in broad agreement with the Voranai piece, but he's been writing stuff like that every week for three years or so. Not sure how that's comparable to the LA Times piece. Voranai asks people to try and understand and listen to others instead of shouting them down or dismissing them with crude epithets, whereas the guy in the LA Times just seems to be saying people should support the military and not much more than that. Didn't see much "balance" there at all.

I welcome articles from both sides, but I thought the W. Scott Thompson piece was light on history, and also on that subject about which we cannot speak. It seems that Thompson was an official under the Ford and Reagon administrations, who later switched across to academia and consulting. His main speciality appears to be the Philippines and he has been involved in projects on corruption - which admittedly could be relevant here. I can't say I've ever really come across his scholarly papers on S.E. Asian studies.

Perhaps the most important thing here though is that the TVF regulars have found their champion. I did not think there were any credible academic experts working in S.E. Asian Studies who were pushing the 'it is just about Thaksin's corruption' line, but we have now found somebody!

Edited June 1, 2014 by citizen33

[Roadman]

Scathing report in The Australian Financial Review ( afr.com.au )

And a spot on report in the LA Times.

"To choose the Thaksin regime is to guarantee the death of democracy for Thailand's foreseeable future"

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-0529-thompson-thai-coup-20140529-story.html

<EDIT> Are you serious? I have to pay $1:90 a day to read your article.

My link is free and open to all which is not dissimilar to what democracy will be like in Thailand after reform.

Also another very good opinion piece "Mai Pen Rai no longer" by Voranai Vanijaka on some other Thai site. Some well balanced opinions starting to appear which has been sadly lacking in regards to Thailand for a very long time.

The LA times article is propaganda. At one point he states that to not support the coup, you must support Thaksin. What a load of BS... and this guy calls himself a scholar. He writes:

"To justify opposition to the coup requires support for Thaksin, a man who would brook no opposition, not even from the palace, and who would rule with an iron hand as long as he or those he chooses to succeed him lives."

Back to Bali with you please...

To which he is quite correct. The coup removed a democratically elected party belonging to who? Last time I looked it was the next in the strangulation (and that is the key word as the pathetic excuse for democracy in Thailand prior to the coup was Thaksin's way or no way) line belonging to Thaksin. And that is it not what all that are against the coup have their t!ts in a tangle over? The removal of a democratically elected party.

Edited to add caretaker governance removed to be politically (no pun intended) correct.

Edited June 1, 2014 by Roadman

[umbanda]

Seems like the military is actually getting things done...and people are listening... is that a bad thing?

I agree. The General is getting into retirement. If elections are call soon, and he will be a candidate for an independent party...Who knows?...A strong hand in power may be good for Thailand...

[Roadman]

Scathing report in The Australian Financial Review ( afr.com.au )

And a spot on report in the LA Times.

"To choose the Thaksin regime is to guarantee the death of democracy for Thailand's foreseeable future"

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-0529-thompson-thai-coup-20140529-story.html

<EDIT> Are you serious? I have to pay $1:90 a day to read your article.

My link is free and open to all which is not dissimilar to what democracy will be like in Thailand after reform.

Also another very good opinion piece "Mai Pen Rai no longer" by Voranai Vanijaka on some other Thai site. Some well balanced opinions starting to appear which has been sadly lacking in regards to Thailand for a very long time.

I'm in broad agreement with the Voranai piece, but he's been writing stuff like that every week for three years or so. Not sure how that's comparable to the LA Times piece. Voranai asks people to try and understand and listen to others instead of shouting them down or dismissing them with crude epithets, whereas the guy in the LA Times just seems to be saying people should support the military and not much more than that. Didn't see much "balance" there at all.

The balance for the Morrison article I was considering more to the constant reporting of the innocence of all of Thaksin's parties over the last years. The constant barrage of the democratic correctness from non Thai and Thai journalists to the world media has been very one sided. Hence the reference to the "sadly lacking for a long time".

The Voranai article is a very well written item that thankfully perhaps unlike a lot of us on here including myself, he has been able to write without politicial prejudice and balance the truth. Something that a lot on here including myself should try harder to do.

[Emptyset]

I'm in broad agreement with the Voranai piece, but he's been writing stuff like that every week for three years or so. Not sure how that's comparable to the LA Times piece. Voranai asks people to try and understand and listen to others instead of shouting them down or dismissing them with crude epithets, whereas the guy in the LA Times just seems to be saying people should support the military and not much more than that. Didn't see much "balance" there at all.

I welcome articles from both sides, but I thought the W. Scott Thompson piece was light on history, and also on that subject about which we cannot speak. It seems that Thompson was an official under the Ford and Reagon administrations, who later switched across to academia and consulting. His main speciality appears to be the Philippines and he has been involved on projects on corruption - which admittedly could be relevant here. I can't say I've every really come across his scholarly papers on S.E. Asian studies.

Perhaps the most important thing here though is that the TVF regulars have found their champion. I did not think there were any credible academic experts working in S.E. Asian Studies who were pushing the 'it is just about Thaksin's corruption' line, but we have now found somebody!

I doubt many people - if anyone - involved with Thai studies has ever heard of him. Certainly few had heard of Philip J Cunningham before he started writing his articles in the BKK Post as an Asia specialist. Also usually a fellow called Steven B. Young pops up at times like this attacking Thaksin and defending whatever measures are taken against him and his supporters. Apparently he lived in Thailand in the 60s and his father was friends with Sarit. These are academics, yes, but none specialize in Thailand.

There are sometimes people who are not familiar with Thailand who write "pro-red" articles, of course. Barney Frank seems to be the latest. I respect Frank but I suspect the influence of PR/lobbyist types in this sort of article. Or maybe not. I don't know, but I feel the same about it as I feel about the above LA Times article. It's just something written by someone clearly not very familiar with the situation representing only one side of the story.

Although at the moment I definitely lean more towards Frank's side than towards the LA Times chap, I think I'd just rather read an article by an expert who's very familiar with both Thaksin and the current situation. That's why I pointed out the recent McCargo article in the NYT, it's exemplary in that respect. He co-wrote an excellent book about how Thaksin's networks had gained power within various institutions and exploited and corrupted them. Apart from Pasuk and Baker's work, there isn't a better book in English detailing his time in office, both the positive stuff, and his shameless abuses of power. He also wrote a very good book on Chamlong and the 1992 protests. Chamlong still phones him now, apparently, despite their political differences.

As I say, much rather read something by someone that speaks and reads fluent Thai and has written valuable books & papers for 20 + years on the subject, rather than some of these people that just seem to be popping up now and writing articles without much of a background in what they're writing about.

Edited June 1, 2014 by Emptyset

[heybruce]

And a spot on report in the LA Times.

"To choose the Thaksin regime is to guarantee the death of democracy for Thailand's foreseeable future"

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-0529-thompson-thai-coup-20140529-story.html

<EDIT> Are you serious? I have to pay $1:90 a day to read your article.

My link is free and open to all which is not dissimilar to what democracy will be like in Thailand after reform.

Also another very good opinion piece "Mai Pen Rai no longer" by Voranai Vanijaka on some other Thai site. Some well balanced opinions starting to appear which has been sadly lacking in regards to Thailand for a very long time.

The LA times article is propaganda. At one point he states that to not support the coup, you must support Thaksin. What a load of BS... and this guy calls himself a scholar. He writes:

"To justify opposition to the coup requires support for Thaksin, a man who would brook no opposition, not even from the palace, and who would rule with an iron hand as long as he or those he chooses to succeed him lives."

Back to Bali with you please...

To which he is quite correct. The coup removed a democratically elected party belonging to who? Last time I looked it was the next in the strangulation (and that is the key word as the pathetic excuse for democracy in Thailand prior to the coup was Thaksin's way or no way) line belonging to Thaksin. And that is it not what all that are against the coup have their t!ts in a tangle over? The removal of a democratically elected party.

Edited to add caretaker governance removed to be politically (no pun intended) correct.

The coup also eliminated an election when that democratically elected party was at a low point in popularity. The election would have undoubtedly shown a significant drop in support for the PTP, and possibly initiated its death spiral, all in a democratic manner.

Of course we'll never know now. When elections are eventually held the memory of the coup will overshadow the memory of Yingluck's incompetence in office. When you make your opponent a martyr you make him, and her, more powerful

No problem, if the people vote wrong again, we can just have another coup, right?

[Dr Bruce]

Scathing report in The Australian Financial Review ( afr.com.au )

And a spot on report in the LA Times.

"To choose the Thaksin regime is to guarantee the death of democracy for Thailand's foreseeable future"

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-0529-thompson-thai-coup-20140529-story.html

<EDIT> Are you serious? I have to pay $1:90 a day to read your article.

My link is free and open to all which is not dissimilar to what democracy will be like in Thailand after reform.

Scott W Thompson is a close friend of Bill Klausner. Hardly un-biased reporting here.

Thompson said in 2012:-

"Of course, it would be convenient were he [Thaksin Shinawatra] to disappear from the scene, and there are some who hope they can accomplish just that. It’s wishful thinking; he’s well-guarded and not stupid."

Taken by many to say that he wished for an assassination. Thompson now makes his money by charging new governments large sums of money to try to return assets, he has not been too successful so far. Maybe he is hoping for a contract from the Junta.

[smutcakes]

I just cannot understand how the combined forces of the US embassy, Australian Embassy, all the other embassies who have criticized the coup, nearly 99.9% of international media, why they just cannot understand the situation like the majority of TVF members.

Coup = Good.

Perhaps the US embassy needs to put some assets up in the bars around Issan,CM and CR to touch base with some of the more opinionated coup supporters on here, so they can give the US intelligence department the heads up on where they are going wrong.

[Emptyset]

I'm in broad agreement with the Voranai piece, but he's been writing stuff like that every week for three years or so. Not sure how that's comparable to the LA Times piece. Voranai asks people to try and understand and listen to others instead of shouting them down or dismissing them with crude epithets, whereas the guy in the LA Times just seems to be saying people should support the military and not much more than that. Didn't see much "balance" there at all.

The balance for the Morrison article I was considering more to the constant reporting of the innocence of all of Thaksin's parties over the last years. The constant barrage of the democratic correctness from non Thai and Thai journalists to the world media has been very one sided. Hence the reference to the "sadly lacking for a long time".

The Voranai article is a very well written item that thankfully perhaps unlike a lot of us on here including myself, he has been able to write without politicial prejudice and balance the truth. Something that a lot on here including myself should try harder to do.

Agree that Thaksin's abuses of power & his self-serving use of people for his own gain shouldn't be ignored when discussing this topic. However, at least we can still openly discuss Thaksin. It would be nice if the current bunch could be subjected to equal scrutiny. However, broadly agree that elites of *all* stripes have been using people for their own gain, and the sooner this is widely recognized, the better... but I'm not counting on it any time soon. Think some I mentioned previously on this thread are realizing this, but it's likely others are just becoming further entrenched in their views and loyal to their "team".

Edited June 1, 2014 by Emptyset

[Crushdepth]

Scathing report in The Australian Financial Review ( afr.com.au )

And a spot on report in the LA Times.

"To choose the Thaksin regime is to guarantee the death of democracy for Thailand's foreseeable future"

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-0529-thompson-thai-coup-20140529-story.html

<EDIT> Are you serious? I have to pay $1:90 a day to read your article.

My link is free and open to all which is not dissimilar to what democracy will be like in Thailand after reform.

"It has been a general historical truth that regimes bringing order at least make a democratic transition possible. The converse is seldom true. Permissive regimes tend to lead to crackdowns that doom enlightened rule."

Interesting that he thinks the Yingluck regime was permissive, despite also saying Thaksin would brook no opposition. Of course, many would agree, because there are few democratic governments which would allow the PDRC to get away with what they did. In any case, this article offers few facts, just the standard assertions about what a bad guy Thaksin is. But the Thaksin hasn't been in power for 8 years and the chances of him becoming premier again, coup or no coup, were close to zero.

I have a very low opinion of Thaksin but I think articles like this are ridiculously simpleminded, no more than caricatures of the actual situation. That's why they're few and far between, I suppose, as very few serious analysts agree. It's instructive to compare this to the article written for the NYT by Duncan McCargo recently. One of the most respected scholars in the field, vs an "old hand" who probably has a rose tinted view of the military regimes in the 60s and 70s and acquaintances within the Thai ruling class. In any case, what I most object to is the idea that opposition to military rule = supporting Thaksin. Not only because many who object were harsh critics of his rule (particularly when he was having people gunned down in the streets, a measure which many current PDRC supporters likely backed at the time) - but also because, principles aside, it's not yet clear that a coup weakens his hand much in the long run.

"But the Thaksin hasn't been in power for 8 years"

He was in power until the 9th of December 2013 and then in a caretaker unelectable leader capacity until the 22nd of May when the democracy restoration team came in to remove the unelected dictator.

Now he has been removed he is trying to set up HIS government in exile in Cambodia.

Cambodia has publicly declined to host the criminal fugitive former government in exile. I look forward to it being established in a sympathetic democracy such as Togo or Cote 'd Ivoire, in the near future. Claiming that a government in exile would be set up is a huge Robert Amsterdam PR fail. Despite the obligatory anti-coup rhetoric from western democracies, they know a despot when they see one and won't be hosting Thaksin's "government in exile". Ever. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

And yes, I'm open to bets on the matter.

[Emptyset]

Scathing report in The Australian Financial Review ( afr.com.au )

And a spot on report in the LA Times.

"To choose the Thaksin regime is to guarantee the death of democracy for Thailand's foreseeable future"

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-0529-thompson-thai-coup-20140529-story.html

<EDIT> Are you serious? I have to pay $1:90 a day to read your article.

My link is free and open to all which is not dissimilar to what democracy will be like in Thailand after reform.

Scott W Thompson is a close friend of Bill Klausner. Hardly un-biased reporting here.

Thompson said in 2012:-

"Of course, it would be convenient were he [Thaksin Shinawatra] to disappear from the scene, and there are some who hope they can accomplish just that. It’s wishful thinking; he’s well-guarded and not stupid."

Taken by many to say that he wished for an assassination. Thompson now makes his money by charging new governments large sums of money to try to return assets, he has not been too successful so far. Maybe he is hoping for a contract from the Junta.

I know some of William Klausner's work, though not particularly well, and generally thought he was to be respected as a serious scholar. Where does the idea that he's biased come from? I'd much rather an article by him on the current situation rather than Scott W Thompson. But as far as I know he hasn't really said much about the current conflict, though what he has said would quite possibly be interpreted as "pro red". As he is an anthropologist & spent a considerable period studying life in Issan villages, he tends not to be so concerned with the goings on in BKK, and has mostly focused on the changing nature of rural life and the part that plays in what's been going on.

This from a fairly recent article that discusses his views:

"Klausner said rural Thailand, especially the Northeast and North, had changed dramatically, while urbanites continued to hang on to stereotyped views about rural people as "uneducated" and "provincial". Equally crucial was the fact that rural folk "realised they have been looked down upon for so long". "The villagers want respect. They want others to recognise their dignity and not to be looked down upon and stereotyped as uneducated water buffaloes.

The villagers are no longer uneducated and they're no longer provincial. They are connected, aware and understanding of the world outside," Klausner said. Five decades ago, rural villagers got information in the form of tales and news from Isaan folk performers such as 'mor lam' singers, or from visiting relatives who returned from Bangkok. Today they have mobile phones, televisions, satellite dishes and "even the odd computer in the village".

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/08/22/politics/Rural-Thais-are-no-longer-ignorant-Klausner-30136343.html

Edited June 1, 2014 by Emptyset

[AZBill]

A number of academics at our university are posting this frequent Thai-type of response to the outside world.

Amongst several messages, one of which is included in the message below, is the same as I'm hearing from my Thai colleagues and friends, that is, "the outside world just cannot understand the depth of the Thai mind and culture to be able to understand our situation; therefore they have no right to comment on it."

ImageUploadedByThaivisa Connect Thailand1400839294.644500.jpg

Well the one thing I glean about Thai culture from this comment is they don't understand freedom if speech! No right? Hahaha! Yeah democracy is right around the corner! Just ask your military dictators!

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Thailand

[dhrobertson]

The BBC's Jonathan head is at it again

According tp the World Service. Bangkok sytreet are fully of soldiers confronting anti-coup demostrators!

I sthat true? I was on Sukhumvit, Silom, Satorn yesterday and saw nothing amiss?

Anybody confirm the veracity of the reporting?

[djjamie]

And a spot on report in the LA Times.

"To choose the Thaksin regime is to guarantee the death of democracy for Thailand's foreseeable future"

http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-0529-thompson-thai-coup-20140529-story.html

<EDIT> Are you serious? I have to pay $1:90 a day to read your article.

My link is free and open to all which is not dissimilar to what democracy will be like in Thailand after reform.

"It has been a general historical truth that regimes bringing order at least make a democratic transition possible. The converse is seldom true. Permissive regimes tend to lead to crackdowns that doom enlightened rule."

Interesting that he thinks the Yingluck regime was permissive, despite also saying Thaksin would brook no opposition. Of course, many would agree, because there are few democratic governments which would allow the PDRC to get away with what they did. In any case, this article offers few facts, just the standard assertions about what a bad guy Thaksin is. But the Thaksin hasn't been in power for 8 years and the chances of him becoming premier again, coup or no coup, were close to zero.

I have a very low opinion of Thaksin but I think articles like this are ridiculously simpleminded, no more than caricatures of the actual situation. That's why they're few and far between, I suppose, as very few serious analysts agree. It's instructive to compare this to the article written for the NYT by Duncan McCargo recently. One of the most respected scholars in the field, vs an "old hand" who probably has a rose tinted view of the military regimes in the 60s and 70s and acquaintances within the Thai ruling class. In any case, what I most object to is the idea that opposition to military rule = supporting Thaksin. Not only because many who object were harsh critics of his rule (particularly when he was having people gunned down in the streets, a measure which many current PDRC supporters likely backed at the time) - but also because, principles aside, it's not yet clear that a coup weakens his hand much in the long run.

"But the Thaksin hasn't been in power for 8 years"

He was in power until the 9th of December 2013 and then in a caretaker unelectable leader capacity until the 22nd of May when the democracy restoration team came in to remove the unelected dictator.

Now he has been removed he is trying to set up HIS government in exile in Cambodia.

funny you have left behind your 15 Rules of Democracy

It is not 15 rules it is 15 principles.

Someone that supports democracy (not just elections) would know that.

I rest my case.

[brewsterbudgen]

The BBC's Jonathan head is at it again

According tp the World Service. Bangkok sytreet are fully of soldiers confronting anti-coup demostrators!

I sthat true? I was on Sukhumvit, Silom, Satorn yesterday and saw nothing amiss?

Anybody confirm the veracity of the reporting?

[djjamie]

I just cannot understand how the combined forces of the US embassy, Australian Embassy, all the other embassies who have criticized the coup, nearly 99.9% of international media, why they just cannot understand the situation like the majority of TVF members.

Coup = Good.

Perhaps the US embassy needs to put some assets up in the bars around Issan,CM and CR to touch base with some of the more opinionated coup supporters on here, so they can give the US intelligence department the heads up on where they are going wrong.

A reminder;

Governments do not adhere to political ideologies, they simply use them when and where profitable. So rest assured just as Egypt was not a coup, Thailand is. Just as the west celebrate Thaksins "Thaksinomics" they condemned Chavez' "Chavismo." It would appear that "democracy" is only ok if it is used to co-opt the population for the interests of Wall Street and London.

Turn your back on the West, and it doesn't matter what socioeconomic strategy you employ, you are a ruthless autocrat whose days are numbered. Embrace the west and as you can see you will be welcomed, forgiven, atrocities ignored all for the sake of profits. Thailand = bad coup. So one could assume that the countries you mention support a democratic system right? YET Thaksin tried to ramrod a US free trade agreement through bypassing democratic principles. He literally bypassed parliament to push it through. The USA didn't spout anti democrat then. They were watering at the mouth in anticipation of the business opportunities and profit. Democracy when it suits them.

Look at thaksin in 1991 during that coup. He didn't denounce it. He partied with the coup makers and celebrated it. Why? Profits. The birth of Shin corp and billions of baht flowed in thanks to that coup. 2006. He lost the potential to make billions. He hated that coup. 2014. He lost the potential to keep making billions. He hated that one to.

Trust me. The West don't care about this coup. They perceive they care because of the underlying interests and the facade they have to present to the world. It is a glue to hold the fragile western system in place and this is part of the show.

Of course you can take comfort in the narrative the west are spouting because it suits your agenda. You will defend it as democratic and right when all along you are being played for as a fool. $$$ my friend. That is why thaksin is loved by the west. He bent his morales in 1991 for money and the western political machine saw themselves in him. $$$ mate. Rest assured however if thaksin was a Chavez and snubbed his nose up at the west this coup would be like the Egyptian coup. A coup that restored democracy.

Don't be played the fool. Stop this roundabout and embrace reconciliation and democracy. Not at the end of a gun like under the UDD want to do it and did it for the last 6 months, but to approach reform and democracy under the guidance of the "good coup" that is making a difference. As much as you hate it and will kick and scream because an unelected criminal fugitive is not controlling the country from afar, as much as the deaths of innocents have ceased, as much as normalcy is being restored and as much as the news articles are highlighting weapons that are being removed from criminals hands, criminals being arrested and people being paid for rice. Smile be happy and know the west hate it just as thaksin did in in 2006. Because he lost the potential to make billions.

Democracy is a tool. In the wrong hands it is evil. Thaksin showed that.

The General will reform that tool to allow the next person to not hit himself in the hand next time when nailing the principles of democracy into the subframe of morale governance.

May peace and reconciliation be with you. Don't be left behind in the bitter landscapes that is the enemy of reconciliation.

Edited June 1, 2014 by djjamie

[sumtingwong]

There are some here that say a head of state can only be removed by an election, no matter what crime he commits.

So obviously, they would have been against a war/coup to remove Hitler as well.