International alarm mounts over Thai coup

[sumtingwong]

What international alarm? The silence at home and abroad is deafening.

Even my fellow Old Boy Jonathan Head must be having trouble justifying his expenses claims at the moment.

I'd concede that most of the international comment won't translate into tangible action, but it is rumbling on, even permeating down to regional newspapers. Here is an Op-Ed by a former Congressman who clearly doesn't like what has happened.

http://www.pressherald.com/opinion/Barney_Frank__It_s_time_to_stand_up_to_Thai_regime.html?searchterm=Thailand

He is probably worried for his boyfriends there.

He finally admits that the Democrat policies caused the subprime mortgage financial crisis.

Representative Barney Frank, a Massachusetts Democrat and GSE cheerleader, concluded in 2010: “I hope by next year we’ll have abolished Fannie and Freddie. ... It was a great mistake to push lower-income people into housing they couldn’t afford.”

[djjamie]

In all seriousness you're comparing Field Marshal Omar Hassan Ahmad Al-Bashir to Yingluck?!

I despair at the paucity of your arguments but credit your perseverance!

Both elected by the people.

Yes. As is every democratically elected leader. And?

Ummmmm, read my comprehensive post on that one….It is above mate...

[JAG]

Sumtinwong a landslide is a landslide and the two biggest in thai history were both by first thaksin and the second by yinglucknd that's a fact!

Like it or not it's just that simple and another dose will be handed out at the next election.

Facxt: less than 50% is not a majority, like it or not. So the majority of the Thais did not vote for the Shinawatra dictatorship, fact.

Fact: You dont understand the difference between direct democracy and representative democracy, fact. You should probably go take a politics course.

Oh no please no, he will just be another one banging on and on about "principles of democracy", crayoning all over the forum!

Let's just accept that he is trying to justify replacing an elected government with a military government.

His enthusiasm is quite endearing really. I'm sure it will be recognised.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Edited June 2, 2014 by JAG

[Luger2]

What international alarm? The silence at home and abroad is deafening.

Even my fellow Old Boy Jonathan Head must be having trouble justifying his expenses claims at the moment.

I'd concede that most of the international comment won't translate into tangible action, but it is rumbling on, even permeating down to regional newspapers. Here is an Op-Ed by a former Congressman who clearly doesn't like what has happened.

http://www.pressherald.com/opinion/Barney_Frank__It_s_time_to_stand_up_to_Thai_regime.html?searchterm=Thailand

I wonder what Congressman Frank has to say about Thaksin's supporters:

[sjaak327]

They are election results, not propaganda figures. Who the people vote for next time was the whole point of this discussion. Let me refresh your memory and quote the post that started this:

"As I've written before, when you make a martyr of an opponent, you make your opponent more powerful. Military coups have now made two members of the Shinawatra family into martyrs, and when elections return this will become clear. Too bad there couldn't have been an election right after the PTP had demonstrated years of incompetence and was at a low point in popularity.

All of the enthusiastic supporters of the coup should think about that. By supporting the coup you are supporting an action that increases the long-term power and influence of the Shinawatra family."

But of course these three sentences will probably go way over your head. And then to think you accuse me of ranting !

AND ??? what's your problem ???

I didn't care for the remark re----Military coups have made two members of the Shins martyrs.---total B/S

If you agree then you condone B/S

Then you smash figures of PTP election wins down my throat---and the Dems will never ever win again. B/S I will say again what is your point---what statement do you want to put forward---another one like ---You are Not a PTP supporter. ????

The shins to me are a corrupt + family for monetary gain and power crazy---to me that is not democratic---that also does not give them the right to be undemocratic in government--even if they won an election.

You want to believe other --then fine.

You still fail to see the point of these three lines. The point is that military coups will only make the chance of yet another Shinawatra victory at the polls more likely. Also look at how the Original poster describes PT in the second line. Especialy the part of incompetence and low popularity.

[sjaak327]

Oh, I get it, and while they may be considered the majority party because they got more votes than the other parties, as you have said, they did not get the majority of the votes and thus can not claim to, as some have claimed that the majority of the Thai voters voted for PTP when they did not.

PT got 265 seats in the lower house. Considering there are 500 seats, this is a clear majority. They infact were the majority party,

So what percentage of 500 is 265? And what was the percentage of voters that elected the 265 seats?

53% of seats, 48.4% / 44.4% of votes. What counts in the Thai electoral system is the first percentage.

Edited June 2, 2014 by sjaak327

[brewsterbudgen]

In all seriousness you're comparing Field Marshal Omar Hassan Ahmad Al-Bashir to Yingluck?!

I despair at the paucity of your arguments but credit your perseverance!

Both elected by the people.

Yes. As is every democratically elected leader. And?

Ummmmm, read my comprehensive post on that one.It is above mate...

I have. I make a point of always reading your posts as they are always well argued and well written, but I find it frustrating that you can only see things from such a polarised point of view.

Equating Yingluck's administration with political violence and repression is just clearly wrong. Just as I don't blame Abhisit Vejjajiva and Suthep, personally, for the deaths of the Red Shirt protestors in 2010 (although many one-sided Reds would and do). Yingluck acted with considerable restraint during the months of protests against her government and much personal abuse aimed at her personally. She condemned the terrorist atrocities committed in the "Reds" name during the protests. Not many Democrats condemned the forcible prevention of voting and the widespread intimidation carried out by the protestors.

Your analogy with Field Marshal Omar Hassan Ahmad Al-Bashir is clearly misplaced and, to be honest, ludicrous.

[fab4]

I guess that explains the red-shirts flying the Cambodian flag. Do they want to do to Thailand what they did to Cambodia?

<EDIT> Yes!!! Maoist theory.

How very embarassing, jamie. Not only did you use a copyright image - (Photo credit should read TANG CHHIN SOTHY/AFP/Getty Images) you tried to mislead the forum by deliberately leaving off the tagline which puts the image into context.

In the interests of truth I'll let the forum know the image caption

Caption:Thai red shirt supporters shout slogans as they hold a portrait of Prime Minister Hun Sen during a friendly football match at the National Olympic stadium in Phnom Penh on September 24, 2011. Cambodian and Thai High-ranking officials and MPs were playing a friendly match.

Thailand and Cambodia shoot for football diplomacy

Nirmal Ghosh

The Straits Times

Call it football diplomacy.

After over two years of withering rhetoric, downgraded relations and artillery exchanges, Thailand's relationship with Cambodia is set to see a dramatic turnaround this month with a friendly football match between Thai MPs and Cambodian government officials.

The game on Sept 23 will be preceded by a visit to Phnom Penh by Thai Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra this Thursday. During the day-long trip, she is expected to request the release of two Thai nationalists jailed in Cambodia on spying charges; it is likely that Cambodian Prime Minister Hun Sen will agree.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/497784-thailand-and-cambodia-shoot-for-football-diplomacy/#entry4693422

The two years of "withering rhetoric, downgraded relations and artillery exchanges" were abhisits idea of foreign relations with Cambodia and should not be seen as a desperate attempt to woo the Nationalists in any way at all.

You may or may not recall this land based "gunboat diplomacy" led to 7 Thais being arrested, among them a Dem MP, Panich Vikitsreth and ex PAD then Thai Patriots Network leader, Veera Somkwamkid among them.

A Thai lawmaker and six other Thai nationals face up to 18 months in prison after being charged in Phnom Penh Municipal Court yesterday following their arrest for trespassing near the contentious Thai-Cambodian border.

Panich Vikitsreth, an MP from Thailand’s ruling Democrat Party, was among a group of seven people charged with illegal entry and unlawfully entering a military base, Phnom Penh deputy prosecutor Sok Roeun said. The group was questioned yesterday after being apprehended near a military encampment in Banteay Meanchey province on Wednesday, across the border from Thailand’s Sa Kaeo province.

Thai Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva admitted he had tasked Panich with investigating the border and called for the case to be dismissed.

“Cambodia must release all seven Thais immediately,” Abhisit said. “Cambodia must take into consideration that if they want cordial ties, they should rely on negotiations. If not, then there is a problem for both sides.”

http://www.phnompenhpost.com/national/thai-mp-faces-charges

Ah, abhisit, the ultimate diplomat. Veera Somkwamkid is still in a Cambodian prison.

[triffid]

Wow, too many comments to read all, but let me at least praise one from heybruce with the "government didn't have to listen to Thaksin".

Now that will impress the International Community for sure.

Wow, you went all the way back to post #525 for that one, and violated forum rules by taking that short statement out of context.

However in that post I was replying to the question "How many countries in the western world would allow their country to be run by a convicted criminal via social media?". I was in a hurry and gave a rushed reply. Since you brought the issue back up, I'll answer the question properly.

If a modern western democracy had an elected leader who was very popular with a large segment of the population deposed by a military coup, then convicted of crimes by a government installed by the military, they would react very similarly (perhaps more violently) than Thailand. When a qualified democracy returned voters would eagerly vote for a candidate in regular contact with the exiled leader who promised to be the leaders "clone", and would support a government taking directions from the exiled leader. In fact I think most in western democracies would eagerly vote for and support such a government even if they didn't approve of many of its policies, just to send an "up yours" to the military.

As I've written before, when you make a martyr of an opponent, you make your opponent more powerful. Military coups have now made two members of the Shinawatra family into martyrs, and when elections return this will become clear. Too bad there couldn't have been an election right after the PTP had demonstrated years of incompetence and was at a low point in popularity.

All of the enthusiastic supporters of the coup should think about that. By supporting the coup you are supporting an action that increases the long-term power and influence of the Shinawatra family.

The junta (and its allies / masters) will focus on

a) turning as many potential PTP voters as they can, e.g. by gestures such rice payments et alia (which no-one would call bribery or vote-buying of course) and through earnest statements like 'reconciliation and happiness' (which no-one would call propaganda/censorship of course), and

by framing a constitution that works in tandem with the so-called independent institutions, courts and appointees to the legislature to castrate an elected government of real power. That's when elections will be allowed.

It's a simple-minded plan which may work for a while but will bring nemesis in the medium term.

[ginjag]

They are election results, not propaganda figures. Who the people vote for next time was the whole point of this discussion. Let me refresh your memory and quote the post that started this:

"As I've written before, when you make a martyr of an opponent, you make your opponent more powerful. Military coups have now made two members of the Shinawatra family into martyrs, and when elections return this will become clear. Too bad there couldn't have been an election right after the PTP had demonstrated years of incompetence and was at a low point in popularity.

All of the enthusiastic supporters of the coup should think about that. By supporting the coup you are supporting an action that increases the long-term power and influence of the Shinawatra family."

But of course these three sentences will probably go way over your head. And then to think you accuse me of ranting !

AND ??? what's your problem ???

I didn't care for the remark re----Military coups have made two members of the Shins martyrs.---total B/S

If you agree then you condone B/S

Then you smash figures of PTP election wins down my throat---and the Dems will never ever win again. B/S I will say again what is your point---what statement do you want to put forward---another one like ---You are Not a PTP supporter. ????

The shins to me are a corrupt + family for monetary gain and power crazy---to me that is not democratic---that also does not give them the right to be undemocratic in government--even if they won an election.

You want to believe other --then fine.

You still fail to see the point of these three lines. The point is that military coups will only make the chance of yet another Shinawatra victory at the polls more likely. Also look at how the Original poster describes PT in the second line. Especialy the part of incompetence and low popularity.

I see the point but not through rose glasses.

Nothing will make the Shins more popular as they are on the way out ---my point.

I am past arguing the toss about a diabolical government controlled from abroad---not democratic in my eyes-illegal and they have suffered dearly for it.

I am eagerly awaiting all the trials and tribulations, and still smile at all the denials regarding the PTP wrongdoings---hilarious.

Remember it's always easier to not take sides, only bash when needed---and that's what I did as soon as the Shins started their control freak antics.

Now they are under control they do not like their own medicine. Kharma.

[djjamie]

How very embarassing, jamie. Not only did you use a copyright image - (Photo credit should read TANG CHHIN SOTHY/AFP/Getty Images) you tried to mislead the forum by deliberately leaving off the tagline which puts the image into context.

In the interests of truth I'll let the forum know the image caption

Caption:Thai red shirt supporters shout slogans as they hold a portrait of Prime Minister Hun Sen during a friendly football match at the National Olympic stadium in Phnom Penh on September 24, 2011. Cambodian and Thai High-ranking officials and MPs were playing a friendly match.

Thailand and Cambodia shoot for football diplomacy

Nirmal Ghosh

The Straits Times

Call it football diplomacy.

After over two years of withering rhetoric, downgraded relations and artillery exchanges, Thailand's relationship with Cambodia is set to see a dramatic turnaround this month with a friendly football match between Thai MPs and Cambodian government officials.

The game on Sept 23 will be preceded by a visit to Phnom Penh by Thai Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra this Thursday. During the day-long trip, she is expected to request the release of two Thai nationalists jailed in Cambodia on spying charges; it is likely that Cambodian Prime Minister Hun Sen will agree.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/497784-thailand-and-cambodia-shoot-for-football-diplomacy/#entry4693422

The two years of "withering rhetoric, downgraded relations and artillery exchanges" were abhisits idea of foreign relations with Cambodia and should not be seen as a desperate attempt to woo the Nationalists in any way at all.

You may or may not recall this land based "gunboat diplomacy" led to 7 Thais being arrested, among them a Dem MP, Panich Vikitsreth and ex PAD then Thai Patriots Network leader, Veera Somkwamkid among them.

A Thai lawmaker and six other Thai nationals face up to 18 months in prison after being charged in Phnom Penh Municipal Court yesterday following their arrest for trespassing near the contentious Thai-Cambodian border.

Panich Vikitsreth, an MP from Thailand’s ruling Democrat Party, was among a group of seven people charged with illegal entry and unlawfully entering a military base, Phnom Penh deputy prosecutor Sok Roeun said. The group was questioned yesterday after being apprehended near a military encampment in Banteay Meanchey province on Wednesday, across the border from Thailand’s Sa Kaeo province.

Thai Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva admitted he had tasked Panich with investigating the border and called for the case to be dismissed.

“Cambodia must release all seven Thais immediately,” Abhisit said. “Cambodia must take into consideration that if they want cordial ties, they should rely on negotiations. If not, then there is a problem for both sides.”

http://www.phnompenhpost.com/national/thai-mp-faces-charges

Ah, abhisit, the ultimate diplomat. Veera Somkwamkid is still in a Cambodian prison.

Yep, even during football matches they love Hun Sen. During table tennis they love Hun Sen. During breakfast the love Hun Sen. During dinner they love Hun Sen. During sleep they love HunSen. They even love him during a red shirt protest on the 11th of May when they commemorated fallen red shirts.

BTW - Thaksin loves Hun Sen when he wanted to form a govt in exile in Cambodia with his best mate………you guessed it…WHat was his name?…….Hun Sen. The Khmer Rouge guy…You know the guy!!

Leave your bitterness in the past Fabio. Move on and reconcile. I hold my hand out to you. Please take it so we like the Thai's can move forward…Or will you be left in the shadows with the bitter?

[Piichai]

Oh, I get it, and while they may be considered the majority party because they got more votes than the other parties, as you have said, they did not get the majority of the votes and thus can not claim to, as some have claimed that the majority of the Thai voters voted for PTP when they did not.

PT got 265 seats in the lower house. Considering there are 500 seats, this is a clear majority. They infact were the majority party,

So what percentage of 500 is 265? And what was the percentage of voters that elected the 265 seats?

53% of seats, 48.4% / 44.4% of votes. What counts in the Thai electoral system is the first percentage.

Well, that's interesting. It seems you're highlighting another problem of the current system.

[ginjag]

53% of seats, 48.4% / 44.4% of votes. What counts in the Thai electoral system is the first percentage.

Well, that's interesting. It seems you're highlighting another problem of the current system.

Piichai-this poster has just got this thing about % in past elections and land slides and and ??? the point being it's all old hat, but we still have these rose brothers bashing out about past elections-and democracy------after all that has been revealed---and there is more---for sure.

[sjaak327]

53% of seats, 48.4% / 44.4% of votes. What counts in the Thai electoral system is the first percentage.

Well, that's interesting. It seems you're highlighting another problem of the current system.

A system that of course applies to all parties that participate in elections.

Not that it would make much difference, if they would base seats on popular vote only instead of a combination of constituenty and popular vote PT would still have 242 votes, and would therefore only need an additional 9 votes to from a government,. The ousted coalition government did receive 52% of the votes, and would therefore have gotten more than the 250 required votes to elect the PM and form a government.

The biggest problem for people that support the coup is the Thai electorate, and their inability to accept the choices they make, one would think on of the most important prerequisites to have a system and a society that works.

[sjaak327]

53% of seats, 48.4% / 44.4% of votes. What counts in the Thai electoral system is the first percentage.

Well, that's interesting. It seems you're highlighting another problem of the current system.

Piichai-this poster has just got this thing about % in past elections and land slides and and ??? the point being it's all old hat, but we still have these rose brothers bashing out about past elections-and democracy------after all that has been revealed---and there is more---for sure.

How dare I refer to election results in a democracy !

It is far better to have the militairy abolish their own constitution because it utterly failed to prevent yet another PT or PPP victory. I guess after the 50% appointed senate, their next one will introduce a partially appointed lower house, as they by now know they cannot count on the Thai electorate !

[VegasVic]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

"If you feeling froggy then leap"

"if you feeling froggy then leap" This coming from the lead frog alt=clap2.gif> There is no need for me to leap my friend, I am very comfortable here in Sedona, I travel to Thailand whenever the whim hits me, however I don't think the whim will hit me for quite some time now, at least until they clean up the political mess and have elections again alt=thumbsup.gif>

VegasVic, I'm glad you are comfy wherever you are. I'm happy to see you being occasionally hit by your whims. I'm sure you are welcome to Thailand whenever you're whimmed.

One thing I'm curious about - in which way the 'political mess they are in' impacts on your pleasures in Thailand?

Does the sea water gets too hot for you?

Is 'Tom Yam' too spicy?

Are you only using for sex girls with 'Liberal Libido'?

Or maybe the ladies here select you for a night in a strictly Democratic way?

As I said, - just being curious. alt=facepalm.gif>

ABC, I have yo say that I am quite relieved to know that I am welcome in Thailand anytime I wish to venture there The political mess impacts every aspect of Thai life, and I think that most people feel as I do when a democratically elected government is overthrown by the military. There are plenty of countries to vacation in where the military has not imposed martial law on its citizens and tourists As for your questions on the "seedier side of life" , well you seemed to have tipped your hat there my friend, no worries though you should find a good many friends here on thaivisa who are drunkards and whoremongers, carry on there young man

[Mackie]

53% of seats, 48.4% / 44.4% of votes. What counts in the Thai electoral system is the first percentage.

Well, that's interesting. It seems you're highlighting another problem of the current system.

A system that of course applies to all parties that participate in elections.

Not that it would make much difference, if they would base seats on popular vote only instead of a combination of constituenty and popular vote PT would still have 242 votes, and would therefore only need an additional 9 votes to from a government,. The ousted coalition government did receive 52% of the votes, and would therefore have gotten more than the 250 required votes to elect the PM and form a government.

The biggest problem for people that support the coup is the Thai electorate, and their inability to accept the choices they make, one would think on of the most important prerequisites to have a system and a society that works.

There is no problem at all if they follow law and order. But they simply cannot help themselves. The red shirt movement and PTP need to clean up their own act once and forever. Surely in any normal country Nattawut and Jatuporn would be behind the bars. Not playing politics. The biggest problem for people that do not support the coup is their inability to acknowledge the fact that the side they support has committed numerous crimes and terror acts over the years completely unacceptable in any normal democratic society. You cannot go on terrorizing people just because they do not share the same political opinion as you in red controlled areas of the country, you cannot waste (steal) billions of USD and get away with it and above all it is completely unacceptable for any democratic country to be ruled by a convicted criminal via social media. It's simply not on. Spare us your futile 'speeches' about democracy while the side you support acts almost exclusively in an autocratic way.

[djjamie]

What international alarm? The silence at home and abroad is deafening.

Even my fellow Old Boy Jonathan Head must be having trouble justifying his expenses claims at the moment.

I'd concede that most of the international comment won't translate into tangible action, but it is rumbling on, even permeating down to regional newspapers. Here is an Op-Ed by a former Congressman who clearly doesn't like what has happened.

http://www.pressherald.com/opinion/Barney_Frank__It_s_time_to_stand_up_to_Thai_regime.html?searchterm=Thailand

I wonder what Congressman Frank has to say about Thaksin's supporters:

It is four years ago today since one the most disgraceful homophobic events in Chiang Mai’s history when hundreds of thugs from the UDD Red Shirt supporters physically threatened the gay……..

http://www.gayinchiangmai.com/News/tag/gay-pride/

[sjaak327]

A system that of course applies to all parties that participate in elections.

Not that it would make much difference, if they would base seats on popular vote only instead of a combination of constituenty and popular vote PT would still have 242 votes, and would therefore only need an additional 9 votes to from a government,. The ousted coalition government did receive 52% of the votes, and would therefore have gotten more than the 250 required votes to elect the PM and form a government.

The biggest problem for people that support the coup is the Thai electorate, and their inability to accept the choices they make, one would think on of the most important prerequisites to have a system and a society that works.

There is no problem at all if they follow law and order. But they simply cannot help themselves. The red shirt movement and PTP need to clean up their own act once and forever. Surely in any normal country Nattawut and Jatuporn would be behind the bars. Not playing politics. The biggest problem for people that do not support the coup is their inability to acknowledge the fact that the side they support has committed numerous crimes and terror acts over the years completely unacceptable in any normal democratic society. You cannot go on terrorizing people just because they do not share the same political opinion as you in red controlled areas of the country, you cannot waste (steal) billions of USD and get away with it and above all it is completely unacceptable for any democratic country to be ruled by a convicted criminal via social media. It's simply not on. Spare us your futile 'speeches' about democracy while the side you support acts almost exclusively in an autocratic way.

No one is claiming PT isn't corrupt.

Of course there are other ways to force them to clean up their act. In any case, preventing people to vote, frustrating elections and eventually a militairy coup are all not ways of handling with them. And all of them are just as illegal and unacceptable as what you accuse PT off.

But I guess the other side can scream bloody murder but is held to different standards.

And once again I do not support Thaksin or PT, but I do have my eyes open for the wrong doings on both sides. After all is said and done, accepting an election result is what is needed here. There are more than enough ways to ensure wrong doing is dealt with, as was shown by Yinluck's removal from office.

Edited June 2, 2014 by sjaak327

[northernjohn]

A system that of course applies to all parties that participate in elections.

Not that it would make much difference, if they would base seats on popular vote only instead of a combination of constituenty and popular vote PT would still have 242 votes, and would therefore only need an additional 9 votes to from a government,. The ousted coalition government did receive 52% of the votes, and would therefore have gotten more than the 250 required votes to elect the PM and form a government.

The biggest problem for people that support the coup is the Thai electorate, and their inability to accept the choices they make, one would think on of the most important prerequisites to have a system and a society that works.

There is no problem at all if they follow law and order. But they simply cannot help themselves. The red shirt movement and PTP need to clean up their own act once and forever. Surely in any normal country Nattawut and Jatuporn would be behind the bars. Not playing politics. The biggest problem for people that do not support the coup is their inability to acknowledge the fact that the side they support has committed numerous crimes and terror acts over the years completely unacceptable in any normal democratic society. You cannot go on terrorizing people just because they do not share the same political opinion as you in red controlled areas of the country, you cannot waste (steal) billions of USD and get away with it and above all it is completely unacceptable for any democratic country to be ruled by a convicted criminal via social media. It's simply not on. Spare us your futile 'speeches' about democracy while the side you support acts almost exclusively in an autocratic way.

No one is claiming PT isn't corrupt.

Of course there are other ways to force them to clean up their act. In any case, preventing people to vote, frustrating elections and eventually a militairy coup are all not ways of handling with them. And all of them are just as illegal and unacceptable as what you accuse PT off.

But I guess the other side can scream bloody murder but is held to different standards.

And once again I do not support Thaksin or PT, but I do have my eyes open for the wrong doings on both sides. After all is said and done, accepting an election result is what is needed here. There are more than enough ways to ensure wrong doing is dealt with, as was shown by Yinluck's removal from office.

Pay attention. There is far less protectors against the coup than the red shirts had against the PDRC. The people don't care they want peace. They now have it with the exception of as few hard core red shirts. They have been given a plan to bring justice into the government system and then return the government back to the people. The big difference will be that a lot of the corrupt officials will not be running and more honest people will be able to run for office.

Care to enlighten us all on these other methods of getting rid of the crooks. Look how long it took them to get rid of Yingluck the amount of danger she did in her time in the office will take a long time to clean up. They hadn't even started on the rest of the crooks. A finance minister lying to the people and claiming it is OK. They didn't even censure him for it they sanctioned it. In Two weeks the General has managed to do what would take 10 years to do any way you can come up with.

You don't need the patience you would have to have doing things your way.

This is only going to take in the vicinity of a year and it will be done.

[djjamie]

Yes. As is every democratically elected leader. And?

Ummmmm, read my comprehensive post on that one.It is above mate...

I have. I make a point of always reading your posts as they are always well argued and well written, but I find it frustrating that you can only see things from such a polarised point of view.

Equating Yingluck's administration with political violence and repression is just clearly wrong. Just as I don't blame Abhisit Vejjajiva and Suthep, personally, for the deaths of the Red Shirt protestors in 2010 (although many one-sided Reds would and do). Yingluck acted with considerable restraint during the months of protests against her government and much personal abuse aimed at her personally. She condemned the terrorist atrocities committed in the "Reds" name during the protests. Not many Democrats condemned the forcible prevention of voting and the widespread intimidation carried out by the protestors.

Your analogy with Field Marshal Omar Hassan Ahmad Al-Bashir is clearly misplaced and, to be honest, ludicrous.

Ummmm, read my post above mate? Both elected. Argument was that elected officials should be able to complete there term.

There are over 20 dead and over 700 injured that don't agree with that.

Sudan has 2.4 million that don't agree with that.

[sjaak327]

A system that of course applies to all parties that participate in elections.

Not that it would make much difference, if they would base seats on popular vote only instead of a combination of constituenty and popular vote PT would still have 242 votes, and would therefore only need an additional 9 votes to from a government,. The ousted coalition government did receive 52% of the votes, and would therefore have gotten more than the 250 required votes to elect the PM and form a government.

The biggest problem for people that support the coup is the Thai electorate, and their inability to accept the choices they make, one would think on of the most important prerequisites to have a system and a society that works.

There is no problem at all if they follow law and order. But they simply cannot help themselves. The red shirt movement and PTP need to clean up their own act once and forever. Surely in any normal country Nattawut and Jatuporn would be behind the bars. Not playing politics. The biggest problem for people that do not support the coup is their inability to acknowledge the fact that the side they support has committed numerous crimes and terror acts over the years completely unacceptable in any normal democratic society. You cannot go on terrorizing people just because they do not share the same political opinion as you in red controlled areas of the country, you cannot waste (steal) billions of USD and get away with it and above all it is completely unacceptable for any democratic country to be ruled by a convicted criminal via social media. It's simply not on. Spare us your futile 'speeches' about democracy while the side you support acts almost exclusively in an autocratic way.

No one is claiming PT isn't corrupt.

Of course there are other ways to force them to clean up their act. In any case, preventing people to vote, frustrating elections and eventually a militairy coup are all not ways of handling with them. And all of them are just as illegal and unacceptable as what you accuse PT off.

But I guess the other side can scream bloody murder but is held to different standards.

And once again I do not support Thaksin or PT, but I do have my eyes open for the wrong doings on both sides. After all is said and done, accepting an election result is what is needed here. There are more than enough ways to ensure wrong doing is dealt with, as was shown by Yinluck's removal from office.

Pay attention. There is far less protectors against the coup than the red shirts had against the PDRC. The people don't care they want peace. They now have it with the exception of as few hard core red shirts. They have been given a plan to bring justice into the government system and then return the government back to the people. The big difference will be that a lot of the corrupt officials will not be running and more honest people will be able to run for office.

Care to enlighten us all on these other methods of getting rid of the crooks. Look how long it took them to get rid of Yingluck the amount of danger she did in her time in the office will take a long time to clean up. They hadn't even started on the rest of the crooks. A finance minister lying to the people and claiming it is OK. They didn't even censure him for it they sanctioned it. In Two weeks the General has managed to do what would take 10 years to do any way you can come up with.

You don't need the patience you would have to have doing things your way.

This is only going to take in the vicinity of a year and it will be done.

Just as they did last time right ?

Last time they also claimed all the things you are talking about. Yet of course that didn't materialize, and it will most certainly not this time around.

[heybruce]

How many elections did they win where more than 50% of the Thais voted for them? Exactly.

Good question, when was the last time any party won with more than 50% of Thai's voting for them? If you insist on counting non-voters in the calculation, never.

Better question, how is this relevant to anything being discussed? I'll let sumtingwong answer that one.

[heybruce]

Wow, you went all the way back to post #525 for that one, and violated forum rules by taking that short statement out of context.

However in that post I was replying to the question "How many countries in the western world would allow their country to be run by a convicted criminal via social media?". I was in a hurry and gave a rushed reply. Since you brought the issue back up, I'll answer the question properly.

If a modern western democracy had an elected leader who was very popular with a large segment of the population deposed by a military coup, then convicted of crimes by a government installed by the military, they would react very similarly (perhaps more violently) than Thailand. When a qualified democracy returned voters would eagerly vote for a candidate in regular contact with the exiled leader who promised to be the leaders "clone", and would support a government taking directions from the exiled leader. In fact I think most in western democracies would eagerly vote for and support such a government even if they didn't approve of many of its policies, just to send an "up yours" to the military.

As I've written before, when you make a martyr of an opponent, you make your opponent more powerful. Military coups have now made two members of the Shinawatra family into martyrs, and when elections return this will become clear. Too bad there couldn't have been an election right after the PTP had demonstrated years of incompetence and was at a low point in popularity.

All of the enthusiastic supporters of the coup should think about that. By supporting the coup you are supporting an action that increases the long-term power and influence of the Shinawatra family.

Martyrs ???? in who's eyes ??? near all family have been in court at one time or another---fine example of an upstanding family.

Your last 2 lines are a complete waste of time and space---just a joke. Pathetic to say the least, what a loser if this cr#p is all you can come up with.

Better then next time you don't get excited to reply and rush it. Now you have given us a laugh out of your non rushed reply. Leave it out will you give it all a rest, I fly Emirates via Dubai regular--try it. Dubai is a nice stopover--sure you'd be welcome.

What has Dubai got to do with anything. His post actually makes a lot of sense. Unless the junta does away with one man, one vote, the next elections will again be a massive win for PT. Their less then solid performance the last few years will not make one bit of difference, thanks to people who actually believe they have the right to ignore the will of the Thai electorate.

*edited out*

If you bothered to read his post then you will see that Shins were to become martyrs the main one is stationed -Dubai.

Unless you think T.S. has nothing to do with Dubai.

His post has no sense unless you looked at another post by mistake.

Who said the Army was to do away with 1 man 1 vote ??? your prediction for PT next election win is as far fetched as Elvis living in a red village.

Quote again " what has Dubai got to do with anything"---It's HRH Q/E Coronation day today have another drink.

Don't you think the people who supported and voted for Thaksin and Yingluck aren't resentful of how they were removed from office?

Don't you think that when elections are finally held the memory of how Yingluck was removed will overshadow her incompetence?

Don't you think voters who prefer democracy to military rule will resent what has happened during the next elections?

Don't you think these things add up to Thaksin and Yingluck becoming martyrs for all practical effects?

[englishoak]

53% of seats, 48.4% / 44.4% of votes. What counts in the Thai electoral system is the first percentage.

Well, that's interesting. It seems you're highlighting another problem of the current system.

Piichai-this poster has just got this thing about % in past elections and land slides and and ??? the point being it's all old hat, but we still have these rose brothers bashing out about past elections-and democracy------after all that has been revealed---and there is more---for sure.

Its old hat but the way electoral systems run, now until there is a better way its the best thats out there to date, unless you consider the China dictatorial/capitalist model better or communism or dictatorship or absolute monarchy better.

Either you believe in rule by peoples choice or rule by force.

Stable rule of law and consistency or instability, disregard of law and inconsistency

Equality for all or not

Liberty or suppression

I believe in the all former and none of the latter,it brings inconveniences, problems of its own sure, warts and all, but to expect fair treatment you must also afford that to those you oppose. including the very worst of society youd rather not have to, end of the day determination to have equality not only for us but our children drives us to accept all others must be treated as youd want to be.... or it means nothing.

It is open to interpretation of course as humans where that line is and its human nature to suppose we are always in the right and all others are not......... the truth lays somewhere in the middle as none of us do everything right all of the time. There must be an acceptance and serious consideration of others opinions all the time, take them seriously and also be flexible enough to admit when they are right and you are wrong and most of all adopt those ideals when others have it right and you dont. Not because it proves you were wrong and shows weakness but because it is the right thing to do and is actually a strength. It also allows others to consider when your right and them wrong and do the same, benefiting one and all.

This is how slavery was abolished, this is how women got the vote, this is how racism is being eroded. it is respect for others ideas when you may not be able to form them yourself. This is progress.

Reconciliation im all for but to do that it must be totally inclusive and not exclusive nor dismissive and suppressive. And im not talking about allowing violence but I am talking about compromise and making your opponent feel they are getting taken seriously and opinions respected. It also has to be done by example and in clear view. there must also be the will to punish to the full one of your own when they fail, openly and immediately. This promotes trust, openness, honesty and shows your serious. Only then will there be cohesion and progress.

It could be described in a nutshell as human rights but human rights do not really exist, in truth they are only temporary privileges if they can be taken away at a whim or by force. To stop that happening certain rights must be embedded central to any constitution or book of law. They should not be open to suspension if at all possible and certainly not on a regular basis.

Many here will say, well its needed here now, then again its Thailand where its been that excuse many times over in the past, it should be a one off not a trump card to be played again and again, if it is then its clearly a flawed solution, At some point I hope there is the realisation that doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result in the longterm is just a form of insanity.

[djjamie]

Martyrs ???? in who's eyes ??? near all family have been in court at one time or another---fine example of an upstanding family.

Your last 2 lines are a complete waste of time and space---just a joke. Pathetic to say the least, what a loser if this cr#p is all you can come up with.

Better then next time you don't get excited to reply and rush it. Now you have given us a laugh out of your non rushed reply. Leave it out will you give it all a rest, I fly Emirates via Dubai regular--try it. Dubai is a nice stopover--sure you'd be welcome.

What has Dubai got to do with anything. His post actually makes a lot of sense. Unless the junta does away with one man, one vote, the next elections will again be a massive win for PT. Their less then solid performance the last few years will not make one bit of difference, thanks to people who actually believe they have the right to ignore the will of the Thai electorate.

*edited out*

If you bothered to read his post then you will see that Shins were to become martyrs the main one is stationed -Dubai.

Unless you think T.S. has nothing to do with Dubai.

His post has no sense unless you looked at another post by mistake.

Who said the Army was to do away with 1 man 1 vote ??? your prediction for PT next election win is as far fetched as Elvis living in a red village.

Quote again " what has Dubai got to do with anything"---It's HRH Q/E Coronation day today have another drink.

Don't you think the people who supported and voted for Thaksin and Yingluck aren't resentful of how they were removed from office?

Don't you think that when elections are finally held the memory of how Yingluck was removed will overshadow her incompetence?

Don't you think voters who prefer democracy to military rule will resent what has happened during the next elections?

Don't you think these things add up to Thaksin and Yingluck becoming martyrs for all practical effects?

Don't you think that the PTP and UDD that denounce anyone that disagrees with them are fake will be forgotten.

Fake Monks.

Fake Farmers.

Fake articles.

Fake polls.

Fake expats!!

[heybruce]

A husband and wife commie red-shirt UDD team with the husband serving as a member of parliament for the PTP since 2011.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weng_Tojirakarn

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thida_Thavornseth

If you read both of those sources you'll see that both Weng Tojirakarn and thida Thavornseth were serious critics of Thaksin until the 2006 coup. It seems like the coup increased support for Thaksin. Probably just these two, right?

[heybruce]

What has Dubai got to do with anything. His post actually makes a lot of sense. Unless the junta does away with one man, one vote, the next elections will again be a massive win for PT. Their less then solid performance the last few years will not make one bit of difference, thanks to people who actually believe they have the right to ignore the will of the Thai electorate.

*edited out*

If you bothered to read his post then you will see that Shins were to become martyrs the main one is stationed -Dubai.

Unless you think T.S. has nothing to do with Dubai.

His post has no sense unless you looked at another post by mistake.

Who said the Army was to do away with 1 man 1 vote ??? your prediction for PT next election win is as far fetched as Elvis living in a red village.

Quote again " what has Dubai got to do with anything"---It's HRH Q/E Coronation day today have another drink.

Don't you think the people who supported and voted for Thaksin and Yingluck aren't resentful of how they were removed from office?

Don't you think that when elections are finally held the memory of how Yingluck was removed will overshadow her incompetence?

Don't you think voters who prefer democracy to military rule will resent what has happened during the next elections?

Don't you think these things add up to Thaksin and Yingluck becoming martyrs for all practical effects?

Don't you think that the PTP and UDD that denounce anyone that disagrees with them are fake will be forgotten.

Fake Monks.

Fake Farmers.

Fake articles.

Fake polls.

Fake expats!!

I think that's your somewhat unique take on the PTP and UDD.

[djjamie]

If you bothered to read his post then you will see that Shins were to become martyrs the main one is stationed -Dubai.

Unless you think T.S. has nothing to do with Dubai.

His post has no sense unless you looked at another post by mistake.

Who said the Army was to do away with 1 man 1 vote ??? your prediction for PT next election win is as far fetched as Elvis living in a red village.

Quote again " what has Dubai got to do with anything"---It's HRH Q/E Coronation day today have another drink.

Don't you think the people who supported and voted for Thaksin and Yingluck aren't resentful of how they were removed from office?

Don't you think that when elections are finally held the memory of how Yingluck was removed will overshadow her incompetence?

Don't you think voters who prefer democracy to military rule will resent what has happened during the next elections?

Don't you think these things add up to Thaksin and Yingluck becoming martyrs for all practical effects?

Don't you think that the PTP and UDD that denounce anyone that disagrees with them are fake will be forgotten.

Fake Monks.

Fake Farmers.

Fake articles.

Fake polls.

Fake expats!!

I think that's your somewhat unique take on the PTP and UDD.

Thanks.

Kind Regards,

From the 2 week millionaire!!!

[northernjohn]

There is no problem at all if they follow law and order. But they simply cannot help themselves. The red shirt movement and PTP need to clean up their own act once and forever. Surely in any normal country Nattawut and Jatuporn would be behind the bars. Not playing politics. The biggest problem for people that do not support the coup is their inability to acknowledge the fact that the side they support has committed numerous crimes and terror acts over the years completely unacceptable in any normal democratic society. You cannot go on terrorizing people just because they do not share the same political opinion as you in red controlled areas of the country, you cannot waste (steal) billions of USD and get away with it and above all it is completely unacceptable for any democratic country to be ruled by a convicted criminal via social media. It's simply not on. Spare us your futile 'speeches' about democracy while the side you support acts almost exclusively in an autocratic way.

No one is claiming PT isn't corrupt.

Of course there are other ways to force them to clean up their act. In any case, preventing people to vote, frustrating elections and eventually a militairy coup are all not ways of handling with them. And all of them are just as illegal and unacceptable as what you accuse PT off.

But I guess the other side can scream bloody murder but is held to different standards.

And once again I do not support Thaksin or PT, but I do have my eyes open for the wrong doings on both sides. After all is said and done, accepting an election result is what is needed here. There are more than enough ways to ensure wrong doing is dealt with, as was shown by Yinluck's removal from office.

Pay attention. There is far less protectors against the coup than the red shirts had against the PDRC. The people don't care they want peace. They now have it with the exception of as few hard core red shirts. They have been given a plan to bring justice into the government system and then return the government back to the people. The big difference will be that a lot of the corrupt officials will not be running and more honest people will be able to run for office.

Care to enlighten us all on these other methods of getting rid of the crooks. Look how long it took them to get rid of Yingluck the amount of danger she did in her time in the office will take a long time to clean up. They hadn't even started on the rest of the crooks. A finance minister lying to the people and claiming it is OK. They didn't even censure him for it they sanctioned it. In Two weeks the General has managed to do what would take 10 years to do any way you can come up with.

You don't need the patience you would have to have doing things your way.

This is only going to take in the vicinity of a year and it will be done.

Just as they did last time right ?

Last time they also claimed all the things you are talking about. Yet of course that didn't materialize, and it will most certainly not this time around.

Wrong as usual. Even the red shirt leaning media admit that they are getting the corrupt officials out. They of course deny that they are corrupt.

You really should throw the history book away and look out the window at 2014. It is an amazing time to be living in Thailand. You will see history made here. Unlike the previous coups they are not ignoring the crooks they are going after the crooks. People from all sides of the troubles are being asked to explain them selves.