International alarm mounts over Thai coup

[fab4]

I'll keep that in mind next time I need to know an 18th Century Scottish Judge's cynical view on contemporary democracy.

I guess you feel the same way about 18th Century: Isaac Newton.

I don't believe Sir Isaac Newton had much to say on contemporary Thai politics so in answer to your question, Yes, I do feel the same way.

[fab4]

Looking somewhat deeper I can see what others tried to bury, my dear fabs. Like the alarm the lack of international response to the coup is causing some posters here.

From your <redacted> uncle rubl.

You're looking in the wrong place, rubl, and you've got your eyes closed, but hey, nothing new there.

Looking in the wrong place? Should I start digging in Rayong (again) you mean?

Anyway, I know I'm good but typing with my eyes closed is not amongst my skills.

With eyes wide shut or so,

uncle rubl

“Fundamental rights at stake in Thailand” – UN experts concerned about arbitrary detentions and restrictions

http://www.ohchr.org/EN/NewsEvents/Pages/DisplayNews.aspx?NewsID=14696&LangID=E

[Emptyset]

Just going to Udon (direct flight from BKK) and digging out a few Thaksin fans doesn't really give a balanced view.

If he went to say to say Roi Et or Kalasin or Mukdahan and spoke to a cross section he might get a more balanced view.

In my opinion a majority in nthye NE are optimistic about the army taking control.........

In "your opinion" - note JH hasn't expressed any opinion as to whether most people approve of the coup or otherwise. I imagine he knows there's no way of knowing for sure, barring a referendum. So who's biased now? You clearly are, so don't you think your own bias might distort your perceptions of JH's reporting?

Anyway, with the caveat that we have no way of knowing what "most" Thais think, historically coups have been welcomed by a large section of society who like the idea of calm and order. This is not just true of this coup, it always has been like that, as that's the system most Thais have been socialized into. However, there is a honey moon period after which people begin to tire... right now I'd suggest that most PT voters probably won't be too happy, most Democrat voters will probably be content if not very happy and many others are on the fence. Whether the honey moon period lasts depends on the moves they make in the near future. The coup boosters are applauding them now but the junta hasn't faced any serious obstacles yet. The easy part was taking power...

[ballpoint]

I'll keep that in mind next time I need to know an 18th Century Scottish Judge's cynical view on contemporary democracy.

I guess you feel the same way about 18th Century: Isaac Newton.

The Reds have little regard for any law that can't be corrupted to suit their needs. Including the law of gravity.

[heybruce]

Asiantravel, first, there are not millions of Thai faithful to a political party and not even to voting. Party loyalty is purchased, absentee ballots are purchased, and lots of intimidation is around. There are a few thousand Reds funded by Thaksin who purchased their loyalty (and who must be running to find another tit to live on now) within his political machine.

Then, you can see a few Westerner typists on blogs taking a kneejerk reaction to Thailand by applying their own standards to conditions here which are very different. But the Knee Jerks keep spouting "democracy," "elections," "majority" (even tho the reds never got a majority), and so on. Some Knee Jerk national foreign policy mouthpieces, like Kerry, can use this situation here (or "human rights" used on Red China) as a way to 'lord over' another nation.

Big money news media then joins in with their artificially created drama, posing the 'poor and democratic' against the 'rich and powerful.' That is an easy story to write even from the balcony of the 'reporter's' 5 star hotel room and sells easily to Knee Jerks in the West.

Too, Westerners will jump on the bandwagon and become overnight defenders of freedom, democracy (of what kind?), the poor, and other issues and people that they can feel culturally imperialistically superior to in a fake adopted idea of teaching the little brown people how to do things properly. That is an ugly stance and Thai are not fooled and can see thru arrogant Western chest beating as just ignorant and fake.

So there!

Alexander Fraser Tytler - "A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of history has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; From spiritual faith to great courage; From courage to liberty; From liberty to abundance; From abundance to selfishness; From selfishness to complacency; From complacency to apathy; From apathy to dependence; From dependence back into bondage."

We're not surprised to learn that you don't like democracy. What do you suggest as a better form of government?

An election does not a democracy make. "Elections Do Not Make Democracy" "Democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where 51% of the people may take away the rights of the other 49%."

"But when you talk about destruction. Don't you know that you can count me out. But if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao. You ain't going to make it with anyone anyhow."

We get it; you don't like democracy, or at least not when you disagree with the election results. Now tell us what you think should replace it.

[sumtingwong]

The world is lousy with totalitarian regimes that have elections. I would not want to live under any of them.

[pjmansions]

The situation we were in before the coup could't remain a caretaker government had no spending powers and a budget for 2015 needed to be agreed upon or face ruin next year.

The people on all sides wanted reforms and the General seems to be doing that the curfew has now been lifted the streets are quiet of red and yellow shirt mobs trying to kill each other and any bystanders who get in the way

Do i want an elected government back in Thailand? yes. but want the problems sorted first so we don't go full circle with politicians who just try to line their own pockets and ignore the plights of the Thai people

so International press etc take a chill pill

[rabas]

Alexander Fraser Tytler - "A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world's greatest civilizations from the beginning of history has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; From spiritual faith to great courage; From courage to liberty; From liberty to abundance; From abundance to selfishness; From selfishness to complacency; From complacency to apathy; From apathy to dependence; From dependence back into bondage."

We're not surprised to learn that you don't like democracy. What do you suggest as a better form of government?

An election does not a democracy make. "Elections Do Not Make Democracy" "Democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where 51% of the people may take away the rights of the other 49%."

"But when you talk about destruction. Don't you know that you can count me out. But if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao. You ain't going to make it with anyone anyhow."

We get it; you don't like democracy, or at least not when you disagree with the election results. Now tell us what you think should replace it.

Um, a world without greedy, lying politicians where humans are honest and able to organize their own destiny for the good of all?

[fab4]

The world is lousy with totalitarian regimes that have elections. I would not want to live under any of them.

You'd rather live under one without elections?

[ginjag]

We're not surprised to learn that you don't like democracy. What do you suggest as a better form of government?

An election does not a democracy make. "Elections Do Not Make Democracy" "Democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where 51% of the people may take away the rights of the other 49%."

"But when you talk about destruction. Don't you know that you can count me out. But if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao. You ain't going to make it with anyone anyhow."

We get it; you don't like democracy, or at least not when you disagree with the election results. Now tell us what you think should replace it.

Quote "We get it" how many is we ??

Thailand did not get democracy when PTP were democratically elected --so what is your style democracy ??? elect them in again and they rule undemocratically again. DOH.

Lets face it until Thailand is cleaned up with a fine tooth comb (as is being done this minute) Democracy will not exist.

Repeat after me---"Elections do not make democracy" repeat it again please. DOH.

[ginjag]

The world is lousy with totalitarian regimes that have elections. I would not want to live under any of them.

You'd rather live under one without elections?

At the moment Fab4 YES, if you do not think that Thailand does not need cleansing a bit, go for your elections and you will get the same results as 2011.

You think that is a good move ??

Clean a lot of slag off the iron, sort out and iron out the admin problems and go for elections---you afraid of what. Your party not being returned ???

Because at this moment in time they have no chance and as things progress, more remote chance. Sorry karma.

[fab4]

The world is lousy with totalitarian regimes that have elections. I would not want to live under any of them.

You'd rather live under one without elections?

At the moment Fab4 YES, if you do not think that Thailand does not need cleansing a bit, go for your elections and you will get the same results as 2011.

You think that is a good move ??

Clean a lot of slag off the iron, sort out and iron out the admin problems and go for elections---you afraid of what. Your party not being returned ???

Because at this moment in time they have no chance and as things progress, more remote chance. Sorry karma.

It's going to be one loooooonnnng moment. Good luck with your coup, you deserve it, really, you do.

[ginjag]

The world is lousy with totalitarian regimes that have elections. I would not want to live under any of them.

You'd rather live under one without elections?

At the moment Fab4 YES, if you do not think that Thailand does not need cleansing a bit, go for your elections and you will get the same results as 2011.

You think that is a good move ??

Clean a lot of slag off the iron, sort out and iron out the admin problems and go for elections---you afraid of what. Your party not being returned ???

Because at this moment in time they have no chance and as things progress, more remote chance. Sorry karma.

It's going to be one loooooonnnng moment. Good luck with your coup, you deserve it, really, you do.

Use the word coup if you think it sounds bad ---I prefer cleansing.

[fab4]

Use the word coup if you think it sounds bad ---I prefer cleansing.

The junta prefer "military intervention", it's still a coup. I presume you are aware of the attributes generally afforded to the word cleansing in this context, not a good choice.

Edited June 14, 2014 by fab4

[ginjag]

Use the word coup if you think it sounds bad ---I prefer cleansing.

The junta prefer "military intervention", it's still a coup. I presume you are aware of the attributes generally afforded to the word cleansing in this context, not a good choice.

Whatever it is in the book makes no difference if the results for the Thai nation are positive.

You can keep using this COUP --military intervention till the cows come home--an invasion would have been good if it was to clean Thailand of a corrupt PTP.

(the invasion was not a good choice) but you get my point.

When you can see the early results of the COUP, what on earth is agranoying you ?? because the Shins lost the bike race ??

Use most of your posts attacking the coup, but rarely you attacked the Shins ??? why was that. Even when they ruled Undemocratically.

I said before you used Suthep--Dems-as any divert from PTP rule, now it's the army turn to take the wrath of your remarks---sorry sounds on the face of it---poor loser.

[Thaddeus]

Use the word coup if you think it sounds bad ---I prefer cleansing.

The junta prefer "military intervention", it's still a coup. I presume you are aware of the attributes generally afforded to the word cleansing in this context, not a good choice.

That depends on if the military are using detergent or napalm.

Looks like soapy suds so far.

Edited June 14, 2014 by Thaddeus

[fab4]

Use the word coup if you think it sounds bad ---I prefer cleansing.

The junta prefer "military intervention", it's still a coup. I presume you are aware of the attributes generally afforded to the word cleansing in this context, not a good choice.

Whatever it is in the book makes no difference if the results for the Thai nation are positive.

You can keep using this COUP --military intervention till the cows come home--an invasion would have been good if it was to clean Thailand of a corrupt PTP.

(the invasion was not a good choice) but you get my point.

When you can see the early results of the COUP, what on earth is agranoying you ?? because the Shins lost the bike race ??

Use most of your posts attacking the coup, but rarely you attacked the Shins ??? why was that. Even when they ruled Undemocratically.

I said before you used Suthep--Dems-as any divert from PTP rule, now it's the army turn to take the wrath of your remarks---sorry sounds on the face of it---poor loser.

Oh I don't know, maybe it's the abrogation of human rights, that sort of thing

[Piichai]

Thaksin wanted a coup so bad, and as things turned out he's not getting the traction he had hoped for.

Good job Prayuth!

[ginjag]

Use the word coup if you think it sounds bad ---I prefer cleansing.

The junta prefer "military intervention", it's still a coup. I presume you are aware of the attributes generally afforded to the word cleansing in this context, not a good choice.

Whatever it is in the book makes no difference if the results for the Thai nation are positive.

You can keep using this COUP --military intervention till the cows come home--an invasion would have been good if it was to clean Thailand of a corrupt PTP.

(the invasion was not a good choice) but you get my point.

When you can see the early results of the COUP, what on earth is agranoying you ?? because the Shins lost the bike race ??

Use most of your posts attacking the coup, but rarely you attacked the Shins ??? why was that. Even when they ruled Undemocratically.

I said before you used Suthep--Dems-as any divert from PTP rule, now it's the army turn to take the wrath of your remarks---sorry sounds on the face of it---poor loser.

Oh I don't know, maybe it's the abrogation of human rights, that sort of thing

What did Thaksin do for human rights -internationally he was scathed -especially over his J-killing.

Farmers human rights,

red army funded, did they give a toss for H/Rights.

If your party line was squeaky clean I could understand your comments BUT it wasn't---glass houses comes to mind.

[rabas]

Use the word coup if you think it sounds bad ---I prefer cleansing.

The junta prefer "military intervention", it's still a coup. I presume you are aware of the attributes generally afforded to the word cleansing in this context, not a good choice.

Sounds like you are far more worried about the military intervention working that not.

[billd766]

BREAKING NEWS!!!

Jonathan Head just gave a fairly balanced report on BBC World!!

I'm in a state of shock.

I need a cup of tea and a biscuit please.........

Do you have a link to that please?

[heybruce]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Well, the junta is doing a cracking job, don't you agree? More progress has been made in the last month than the last 3 years(admittedly the last 3 yrs we were regressing to a pure kleptocracy/mafia state). Once the shock and distress of losing the Shin's wears off I'm sure you will be singing the good generals praises.

A "cracking job"? I'm reminded of early 2001 in the US when some people were describing President George W. Bush as one of the greatest in history a few weeks after his inauguration.

For further details I'll refer you to an earlier post:

The military government is making some headlines and embarrassing the police. I suspect that if the police, or anyone else, were allowed an unrestricted investigation of the activities and the accounts of the military they could make some headlines as well.

In the real world in Thailand, there's still a curfew, still censorship, still soldiers on the streets and still creepy interruptions of television programs so the junta can announce dozens of names of people required to report to the government.

We still haven't seen the reforms, still don't know what the new constitution will look like, and still don't know when there will be elections. If the international pressure doesn't continue we may not see these things for a long time.

Am I correct in thinking your are one of many who prefer military government to democracy?

Can I correct YOU, most of us here on TVF prefer a military (temporary) government, than a Shin dictatorial one who ignored opposition and advice from no end of interested parties. Then it shot it's greedy self in the foot. Stupid PTP when they had 4 years to do good for Thailand and wasted 3 on themselves.

Who in hell wants to know about G,Bush ???

I try to understand --you post in favour of the most corrupt Shin government, But here you are slagging off the Army for saving Thailand from utter destruction.

My god talk about controversial people, you are one. what do you want ?? democracy ??? you had that chance when you were voted in and threw it away by being opposite to democracy.---Now you call the Army undemocratic ??? scans needed.

I'm not going over these details yet again, or point out your abuse of the English language and your apocalyptic predictions of the future. You have made it very clear that you divide the world into the good anti-Thaksin camps, and everything else, which is bad. In your mind since the military deposed an elected government associated with Thaksin they must be good, and all who oppose must be bad. I've tried pointing out the real world necessity of choosing the lesser of two evils and the advantages of a system where a bad government can be changed through elections, but this doesn't agree with your paradigm so you reject it.

By the way, I'm also not defending the elections again. The 2011 elections were monitored and judged valid, and future elections could have been conducted in the same manner.

[heybruce]

We're not surprised to learn that you don't like democracy. What do you suggest as a better form of government?

An election does not a democracy make. "Elections Do Not Make Democracy" "Democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where 51% of the people may take away the rights of the other 49%."

"But when you talk about destruction. Don't you know that you can count me out. But if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao. You ain't going to make it with anyone anyhow."

We get it; you don't like democracy, or at least not when you disagree with the election results. Now tell us what you think should replace it.

Quote "We get it" how many is we ??

Thailand did not get democracy when PTP were democratically elected --so what is your style democracy ??? elect them in again and they rule undemocratically again. DOH.

Lets face it until Thailand is cleaned up with a fine tooth comb (as is being done this minute) Democracy will not exist.

Repeat after me---"Elections do not make democracy" repeat it again please. DOH.

Repeat after me--"You can't have democracy without elections." Repeat it again please. DOH.

Now repeat--"It's still a democracy even if I don't like the results." Repeat it again please. DOH-DOH.

You're lucky in one regard, censorship prevents me from refuting you assumption that the current government will clean up society.

[heybruce]

Thaksin wanted a coup so bad, and as things turned out he's not getting the traction he had hoped for.

Good job Prayuth!

Thaksin wanted a coup? Can you defend that statement with references to verifiable facts?

[bigbamboo]

Of course it would lovely if the politicians could run the country but unfortunately they proved it was beyond them. So the general stepped in for the sake of the people like a teacher breaking up a playground scrap.

When the politicians have learned how to behave responsibly and not like bullies then they will be allowed to play unsupervised again.

[heybruce]

We're not surprised to learn that you don't like democracy. What do you suggest as a better form of government?

An election does not a democracy make. "Elections Do Not Make Democracy" "Democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where 51% of the people may take away the rights of the other 49%."

"But when you talk about destruction. Don't you know that you can count me out. But if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao. You ain't going to make it with anyone anyhow."

We get it; you don't like democracy, or at least not when you disagree with the election results. Now tell us what you think should replace it.

Um, a world without greedy, lying politicians where humans are honest and able to organize their own destiny for the good of all?

You want to live in a Disney movie?

[ginjag]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

A "cracking job"? I'm reminded of early 2001 in the US when some people were describing President George W. Bush as one of the greatest in history a few weeks after his inauguration.

For further details I'll refer you to an earlier post:

Am I correct in thinking your are one of many who prefer military government to democracy?

Can I correct YOU, most of us here on TVF prefer a military (temporary) government, than a Shin dictatorial one who ignored opposition and advice from no end of interested parties. Then it shot it's greedy self in the foot. Stupid PTP when they had 4 years to do good for Thailand and wasted 3 on themselves.

Who in hell wants to know about G,Bush ???

I try to understand --you post in favour of the most corrupt Shin government, But here you are slagging off the Army for saving Thailand from utter destruction.

My god talk about controversial people, you are one. what do you want ?? democracy ??? you had that chance when you were voted in and threw it away by being opposite to democracy.---Now you call the Army undemocratic ??? scans needed.

I'm not going over these details yet again, or point out your abuse of the English language and your apocalyptic predictions of the future. You have made it very clear that you divide the world into the good anti-Thaksin camps, and everything else, which is bad. In your mind since the military deposed an elected government associated with Thaksin they must be good, and all who oppose must be bad. I've tried pointing out the real world necessity of choosing the lesser of two evils and the advantages of a system where a bad government can be changed through elections, but this doesn't agree with your paradigm so you reject it.

By the way, I'm also not defending the elections again. The 2011 elections were monitored and judged valid, and future elections could have been conducted in the same manner.

Against the TVF rules for posters to point out less than perfect written English.

It's normally against the rules of normality to defend non democratic regimes PTP.

My future vision is that Thailand is free from the likes of YOUR clan Shins.

You still do not grasp that demo elected is not a free pass to abuse the laws of government.

I am trying to say no one needs the Thaksin style of government --3 year have just proved it.

The army are far better than the PTP for in a very short time have made PTP an embarrassment.

I reject to get best democratic results and sound government elections are not always the only way---this has just been proved.

2011 elections were to my mind valid on paper......but the process was blown away big time by PTP so elections are NOT the answer at the moment.

Don't you feel shy now that things are moving along pretty smoothly in less than a month far more achieved than the last 3 years. so why argue ??

Election coup Suthep Dems Yellows --you want anymore excuses. All this sower taste you have because you bid failed and Yingluck did notget the chance to do a repeat government for 4 more years---thank god.

Let it all rest--I want to see from you if the army slips up badly then I will more than likely be a critic of them.

Does my nice short sentences suit your reading or is it still bad writing. ?? cheer up don't get your red knickers in a twist and enjoy.

[ginjag]

Thaksin wanted a coup so bad, and as things turned out he's not getting the traction he had hoped for.

Good job Prayuth!

Thaksin wanted a coup? Can you defend that statement with references to verifiable facts?

With his strength at the time with the reds uprising to stir up trouble it did seem that way, and because of that voting power a coup would have been in his favour saying it was their intervention. He thought this would give him further power in ballots.

Big problem happened when the findings by the courts and the exposure tipped the balance, the reds were threatening BKK etc, so Prayuth stepped in to prevent bloodshed.

To this day the improvements and ideas have way outshone anything that PTP did so it now looks like the Shins will not regain anything.

[rabas]

An election does not a democracy make. "Elections Do Not Make Democracy" "Democracy is nothing more than mob rule, where 51% of the people may take away the rights of the other 49%."

"But when you talk about destruction. Don't you know that you can count me out. But if you go carrying pictures of Chairman Mao. You ain't going to make it with anyone anyhow."

We get it; you don't like democracy, or at least not when you disagree with the election results. Now tell us what you think should replace it.

Um, a world without greedy, lying politicians where humans are honest and able to organize their own destiny for the good of all?

You want to live in a Disney movie?

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.

-- George Bernard Shaw

[heybruce]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

A "cracking job"? I'm reminded of early 2001 in the US when some people were describing President George W. Bush as one of the greatest in history a few weeks after his inauguration.

For further details I'll refer you to an earlier post:

Am I correct in thinking your are one of many who prefer military government to democracy?

Can I correct YOU, most of us here on TVF prefer a military (temporary) government, than a Shin dictatorial one who ignored opposition and advice from no end of interested parties. Then it shot it's greedy self in the foot. Stupid PTP when they had 4 years to do good for Thailand and wasted 3 on themselves.

Who in hell wants to know about G,Bush ???

I try to understand --you post in favour of the most corrupt Shin government, But here you are slagging off the Army for saving Thailand from utter destruction.

My god talk about controversial people, you are one. what do you want ?? democracy ??? you had that chance when you were voted in and threw it away by being opposite to democracy.---Now you call the Army undemocratic ??? scans needed.

I'm not going over these details yet again, or point out your abuse of the English language and your apocalyptic predictions of the future. You have made it very clear that you divide the world into the good anti-Thaksin camps, and everything else, which is bad. In your mind since the military deposed an elected government associated with Thaksin they must be good, and all who oppose must be bad. I've tried pointing out the real world necessity of choosing the lesser of two evils and the advantages of a system where a bad government can be changed through elections, but this doesn't agree with your paradigm so you reject it.

By the way, I'm also not defending the elections again. The 2011 elections were monitored and judged valid, and future elections could have been conducted in the same manner.

Against the TVF rules for posters to point out less than perfect written English.

It's normally against the rules of normality to defend non democratic regimes PTP.

My future vision is that Thailand is free from the likes of YOUR clan Shins.

You still do not grasp that demo elected is not a free pass to abuse the laws of government.

I am trying to say no one needs the Thaksin style of government --3 year have just proved it.

The army are far better than the PTP for in a very short time have made PTP an embarrassment.

I reject to get best democratic results and sound government elections are not always the only way---this has just been proved.

2011 elections were to my mind valid on paper......but the process was blown away big time by PTP so elections are NOT the answer at the moment.

Don't you feel shy now that things are moving along pretty smoothly in less than a month far more achieved than the last 3 years. so why argue ??

Election coup Suthep Dems Yellows --you want anymore excuses. All this sower taste you have because you bid failed and Yingluck did notget the chance to do a repeat government for 4 more years---thank god.

Let it all rest--I want to see from you if the army slips up badly then I will more than likely be a critic of them.

Does my nice short sentences suit your reading or is it still bad writing. ?? cheer up don't get your red knickers in a twist and enjoy.

"Does my nice short sentences suit your reading or is it still bad writing."

It's still pretty bad. Is English your first language?

I pointed out the foolishness of drawing broad conclusions based on a few weeks performance in an earlier post using a President Bush analogy, and you didn't get it. I won't try again.

You don't develop a mature, functioning democracy by letting the military topple the government and rewrite the constitution every five to ten years. I also don't put the military on as high a pedestal as you and many others do. However under current rules I can't expand on either of these points.