International alarm mounts over Thai coup

[rubl]

Excellent summary, well done!

As I stated earlier, if you only support democracy when you agree with the election results, your not a supporter of democracy, you're an opportunist.

Yep, also people are rather shortsighted here. The same justifications have been continually made for coups in the past, and post-coup the same "problems" with the parliamentary system have always returned. Why should it be different this time? OK, maybe the system could be rigged so you get a half-democratic system like you had with Prem in the 80s, but what makes people so sure that would be accepted by most Thais? If you keep taking people's chance to exercise their own reason, you never allow them to grow up and learn from their mistakes. We've seen corrupt and poor governments throughout the history of the UK and US. What we didn't have is constant coups by a military and establishment that kept insisting people weren't ready for democracy.

An election as wonder medicine for problems which no government seems to be willing to tackle and some seem only willing to use to further their own (or big brothers cause) seems a clear indication that all references to 'but in a democracy' cannot be applied to Thailand.

Keeping peoples chance to exercise their own reason? You probably meant their own rights. With an age old patronage system in place, yes even or even more so upcountry, there's no such thing.

To compare the UK and USA with Thailand as far as development and democracy level is concerned seems somewhat hilarious. Unfortunately in this case poor Thailand.

If the international community would put pressure on the NCPO to guide their reforms Thailand's democracy may have a chance. To simply denounce the NCPO and 'demand' elections is just condemning Thailand to more of the same.

[northernjohn]

Have your democratically elected PTP back, good for Thailand ?? PEWK

They wouldn't be 'my' government. I don't have a vote. But if the Thai people choose to elect a government that I disapprove of, so be it. I don't much like David Cameron and the Tories, I hated George W. Bush and Obama has lost his way. No one is claiming that democracy always results in good governments, but arguing that a military coup is preferable is naïve.

Excellent summary, well done!

As I stated earlier, if you only support democracy when you agree with the election results, your not a supporter of democracy, you're an opportunist.

Well here we are 26 days into the coup and I am darned if I see any thing to do with

International alarm mounts over Thai coup

Which is what the topic is.

Just a bunch of sniveling whiners because the corruption channels have been closed for most things.

They are the type who prefer to live in pig sty's rather than fancy houses.

[Roadman]

The thread topic has been dead for the best part of the 26 days as the international alarm mounting peaked to the grandeur of a wee knoll within the first few days.

All this thread is now is a final soap box stand for a few to peddle the illusion that Thailand with its failed politicial governance actually had a functioning democracy to lose. Perhaps Yingluck could give a Mongolian world wide parroting tour on sandman democracy to revitalise the illusion....oh jolly gosh there goes my bedside alarm waking me up. Noisy little alarm and it didn't last long either.

Pleasing to see the junta and the countries representatives are out there pressing the flesh in the international community and winning over confidence and support for Thailand to implement a lawful politicial platform for the country to move forward towards elections.

Edited June 17, 2014 by Roadman

[heybruce]

The thread topic has been dead for the best part of the 26 days as the international alarm mounting peaked to the grandeur of a wee knoll within the first few days.

All this thread is now is a final soap box stand for a few to peddle the illusion that Thailand with its failed politicial governance actually had a functioning democracy to lose. Perhaps Yingluck could give a Mongolian world wide parroting tour on sandman democracy to revitalise the illusion....oh jolly gosh there goes my bedside alarm waking me up. Noisy little alarm and it didn't last long either.

Pleasing to see the junta and the countries representatives are out there pressing the flesh in the international community and winning over confidence and support for Thailand to implement a lawful politicial platform for the country to move forward towards elections.

The coup is no longer front page news in the international press, it has been replaced by other stories. International alarm, if it ever was alarm, has been replaced with international ostracism by democratic nations. As far as a lawful political platform, that's easy when you make up the laws as you go.

Some tiny minded people can only see the world as pro-red or anti-red, and they assume anything anti-red is good. They just can't accept that some people, who have no fondness for the PTP or the Shinawatra's, prefer an immature and flawed democracy to a military government. Immature and flawed democracies can mature and improve, military governments don't have a great track record.

Edited June 17, 2014 by heybruce

[Dumu Ali]

the foreign presstitutes thought they could make Thailand a Libya or Iraq but with all their PR they could beat the power of Buddha and so the world now laughs at the BS churned out by the BBC propaganda machine and all the idiots hungry for attention like the German that runs round causing trouble making this a great lesson for corrupt medias

[metisdead]

26) Bangkok Post do not allow quotes from their news articles or other material to appear on Thaivisa.com. Neither do they allow links to their publications. Posts from members containing quotes from or links to Bangkok Post publications will be deleted from the forum. Please note that this is a decision by the Bangkok Post, not by Thaivisa.com and any complaints or other issues concerning this rule should be directed to them. Quotes from and links to Phuketwan are also not allowed and will also be removed. In special cases forum Administrators or the news team may use these sources.

A post in violation of this forum rule has been removed.

[metisdead]

Off topic obfuscation and nonsense posts and replies have been removed.

[fab4]

BRUSSELS Wed Jun 18, 2014 8:46am EDT

The European Union will delay signing an agreement on closer economic and political ties with Thailand and demands a swift return to democracy following the country's military coup, according to a draft document seen by Reuters on Wednesday.

"Official visits to and from Thailand have been suspended; the EU and its member states will not sign the Partnership and Cooperation Agreement with Thailand, until a democratically elected government is in place," said the draft, drawn up for adoption by the bloc's foreign ministers next Monday.

"Other agreements will, as appropriate, be affected. EU member states have already begun to review their military cooperation with Thailand," said the document, which is still being discussed by EU officials and could change.

The Partnership and Cooperation Agreement, completed last November but yet to be ratified, would boost cooperation in tourism, employment, education, migration, transport and environment as well as allow for a closer political dialogue.

The draft statement said the EU would keep its relations with the southeast Asian kingdom under review and would consider further possible measures, depending on circumstances.

"Only an early and credible roadmap for a return to constitutional rule and the holding of credible and inclusive elections will allow for the EU's continued support," it said.

The EU urged the Thai military "to restore, as a matter of urgency, the legitimate democratic process and the constitution, through credible and inclusive elections". It also demanded the release of all political detainees and an end to censorship.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/06/18/us-thailand-eu-idUSKBN0ET1IL20140618

Edited June 19, 2014 by fab4

[thaibeachlovers]

BRUSSELS Wed Jun 18, 2014 8:46am EDT

The European Union will delay signing an agreement on closer economic and political ties with Thailand and demands a swift return to democracy following the country's military coup, according to a draft document seen by Reuters on Wednesday.

"Official visits to and from Thailand have been suspended; the EU and its member states will not sign the Partnership and Cooperation Agreement with Thailand, until a democratically elected government is in place," said the draft, drawn up for adoption by the bloc's foreign ministers next Monday.

"Other agreements will, as appropriate, be affected. EU member states have already begun to review their military cooperation with Thailand," said the document, which is still being discussed by EU officials and could change.

The Partnership and Cooperation Agreement, completed last November but yet to be ratified, would boost cooperation in tourism, employment, education, migration, transport and environment as well as allow for a closer political dialogue.

The draft statement said the EU would keep its relations with the southeast Asian kingdom under review and would consider further possible measures, depending on circumstances.

"Only an early and credible roadmap for a return to constitutional rule and the holding of credible and inclusive elections will allow for the EU's continued support," it said.

The EU urged the Thai military "to restore, as a matter of urgency, the legitimate democratic process and the constitution, through credible and inclusive elections". It also demanded the release of all political detainees and an end to censorship.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/06/18/us-thailand-eu-idUSKBN0ET1IL20140618

MEPs demanding a "return to democracy" is hilarious, given that they are completely undemocratic themselves, not to mention corrupt.

[fab4]

BRUSSELS Wed Jun 18, 2014 8:46am EDT

The European Union will delay signing an agreement on closer economic and political ties with Thailand and demands a swift return to democracy following the country's military coup, according to a draft document seen by Reuters on Wednesday.

"Official visits to and from Thailand have been suspended; the EU and its member states will not sign the Partnership and Cooperation Agreement with Thailand, until a democratically elected government is in place," said the draft, drawn up for adoption by the bloc's foreign ministers next Monday.

"Other agreements will, as appropriate, be affected. EU member states have already begun to review their military cooperation with Thailand," said the document, which is still being discussed by EU officials and could change.

The Partnership and Cooperation Agreement, completed last November but yet to be ratified, would boost cooperation in tourism, employment, education, migration, transport and environment as well as allow for a closer political dialogue.

The draft statement said the EU would keep its relations with the southeast Asian kingdom under review and would consider further possible measures, depending on circumstances.

"Only an early and credible roadmap for a return to constitutional rule and the holding of credible and inclusive elections will allow for the EU's continued support," it said.

The EU urged the Thai military "to restore, as a matter of urgency, the legitimate democratic process and the constitution, through credible and inclusive elections". It also demanded the release of all political detainees and an end to censorship.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/06/18/us-thailand-eu-idUSKBN0ET1IL20140618

MEPs demanding a "return to democracy" is hilarious, given that they are completely undemocratic themselves, not to mention corrupt.

It's the European Union taking a stance, not individual MEP's, but if you want to detract from the message being made, feel free.

[bkkstooge]

the foreign presstitutes thought they could make Thailand a Libya or Iraq but with all their PR they could beat the power of Buddha and so the world now laughs at the BS churned out by the BBC propaganda machine and all the idiots hungry for attention like the German that runs round causing trouble making this a great lesson for corrupt medias

I totally agree with your comments, however because of the utter c**p that has been reported by Beeb or to be more precise J.R.Head over the last few months families and mine in particular in the UK have been very concerned about their relatives here in the LOS.

Edited June 19, 2014 by bkkstooge

[tonbridgebrit]

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/politics/EU-may-delay-signing-pact-with-Thailand-30236678.html

EU may delay signing pact with Thailand

Reuters
Brussels June 20, 2014 1:00 am

The European Union has decided it will delay signing an agreement on closer economic and political ties with Thailand and is demanding a swift return to democracy, a draft document seen by Reuters on Wednesday showed.

General Prayuth Chan-ocha seized power in May, vowing to restore order and push through reforms following six months of political turmoil.

"Official visits to and from Thailand have been suspended; the EU and its member states will not sign the Partnership and Cooperation Agreement with Thailand, until a democratically elected government is in place," said the draft, drawn up for adoption by the bloc's foreign ministers next Monday.

"Other agreements will, as appropriate, be affected. EU member states have already started to review their military cooperation with Thailand," said the document, which is still being discussed by EU officials and could change.

The Partnership and Cooperation Agreement, completed last November but yet to be ratified, would boost cooperation in tourism, employment, education, migration, transport and environment as well as allow for a closer political dialogue.

It was unclear whether ongoing negotiations on a bilateral free trade agreement would be affected.

Goods traded between the EU and Thailand totalled around 32 billion euros (Bt1.4 trillion) in 2013, according to EU data.

Relations 'under review'

The draft statement said the EU would keep its relations with the Kingdom under review and would consider further possible measures, depending on circumstances.

"Only an early and credible roadmap for a return to constitutional rule and the holding of credible and inclusive elections will allow for EU's continued support," it said.

The EU urged the Thai military "to restore, as a matter of urgency, the legitimate democratic process and the Constitution, through credible and inclusive elections". It also demanded the release of all political detainees and an end to censorship.

Prayuth said on May 30 a process of reconciliation between political factions and reforms would take about a year and a general election would only be held after that.

The EU document said this announcement fell short of a credible roadmap for a return to constitutional rule.


(The above is an article from the Nation newspaper, in Thailand.)

[thaibeachlovers]

MEPs demanding a "return to democracy" is hilarious, given that they are completely undemocratic themselves, not to mention corrupt.

It's the European Union taking a stance, not individual MEP's, but if you want to detract from the message being made, feel free.

Excuse me, but the EU isn't a person and I presume the MEPs are the ones speaking for it. Or it could be some of those unelected and undemocratic bureaucrats that like to think they run it. Whatever, they're mainly hypocrytes with a few exceptions like Nigel Farage.

Some posts deleted to allow me to post.

[fab4]

MEPs demanding a "return to democracy" is hilarious, given that they are completely undemocratic themselves, not to mention corrupt.

It's the European Union taking a stance, not individual MEP's, but if you want to detract from the message being made, feel free.

Excuse me, but the EU isn't a person and I presume the MEPs are the ones speaking for it. Or it could be some of those unelected and undemocratic bureaucrats that like to think they run it. Whatever, they're mainly hypocrytes with a few exceptions like Nigel Farage.

Nigel Farage is certainly an exception but I'll leave it at that. Meanwhile your point about the EU not being a person is one I've not thought about before, no, really .

In the real world the individual MEP's that make up the non person EU have come up with some conclusions on Thailand. There are five conclusions but these three are the ones that matter

COUNCIL OF THE EUROPEAN UNION

Council conclusions on Thailand

FOREIGN AFFAIRS Council meeting

Luxembourg, 23 June 2014

2. It was therefore with extreme concern that the Council has followed recent developments in Thailand. It called on the military leadership to restore, as a matter of urgency, the legitimate democratic process and the Constitution, through credible and inclusive elections. The Council also called on all parties to exercise the utmost restraint. Respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms must be upheld. Furthermore the Council urged military authorities to free all political detainees, to refrain from any further arrests for political reasons and to remove censorship.

3. The military leadership's recent announcement falls short of the credible roadmap for a return to constitutional rule which the situation requires. Fully functioning democratic institutions must be brought back to ensure the protection and welfare of all citizens.

4. Against this background, the EU is forced to reconsider its engagement. Official visits to and from Thailand have been suspended; the EU and its Member States will not sign the Partnership and Cooperation Agreement with Thailand, until a democratically elected government is in place. Other agreements will, as appropriate, be affected. EU Member States have already begun to review their military cooperation with Thailand.

http://consilium.europa.eu/uedocs/cms_data/docs/pressdata/EN/foraff/143330.pdf

Edited June 23, 2014 by fab4

[rubl]

Excuse me, but the EU isn't a person and I presume the MEPs are the ones speaking for it. Or it could be some of those unelected and undemocratic bureaucrats that like to think they run it. Whatever, they're mainly hypocrytes with a few exceptions like Nigel Farage.

Nigel Farage is certainly an exception but I'll leave it at that. Meanwhile your point about the EU not being a person is one I've not thought about before, no, really .

In the real world the individual MEP's that make up the non person EU have come up with some conclusions on Thailand. There are five conclusions but these three are the ones that matter

COUNCIL OF THE EUROPEAN UNION

Council conclusions on Thailand

FOREIGN AFFAIRS Council meeting

Luxembourg, 23 June 2014

2. It was therefore with extreme concern that the Council has followed recent developments in Thailand. It called on the military leadership to restore, as a matter of urgency, the legitimate democratic process and the Constitution, through credible and inclusive elections. The Council also called on all parties to exercise the utmost restraint. Respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms must be upheld. Furthermore the Council urged military authorities to free all political detainees, to refrain from any further arrests for political reasons and to remove censorship.

3. The military leadership's recent announcement falls short of the credible roadmap for a return to constitutional rule which the situation requires. Fully functioning democratic institutions must be brought back to ensure the protection and welfare of all citizens.

4. Against this background, the EU is forced to reconsider its engagement. Official visits to and from Thailand have been suspended; the EU and its Member States will not sign the Partnership and Cooperation Agreement with Thailand, until a democratically elected government is in place. Other agreements will, as appropriate, be affected. EU Member States have already begun to review their military cooperation with Thailand.

http://consilium.europa.eu/uedocs/cms_data/docs/pressdata/EN/foraff/143330.pdf

Cherry picking, my dear chap? I would think the last conclusion to be really revealing:

"5. Only an early and credible roadmap for a return to constitutional rule and the holding of

credible and inclusive elections will allow for the EU's continued support. The Council

decided that the EU will keep its relations with Thailand under review and will consider

further possible measures, depending on circumstances."

The 'under review' and 'depending on circumstances' seems to indicate as much as 'no action for now'

[rubl]

Mind you, my friend fab4 was at least in part right:

"EU suspends official trips and partnership with Thailand

BANGKOK: -- The European Union has suspended official visits to and from Thailand as well as the Partnership and Cooperation Agreement with Thailand, highlighting its call for the immediate restoration of the legitimate democratic process and the Constitution.

In a statement following its meeting today in Luxembourg, the European Union’s Foreign Affairs Council said that the suspension would stay until a democratically elected government is in place.

-- The Nation 2014-06-23"

I wonder though if the EU is aware that about everyone and his dog wants to amend the constitution for whatever reason. To try to 'force' Thailand to embrace it (again) seems somewhat hilarious. Furthermore there is doubt if the legitimate process in Thailand had much to do with democracy.

[fab4]

Excuse me, but the EU isn't a person and I presume the MEPs are the ones speaking for it. Or it could be some of those unelected and undemocratic bureaucrats that like to think they run it. Whatever, they're mainly hypocrytes with a few exceptions like Nigel Farage.

Nigel Farage is certainly an exception but I'll leave it at that. Meanwhile your point about the EU not being a person is one I've not thought about before, no, really .

In the real world the individual MEP's that make up the non person EU have come up with some conclusions on Thailand. There are five conclusions but these three are the ones that matter

COUNCIL OF THE EUROPEAN UNION

Council conclusions on Thailand

FOREIGN AFFAIRS Council meeting

Luxembourg, 23 June 2014

2. It was therefore with extreme concern that the Council has followed recent developments in Thailand. It called on the military leadership to restore, as a matter of urgency, the legitimate democratic process and the Constitution, through credible and inclusive elections. The Council also called on all parties to exercise the utmost restraint. Respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms must be upheld. Furthermore the Council urged military authorities to free all political detainees, to refrain from any further arrests for political reasons and to remove censorship.

3. The military leadership's recent announcement falls short of the credible roadmap for a return to constitutional rule which the situation requires. Fully functioning democratic institutions must be brought back to ensure the protection and welfare of all citizens.

4. Against this background, the EU is forced to reconsider its engagement. Official visits to and from Thailand have been suspended; the EU and its Member States will not sign the Partnership and Cooperation Agreement with Thailand, until a democratically elected government is in place. Other agreements will, as appropriate, be affected. EU Member States have already begun to review their military cooperation with Thailand.

http://consilium.europa.eu/uedocs/cms_data/docs/pressdata/EN/foraff/143330.pdf

Cherry picking, my dear chap? I would think the last conclusion to be really revealing:

"5. Only an early and credible roadmap for a return to constitutional rule and the holding of

credible and inclusive elections will allow for the EU's continued support. The Council

decided that the EU will keep its relations with Thailand under review and will consider

further possible measures, depending on circumstances."

The 'under review' and 'depending on circumstances' seems to indicate as much as 'no action for now'

Didn't think it would take long before you came along with your happy clappy rhetoric.

Not cherrypicking at all. I suppose in your haste to find something that you have interpreted as "good" in this damning statement you overlooked the following

4. Against this background, the EU is forced to reconsider its engagement. Official visits to and from Thailand have been suspended; the EU and its Member States will not sign the Partnership and Cooperation Agreement with Thailand, until a democratically elected government is in place. Other agreements will, as appropriate, be affected. EU Member States have already begun to review their military cooperation with Thailand.

That's what's happening now, not under review, or depending upon circumstance, now.

Once again your comprehension is lacking. Conclusion 5 is stating that until constitutional rule is in place (not interim appointed "government") and credible and inclusive elections are held THE EU will not be supporting the juntas actions, hence the penalties outlined in Conclusion 3. This could change if Conclusions 2 and 3 are complied with.

Your attempts at spin are embarrassing.

[fab4]

Mind you, my friend fab4 was at least in part right:

"EU suspends official trips and partnership with Thailand

BANGKOK: -- The European Union has suspended official visits to and from Thailand as well as the Partnership and Cooperation Agreement with Thailand, highlighting its call for the immediate restoration of the legitimate democratic process and the Constitution.

In a statement following its meeting today in Luxembourg, the European Union’s Foreign Affairs Council said that the suspension would stay until a democratically elected government is in place.

-- The Nation 2014-06-23"

I wonder though if the EU is aware that about everyone and his dog wants to amend the constitution for whatever reason. To try to 'force' Thailand to embrace it (again) seems somewhat hilarious. Furthermore there is doubt if the legitimate process in Thailand had much to do with democracy.

What part did I get wrong then rubl, care to enlighten us? Are you saying that the official press release from the EU is wrong, or is it the fact that you don't understand it that is causing you concern?

[englishoak]

Excuse me, but the EU isn't a person and I presume the MEPs are the ones speaking for it. Or it could be some of those unelected and undemocratic bureaucrats that like to think they run it. Whatever, they're mainly hypocrytes with a few exceptions like Nigel Farage.

Nigel Farage is certainly an exception but I'll leave it at that. Meanwhile your point about the EU not being a person is one I've not thought about before, no, really .

In the real world the individual MEP's that make up the non person EU have come up with some conclusions on Thailand. There are five conclusions but these three are the ones that matter

COUNCIL OF THE EUROPEAN UNION

Council conclusions on Thailand

FOREIGN AFFAIRS Council meeting

Luxembourg, 23 June 2014

2. It was therefore with extreme concern that the Council has followed recent developments in Thailand. It called on the military leadership to restore, as a matter of urgency, the legitimate democratic process and the Constitution, through credible and inclusive elections. The Council also called on all parties to exercise the utmost restraint. Respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms must be upheld. Furthermore the Council urged military authorities to free all political detainees, to refrain from any further arrests for political reasons and to remove censorship.

3. The military leadership's recent announcement falls short of the credible roadmap for a return to constitutional rule which the situation requires. Fully functioning democratic institutions must be brought back to ensure the protection and welfare of all citizens.

4. Against this background, the EU is forced to reconsider its engagement. Official visits to and from Thailand have been suspended; the EU and its Member States will not sign the Partnership and Cooperation Agreement with Thailand, until a democratically elected government is in place. Other agreements will, as appropriate, be affected. EU Member States have already begun to review their military cooperation with Thailand.

http://consilium.europa.eu/uedocs/cms_data/docs/pressdata/EN/foraff/143330.pdf

Cherry picking, my dear chap? I would think the last conclusion to be really revealing:

"5. Only an early and credible roadmap for a return to constitutional rule and the holding of

credible and inclusive elections will allow for the EU's continued support. The Council

decided that the EU will keep its relations with Thailand under review and will consider

further possible measures, depending on circumstances."

The 'under review' and 'depending on circumstances' seems to indicate as much as 'no action for now'

The report is damning and clear, why try to deny or spin it ?

No action means no agreements no ratification and no closer cooperation or ties under present circumstances.

In this case it means Thailand is not going to have a stamp of approval that it has been seeking. The EU is bound by its standards and that means it cannot and will not change its position until Thailand does. Also further visits on this subject are suspended and looks like other official trips may be too.

I dont see how you can say no action is good for Thailand. Its exactly the opposite but good try on spin.

[snottgoblin]

About time TV mopped up the Rouge propagandists, and got consistent with what can be posted.

[snottgoblin]

Well put. I find it rather sad to read so many posts from people from (presumably) democratic countries, justifying a military coup with all the censorship, curfews and detentions that have come with it. I'm no fan of the last government (but then fortunately I'm not Thai) however it's naive beyond belief to think that this is the solution to Thailand's problems.

Have your democratically elected PTP back, good for Thailand ?? PEWK

They wouldn't be 'my' government. I don't have a vote. But if the Thai people choose to elect a government that I disapprove of, so be it. I don't much like David Cameron and the Tories, I hated George W. Bush and Obama has lost his way. No one is claiming that democracy always results in good governments, but arguing that a military coup is preferable is naïve.

Excellent summary, well done!

As I stated earlier, if you only support democracy when you agree with the election results, your not a supporter of democracy, you're an opportunist.

Doesn't that sort of have a double meaning?

[fab4]

About time TV mopped up the Rouge propagandists, and got consistent with what can be posted.

You have a problem with a post just report it to the mods. Though they have asked members not to make frivolous reports - that includes reporting posts just because you don't happen to agree with either the content or the poster, or both.

[snottgoblin]

About time TV mopped up the Rouge propagandists, and got consistent with what can be posted.

You have a problem with a post just report it to the mods. Though they have asked members not to make frivolous reports - that includes reporting posts just because you don't happen to agree with either the content or the poster, or both.

Something you may be familiar with then.

[northernjohn]

Have your democratically elected PTP back, good for Thailand ?? PEWK

They wouldn't be 'my' government. I don't have a vote. But if the Thai people choose to elect a government that I disapprove of, so be it. I don't much like David Cameron and the Tories, I hated George W. Bush and Obama has lost his way. No one is claiming that democracy always results in good governments, but arguing that a military coup is preferable is naïve.

Excellent summary, well done!

As I stated earlier, if you only support democracy when you agree with the election results, your not a supporter of democracy, you're an opportunist.

Doesn't that sort of have a double meaning?Actually it is a stupid statement to make.

Actually it is a stupid statement.

It neglects to say that you may support the election but you do not have to support it when the government openly in your face robs you blind admits they lied and then say it is OK to lie because a lie makes you feel good and the truth you would not like. That is not what the people elected them for and the people have a right indeed a moral right to demand an end to it. They tried peacefully and the government just sent their PM on a shopping trip and called a convicted criminal on the run and living Dubai to escape a two year jail sentence impose on him by his own party. He instructed them to ignore the people.

Just dropping in again to see if the whiners and snivelers were still here. They should move to Miramar the corruption is worse there than it was under the PTP and they are a democracy. That way they would be able to have their cake and eat it to.

a win win situation for them.

[VegasVic]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Yes, it could be argued that the ideology of the southern tip provinces and the northern red-shirt provinces have both been at civil war against the rest of Thailand. They each want to impose their version of totalitarianism. I hope neither achieves it.

Right on partner! The only group that should be able to impose their version of totalitarianisim are the Thai-chinese Bangkok elite You are an effin hypocrite there sumti, but then again anyone who has read any of your posts already knows this

[VegasVic]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

They wouldn't be 'my' government. I don't have a vote. But if the Thai people choose to elect a government that I disapprove of, so be it. I don't much like David Cameron and the Tories, I hated George W. Bush and Obama has lost his way. No one is claiming that democracy always results in good governments, but arguing that a military coup is preferable is naïve.

Excellent summary, well done!

As I stated earlier, if you only support democracy when you agree with the election results, your not a supporter of democracy, you're an opportunis

Actually it is a stupid statement.

It neglects to say that you may support the election but you do not have to support it when the government openly in your face robs you blind admits they lied and then say it is OK to lie because a lie makes you feel good and the truth you would not like. That is not what the people elected them for and the people have a right indeed a moral right to demand an end to it. They tried peacefully and the government just sent their PM on a shopping trip and called a convicted criminal on the run and living Dubai to escape a two year jail sentence impose on him by his own party. He instructed them to ignore the people.

Just dropping in again to see if the whiners and snivelers were still here. They should move to Miramar the corruption is worse there than it was under the PTP and they are a democracy. That way they would be able to have their cake and eat it to.

a win win situation for them. width=20 alt=wai.gif>

NJ, I think the country you are searching for is Myanmar not Miramar, if memory serves I believe that Miramar is a Naval Air Station between LA and San Diego that holds the top gun fighter school For the record everyone I know both Thai and Farang still calls the country in question BURMA! I have talked to 3 individuals in different parts of Issan over the past week and they have all told me the same story about the Army going through everyones house and confiscating any and all weapons, sounds like Gen prayuth is continuing page by page right out of the NAZI playbook circa 1933, overthrow the elected government - tear up the constitution - declare martial law and set curfews - and the piece de resistance send the soldiers out to the countryside and disarm the farmers of their shotguns and pitchforks (I wonder if the good general is sending his troops throughout the southern provinces doing the same???) OK enough whining and sniveling for me, I hope I didn't knock you off your barstool there NJ

[VegasVic]

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

<script type='text/javascript'>window.mod_pagespeed_start = Number(new Date());</script>

Excellent summary, well done! As I stated earlier, if you only support democracy when you agree with the election results, your not a supp

Actually it is a stupid statement.

It neglects to say that you may support the election but you do not have to support it when the government openly in your face robs you blind admits they lied and then say it is OK to lie because a lie makes you feel good and the truth you would not like. That is not what the people elected them for and the people have a right indeed a moral right to demand an end to it. They tried peacefully and the government just sent their PM on a shopping trip and called a convicted criminal on the run and living Dubai to escape a two year jail sentence impose on him by his own party. He instructed them to ignore the people.

Just dropping in again to see if the whiners and snivelers were still here. They should move to Miramar the corruption is worse there than it was under the PTP and they are a democracy. That way they would be able to have their cake and eat it to.

a win win situation for them. width=20 alt=wai.gif>

NJ, I think the country you are searching for is Myanmar not Miramar, if memory serves I believe that Miramar is a Naval Air Station between LA and San Diego that holds the top gun fighter school alt=wai2.gif width=20 height=20> For the record everyone I know both Thai and Farang still calls the country in question BURMA! I have talked to 3 individuals in different parts of Issan over the past week and they have all told me the same story about the Army going through everyones house and confiscating any and all weapons, sounds like Gen prayuth is continuing page by page right out of the NAZI playbook circa 1933, overthrow the elected government - tear up the constitution - declare martial law and set curfews - and the piece de resistance send the soldiers out to the countryside and disarm the farmers of their shotguns and pitchforks (I wonder if the good general is sending his troops throughout the southern provinces doing the same???) OK enough whining and sniveling for me, I hope I didn't knock you off your barstool there NJ alt=biggrin.png>

Hmmm, I wonder if we will ever see a thread or story here on thaivisa on the illegal search and seizure of the folks in Issan???

[AleG]

This wringing of hands sounds very empty while this same governments, organizations and the resident nattering nabobs of negativism didn't find within themselves to condemn the "Yingluck" government from disregarding every principle of Democracy that didn't fit their agenda and at the very least allowed their supporters to murder people on the streets. Where were their calls of sticking to Democracy and human rights then from these people?

Things have concequences, now all of us have to bear with the concequences of Thaksin's abuse and subvertion of Democracy.

Edited June 24, 2014 by AleG

[timewilltell]

Excuse me, but the EU isn't a person and I presume the MEPs are the ones speaking for it. Or it could be some of those unelected and undemocratic bureaucrats that like to think they run it. Whatever, they're mainly hypocrytes with a few exceptions like Nigel Farage.

Nigel Farage is certainly an exception but I'll leave it at that. Meanwhile your point about the EU not being a person is one I've not thought about before, no, really .

In the real world the individual MEP's that make up the non person EU have come up with some conclusions on Thailand. There are five conclusions but these three are the ones that matter

COUNCIL OF THE EUROPEAN UNION

Council conclusions on Thailand

FOREIGN AFFAIRS Council meeting

Luxembourg, 23 June 2014

2. It was therefore with extreme concern that the Council has followed recent developments in Thailand. It called on the military leadership to restore, as a matter of urgency, the legitimate democratic process and the Constitution, through credible and inclusive elections. The Council also called on all parties to exercise the utmost restraint. Respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms must be upheld. Furthermore the Council urged military authorities to free all political detainees, to refrain from any further arrests for political reasons and to remove censorship.

3. The military leadership's recent announcement falls short of the credible roadmap for a return to constitutional rule which the situation requires. Fully functioning democratic institutions must be brought back to ensure the protection and welfare of all citizens.

4. Against this background, the EU is forced to reconsider its engagement. Official visits to and from Thailand have been suspended; the EU and its Member States will not sign the Partnership and Cooperation Agreement with Thailand, until a democratically elected government is in place. Other agreements will, as appropriate, be affected. EU Member States have already begun to review their military cooperation with Thailand.

http://consilium.europa.eu/uedocs/cms_data/docs/pressdata/EN/foraff/143330.pdf

Cherry picking, my dear chap? I would think the last conclusion to be really revealing:

"5. Only an early and credible roadmap for a return to constitutional rule and the holding of

credible and inclusive elections will allow for the EU's continued support. The Council

decided that the EU will keep its relations with Thailand under review and will consider

further possible measures, depending on circumstances."

The 'under review' and 'depending on circumstances' seems to indicate as much as 'no action for now'

Didn't think it would take long before you came along with your happy clappy rhetoric.

Not cherrypicking at all. I suppose in your haste to find something that you have interpreted as "good" in this damning statement you overlooked the following

4. Against this background, the EU is forced to reconsider its engagement. Official visits to and from Thailand have been suspended; the EU and its Member States will not sign the Partnership and Cooperation Agreement with Thailand, until a democratically elected government is in place. Other agreements will, as appropriate, be affected. EU Member States have already begun to review their military cooperation with Thailand.

That's what's happening now, not under review, or depending upon circumstance, now.

Once again your comprehension is lacking. Conclusion 5 is stating that until constitutional rule is in place (not interim appointed "government") and credible and inclusive elections are held THE EU will not be supporting the juntas actions, hence the penalties outlined in Conclusion 3. This could change if Conclusions 2 and 3 are complied with.

Your attempts at spin are embarrassing.

Yes the EU report is damning and significant. Unfortunately it fails to appreciate that Thailand already had an bad human rights record before the coup and that the politicians had done nothing over successive governments to clamp down on it and had repeatedly stolen vast sums from the national coffers. The EU with its overfed, ill informed and out of touch bureaucrats who seem to think Thailand's version of democracy is much the same as theirs. They probably also think Thailand's rule law is much the same as theirs. Neither are!

I am sure they do not fully understand what is going on, an I am sure

I don't either. There may come a time in the near future when democratic elections will be prudent and sensible. Perhaps the EU did not see that Thailand was on its way to civil war and the politicians had achieved zero compromise in the six months they were messing about, in fact they created even more hatred and divisiveness.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

[fab4]

Yes the EU report is damning and significant. Unfortunately it fails to appreciate that Thailand already had an bad human rights record before the coup and that the politicians had done nothing over successive governments to clamp down on it and had repeatedly stolen vast sums from the national coffers. The EU with its overfed, ill informed and out of touch bureaucrats who seem to think Thailand's version of democracy is much the same as theirs. They probably also think Thailand's rule law is much the same as theirs. Neither are!

I am sure they do not fully understand what is going on, an I am sure

I don't either. There may come a time in the near future when democratic elections will be prudent and sensible. Perhaps the EU did not see that Thailand was on its way to civil war and the politicians had achieved zero compromise in the six months they were messing about, in fact they created even more hatred and divisiveness.

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

You're saying that the EU have taken this issue solely because of the human rights record?

What part of this do you not understand

It called on the military leadership to restore, as a matter of urgency, the legitimate democratic process and the Constitution, through credible and inclusive elections. The Council also called on all parties to exercise the utmost restraint. Respect for human rights and fundamental freedoms must be upheld. Furthermore the Council urged military authorities to free all political detainees, to refrain from any further arrests for political reasons and to remove censorship.