Rice payments tomorrow

[smedly]

This will be the money that was not available to the ex government?

Yep.

This is the bit they couldn't skim off.

they already skimmed but have been caught short in mid program when the 2.2 trillion off budget loan was rejected and were unable to support the remaining part of the scam - paying of the farmers

[Piichai]

Good on Prayuth!

He managed to do in a couple days that which Yingluck refused to do months before Suthep hit the streets.

[Piichai]

well, now the former government knows what they needed to do to pay the farmers: throw out the constitution! anyone who thinks YS didn't want the farmers paid is too caught up in their own rhetoric to think clearly. they tried but they were blocked at every turn because the yellow's didn't want the farmers paid- much better for them if it was there to drive a wedge in the government's base.

but it sets a super great precedence: want thing done? throw out the constitution.

super.

Why did Yingluck stop paying the farmers months before Suthep hit the streets?

[issanaus]

This will be the money that was not available to the ex government?

Good question, I was wondering the same. I seem to recall (and I may very well be mistaken) that Yingluck tried to make payments recently, prior to her dismissal, to the farmers and was denied by either BoT or Parliament, can't remember which.

Also, and perhaps I don't understand the farmer/rice thing well enough, but if the 'rice pledging scheme' was such an outrageous crime perpetrated by the previous administration, why is it now suddenly okay? Or am I confusing two different issues?

I suppose it can be said this is a debt incurred by the Thai government which still has to be discharged. Imagine the mayhem if the farmers were told they would not be paid.

Next question is will the scheme be scaled back or abandoned completely ?

As I have stated in a post last week

I believe this needs a different approach, the farmers are struggling because of the cost associated with growing the rice - I think there is an organisation (should be investigated) pushing up the cost of materials which in turn pushes up the subsidies required to sustain the farming operation, the money eventually finds it's way to the corrupt front end of the farming industry - I'll bet that if investigated would uncover some very shady goings on and ownership - what a fine position to be in if you owned a fertilizer company and were also part of the government that approved the Rice Subsidy - inflate the fertilizer price and the money just channels right into your own pocket

It's time the lid was blown clean of this whole industry

There are 2 ways that farmers real incomes can be increased - reduce costs - increase productivity.

Vietnam has increasingly become more competitive - now other countries travel there to see how to grow rice

"The reason for SRIs growing popularity in Haiti is clear: Many farmers practicing this method have boosted their rice yields by 50 percent to 100 percent. They include two farmers associations supported by Oxfam America: Movement to Help the Women of Liancourt-Payen commune of Verrettes, and the Irrigators Association of Liancourt. The womens farming collective boosted its yield to seven tons per hectare, up from less than five tons the previous year, according to Marie Melisena Robert, president and founder of the 200-member group who was among those who traveled to Vietnam. The Irrigators Association, an association of 450 farmers, saw yields reach seven tons, up from less than four tons per hectare, says Hollange Antoine, the groups president."

http://www.oxfamamerica.org/explore/stories/lessons-learned-growing-rice-in-haiti-and-vietnam/

So why is this not promoted more in Thailand?

It uses less fertiliser

Less herbicides

Dose not rely on "special seeds"

can use tradition equipment

uses less water

Maybe because certain interest groups can see that they would lose money.

edit to include reference

Edited May 25, 2014 by issanaus

[Piichai]

"Security has been stepped up in Buri Ram at the provincial hall, train station, power stations and bus station to prevent ill-intentioned groups from staging violence"

Is that sentence from a different article? Where's the connection to rice payments and supporting soldiers?

Standard Thai reporting.

[chilizzz]

Anyone that cannot see what is going on here is an idiot.

The NACC always had the money.

The farmers are not stupid. They are happy to receive the money now, no doubt ...but they know why they didnt receive it earlier.

[Piichai]

Well, I certainly hope they do do pay some of what was promised to the farmers.

But, being cynical, I still don't believe it.

Not that I don't believe the new Junta doesn't honestly mean they want to pay the farmers, but frankly, where is the money going to come from?

If they can actually sell some of the old stockpiled Rice, even from this year's harvest ...... the real problem is that the Rice subsidy is still selling Rice at below market price.... or at least the pledge price they offered.

Maybe I'm a fool, and I don't understand this "new economics", but in my "old economics" if you buy something, then pay to store it for a couple of years, and then sell it for less than you bought it for in the first place ...... aren't you losing money?

Now hasn't that been the real problem of the Rice scheme all along?

So far most of the money allotted for the Rice scheme has been going to the people who have stored the Rice in their warehouses for 3 or 4 years already.

And it has NOT gone to farmers it was supposed to but the Rice merchants who are storing the Rice.

Unless the Rice is sold, those merchants who have the Rice in storage will be the one's who benefit and. as usual not the farmers who produced the Rice.

But, hey, what do I know anyhow.

Thailand has more money than you think. It wasn't that Yingluck stopped paying the farmers months before Suthep hit the streets because Thailand didn't have the cash; Yingluck stopped paying because the entire project was mismanaged.

Hopefully as the military gets to the bottom of things, they'll document and publish how the scam operated.

[issanaus]

Anyone that cannot see what is going on here is an idiot.

The NACC always had the money.

The farmers are not stupid. They are happy to receive the money now, no doubt ...but they know why they didnt receive it earlier.

Yes they do.

Just as the PTP was holding "reds" in prison as hostage for getting a amnesty for Thaksin. The payments for the farmers rice was used in the same way to ensure that a PTP government was returned.

[Piichai]

Anyone that cannot see what is going on here is an idiot.

The NACC always had the money.

The farmers are not stupid. They are happy to receive the money now, no doubt ...but they know why they didnt receive it earlier.

Why would you think NACC had any money?

Are you unaware what Yingluck did to the NACC budget?

The farmers do indeed know who didn't pay them. The farmers do indeed know who threatened them. And the farmers do indeed know who paid them just by snapping his fingers.

The farmers got promises from Thaksin, and results from Prayuth!

[aussieinthailand]

Well done Khun General Prayuth. One need not say more.

Edited to add well there is actually. It shows truly which person and group in Thailand has the people who are most needy at the center of their hearts. Wake up Issan the Army and this General is the best friend and ally you have going for you.

Ye'p pay the farmers, that's a good thing, well done, they need to be the first people who need to be paid...

Where I ask is the Suthep PROMISED audit of the bags of cash given to him??? has anyone seen it? Suthep's dog ate it???

Now I ask just who was it that threatened banks who wanted to accept loans from the government to pay farmers?

[rreddin]

This will be the money that was not available to the ex government?

Good question, I was wondering the same. I seem to recall (and I may very well be mistaken) that Yingluck tried to make payments recently, prior to her dismissal, to the farmers and was denied by either BoT or Parliament, can't remember which.

Also, and perhaps I don't understand the farmer/rice thing well enough, but if the 'rice pledging scheme' was such an outrageous crime perpetrated by the previous administration, why is it now suddenly okay? Or am I confusing two different issues?

You might also recall the BAAC's staff union oposing payments to the rice farmers as it would reduce the bank's reserves. Yet, this payment tomorrow is to be taken from those same reserves. Farmers are not stupid as some posters on this foum like to think. They know what is going on.

[casualbiker]

This will be the money that was not available to the ex government?

Good question, I was wondering the same. I seem to recall (and I may very well be mistaken) that Yingluck tried to make payments recently, prior to her dismissal, to the farmers and was denied by either BoT or Parliament, can't remember which.

Also, and perhaps I don't understand the farmer/rice thing well enough, but if the 'rice pledging scheme' was such an outrageous crime perpetrated by the previous administration, why is it now suddenly okay? Or am I confusing two different issues?

You might also recall the BAAC's staff union oposing payments to the rice farmers as it would reduce the bank's reserves. Yet, this payment tomorrow is to be taken from those same reserves. Farmers are not stupid as some posters on this foum like to think. They know what is going on.

They opposed it because it was not constitutional!

There is no constitution now AND the Army are backing it..

The fact is Yingluck SHOULD have ensured the money was available before dissolution of government. It was HER responsibility!

Spin.spin.spin... what Thaksin was good at!

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Robby nz]

In a report just last week from the Govt Audit Office (the one the lady was sacked from for telling the truth) said that the total cost of the scheme to date was 878 billion and that the LOSS was estimated at 500 billion.

The 20 billion that was borrowed from the central budget supposidly to pay farmers was to be paid back to said central budget by the 31th of this month.

According to the caretaker Minister of Commerce it has already been paid back and they were planning first to apply for another 40 billion which was then raised to 60 billion, don't know what happened after that.

If money can be borrowed then from the central budget, needing the approval of the EC because of the caretaker Govt status I don't see why the 80 billion needed cant now come from the central budget.

If the NACC says it can come up with 55 billion then all that is needed from the central budget is 25 billion, not that much more than the previous loan.

[JoeThePoster]

Good, next return all the dud tablets to China.

[robblok]

well, now the former government knows what they needed to do to pay the farmers: throw out the constitution! anyone who thinks YS didn't want the farmers paid is too caught up in their own rhetoric to think clearly. they tried but they were blocked at every turn because the yellow's didn't want the farmers paid- much better for them if it was there to drive a wedge in the government's base.

but it sets a super great precedence: want thing done? throw out the constitution.

super.

Your name suits you well.. selective memory I guess.

YL might wanted to pay the farmers, but she made no provisions for it when she dissolved the government. That is incompetence.

But please explain why the farmers were paid late even before the protests ?

[retsdon]

It's exactly the same trick that was played in Egypt. Deny the elected government the means to make good on its pledges, make the country ungovernable, then once the military takeover happens, funds become suddenly and magically available. Only someone who was very naive politically could fail to see through the ruse.

Anyway, lets hope the parallels with Egypt stop there.

[robblok]

In a report just last week from the Govt Audit Office (the one the lady was sacked from for telling the truth) said that the total cost of the scheme to date was 878 billion and that the LOSS was estimated at 500 billion.

The 20 billion that was borrowed from the central budget supposidly to pay farmers was to be paid back to said central budget by the 31th of this month.

According to the caretaker Minister of Commerce it has already been paid back and they were planning first to apply for another 40 billion which was then raised to 60 billion, don't know what happened after that.

If money can be borrowed then from the central budget, needing the approval of the EC because of the caretaker Govt status I don't see why the 80 billion needed cant now come from the central budget.

If the NACC says it can come up with 55 billion then all that is needed from the central budget is 25 billion, not that much more than the previous loan.

Robby,

Would loss not be the true cost (500 billion) of the program and 878 billion just the money tied up in it ? I am anti government but we need to be a bit fair too. Could be that im reading it wrong.

[Tatsujin]

This will be the money that was not available to the ex government?

Yes. Yingluck dissolved Parliament before arranging that the payments be covered, they screwed themselves on that one. Also, Prayuth isn't waiting for rice sales to be made to pay what's owed, he's borrowing from other areas in advance.

[Tatsujin]

well, now the former government knows what they needed to do to pay the farmers: throw out the constitution! anyone who thinks YS didn't want the farmers paid is too caught up in their own rhetoric to think clearly. they tried but they were blocked at every turn because the yellow's didn't want the farmers paid- much better for them if it was there to drive a wedge in the government's base.

but it sets a super great precedence: want thing done? throw out the constitution.

super.

Pheu Thai chose to dissolve Parliament in a rush . . . that stopped them being able to borrow from one hand to pay the other. If they had NOT dissolved Parliament, they would have been able to borrow in the same way Prayuth now is. And don't forget, this had been going on for months and months prior to dissolution with little to no payments made, so they have no one to blame except themselves.

But you keep on believing Thaksin's propaganda if the real world and truth is too scary for you.

[ginjag]

well, now the former government knows what they needed to do to pay the farmers: throw out the constitution! anyone who thinks YS didn't want the farmers paid is too caught up in their own rhetoric to think clearly. they tried but they were blocked at every turn because the yellow's didn't want the farmers paid- much better for them if it was there to drive a wedge in the government's base.

but it sets a super great precedence: want thing done? throw out the constitution.

super.

Pheu Thai chose to dissolve Parliament in a rush . . . that stopped them being able to borrow from one hand to pay the other. If they had NOT dissolved Parliament, they would have been able to borrow in the same way Prayuth now is. And don't forget, this had been going on for months and months prior to dissolution with little to no payments made, so they have no one to blame except themselves.

But you keep on believing Thaksin's propaganda if the real world and truth is too scary for you.

Save you breath/time, it is no use telling these red nosed posters 1000 times why the payments were not made because it's not in their agenda to say the truth.

we know why, they know why but they are on TVF for a wind up only.

I think it's time we all stopped repeating the truth of these withheld payments. Let them wallow and answer their own posts/propaganda.

Discussion is healthy but plain in your face denial is another.

[thumper101]

If I were them, I would not plant rice with the money, their industry is about to collapse.

Thailand has the capability of selling around 7 million tonnes per year. The government has around 16 million tonnes left to sell. The farmers will have about 10 million tonnes for export this year and nobody wanting it.

They are done.... Thanks Thaksin.

[Diplomatico]

If I were them, I would not plant rice with the money, their industry is about to collapse.

Hello, medical marijuana!

[thumper101]

Good question, I was wondering the same. I seem to recall (and I may very well be mistaken) that Yingluck tried to make payments recently, prior to her dismissal, to the farmers and was denied by either BoT or Parliament, can't remember which.

Also, and perhaps I don't understand the farmer/rice thing well enough, but if the 'rice pledging scheme' was such an outrageous crime perpetrated by the previous administration, why is it now suddenly okay? Or am I confusing two different issues?

I suppose it can be said this is a debt incurred by the Thai government which still has to be discharged. Imagine the mayhem if the farmers were told they would not be paid.

Next question is will the scheme be scaled back or abandoned completely ?

As I have stated in a post last week

I believe this needs a different approach, the farmers are struggling because of the cost associated with growing the rice - I think there is an organisation (should be investigated) pushing up the cost of materials which in turn pushes up the subsidies required to sustain the farming operation, the money eventually finds it's way to the corrupt front end of the farming industry - I'll bet that if investigated would uncover some very shady goings on and ownership - what a fine position to be in if you owned a fertilizer company and were also part of the government that approved the Rice Subsidy - inflate the fertilizer price and the money just channels right into your own pocket

It's time the lid was blown clean of this whole industry

There are 2 ways that farmers real incomes can be increased - reduce costs - increase productivity.

Vietnam has increasingly become more competitive - now other countries travel there to see how to grow rice

"The reason for SRIs growing popularity in Haiti is clear: Many farmers practicing this method have boosted their rice yields by 50 percent to 100 percent. They include two farmers associations supported by Oxfam America: Movement to Help the Women of Liancourt-Payen commune of Verrettes, and the Irrigators Association of Liancourt. The womens farming collective boosted its yield to seven tons per hectare, up from less than five tons the previous year, according to Marie Melisena Robert, president and founder of the 200-member group who was among those who traveled to Vietnam. The Irrigators Association, an association of 450 farmers, saw yields reach seven tons, up from less than four tons per hectare, says Hollange Antoine, the groups president."

http://www.oxfamamerica.org/explore/stories/lessons-learned-growing-rice-in-haiti-and-vietnam/

So why is this not promoted more in Thailand?

It uses less fertiliser

Less herbicides

Dose not rely on "special seeds"

can use tradition equipment

uses less water

Maybe because certain interest groups can see that they would lose money.

edit to include reference

Because the boosting of tonnage is the last thing the industry needs right now.. There is an over-supply on the global rice market, and these practices just increase the overstocking. It doesn't help... it fights against the price... 'supply and demand'. less demand, lowers price and wipes out any benefit.

The industry is probably going to need a year of global shortages to stabilize the industry.

Nice one Thaksin.

[culicine]

This will be the money that was not available to the ex government?

Give it a rest. Farmers went unpaid for months before protests started!!!

[Valentine]

This will be the money that was not available to the ex government?

Good question, I was wondering the same. I seem to recall (and I may very well be mistaken) that Yingluck tried to make payments recently, prior to her dismissal, to the farmers and was denied by either BoT or Parliament, can't remember which.

Also, and perhaps I don't understand the farmer/rice thing well enough, but if the 'rice pledging scheme' was such an outrageous crime perpetrated by the previous administration, why is it now suddenly okay? Or am I confusing two different issues?

I suppose it can be said this is a debt incurred by the Thai government which still has to be discharged. Imagine the mayhem if the farmers were told they would not be paid.

Next question is will the scheme be scaled back or abandoned completely ?

As I have stated in a post last week

I believe this needs a different approach, the farmers are struggling because of the cost associated with growing the rice - I think there is an organisation (should be investigated) pushing up the cost of materials which in turn pushes up the subsidies required to sustain the farming operation, the money eventually finds it's way to the corrupt front end of the farming industry - I'll bet that if investigated would uncover some very shady goings on and ownership - what a fine position to be in if you owned a fertilizer company and were also part of the government that approved the Rice Subsidy - inflate the fertilizer price and the money just channels right into your own pocket

It's time the lid was blown clean of this whole industry

I always thought part of the scheme was for the fertilizer merchants to rack up bigger profits by increasing their prices once the rice scheme was in place. As stated in the OP these prices need to be lowered which will be of real benefit to the farmers plus create a scheme to teach the farmers different methods of growing rice such as organically. Not sure if you can achieve the same yields by going organic but the reduction in costs & health benefits would surely make up for it in spades.

Edited May 25, 2014 by Valentine

[Joe Mamma]

When i work and fulfill my contract and obligations, i expect to get paid! How do you candy coat fraud! Where is the money? Questions, questions????

[jpeg]

well, now the former government knows what they needed to do to pay the farmers: throw out the constitution! anyone who thinks YS didn't want the farmers paid is too caught up in their own rhetoric to think clearly. they tried but they were blocked at every turn because the yellow's didn't want the farmers paid- much better for them if it was there to drive a wedge in the government's base.

but it sets a super great precedence: want thing done? throw out the constitution.

super.

your handle name suits you. YL had ZERO intentions of paying farmers... because #1 she had "nothing to do with it" even though she was at the top of the pyramid.

it took more than 5 months to get any money to farmers.

during this time, all their other schemes were paid off/ approved

and why in hell would they want to pass a zillion dollar loan to "improve thailand" but not to pay farmers.

... seriously. .. use your brain.

heres a riddle for you.

what do you say to someone who you owe money too but have no intention of paying?

give up?

"ill pay you later"

Precisely. 2 TRILLION is what they wanted for a 'high speed train network' and dubious water containment schemes , but not the comparatively much smaller amount to pay the broke, up to their eyes in debt to loan shark, farmers. Something some posters on this forum conveniently overlook.

[robblok]

Good question, I was wondering the same. I seem to recall (and I may very well be mistaken) that Yingluck tried to make payments recently, prior to her dismissal, to the farmers and was denied by either BoT or Parliament, can't remember which.

Also, and perhaps I don't understand the farmer/rice thing well enough, but if the 'rice pledging scheme' was such an outrageous crime perpetrated by the previous administration, why is it now suddenly okay? Or am I confusing two different issues?

I suppose it can be said this is a debt incurred by the Thai government which still has to be discharged. Imagine the mayhem if the farmers were told they would not be paid.

Next question is will the scheme be scaled back or abandoned completely ?

As I have stated in a post last week

I believe this needs a different approach, the farmers are struggling because of the cost associated with growing the rice - I think there is an organisation (should be investigated) pushing up the cost of materials which in turn pushes up the subsidies required to sustain the farming operation, the money eventually finds it's way to the corrupt front end of the farming industry - I'll bet that if investigated would uncover some very shady goings on and ownership - what a fine position to be in if you owned a fertilizer company and were also part of the government that approved the Rice Subsidy - inflate the fertilizer price and the money just channels right into your own pocket

It's time the lid was blown clean of this whole industry

I always thought part of the scheme was for the fertilizer merchants to rack up bigger profits by increasing their prices once the rice scheme was in place. As stated in the OP these prices need to be lowered which will be of real benefit to the farmers plus create a scheme to teach the farmers different methods of growing rice such as organically. Not sure if you can achieve the same yields by going organic but the reduction in costs & health benefits would surely make up for it in spades.

What you are correctly stating is the higher price of fertiliser, why to rack up more profit. This is one of the reasons why an other kind of help to the farmers would be better. But of course PTP did not want this.

It would have been much better to give people help based on the amount of rice land they had with an upper limit. This way its an easy process and you help the poorest farmers while excluding the richer ones and of course the people who sell fertilizer and such.

But there is not much room for corruption in a scheme like that so PTP does not like it.

(actually there are 2 options either they are stupid and did not realize the downsides that I mentions or they did and it was intended.)

[recycler]

Looks like the army was in control of the Baht presses long before they took over this week.....

[ratcatcher]

Well done Khun General Prayuth. One need not say more.

Edited to add well there is actually. It shows truly which person and group in Thailand has the people who are most needy at the center of their hearts. Wake up Issan the Army and this General is the best friend and ally you have going for you.

Ye'p pay the farmers, that's a good thing, well done, they need to be the first people who need to be paid...

Where I ask is the Suthep PROMISED audit of the bags of cash given to him??? has anyone seen it? Suthep's dog ate it???

Now I ask just who was it that threatened banks who wanted to accept loans from the government to pay farmers?

You keep whingeing on like a good Pommy about Suthep and his bags of cash.

His bags of cash were donated 100% by his supporters to finance his crusade against the Puea Thai government. It was freely given by the public. It wasn't government's (public) money.

His supporters are happy that his goal was achieved including his promise to turn himself in to the authorities.

His "threats" to the banks were more like strong advice, saying "If you lend money to this ailing gang calling themselves a caretaker government, you will never see it again."

Now quit the "Suthep this, Suthep that" whining and watch Prayuth do what Thaksin failed to do.

G'day mate.