God bless them one and all !

[thaibeachlovers]

The best we can hope for is a pleasant sharing of time and space with another person.

If that's an hour or five hours or over night or ten years, doesn't matter. A pleasant sharing between two people is a good thing.

Only the two people know whether its pleasant or not. If not they say goodbye. (or hang on for the drama)

I always go for the pleasant and fun times with whomever I'm with. It's just that simple.

..if you are talking about mutual pleasure, then of course everyone would agree.

However, if taking advantage of economically poor individuals and indulging in p4p, then thats really more about selfish wants than mutual pleasure....

You've made a pretty definitive statement that P4P is exploiting <economically poor individuals>. On what basis do you make that claim? Is a high class hooker in New York that charges $5,000 a night exploited?

As for Thailand, how many bargirls working with westerners do you know?

Also, there is the other scenario, where western men marry Thai women and end up buying them houses and cars, plus paying them and their families. Are they doing P4P and just who is being exploited?

BTW, I was "economically exploited" for most of my working life. Do I get any sympathy from you?

Edited June 13, 2014 by thaibeachlovers

[Old Stud]

The best we can hope for is a pleasant sharing of time and space with another person.

If that's an hour or five hours or over night or ten years, doesn't matter. A pleasant sharing between two people is a good thing.

Only the two people know whether its pleasant or not. If not they say goodbye. (or hang on for the drama)

I always go for the pleasant and fun times with whomever I'm with. It's just that simple.

..if you are talking about mutual pleasure, then of course everyone would agree.

However, if taking advantage of economically poor individuals and indulging in p4p, then thats really more about selfish wants than mutual pleasure....

Suppose I met you and we had a good conversation and I took you out to dinner. I being a man or a woman, whatever your preference. I took you to a more expensive place, somewhere you would normally not go, since maybe you are economically poorer than me. We have a great sharing of time and space - let's just say we did. Let's just say we actually liked each other. Dinner cost me 2500 baht. That's realistic. We're consenting adults and we end up spending the night at my hotel. Why? Because we like each other and that's what we agreed to do. We satisfied our selfish pleasures. Probably happens a billion times a night all over the world. We say goodbye the next morning. We both agree we had a great time.

What's the conclusion you want to make? Did I take advantage of you, or did you take advantage of me?

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Besides that, I know very few bargirls who I see as truly happy about what they do. Actually, I can not think of one...

I'm pretty sure that most people would much rather make tons of money for doing nothing at all, but, unfortunately, that is not how the world works.

I know several that wouldn't do anything else.

Sex, drinks, drugs, food, party time, attention and money.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

BTW, I was "economically exploited" for most of my working life. Do I get any sympathy from you?

Me too!

[AnotherOneAmerican]

[..if you are talking about mutual pleasure, then of course everyone would agree.

However, if taking advantage of economically poor individuals and indulging in p4p, then thats really more about selfish wants than mutual pleasure....

Ever had a massage from a poor Thai woman?

Given a free choice, she wouldn't have done it, you exploited her poverty for your physical pleasure.

So what's the difference?

Edited June 13, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[LaraC]

The best we can hope for is a pleasant sharing of time and space with another person.

If that's an hour or five hours or over night or ten years, doesn't matter. A pleasant sharing between two people is a good thing.

Only the two people know whether its pleasant or not. If not they say goodbye. (or hang on for the drama)

I always go for the pleasant and fun times with whomever I'm with. It's just that simple.

..if you are talking about mutual pleasure, then of course everyone would agree.

However, if taking advantage of economically poor individuals and indulging in p4p, then thats really more about selfish wants than mutual pleasure....

Suppose I met you and we had a good conversation and I took you out to dinner. I being a man or a woman, whatever your preference. I took you to a more expensive place, somewhere you would normally not go, since maybe you are economically poorer than me. We have a great sharing of time and space - let's just say we did. Let's just say we actually liked each other. Dinner cost me 2500 baht. That's realistic. We're consenting adults and we end up spending the night at my hotel. Why? Because we like each other and that's what we agreed to do. We satisfied our selfish pleasures. Probably happens a billion times a night all over the world. We say goodbye the next morning. We both agree we had a great time.

What's the conclusion you want to make? Did I take advantage of you, or did you take advantage of me?

We wouldnt, i can assure you

...and im not talking just who you are/age etc. Even if you were hot stuff and a similar age, no, you wouldnt. Why? Because buying me a nice dinner doesnt equal getting into my knickers. I have never had sex with a guy on the first date, never will. Its my preference, because personally i value myself fairly highly and sex, although fun, is something i consider intimate. Of course, there are women who will have sex with a guy at a drop of a hat..or who can be paid directly (or indirectly via a fancy dinner). Some guys prefer easy. Some women do too. I dont.

[LaraC]

[..if you are talking about mutual pleasure, then of course everyone would agree.

However, if taking advantage of economically poor individuals and indulging in p4p, then thats really more about selfish wants than mutual pleasure....

Ever had a massage from a poor Thai woman?

Given a free choice, she wouldn't have done it, you exploited her poverty for your physical pleasure.

So what's the difference?

..and therein lies the rub! For, so few here see the distiction. Or do not wish to.

[CharlieH]

Hair splitting rubbish ! Some people just wont let it go, droning on and on and on beating the same old drum.

[thailiketoo]

[..if you are talking about mutual pleasure, then of course everyone would agree.

However, if taking advantage of economically poor individuals and indulging in p4p, then thats really more about selfish wants than mutual pleasure....

Ever had a massage from a poor Thai woman?

Given a free choice, she wouldn't have done it, you exploited her poverty for your physical pleasure.

So what's the difference?

..and therein lies the rub! For, so few here see the distiction. Or do not wish to.

What is poor to you might not have been poor to Jackie Kennedy. Aye there's the rub!

Do you need me to explain?

[AnotherOneAmerican]

[..if you are talking about mutual pleasure, then of course everyone would agree.

However, if taking advantage of economically poor individuals and indulging in p4p, then thats really more about selfish wants than mutual pleasure....

Ever had a massage from a poor Thai woman?

Given a free choice, she wouldn't have done it, you exploited her poverty for your physical pleasure.

So what's the difference?

..and therein lies the rub! For, so few here see the distiction. Or do not wish to.

I have inadvertently seen a few ladies being massaged, looked like they were getting happy endings to me.

On questioning one of the ladies (friend only), she admitted receiving the dirty deed.

I was quite shocked!

[CharlieH]

[..if you are talking about mutual pleasure, then of course everyone would agree.

However, if taking advantage of economically poor individuals and indulging in p4p, then thats really more about selfish wants than mutual pleasure....

Ever had a massage from a poor Thai woman?

Given a free choice, she wouldn't have done it, you exploited her poverty for your physical pleasure.

So what's the difference?

..and therein lies the rub! For, so few here see the distiction. Or do not wish to.

I have inadvertently seen a few ladies being massaged, looked like they were getting happy endings to me.

On questioning one of the ladies (friend only), she admitted receiving the dirty deed.

I was quite shocked!

Dont be, I used to work in a health spa many years ago, some ladies would deliberately and insistantly remove the towels and lay naked for a massage, some would even blatantly ask if "extra's" were available.

Edited June 14, 2014 by CharlieH

[AnotherOneAmerican]

We wouldnt, i can assure you

...and im not talking just who you are/age etc. Even if you were hot stuff and a similar age, no, you wouldnt. Why? Because buying me a nice dinner doesnt equal getting into my knickers. I have never had sex with a guy on the first date, never will. Its my preference, because personally i value myself fairly highly and sex, although fun, is something i consider intimate. Of course, there are women who will have sex with a guy at a drop of a hat..or who can be paid directly (or indirectly via a fancy dinner). Some guys prefer easy. Some women do too. I dont.

One of the great things about Thailand, so many available girls, you can play a hard one, whilst indulging yourself with the easy ones.

Holding out (while having secret sexy massages) just ensures you are being two timed by the guys.

[mesquite]

We wouldnt, i can assure you

...and im not talking just who you are/age etc. Even if you were hot stuff and a similar age, no, you wouldnt. Why? Because buying me a nice dinner doesnt equal getting into my knickers. I have never had sex with a guy on the first date, never will. Its my preference, because personally i value myself fairly highly and sex, although fun, is something i consider intimate. Of course, there are women who will have sex with a guy at a drop of a hat..or who can be paid directly (or indirectly via a fancy dinner). Some guys prefer easy. Some women do too. I dont.

Though I believe you, other than hookers, I've never heard a woman say anything different.

Some right after we'd had sex on the first date. "I've never done this before...."

A wise man once told me that the most important thing to a woman is her reputation.

I'm talking back when I was young and "hansum man" and sometimes not too bright in the US in the 70's and 80's.

One of the dumbest things I ever did was argue with one, pointing out we'd just screwed after barely knowing each other. I learned the meaning of the words, "Hell hath no fury as a woman scorned."

[LaraC]

We wouldnt, i can assure you

...and im not talking just who you are/age etc. Even if you were hot stuff and a similar age, no, you wouldnt. Why? Because buying me a nice dinner doesnt equal getting into my knickers. I have never had sex with a guy on the first date, never will. Its my preference, because personally i value myself fairly highly and sex, although fun, is something i consider intimate. Of course, there are women who will have sex with a guy at a drop of a hat..or who can be paid directly (or indirectly via a fancy dinner). Some guys prefer easy. Some women do too. I dont.

One of the great things about Thailand, so many available girls, you can play a hard one, whilst indulging yourself with the easy ones.

Holding out (while having secret sexy massages) just ensures you are being two timed by the guys.

I dont care what a guy does to get his rocks off whilst getting to know me.

I let any man who has been interested in me know right off the bat that im not an easy catch.

Ive been a serial monogomist my entire life, with very few relationships.

Hate the dating scene, just not my thing.

If two people want to hook up, go for it. Just that casual encounters doesnt do it for me.

[LaraC]

We wouldnt, i can assure you

...and im not talking just who you are/age etc. Even if you were hot stuff and a similar age, no, you wouldnt. Why? Because buying me a nice dinner doesnt equal getting into my knickers. I have never had sex with a guy on the first date, never will. Its my preference, because personally i value myself fairly highly and sex, although fun, is something i consider intimate. Of course, there are women who will have sex with a guy at a drop of a hat..or who can be paid directly (or indirectly via a fancy dinner). Some guys prefer easy. Some women do too. I dont.

Though I believe you, other than hookers, I've never heard a woman say anything different.

Some right after we'd had sex on the first date. "I've never done this before...."

A wise man once told me that the most important thing to a woman is her reputation.

I'm talking back when I was young and "hansum man" and sometimes not too bright in the US in the 70's and 80's.

One of the dumbest things I ever did was argue with one, pointing out we'd just screwed after barely knowing each other. I learned the meaning of the words, "Hell hath no fury as a woman scorned."

You think i have a reputation to uphold on a forum where i am anonymous?

Would be far more scintillating and fun to say that i sleep with men at the drop of a hat.

[mesquite]

We wouldnt, i can assure you

...and im not talking just who you are/age etc. Even if you were hot stuff and a similar age, no, you wouldnt. Why? Because buying me a nice dinner doesnt equal getting into my knickers. I have never had sex with a guy on the first date, never will. Its my preference, because personally i value myself fairly highly and sex, although fun, is something i consider intimate. Of course, there are women who will have sex with a guy at a drop of a hat..or who can be paid directly (or indirectly via a fancy dinner). Some guys prefer easy. Some women do too. I dont.

Though I believe you, other than hookers, I've never heard a woman say anything different.

Some right after we'd had sex on the first date. "I've never done this before...."

A wise man once told me that the most important thing to a woman is her reputation.

I'm talking back when I was young and "hansum man" and sometimes not too bright in the US in the 70's and 80's.

One of the dumbest things I ever did was argue with one, pointing out we'd just screwed after barely knowing each other. I learned the meaning of the words, "Hell hath no fury as a woman scorned."

You think i have a reputation to uphold on a forum where i am anonymous?

Would be far more scintillating and fun to say that i sleep with men at the drop of a hat.

No.

[Old Stud]

We wouldnt, i can assure you

...and im not talking just who you are/age etc. Even if you were hot stuff and a similar age, no, you wouldnt. Why? Because buying me a nice dinner doesnt equal getting into my knickers. I have never had sex with a guy on the first date, never will. Its my preference, because personally i value myself fairly highly and sex, although fun, is something i consider intimate. Of course, there are women who will have sex with a guy at a drop of a hat..or who can be paid directly (or indirectly via a fancy dinner). Some guys prefer easy. Some women do too. I dont.

Though I believe you, other than hookers, I've never heard a woman say anything different.

Some right after we'd had sex on the first date. "I've never done this before...."

A wise man once told me that the most important thing to a woman is her reputation.

I'm talking back when I was young and "hansum man" and sometimes not too bright in the US in the 70's and 80's.

One of the dumbest things I ever did was argue with one, pointing out we'd just screwed after barely knowing each other. I learned the meaning of the words, "Hell hath no fury as a woman scorned."

You think i have a reputation to uphold on a forum where i am anonymous?

Would be far more scintillating and fun to say that i sleep with men at the drop of a hat.

I'm sure you're a very attractive woman and many disappointed men are standing in line wanting to drop their hats.

But that's not the point, is it?

The point is that we are all human beings. As such we want to love and be loved in return. That's our true nature. You say that you are

selective and want to be romanced, to choose the right person. That's nice.

But the fact remains, you will get older. Maybe ten, twenty, thirty years from now there is nobody there. No hats to drop. No man

wants you. Happens to the best of us. Years go by. No one is loving you and you're loving no one in return. Maybe you're in

denial, but you really do want to love and be loved.

Then during a massage he or she says, "Would you like me to make you happy? 500 baht."

And you think, "Why the f not?"

Report back to us when that happens.

[Ulysses G.]

Then during a massage he or she says, "Would you like me to make you happy? 500 baht."

And you think, "Why the f not?"

Indeed.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

You think i have a reputation to uphold on a forum where i am anonymous?

Would be far more scintillating and fun to say that i sleep with men at the drop of a hat.

Nah, we would all think you were normal if you said that.

[soihok]

Been reading this thread for about an hour now, from the beginning (I know, sad aren't I?)

Can't catch up to the last page with pace of the posts, will have to come back to later - only at page 9 now.

Not laughed this much since Spain got beat 5-1.

[Neeranam]

Been reading this thread for about an hour now, from the beginning (I know, sad aren't I?)

Can't catch up to the last page with pace of the posts, will have to come back to later - only at page 9 now.

Not laughed this much since Spain got beat 5-1.

It is indeed funny because of one old guy who thinks he is a stud. I won't laugh as much as I did last night for a long time when Italy scored the winner v England.

[Neeranam]

[..if you are talking about mutual pleasure, then of course everyone would agree.

However, if taking advantage of economically poor individuals and indulging in p4p, then thats really more about selfish wants than mutual pleasure....

Ever had a massage from a poor Thai woman?

Given a free choice, she wouldn't have done it, you exploited her poverty for your physical pleasure.

So what's the difference?

..and therein lies the rub! For, so few here see the distiction. Or do not wish to.

I'm getting a massage today from a poor woman. I asked her and we made an appointment for 1pm at my house. She is not being forced - how am I exploiting her for my pleasure?

100 baht for 2 hours - I think we'll bot be pretty happy with the results, we were the last time.

Maybe she is exploiting me as I heard she gave some other locals for a cheaper price.

[thaibeachlovers]

The best we can hope for is a pleasant sharing of time and space with another person.

If that's an hour or five hours or over night or ten years, doesn't matter. A pleasant sharing between two people is a good thing.

Only the two people know whether its pleasant or not. If not they say goodbye. (or hang on for the drama)

I always go for the pleasant and fun times with whomever I'm with. It's just that simple.

..if you are talking about mutual pleasure, then of course everyone would agree.

However, if taking advantage of economically poor individuals and indulging in p4p, then thats really more about selfish wants than mutual pleasure....

Suppose I met you and we had a good conversation and I took you out to dinner. I being a man or a woman, whatever your preference. I took you to a more expensive place, somewhere you would normally not go, since maybe you are economically poorer than me. We have a great sharing of time and space - let's just say we did. Let's just say we actually liked each other. Dinner cost me 2500 baht. That's realistic. We're consenting adults and we end up spending the night at my hotel. Why? Because we like each other and that's what we agreed to do. We satisfied our selfish pleasures. Probably happens a billion times a night all over the world. We say goodbye the next morning. We both agree we had a great time.

What's the conclusion you want to make? Did I take advantage of you, or did you take advantage of me?

We wouldnt, i can assure you

...and im not talking just who you are/age etc. Even if you were hot stuff and a similar age, no, you wouldnt. Why? Because buying me a nice dinner doesnt equal getting into my knickers. I have never had sex with a guy on the first date, never will. Its my preference, because personally i value myself fairly highly and sex, although fun, is something i consider intimate. Of course, there are women who will have sex with a guy at a drop of a hat..or who can be paid directly (or indirectly via a fancy dinner). Some guys prefer easy. Some women do too. I dont.

I don't know you obviously, but many women still expect men to pay for dinner, movies etc and eventually sleep with them. Whether it's the first or the 100th date makes no difference to me, if the female does not pay her own way. In that situation it's still P4P, IMO.

Only if the female pays for her own dinner, movie ticket etc is it equality.

The reason I, and I'm sure a lot of western men, get PO with western women now, is that they take advantage of equal rights legislation to make the same money ( or more ) than men, yet still want to live life as it was before equal rights- ie be treated more courteously than men, and expect men to pick up the bill.

[LaraC]

Then during a massage he or she says, "Would you like me to make you happy? 500 baht."

And you think, "Why the f not?"

Indeed.

The difference being that even if i do end up alone and old, i do not equate paying for sex as something romantic or fulfilling.

If i wanted to have an orgasm that desperately, i could use my hand and my imagination. At least no one is being exploited, and id get a whole lot more out of it than the desperately sad and pathetic feeling id get from having to pay someone to give me one.

if i end up lonely for a romantic partner in my old age, paying someone to get me off isnt going to fulfill that. It would in fact only serve to make me feel more lonely.

You think i have a reputation to uphold on a forum where i am anonymous?

Would be far more scintillating and fun to say that i sleep with men at the drop of a hat.

Nah, we would all think you were normal if you said that.

..so it is "normal" to hook up with new guys every night?

Sheesh..i never know. Will need to have a chat with my gf;s.

Edited June 15, 2014 by LaraC

[LaraC]

I don't know you obviously, but many women still expect men to pay for dinner, movies etc and eventually sleep with them. Whether it's the first or the 100th date makes no difference to me, if the female does not pay her own way. In that situation it's still P4P, IMO.

Only if the female pays for her own dinner, movie ticket etc is it equality.

The reason I, and I'm sure a lot of western men, get PO with western women now, is that they take advantage of equal rights legislation to make the same money ( or more ) than men, yet still want to live life as it was before equal rights- ie be treated more courteously than men, and expect men to pick up the bill.

This hardly deserves a response. You are so far gone it isnt worth trying to explain.

[thaibeachlovers]

I don't know you obviously, but many women still expect men to pay for dinner, movies etc and eventually sleep with them. Whether it's the first or the 100th date makes no difference to me, if the female does not pay her own way. In that situation it's still P4P, IMO.

Only if the female pays for her own dinner, movie ticket etc is it equality.

The reason I, and I'm sure a lot of western men, get PO with western women now, is that they take advantage of equal rights legislation to make the same money ( or more ) than men, yet still want to live life as it was before equal rights- ie be treated more courteously than men, and expect men to pick up the bill.

This hardly deserves a response. You are so far gone it isnt worth trying to explain.

I see that you are using the old "attack the person" ruse to detract from the message.

I hope that you always pay your own way, or ........................

[thaibeachlovers]

Indeed.

The difference being that even if i do end up alone and old, i do not equate paying for sex as something romantic or fulfilling.

If i wanted to have an orgasm that desperately, i could use my hand and my imagination. At least no one is being exploited, and id get a whole lot more out of it than the desperately sad and pathetic feeling id get from having to pay someone to give me one.

if i end up lonely for a romantic partner in my old age, paying someone to get me off isnt going to fulfill that. It would in fact only serve to make me feel more lonely.

You think i have a reputation to uphold on a forum where i am anonymous?

Would be far more scintillating and fun to say that i sleep with men at the drop of a hat.

Nah, we would all think you were normal if you said that.

..so it is "normal" to hook up with new guys every night?

Sheesh..i never know. Will need to have a chat with my gf;s.

<If i wanted to have an orgasm that desperately, i could use my hand and my imagination.>

You have just illustrated the point that men and women are different. Most men would find a real person preferable to Mrs Palmer, given the opportunity.

In Thailand, of course, opportunity is no problem at all.

In my lifetime, I have observed that women can get along quite happily without men, wereas the reverse is not true. Eg men are happier being married than women, according to studies.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

You think i have a reputation to uphold on a forum where i am anonymous?

Would be far more scintillating and fun to say that i sleep with men at the drop of a hat.

Nah, we would all think you were normal if you said that.

..so it is "normal" to hook up with new guys every night?

Sheesh..i never know. Will need to have a chat with my gf;s.

Sleeping with a guy the first night, doesn't equate to sleeping with a new guy every night.

Meeting a guy, liking him, sleeping with him the first night, then continuing to see him is fairly normal in a relationship.

[thaibeachlovers]

You think i have a reputation to uphold on a forum where i am anonymous?

Would be far more scintillating and fun to say that i sleep with men at the drop of a hat.

Nah, we would all think you were normal if you said that.

..so it is "normal" to hook up with new guys every night?

Sheesh..i never know. Will need to have a chat with my gf;s.

Sleeping with a guy the first night, doesn't equate to sleeping with a new guy every night.

Meeting a guy, liking him, sleeping with him the first night, then continuing to see him is fairly normal in a relationship.

Quite right.

I had two long term Thai girfriends, one for 4 years and one for 8 years. I slept with each of them on the first night. I also slept with my wife that I have known for 5 years on our first night.