Royal Thai Police to undergo major reform

[mrpositive]

@ whoever wrote the giant post full of s**t - Yes those of us who live in Thailand become accustomed to the monthly road side robbery once a month and have the art of sliding afew hundred baht into the fine book like a magician doing a card trick, but that surely gives me the wright to completely disregard road laws for the rest of the day, park where I want and generally get my 250 bahts worth. It's a shortsighted solution by people who don't genuinely care or are too moronic to see beyond it. Yes policing is a dangerous job, as is the fire service, sea rescue service etc, but the ridiculous notion that brazenly extorting money from the general public, regularly, on mass can brushed under the carpet as, "Oh it's just how it goes" or be justified because they are not paid enough is complete cr*p. Get another job then like millions of people do. I remind myself that in my home country, I would have surely been fined hundreds of thousands in fines for Driving and using the telephone or other Driving offenses that have probably cost me afew thousand Baht. The police are supposed to be upholders of the law and protectors of the public and have been appointed this position of power because those basic values of doing the wright thing are unconditional, irrelevant of their bank balance towards the end of the month. "The money is filtered down the ranks in an organized fashion"! No pal it isn't, they actually risk life an limb to avoid there partners seeing how much they take sometimes. Anyway the roadside robberies are just annoying but a much more concerning side to it all is when you are actually at the mercy of Police when it is serious. I have first hand experience of how the financial demands can lead to outright in humanities when not met. Sorry to say but the overwhelming number of brown suit wearing mafia make it impossible to have faith in any that be out there who are straight. I liked the Walt Disney bit also about the young fresh recruits with good intentions you see at immigration. Keep the Army lock up the mafia

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Hi Mr rmiexe. Mr 'F.O.S' here.

Frankly, I was expecting your post.

I do understand your point of view. And I am not condoning unlawful acts of any nature. I too have seen first hand some of the challenges and harsh realities of the system as it stands. I have also seen discretion offered by the BiB to solve an issue in favour of justice, when it would otherwise be a long, expensive, drawn out court case (or worse). It's easy to point out obvious challenges or systemic failures, but how often do people illustrate the positives?

Some of the old long time problems often expressed by people here, have in fact begun to meet modernisation and reform - which is seldom known or reported. I just feel that in all fairness, there should be balance when sincerely addressing serious issues.

For example, nepotism. How many people are aware that the Thai government made the unusual decision of putting government departments on notice (circa 2007 I think) regarding this issue. Has it entirely curtailed nepotism? Maybe. Maybe not. I don't have the facts. But given the culture and history of such practices, the mere mention of such a reform is a big leap forward in tackling such issues in Thai society, and gets the ball rolling.

Did anyone hear about the lowly paid government clerk a few years ago who was handed a lunch box containing 2 million baht to process papers for Fmr. PM Thaksin? The clerk promptly followed normal procedure, and declared the money accordingly. Would this have happened 10 or 20 years ago? Maybe. Maybe not. But it does highlight positive standards of service that few people recognise, and that rightfully deserve appropriate attention if we are sincere and serious about promoting good governance and improved standards in society.

I am merely suggesting that being part of the solution, may reasonably including offering praise, recognition, respect and appreciation where it's due.

..Or join the swathe of bleating beer-breathed farang opinion that does naught but try to cut Thai society down to size by perpetually preaching high-and-mighty, often unbalanced opinion.. if you think that really helps.

Cheers.

(P.S. Walt Disney says 'Hi' from the cryo-chamber *wink*)

[raybal5]

Lets make Jet ski operators into garbage men while we are doing all of this FANTASY POLICE RESHUFFLE.

Nothing will work if people /police/ taxis/jet ski scum are not punished beyond belief.

I'm not sure you have a reasonable view of how things work. Firstly, any sort of reform takes time and not everything can be done all at the same time. In order to reduce or eliminate corruption you have to start at the source. By starting with the fat cats at the top, the underlings see this and will toe the line. Eventually they will be exposed by their bosses and they too will face the music for their corrupt ways. Eventually, this will filter down to the crooks who previously had the protection of the corrupt police and if they try the same shit with scams and bullying and whatever, they too will eventually have their day in court. Any sort of structural reform takes time and the courage of people in charge. People being what they are will try to find ways to continue their wicked ways and crime can never be fully stopped but I am encouraged by what I have seen so far.

[raybal5]

Trying to reform the police force is an admirable gesture, but fails to address deep-rooted corruption that resides in the bowls of this institution. Furthermore, the point of moving an officer of the law to a redundant position in cases of either not enforcing the law, or being implicated in impropriety, should also be also abolished. Unless a system of complete transparency and accountability is introduced, then one can only assume that not much will change within the ranks of the force. Afterall, repackaging or rebranding a product doesn't necessarily change it's content. However, these are early days, and significant reform could be adopted, one can only hope !

I disagree with your comment about it being an admirable gesture, but fails to address deep-rooted corruption that resides in the bowls of this institution

Starting at the top will over time, certainly change the prevailing culture of corruption. The best place to start is by removing those at the top who have allowed the corruption to persist and benefited from it. When they are gone and replaced by honest leaders, the corruption in the lower ranks will be identified and removed. To start at the bottom would perhaps satisfy you in the short term, but would not create the long term solution needed.

The whole idea of removing corrupt police chiefs from active command to a nothing job in Bangkok serves multiple purposes. It takes them away from their power base so that their underlings are not influenced or forced to participate. In fact the mere removal of the boss could be all that is required for the underlings to clean up their behaviours. Second, with the protection of the bosses, the criminals will find themselves exposed. Without protection, the honest cops can actually do something about them.

You say Unless a system of complete transparency and accountability is introduced, then one can only assume that not much will change within the ranks of the force and I agree with you. However, such a change cannot happen overnight. It is a long process which may take years to accomplish. But at least celebrate that a start has been made and a decisive message has been sent to all police and their protectorates.

[Gandtee]

Glad to see even half-hearted reforms. The problem is information -- we don't have any. The junta made an announcement at 8:47, 20 min ago now, but we won't have an approved translation until tomorrow. It is a bit worrisome. What if they declared that all people named "Bob" have to leave the country tomorrow wearing fuchsia speedos, or declared we all must eat mayo on our pizza on alternating Tuesdays? My God, what if they demanded student visa holders show course work and recent bank information, and made them pay back taxes before the deportation?

Dogs sleeping with cats -- sheep looking for Afghanis...it could be chaos...

We just don't know.

You are living in Thailand, so why should the officials rush to translate anything into English, the official language here is Thai or have you forgotten that fact.

Would your own country even bother with a translation into Thai - doubt it very much.

Learn to live with it like most of us do without any great problem.

I come from the UK it would be translated into about 4 or 5 languages.

Sent from my XT1032 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

Only because of the abysmal immigration policy.

[empireboy]

Any reform is better than than no reform, and no reform is what we have had for a long time. Cue the cynics......

Sent from my iPhone using ThaiVisa app

Yup... even slow zig-zag progress, if it does move in a positive direction, is better than the status quo I think.

[wilcopops]

no-one would deny that the police need reforming, but isn't this is just the army clearing away opposition?

QED? - http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/729713-mass-police-transfer-in-new-purge-at-royal-thai-police-force/?utm_source=newsletter-20140528-1424&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=news

Edited May 28, 2014 by wilcopops

[Stradavarius37]

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Trying to reform the police force is an admirable gesture, but fails to address deep-rooted corruption that resides in the bowls of this institution. Furthermore, the point of moving an officer of the law to a redundant position in cases of either not enforcing the law, or being implicated in impropriety, should also be also abolished. Unless a system of complete transparency and accountability is introduced, then one can only assume that not much will change within the ranks of the force. Afterall, repackaging or rebranding a product doesn't necessarily change it's content. However, these are early days, and significant reform could be adopted, one can only hope !

How can you possibly know if it fails to address the problem or not? They haven't announced the plan yet....

[beautifulthailand99]

I was right. It was a self-defence move to play for time & try & keep the general at bay. Didn't work!!!! 16 commanders "in red infested areas" moved to inactive roles. So, what did everyone else think the General has been doing for the last 7 months (or 2.5 years)??? I would hate to play chess against this guy. The news just keeps getting better & better. Keep it up, Sir. And to quote Corporal Jones, "They don't like it up 'em."

Instead of playing golf on Wednesdays with the rest of the officer corps he was probably drawing up his detailed contingency plan in case a coup was needed.

Was watching Spring News this morning and saw a list of another 6 who were transferred to perform "duties at the National Police HQ in Bangkok". They were all city police chiefs. I caught Chiang Mai, Khon Kaen and Pattaya. The provincial police chief of Chiang Mai has got the axe too. Spring News showed a roomful of senior cops listening the announcements and wincing when they heard the names. Being kicked out of a powerful job like that means that your income suddenly goes down from God knows how many millions of USD per year to your official police salary of about B30k per month. Ha ha.

I think this is only the first wave of Prayuth's night of the long knives but I believe he will do most of it quickly. I read in a management book once that if you need to sack people, it is best to sack them all at once because the shock to the troops of three sackings is not equal to sum of the shock of sacking one a month for three months. I tried this out in management, when I was regrettably forced to fire people and found it to be very true. I think Prayuth has the same idea and also wants to make absolutely clear what is in store for any governemnt officials who fail to toe the line.

What a difference from the aftermath of the 2006 coup!

Dangerous to make too many enemies too quickly - I remember back in 2003 when Thaksin was publically berating his cabinet for having too many mia nois or something like that thinking he can't do that TIT and he wouldn't be long for the chop. That said the army are at least competent at what they do unlike the RTP.

[namdocmai]

Who are richer the "higher ups" in the armed forces or the police?

From what I can can tell both have more money than 99% of their counter parts serving in first world countries. If it were up to me I would sack anyone that had more than 1 million bath in the bank as it is impossible to become that wealthy without corruption.

And what about policemen who allready had 1 million before they started? I know one who inherited 15 million from selling the family house. Why would you sack him?

[atsiii]

If they actually paid the police a decent wage, supplied them with vehicles (and gas money, many cops pay for their own gas to get to assignments!), and created an atmosphere of service to the country, then, and only then, would they ever expect to see some reform.

The majority of cops want to give service to their fellow Thais, but under the current structure it is impossible. You cannot expect current Thai police to take a stand and move beyond the corruption when on their salary they can't even afford to pay their kids school fees.

Can you tell me the amount a newly "hired" policemen earns each month? Is the salary commensurate of education? How about the amount a police receives if advanced in rank? How does this salary compare to same skill set in the public domain?

Thanks

I read a couple of years ago that the starting salary for a new policeman out of the academy was 8000 THB per month, and they had to buy their own uniforms, weapons, etc. I never verified this number, but it seems believable. In terms of comparison, my Thai wife had a Thai university degree with 11 years experience as a professional translator, and her salary in BKK was only 15,000 per month. She too had started out at about 8000 per month.

Whether this starting police salary is commiserate with the individual's education level and skills begs the question, because at this very low pay rate you can be sure the individual will look for ways to augment their pay--legal or otherwise.

[atsiii]

Who are richer the "higher ups" in the armed forces or the police?

From what I can can tell both have more money than 99% of their counter parts serving in first world countries. If it were up to me I would sack anyone that had more than 1 million bath in the bank as it is impossible to become that wealthy without corruption.

And what about policemen who allready had 1 million before they started? I know one who inherited 15 million from selling the family house. Why would you sack him?

Obviously, I cannot know which service has more money. But I did read that during the Vietnam war years, US aid and assistance created some 300+ millionaire generals in the Thai military. And that article was talking about "millionaires" in terms of USD, not THB. Suffice it to say that an inordinate amount of wealth was created in the Thai military during the war years.

There will always be some exceptions, and some individuals from wealthy families, but in general one does not find this kind of wealth in either the US Armed Services or US police departments. I don't know about other countries, but in the US these are generally civil service positions with decent pay and good benefits, but are not positions or jobs with which one can build personal wealth--legally.

Yes, one can and does find some dirty cops (and generals, and admirals (most recently); but this illegal activity stems from the fact that these positions are not generally jobs with which one can build personal wealth legally, and it is the exception rather than the norm.

[EyesWideOpen]

To understand the full extent of the sickness within the Thai police force, just do some research

on the blue diamond affair. When high ranking policemen are involved in murder for hire, there

is something seriously wrong with the dept. If Prayuth can clean house there , he will go down in

history with Thais singing his praises..

[4dyg]

pardon me but i though it was the army that dealt with m-79 grenades and AK-47 assault rifles not the police.

[beautifulthailand99]

To understand the full extent of the sickness within the Thai police force, just do some research

on the blue diamond affair. When high ranking policemen are involved in murder for hire, there

is something seriously wrong with the dept. If Prayuth can clean house there , he will go down in

history with Thais singing his praises..

Many sites with info about this shameful episode will be blocked in the LOS.

[Jay Sata]

Let's not forget most of the transfers involve those close to Thaksin including the Bangkok police chief who appeared in the press with a signed photo of himself and Old Square Face.

[DekDaeng]

It won't mean anything unless MOJ gets a kick up the khyber too.

[fab4]

To understand the full extent of the sickness within the Thai police force, just do some research

on the blue diamond affair. When high ranking policemen are involved in murder for hire, there

is something seriously wrong with the dept. If Prayuth can clean house there , he will go down in

history with Thais singing his praises..

Actually it won't be Prayuth in charge of the reform - it's his brother. No nepotism here.

[doggie888888]

I suspect in Thailand, reform basically means purging the old cronies and bringing in my own set of cronies, cousins, mates, pet dog, slaves, serfs and sundry disciples who owe me big time.

Doesn't matter who is in charge. They all want to "reform" everything, when in power!

[spidermike007]

The very concept of actual law enforcement in this country boggles the mind. Imagine the average policeman converting himself from a revenue collection agent, into a law enforcement official? That would be a major transformation, and would benefit the country to no end. What would it take? Here is what it would take, in my opinion:

1. The central government getting serious and committing more money to police reform, than the previous Yingbat committed to the rice pledging scheme. I am estimating it would require a minimum of 15 billion dollars to train, equip, and bring up to iinternational standards, the police department nationwide.

2. Forensics. Billions would have to be spent bringing the police out of the dark ages, when it comes to crime labs, technicians, modern equipment, processing, computer systems, training, etc.

3. Salary. Compensation nationwide would have to double. Currently, from what I am told, the starting salary is around 8,000 to 10,000 baht per month, for the rank and file guys. A Sergeant Major, who has been with the force for 10-15 years, earns about 16,000 per month. I hear many police use money from their own pockets to pay for equipment, as the state is too stingy and misguided, to equip them properly.

4. Overseas training. The only way Thailand is ever going to bring itself up to an international standard, when it comes to detective work, and forensics, is to either train overseas, or bring in experts from overseas to head up the training in the labs, and in the field. Does anyone imagine something like this could ever happen?

I could go on, and on, and on. But, you get the message.