Purchase House in Thailand/Retirement VISA

[lcp0761]

I (we) will be retiring in 2-years to Thailand with my Thai National wife of 5-years.

We are considering purchasing a house in Thailand and am wondering if I should purchase it in both of our names versus to purchase the house only on my wife's name.

Advantage of both names --- so I can show for Thai Immigration purposes my financial contribution to the house (approx. $6M Baht) in support of my claim for a retirement VISA.

Advantage of only my wife's name --- probably cheaper and less complicated to take advantage of Thai National financial benefits.

Note - I am a US citizen and my wife is a Thai National and currently working on her US Citizenship (she will be a duel national both Thai & US). I previously worked in Thailand for 3-years as a US Govt employee. We were legally married in the US/never filed marriage documentation at a Thai Ampur office. My wife has not changed her Thai National status (from a Thai National to a US) thinking when we annually travel back to Thailand and retire, she will have full Thai benefits (i.e. medical, immigration,...). She has two Thai National boys from a prior marriage (6 & 8 years old). She also has a house in her name 1-hour north of Bangkok.

Question: should we purchase our Thai retirement house in only her name versus both our names? Please cite advantages/disadvantages of both.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Foreigner can't legally buy and own a house in Thailand.

Only option her name.

Disadvantage, she dumps you and keeps the house, which happens to a surprising number of foreigners with long term relationships the moment they move back to Thailand.

If she already owns a house in Thailand, why not live there?

Edited May 29, 2014 by AnotherOneAmerican

[chiang mai]

I not an expert in these things but it seems to me that your wife could buy the property in her name and at the same time she could grant you a 30 year lease, supported by an ufstruct (the right to live in the property). That lease can be registered at the Land Office to provide you with the security you require and also gets your name on the (yellow?) book for identification purposes. That approach probably simplifies inheritance matters also since the property is in your wife's name. Anyone?

[lcp0761]

Thanks for your reply ---

The house she currently owns is located in a 100% Thai village (no falangs). My retirement preference, which she is good with, is to have a 2nd house closer to the beach near an Expat community.

You are correct a Foreigner can't buy a house but isn't there a process where she would be a 51% owner and I would be a 49% owner through a legal arrangement?

Note - re: she dumping me once we return to Thailand. As in any marriage, either party could decide they need to separate from the other.

[ubonjoe]

You will not be able to use the house to get an extension of stay at immigration.. The only thing that can be used is money in a Thai bank or income.

Having US and Thai nationality both will change nothing for her benefits or rights here.

You need to register your marriage here. It will require having your marriage certificate translated to Thai and the translation certified by the Ministry fo Foreign affairs. Then a trip to do the Amphoe to do the registration.

You cannot own land here even jointly with your wife.

You can own a house but not the land it is on.

In my opinion you should just buy the land and house in your wife's name. It will make things much simpler and less costly,

You are going to get many different opinions on here.

Edit: You can set up a 51/49 partnership with your wife to own the land. The partnership then owns the land.

[chiang mai]

The OP refers, I think, to limited company ownership whereby the 51%/49% aspect comes into play. That's a possible avenue for you although it provides far less security for you since there is no ufstruct in place and you can't control the company. Note: the Land Office has cracked down on this type of ownership in recent years. Note also: you need to pay company accounting and return expenses each year.

[lcp0761]

Re: the comment on "registering our marriage in Thailand". Why is this an issue or a concern as we thought it would be best for her to keep her Thai name?

[TerryLH]

"Advantage of both names --- so I can show for Thai Immigration purposes my financial contribution to the house (approx. $6M Baht) in support of my claim for a retirement VISA."

Even if you could do that, it's irrelevant.

The big requirement for getting a single entry Non O visa based on wanting to retire is the age. 50 years old. That's basically all there is to it.

For an extension at immigration, they'll want to see 800,000฿ in a bank account in your name OR 65,000฿ a month income verified by your embassy OR a combination of the two showing you have a total of 800k per year.

They won't care how much you've spent on this or that.

It's a simple process, really. For most, no strings attached. Meet the requirements and you're in.

Good luck.

Ask again before you are ready and get details.

"Re: the comment on "registering our marriage in Thailand". Why is this an issue or a concern as we thought it would be best for her to keep her Thai name?"

She can keep her Thai name. That changed many years ago.

Edited May 29, 2014 by TerryLH

[ubonjoe]

Re: the comment on "registering our marriage in Thailand". Why is this an issue or a concern as we thought it would be best for her to keep her Thai name?

You can register your marriage without her needing to change her name.

There no reason for her not to change her name though. It changes nothing legally.

My wife has my name because she had no choice (but she would of done it anyway) because we got married before the law was changed. It has created no problems at all for her.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Thanks for your reply ---

The house she currently owns is located in a 100% Thai village (no falangs). My retirement preference, which she is good with, is to have a 2nd house closer to the beach near an Expat community.

You are correct a Foreigner can't buy a house but isn't there a process where she would be a 51% owner and I would be a 49% owner through a legal arrangement?

Note - re: she dumping me once we return to Thailand. As in any marriage, either party could decide they need to separate from the other.

First,

Thai law states no contract between husband and wife is legally binding.

So any company or agreement you set up between yourselves, either of you can cancel at any time unilaterally.

If you must own a property, buy a condo in your own name. Hua Hin is nice.

[Suradit69]

Ignore the comments about never buying property in Thailand and that a surprising number of marriages fall apart.

While there are any number of people who have no business buying property or getting married, it sounds as though you are a rational adult (which isn't the case for a surprising number of posters here) who is quite capable of making such decisions in concert with his wife.

Depending on your circumstances, renting a house or condo or buying a condo might be better options, but you're probably able to make a decision about that on your own. Initially renting a place might be advantageous if you're unsure how you'll like whatever location you've chosen and it will give you some time to look at what's available for purchase.

Good luck with whatever you do. Making decisions about your new home and getting settled in should be a fun experience for you both. You can often get useful information here at Thai Visa, especially in the forums that deal with such things as Immigrations or housing, but you'll also encounter a lot of frustrated malcontents who are perpetually unhappy and want to spread the unhappiness wherever they can.

A surprising number of people get married to Thais and have a wonderful life in Thailand, but they make less noise than the small number who have failed. You'll probably be one such happy couple. Ignore that Debbie Downers on this website and when making new friends wherever you live don't let them suck you into their world of negativity.

Edited May 29, 2014 by Suradit69

[everett kendall]

I am retired with a Thai/US wife in Chomburi, I have lived here for over 2 years.

She is actually more US in attitude than Thai, as she lived in the States for 35 years.

On a retirement visa the amount of money you are to have in your bank account
WHEN filing is 400,000 baht, and it has to be there for 3 months when first filing.
showing the bank. For annual renewals it is still the same amount but the bank book and letter from

the bank can be substituted with a stamped letter from the US Embassy.

If you are on a married visa it is 800,000 baht. Same here on the letter from the Embassy.

We have a house in company name. Me 49%, she 40%, and a very close (not her relative) Thai friend 11 %.

I can only be out voted if the Thai friend votes with her, but I am the managing partner.
When you have a house in company name the minimum Thai partners is 2, a Thai partner can even
be a clerk at the lawyers office. Yes, we pay yearly taxes, about 25,000 baht includes lawyers fees.

The amount of money invested in a house (or condo) 5 million baht (as you say you want to spend)
does come in to consideration for something, but I forget exactly what right now.
Don't buy more house than you need, too many extra bedrooms means relative coming to live with
you and it could be permanent.

If you have any other questions please feel free to ask.

[stoli]

Thanks for your reply ---

The house she currently owns is located in a 100% Thai village (no falangs). My retirement preference, which she is good with, is to have a 2nd house closer to the beach near an Expat community.

You are correct a Foreigner can't buy a house but isn't there a process where she would be a 51% owner and I would be a 49% owner through a legal arrangement?

Note - re: she dumping me once we return to Thailand. As in any marriage, either party could decide they need to separate from the other.

First,

Thai law states no contract between husband and wife is legally binding.

So any company or agreement you set up between yourselves, either of you can cancel at any time unilaterally.

If you must own a property, buy a condo in your own name. Hua Hin is nice.

Maybe you can tell the OP where he should open his bank account, where to shop, and what food to eat. I like how you are busy telling him where to live, and what to buy. Your services must be in great demand.

[meatboy]

I am retired with a Thai/US wife in Chomburi, I have lived here for over 2 years.

She is actually more US in attitude than Thai, as she lived in the States for 35 years.

On a retirement visa the amount of money you are to have in your bank account

WHEN filing is 400,000 baht, and it has to be there for 3 months when first filing.

showing the bank. For annual renewals it is still the same amount but the bank book and letter from

the bank can be substituted with a stamped letter from the US Embassy.

If you are on a married visa it is 800,000 baht. Same here on the letter from the Embassy.

We have a house in company name. Me 49%, she 40%, and a very close (not her relative) Thai friend 11 %.

I can only be out voted if the Thai friend votes with her, but I am the managing partner.

When you have a house in company name the minimum Thai partners is 2, a Thai partner can even

be a clerk at the lawyers office. Yes, we pay yearly taxes, about 25,000 baht includes lawyers fees.

The amount of money invested in a house (or condo) 5 million baht (as you say you want to spend)

does come in to consideration for something, but I forget exactly what right now.

Don't buy more house than you need, too many extra bedrooms means relative coming to live with

you and it could be permanent.

If you have any other questions please feel free to ask.

ignore the above,first stop calling retirement visa,its an extension of stay,and its not 400k for retirement ex.its 800k.and if you go the marriage way its 400k not 800k.but for this the marriage needs to be registered in Thailand.going the co.way of purchaseing a property forget that aswell.there is plenty of info in the housing forum as to why you shouldn't go down that route.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

To the OP...

1. As correctly stated above, buying a house in Thailand, or you spending the money toward that, is totally irrelevant toward you obtaining/qualifying for either a retirement or marriage-based extension of stay.

2. While there are arguments back and forth about the wisdom of farangs spending money toward houses here, one thing I'd never do was plunk down a lot of money toward living in a particular location that I wasn't well-familiar with in terms of living there already via renting or other exposure.

3. A lot probably also depends on the motivation for wanting to buy a house here. If it's just for having a place to live, renting is probably a better and more flexible option and allows you to keep your funds for earnings use. But if it's for buying the wife a piece of future property security, well....

It sounds like the OP might be advised to do some more learning about the rules and realities of a farang living in Thailand.

Edited May 30, 2014 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[juehoe]

Foreigner can't legally buy and own a house in Thailand.

Only option her name.

Disadvantage, she dumps you and keeps the house, which happens to a surprising number of foreigners with long term relationships the moment they move back to Thailand.

If she already owns a house in Thailand, why not live there?

Foreigners can legally own a house - but not land.

Register your marriage in Thailand. In case of a divorce, all things bought/owned in Thailand will be shared 50%-50%.

[chiang mai]

I am retired with a Thai/US wife in Chomburi, I have lived here for over 2 years.

She is actually more US in attitude than Thai, as she lived in the States for 35 years.

On a retirement visa the amount of money you are to have in your bank account

WHEN filing is 400,000 baht, and it has to be there for 3 months when first filing.

showing the bank. For annual renewals it is still the same amount but the bank book and letter from

the bank can be substituted with a stamped letter from the US Embassy.

If you are on a married visa it is 800,000 baht. Same here on the letter from the Embassy.

We have a house in company name. Me 49%, she 40%, and a very close (not her relative) Thai friend 11 %.

I can only be out voted if the Thai friend votes with her, but I am the managing partner.

When you have a house in company name the minimum Thai partners is 2, a Thai partner can even

be a clerk at the lawyers office. Yes, we pay yearly taxes, about 25,000 baht includes lawyers fees.

The amount of money invested in a house (or condo) 5 million baht (as you say you want to spend)

does come in to consideration for something, but I forget exactly what right now.

Don't buy more house than you need, too many extra bedrooms means relative coming to live with

you and it could be permanent.

If you have any other questions please feel free to ask.

There is hardly any fact in your post, it's all back to front.

The funds have to be in the bank for two months the first time around, three months thereafter.

It's 400k for a married visa, 800k for a single.

If using the income approach, embassy letters can be used but NOT for funds on deposit.

Company law now requires more than three directors.

[kkup]

Buy the house in her name and get the 30 year lease. The simple solution in my opinion, I've done it myself. My wife also took my surname and has been no issues whatsoever.

[prism]

My advise is to register your marriage in Thailand. I did mine at Baan Rak in Bangkok, no hassles like in some other Amphurs. Should you buy a house, register an Usafruct agreement with the local land office, this will put your name on the Chanote(Not as an owner but a registrant). You should be able to obtain a yellow Tabian Baan book with this arrangement. Having the Yellow book and a happy marriage does make life easier in Thailand. I'm assuming that you both want a house to provide a good environment for her children. My first consideration in buying a house would be to provide a nice place for all of you to live in rather then as an investment.

The marriage visa financial requirements are less but it's a real hassle to obtain compared to a retirement visa.

I'm not a lawyer, just my advise so you might want to consult with one.

Happy retirement

Edit: Spelling.

Edited May 30, 2014 by prism

[BB1955]

Sent you a private msg

[Thaiready]

Foreigner can't legally buy and own a house in Thailand.

Only option her name.

Disadvantage, she dumps you and keeps the house, which happens to a surprising number of foreigners with long term relationships the moment they move back to Thailand.

If she already owns a house in Thailand, why not live there?

I built my home 10 years ago before I was a Thai Citizen...100% in my name....the land was in my Wifes.

[MrBanks]

I am with the people who have advised you to buy in your wife's name and take a 30 year lease. As previously stated the lease is shown on the land title (chanoot) and registered at the land office.

My wife and I did this on a piece of land that we then decided to split into smaller lots, my wife went off to the land office to take care of splitting the land, the land office refused to do it unless I was present and authorised it. Proving to me that my name, as a leaseholder, on the title carried some weight and gives me some protection.

I am not worried about protecting myself from my wife, in my case I wanted to protect myself from any problems with her family should she die before me.

You do not mention how familiar you are with Thailand, again as others have suggested, I would recommend renting for a while and spending some time having a look around. Thailand is very diverse and the different areas have varying appeals, what I like you may not like and so on. I toured all over before settling where I am, I don't regret my choice and feel very settled.

Good luck with your move here, I hope that you have a happy retirement.

[AnotherOneAmerican]

Foreigner can't legally buy and own a house in Thailand.

Only option her name.

Disadvantage, she dumps you and keeps the house, which happens to a surprising number of foreigners with long term relationships the moment they move back to Thailand.

If she already owns a house in Thailand, why not live there?

I built my home 10 years ago before I was a Thai Citizen...100% in my name....the land was in my Wifes.

"Buy" and "Build yourself" are different, and different rules apply.

When you "Buy" a house, house and land get registered in the same THAI name.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

One question I'm not clear on here:

I'm familiar generally with the suggested approaches mentioned above about doing leases for a house and obtaining a usufruct.

But I'm also familiar with what one member posted above about Thai family/marriage law providing that any contract/legal agreement between a husband and wife can be unilaterally voided by either party, I think, at any time during the marriage or up to one year after.

So I know the lease and usufruct approach can work if executed prior to a couple getting married. And it can be used to protect a husband from relatives in the event his wife should pass away prematurely. But it's not clear to me that they're a legally binding approach if done AFTER a couple is married in Thailand, in terms of preventing a wife from taking the house from a husband.

Of course, the OP stated he was legally married in the U.S., but not yet registered the marriage here in Thailand. So I'm also not sure where that would leave the status of a lease executed here prior to the existing U.S. marriage being registered in Thailand.

[stgrhe]

With regards to buying a house or a condominium in Thailand please consider the following:

1. Houses is Thailand do not have title deeds, only land and condominiums have.

2. Land cannot be owned by foreigners with the exception of a very few special circumstances.

3. The dwellings can in fact be owned by foreigners by going through the procedure of separating the land from the dwellings, but the advantaged of doing so is rather limited.

4. A condominium can be registered by a foreigner provided the rules are met. The advantage of registering the title in the foreingner's name is a likely higher resale value provided the condo is located in an area where many foreigners live.

5. If land is purchased than habitation rights can be obtained by: a) leasing; usufruct; c) superficies; or d) right of habitation. For a married couple I do recommend a usufruct right valid for life.

6. Many foreigners circumvent the law by registring a limited company and then let the company buy the land. This procedure is unlegal period! Note, because the law enforcement is very slack, doesn't mean an unlegal method becomming legal.

7. Before purchasing any real estate make sure you do a proper due diligence.

8. Finally, as mentioned earlier, anything you purchase in Thailand while being married is legally and equally owned by husband and whife irrespectively of who singned the title deed.

With regards to visa nad extention of stay please note the following:

1. A Non-Immigrant O visa can be obtained from a Thai consolate or embassy provided you a) are married to a Thai; are 50 years old or older; or c) have a child that is a Thai citizen.

2. A Non-Immigrant O-A visa can be obtained if you are 50+ and meet the criterias.

3. In Thailand you cannot extend a visa, but you could extend you temporary permittion to stay.

4. For a one year temporary extension of stay:

a) If married to a Thai, or have a Thai child, you will need a minimum monthly income of 40,000 baht or have had 400,000 baht in a Thai band for a minimum period of two months. *)

If unmarried or without a child, you need a monthly income of minimum 65,000 baht, or have had 800,000 baht in a Thai band for a minimum period of three months, or a combination of income and money in the bank.

*) The "marrige route" is much more complicated than the other and you need also prove that you are permanently living together with your wife / child.

Good luck

[smotherb]

You should not buy a house anywhere you cannot be the owner without circumventing the law.

[uptoyoumyfriend]

Buy the house in her name and get the 30 year lease. The simple solution in my opinion, I've done it myself. My wife also took my surname and has been no issues whatsoever.

very simple and cheap to get is a userfruct on the property-she owns it - but the right to use it is yours, it is registered in the deed at the land office - i remember paying 180bt ?

[Krataiboy]

There are a number of options worth considering.

At the time of the house purchase you can ask your wife to sign a contract entitling both of you to live in the property as long as you wish for the rest of your lives.

You could also ask her to make a Will leaving the house to you should she die first. As a falang you would have to apply (to the Interior Ministry if I remember rightly) for permission to sell the property and the deal would have to be completed within six months.

When the property is originally registered in your wife's name, you will have to sign a document stating that the money used is your wife's (a bare-faced lie but TIT!) and that you have no claim on the marital property. However this does NOT mean you have no rights should she subsequently "dump" you.

Thai divorce law states that all assets of a marriage acquired AFTER the marriage - irrespective of whose money was used for the purchase - should be divided equally between the parties upon divorce.

A lot of falangs erroneously believe they have NO property rights at all if they buy a house in their Thai wife's name and declare the money as hers. But at least two lawyers I have consulted on this particular question are adamant that this is not the case and have shown me evidence of falang clients who have been granted half the proceeds of the sale of a marital property bought for Thai spouses with their money. The law may seem contradictory, but it does actually offer falang husbands protection.

In the case of an uncontested divorce, you would simply need to agree between you to divide the proceeds of the marital property sale and submit an agreement to this effect along with your divorce application to the local amphur.

Problems with property division only arise where a divorce is contested. Let's imagine you one day found yourself in this unfortunate position. Obviously, if you had a "life" contract to stay in the house, your wife would not be legally able to throw you out. If you were to leave voluntarily, you would have to wait three years before filing for divorce whereas she could file within one year.

I'm not a lawyer, but I have been involved in a lot domestic legal stuff involving myself and friends and this is my understanding of the law insofar as it affects your situation. Check with the ThaiVisa free legal advice service or a qualified Thai lawyer.

Hope this helps.

[poweratradio]

The OP should brush up on the Thai citizenship laws governing his Thai national wife. The law states that if a Thai takes the citizenship of another country then they lose their rights and privileges of their Thai citizenship. So I advise that mum's the word and proper use of the 2 passports would be the new rules for this OP 's wife.

[chiang mai]

The OP should brush up on the Thai citizenship laws governing his Thai national wife. The law states that if a Thai takes the citizenship of another country then they lose their rights and privileges of their Thai citizenship. So I advise that mum's the word and proper use of the 2 passports would be the new rules for this OP 's wife.

That is untrue, there is no loss of privileges. For Thailand, dual citizenship has been legal since 1992.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/658321-thai-wife-with-dual-citizenship-her-status-now-in-thailand/