Purchase House in Thailand/Retirement VISA

[poweratradio]

The OP should brush up on the Thai citizenship laws governing his Thai national wife. The law states that if a Thai takes the citizenship of another country then they lose their rights and privileges of their Thai citizenship. So I advise that mum's the word and proper use of the 2 passports would be the new rules for this OP 's wife.

You are wrong. There is no Thai law that forbids Thai's having dual nationalities.

Actually I DO stand corrected but the Canadian web site needs a correction as well. I was seeking information on this very topic re: duel citizenship and the Services Canada site led me astray saying it is forbidden in Thailand and Japan.

[MikeandDow]

The OP should brush up on the Thai citizenship laws governing his Thai national wife. The law states that if a Thai takes the citizenship of another country then they lose their rights and privileges of their Thai citizenship. So I advise that mum's the word and proper use of the 2 passports would be the new rules for this OP 's wife.

You are wrong. There is no Thai law that forbids Thai's having dual nationalities.

Actually I DO stand corrected but the Canadian web site needs a correction as well. I was seeking information on this very topic re: duel citizenship and the Services Canada site led me astray saying it is forbidden in Thailand and Japan.

apology accepted I can tell you MOST embassy/ consulate web site's are way out of date, not a very good source of info

[Arkady]

When you register your marriage in Thailand these days you get to choose whether you keep your surname or adopt your spouses, although I don't think the option to take your wife's Thai name is available to foreign husbands. Even if she takes your farang surname, it makes no difference to her rights to own land etc.

Buying land in the name of a Thai company has been made difficult since 2006. If there is any foreign shareholder, director or any suspicion that the company might be a front for a foreign to buy land, the Land Dept is obliged to investigate the Thai shareholders to ascertain how they acquired the funds to start the company and buy the land. They will also be asked to explain what type of business they intend to do and what is the reason the company wants to spend its entire capital plus maybe some borrowings on buying a residential house which won't help the company's business at all. A company is a rather a pain and costs money to administer. It can be investigated and struck off, if it never has any operating income (rent is not operating income).

Buying in the wife's name with a 30 year lease or usufruct makes most sense. She could ask a court to void an agreement made between man and wife but while the lease or usufruct is in place, she won't be able to sell or mortgage the land because no one would want it encumbered. Apart from wives selling up your house from under you, wives hocking it is the next most common problem.

[Arkady]

The OP should brush up on the Thai citizenship laws governing his Thai national wife. The law states that if a Thai takes the citizenship of another country then they lose their rights and privileges of their Thai citizenship. So I advise that mum's the word and proper use of the 2 passports would be the new rules for this OP 's wife.

That is untrue, there is no loss of privileges. For Thailand, dual citizenship has been legal since 1992.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/658321-thai-wife-with-dual-citizenship-her-status-now-in-thailand/

Attaching a string thread with all suggesting it is legal does not make it so hotshot. I suggest all should check for the laws. We are only going by the Consulate's advice.

Actually it has nothing to do with 1992. That thread refers to 1992 as the date that children of Thai mothers and foreign fathers born anywhere in the world became eligible for Thai nationality under the 1992 Nationality Act. Previously that was possible for children of Thai fathers and foreign mothers but not vice versa.

The wording regarding the case under discuss has not been amended since 1965. It is thus:

Section 22. A person of Thai nationality who has been naturalized as an alien, or who has renounced Thai nationality, or whose Thai nationality has been revoked, shall lose Thai nationality.

That is ambiguous but rest assured that the interpretation since 1965 has been that Thais naturalized as aliens have the option but not the obligation to renounce Thai nationality. If you ask the Interior Ministry, they will tell you that you have the obligation to renounce Thai nationality but they don't enforce it because they are worried about the ambiguity of the law and there are now thousands and thousands of Thais who have naturalized as aliens without surrendering their Thai nationality. Of course those who naturalize as Korean, Taiwanese, Malaysian, Singaporean, German, Austrian etc have to renounce Thai nationality because they need to show firm evidence of renunciation to obtain or retain their new nationality. Few farang countries require that though fortunately, apart from the racist Germans and Austrians who have this provision to discourage their Turkish "guest workers" from naturalizing. Prior to the 1965 Nationality Act the wording was: "A person of Thai nationality who has been naturalized as an alien shall lose Thai nationality." That was unambiguous and the law was enforced to strip Thai nationality from Thai known to have naturalized as aliens.

Not much point asking foreign consulates for advice on Thai law.

[MikeandDow]

The OP should brush up on the Thai citizenship laws governing his Thai national wife. The law states that if a Thai takes the citizenship of another country then they lose their rights and privileges of their Thai citizenship. So I advise that mum's the word and proper use of the 2 passports would be the new rules for this OP 's wife.

That is untrue, there is no loss of privileges. For Thailand, dual citizenship has been legal since 1992.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/658321-thai-wife-with-dual-citizenship-her-status-now-in-thailand/

Attaching a string thread with all suggesting it is legal does not make it so hotshot. I suggest all should check for the laws. We are only going by the Consulate's advice.

Actually it has nothing to do with 1992. That thread refers to 1992 as the date that children of Thai mothers and foreign fathers born anywhere in the world became eligible for Thai nationality under the 1992 Nationality Act. Previously that was possible for children of Thai fathers and foreign mothers but not vice versa.

The wording regarding the case under discuss has not been amended since 1965. It is thus:

Section 22. A person of Thai nationality who has been naturalized as an alien, or who has renounced Thai nationality, or whose Thai nationality has been revoked, shall lose Thai nationality.

That is ambiguous but rest assured that the interpretation since 1965 has been that Thais naturalized as aliens have the option but not the obligation to renounce Thai nationality. If you ask the Interior Ministry, they will tell you that you have the obligation to renounce Thai nationality but they don't enforce it because they are worried about the ambiguity of the law and there are now thousands and thousands of Thais who have naturalized as aliens without surrendering their Thai nationality. Of course those who naturalize as Korean, Taiwanese, Malaysian, Singaporean, German, Austrian etc have to renounce Thai nationality because they need to show firm evidence of renunciation to obtain or retain their new nationality. Few farang countries require that though fortunately, apart from the racist Germans and Austrians who have this provision to discourage their Turkish "guest workers" from naturalizing. Prior to the 1965 Nationality Act the wording was: "A person of Thai nationality who has been naturalized as an alien shall lose Thai nationality." That was unambiguous and the law was enforced to strip Thai nationality from Thai known to have naturalized as aliens.

Not much point asking foreign consulates for advice on Thai law.

“Section 13 of the Citizenship Act 1965 stipulates that a female Thai national who marries a foreigner and is later granted citizenship by her foreign husband’s home country shall maintain her Thai nationality.

There is no Thai law that stipulates that she must lose her Thai citizenship. However, she may choose to revoke her Thai citizenship, a decision the Thai government will announce the Government Gazette.

This works for Thai men also

[lcp0761]

Foreigner can't legally buy and own a house in Thailand.

Only option her name.

Disadvantage, she dumps you and keeps the house, which happens to a surprising number of foreigners with long term relationships the moment they move back to Thailand.

If she already owns a house in Thailand, why not live there?

I built my home 10 years ago before I was a Thai Citizen...100% in my name....the land was in my Wifes.

So what is the best method to send money to Thailand (looks like a wire transfer)? And does the Thai govt assess and charges for sending large amounts of money (i.e. $100K USD)?

[ubonjoe]

So what is the best method to send money to Thailand (looks like a wire transfer)? And does the Thai govt assess and charges for sending large amounts of money (i.e. $100K USD)?

There are no government charges for bringing any amount of money into the country.

The least costly way to send the money from the US through ACH transfers via Bangkok Banks branch in New York to an account here,. You would first need to open an account at Bangkok bank here.

[lcp0761]

Foreigner can't legally buy and own a house in Thailand.

Only option her name.

Disadvantage, she dumps you and keeps the house, which happens to a surprising number of foreigners with long term relationships the moment they move back to Thailand.

If she already owns a house in Thailand, why not live there?

I just returned from LOS and saw condo listings which said "Foreign owned" vs "Thai owned". Other than a culture ownership thing, does this mean anything when buying the unit?

i.e. if it is Thai owned, does it have to be bought by another Thai? And vice versa for "Foreign owned"?

[Soutpeel]

Foreigner can't legally buy and own a house in Thailand.

Only option her name.

Disadvantage, she dumps you and keeps the house, which happens to a surprising number of foreigners with long term relationships the moment they move back to Thailand.

If she already owns a house in Thailand, why not live there?

I just returned from LOS and saw condo listings which said "Foreign owned" vs "Thai owned". Other than a culture ownership thing, does this mean anything when buying the unit?

i.e. if it is Thai owned, does it have to be bought by another Thai? And vice versa for "Foreign owned"?

It more than a cultural things, there are foreign ownership quota's in a lot of condo blocks in other words foreigners can't own more " X" amount of the units

My suggestion, before you do anything as regards buying any form of property in Thailand, research all the angles / relevant laws and scams, the info is out there seems to me currently your as tad naive, so you would be better renting for an extended period until you understand what your getting yourself into as regards purchasing property in Thailand

[Mario2008]

Every condo building has a limit to the % of condos that can be owned by a foreigner. Because of the law not more than 49 percent of the complex can be owned by foreigners.

[Suradit69]

Every condo building has a limit to the % of condos that can be owned by a foreigner. Because of the law not more than 49 percent of the complex can be owned by foreigners.

At one time some buildings were excluded from that restriction. Can't recall when, probably following the 1997 era crash.

Not sure if the exemption for specific buildings applied forever or only for a limited time or if that exemption has been used in some cases in more recent times.

[lcp0761]

"Advantage of both names --- so I can show for Thai Immigration purposes my financial contribution to the house (approx. $6M Baht) in support of my claim for a retirement VISA."

Even if you could do that, it's irrelevant.

The big requirement for getting a single entry Non O visa based on wanting to retire is the age. 50 years old. That's basically all there is to it.

For an extension at immigration, they'll want to see 800,000฿ in a bank account in your name OR 65,000฿ a month income verified by your embassy OR a combination of the two showing you have a total of 800k per year.

They won't care how much you've spent on this or that.

It's a simple process, really. For most, no strings attached. Meet the requirements and you're in.

Good luck.

Ask again before you are ready and get details.

"Re: the comment on "registering our marriage in Thailand". Why is this an issue or a concern as we thought it would be best for her to keep her Thai name?"

She can keep her Thai name. That changed many years ago.

Thanks for your response.

I will have the requires $800K THB in a Thai bank account in my name only - no concern with this issue.

No concern with putting the house in only her name and she kicking me out,...

I guess what I am unsure about as I see housing/condo listings say "Foreign ownership" or "Thai owned". What does this mean or how does it impact the purchase process, if at all?

Thanks ---

[gk10002000]

neglecting the housing issue for a moment, if you do get properly married in the eyes of Thailand, can't you get a visa extension due to being married?

[lcp0761]

consider renting you can up and move when ever you want or when you may need to. 51% always beats 49%, if you do buy lease from your wife for 30 years via a solicitor and if you want to have your lease pass to another but a succession clause in at the land registry.

As stated many many guys kicked out of their own houses even after years of happy marriage. Giving a wife control is handing her an awful lot of money which would go along way back in the ville. Also strong possibility of peer pressure to do it.

I presently live in housed leased off a guy from his ex wife, he had a succession clause for his new partner but no clause to sub let which again is/ can be a nightmare. Moved into to my new house after 10 days landlord died. learnt alot last 2 weeks and paid old landlord and new landlord for the same month and deposit.

Mine field renting easey peasey.

Added extra make a company as many do, but immigration officer told me if you work on that house in a company name in theory need a work permit.

A lot of "for sale" condo's or single family units have a bullet which states "Foreign owned" or "Thai owned".

Question - does this mean anything to the purchaser, positive or negative? Advantageous to either a Foreigner or Thai?

[BritTim]

You really believe that if they are aware that a farang is involved that everything will still be "Thai price"?

Each to his own.

It varies depending on who you are dealing with. If you are living somewhere like Pattaya, you are very likely to run into people who think, sometimes correctly, that farangs are an easy mark. In most parts of Thailand, the prices generally quoted will be the same regardless of nationality. Rarely, farangs may even get a better deal!

[BritTim]

A lot of "for sale" condo's or single family units have a bullet which states "Foreign owned" or "Thai owned".

Question - does this mean anything to the purchaser, positive or negative? Advantageous to either a Foreigner or Thai?

There is no advantage to being part of the Thai allocation (except it may be cheaper). In an area with heavy foreigner demand for condos (such as Pattaya) a condo from the foreign allocation (which is basically what foreign owned means) may be easier to sell, and will usually attract a higher price. Foreigners cannot own condo units that are from the original Thai allocation.

[Gumballl]

Buy the house in her name and get the 30 year lease. The simple solution in my opinion, I've done it myself. My wife also took my surname and has been no issues whatsoever.

All depends on how you view "issues". When I built my house it would have probably cost 25 to 30 percent more if my wife had a farang name. She did all the negotiations with drawings, materials, builder and authorities. Even Thais have to put money in envelopes to get things done, they just need smaller envelopes.

My wife has had my name since the day we got married and has had no such experience.

That only happens if somebody lets it happen.

Or if you get lucky (like I did) and marry a woman whose immediate family is in the house construction business. Although I did put down the seed money for the land/house, my wife contributed more than 50% of the cost of the house. She pretty much has only had to pay for materials, not labor, unless it is a specialized profession... such as for the electrician.

[DavisH]

Foreigner can't legally buy and own a house in Thailand.

Only option her name.

Disadvantage, she dumps you and keeps the house, which happens to a surprising number of foreigners with long term relationships the moment they move back to Thailand.

If she already owns a house in Thailand, why not live there?

Foreigners can legally own a house - but not land.

Register your marriage in Thailand. In case of a divorce, all things bought/owned in Thailand will be shared 50%-50%.

What paperwork is involved for legally owning a house but not the land? How does that work? Does that require a company to be formed or can any Joe on a retirement extension / non-imm B do it? And does anyone on this board actually have that?

[ubonjoe]

Questions about land, house and condo ownership should be posted here on the Real Estate, housing, house and land ownership forum.

[IMA_FARANG]

The OP should brush up on the Thai citizenship laws governing his Thai national wife. The law states that if a Thai takes the citizenship of another country then they lose their rights and privileges of their Thai citizenship. So I advise that mum's the word and proper use of the 2 passports would be the new rules for this OP 's wife.

You are wrong. There is no Thai law that forbids Thai's having dual nationalities.

The OP did mention that his wife had US citizenship,i thought anybody who took on US citizenship had to revoke other citizenships.Can claim Thai citizenship again i suppose.Why i mention this is Rupert Murdock had to give up being an Ozzy to take up US citizenship.Tell me if im wrong,glad to be corrected.

-------------------

Their is NO requirement under U.S. law to renounce citizenship of another country to become a U.S. citizen.

Other countries may have in their law that dual citizenship is not allowed but NOT in U.S. law.

In order to become a U.S citizen there is a residence requirement for residence in the U.S, and to become a citizen for a foreigner there is a citizenship test they must pass to become a U.S citizen.

I believe Murdoch's problem was in becoming a U.S. citizen and an Ozzie also was that his ownership of certain business interests in Australia caused conflict of interests with also owning interests of similar companies in the U.S.

That conflicted with certain business interests In the U.S and U.S monopoly laws applied to him trying to run those similar businesses as both an U.S. and a Australian citizen which violated U.S monopoly rules as a dual citizen.

In Thailand, many laws dealing with dual citizenship for Thais were changed or abolished about 1990, making dual citizenship for Thais much easier than before that time.

Edited June 17, 2015 by IMA_FARANG

[ubonjoe]

People should look at the date on the posts they are replying to. Replying to a post that is over a year old is not really needed.