Share your problems of recruiting decent Thai staff

[Spoonman]

your running a business yet using gmail.............. say's it all really.

[MuuDaeng]

your running a business yet using gmail.............. say's it all really.

Many Thai, and farang, small business owners use gmail and hotmail. Not very confidence-inspiring or professional style, but also a little odd as many of them have .com website...

[Strangebrew]

Look I will leave you with some quotes Thainess= Means being lazy and smart as buffalo, Don't Thai me = there lieing. Lazy usless good only for boom boom.

[mrowe1973]

Hire a bar girl to give blow jobs in the break room. You'll have the happiest farang staff in all of Thialand plus everyone will want to work for you! Problem solved!

[singa-traz]

I'm amazed at the number of foreigners who start a business in Thailand and complain about unreliable and unmotivated staff. I've lived here for a few years and I realized in the first few months what the score was. If you go to a Thai restaurant, they all serve exactly the same food. If you go to a Thai hardware store, they all have exactly the same items. There is no individual thought here. they are not taught how to think in schools. They are programmed via rote and routine and propaganda. Yet you expect these same people to suddenly become highly motivated free thinkers with a good work ethic just because they are working for you? There is a reason they call the 3rd world the 3rd world. You should have done your homework before opening a business here. I've seen so many foreign businesses fail here.

I offered my Thai wife's brother a job working for my company. He was already enrolled in a university learning electronics so he had the skills. The only stipulation was he had to be proficient in English. He would have been starting with a salary of 180,000 Baht/month. He turned down the job because he didn't want to learn English. He is now working in a factory in Chonburi that makes tires for cars. He's choking on fumes all day and making less than a tenth of what he could have made if he had just learned to speak English. I don't think I could ever understand the thought process behind how/what many Thai people think.

I think the best thing to do is not try to change the Thai people. We should come here and try to get along in their world, not try to change them. They don't think like we do and they shouldn't be forced to. They have many good qualities and they have a way of life that works for them. The best way to live here is to bring your own money and relax and enjoy life. It would be too stressful for me to have a business here and I don't envy the people that do.

It can be read differently ... 180KTHB/M is not enough for your brother in law to work for/with you.

What skills can he have to start with such salary?

[samran]

Employ the 10 cleaners.

[socksy01]

I have a different problem but simular. I need to hire bar girls in Chiang Mai. They are not easy to find and very difficult to train. fortunately those we hire have stayed. they are making lots of money and that is the attraction - lots of money.

I could help train them for free.

[ChoakMyDee]

I'm amazed at the number of foreigners who start a business in Thailand and complain about unreliable and unmotivated staff. I've lived here for a few years and I realized in the first few months what the score was. If you go to a Thai restaurant, they all serve exactly the same food. If you go to a Thai hardware store, they all have exactly the same items. There is no individual thought here. they are not taught how to think in schools. They are programmed via rote and routine and propaganda. Yet you expect these same people to suddenly become highly motivated free thinkers with a good work ethic just because they are working for you? There is a reason they call the 3rd world the 3rd world. You should have done your homework before opening a business here. I've seen so many foreign businesses fail here.

I offered my Thai wife's brother a job working for my company. He was already enrolled in a university learning electronics so he had the skills. The only stipulation was he had to be proficient in English. He would have been starting with a salary of 180,000 Baht/month. He turned down the job because he didn't want to learn English. He is now working in a factory in Chonburi that makes tires for cars. He's choking on fumes all day and making less than a tenth of what he could have made if he had just learned to speak English. I don't think I could ever understand the thought process behind how/what many Thai people think.

I think the best thing to do is not try to change the Thai people. We should come here and try to get along in their world, not try to change them. They don't think like we do and they shouldn't be forced to. They have many good qualities and they have a way of life that works for them. The best way to live here is to bring your own money and relax and enjoy life. It would be too stressful for me to have a business here and I don't envy the people that do.

It can be read differently ... 180KTHB/M is not enough for your brother in law to work for/with you.

What skills can he have to start with such salary?

He wouldn't be working for or with me, he would be working alone as a contractor on a day rate with no benefits starting at 6000 Baht/day hence 180K/month. That would be a starting salary. But he would need good English to deal with clients and would need to travel all over the world. I'm not going to go into too much detail here. The point of my post was to show that money doesn't mean as much to them as you might think it does.

[smotherb]

I am not one to complain but are you sure you are in the right country, if you want quality staff?

Yeah, ever go out to dinner with friends in Thailand, or other Asian countries, and all be served at the same time?

Rarely, and if you do, I'll wager it's a farang place, or run by a local who has falang experience. That 'one-burner mentality' is a cultural thing. Thais/Asians are used to family dishes, where everyone shares the same food. Consequently, no one is left out when the waiter brings only one dish at a time.

However, please note the 'rarely' caveat--unless it is at a falang/falang experienced place. Can you guess what happened, how all the food was served at one time? The falang/falang experienced owner trained the Thai staff.

You may need to take more time to indoctrinate your Thai workers on what you expect.

[Steiner]

I've never had to employ staff in Thailand but I've employed hundreds in my career.

The interview consisted of them demonstrating to me what their CV or credentials said they could do. If they claimed to be a spreadsheet hotshot, I'd give them a bundle of data and tell them to build me a spreadsheet and tell me why they were doing it that way.

If they claimed to be able to able to interpret financial data to a certain level, I'd give them a balance sheet or a P&L and ask them for a one page written analysis.

On a practical level, if they claimed to be able to drive a forklift, I'd throw them in one and tell them to unload/load a truck for 15 minutes.

Even down to spelling - I insisted on a hand written letter of application. Plus I always gave them a very simple IQ test with maths/spelling/general knowledge/comprehension tests to varying levels depending on the job requirements.

The wheat soon separate themselves from the chaff and often I'd end up giving the job to the least educated or least qualified, because they were able to demonstrate their potential - I rarely got shat on.

No reason why you can't do these sorts of things with any nationality. It's all down to how well the employer goes about recruitment. If it's done half aresed, you'll get half arsed employees - in Thailand or anywhere.

Your first sentence makes the rest of your post pointless.

Thai staff are completely different to western staff and even though we conduct an hour long interview and a 3 day induction before offering them a post the turnover is incredibly high.

Reasons for leaving (or disappearing without a trace being normal) can range from not being allowed to have facebook on the computers to sick parents, appears Bkk is the safest place to live as the parents outside of it are dropping like flies!

As the OP said I outsource a lot of work to India and Eastern Europe, work gets done fast and well with minimal glitches due to the level of English Thai staff are generally far below the level of other countries.

I have 2 companies and I wouldn't dream of letting Thai staff lose on a contract for a customer, they do admin work and answer phones for a Thailand based business and even then I had to have a program written so that they would ask for the relevant data and input it on the system.

Months of me asking for lead data and getting red in the face made me realise that machinery needs a good software program to make it work and if you think of Thai staff as something that need constant instruction and QC then putting systems in place will save you a lot of grief and a stroke!

[Myran]

I have no experience in hiring staff in Thailand, but judging by many of my classmates at my university in Bangkok, I´d say universities would be a prime hunting ground for finding hard-working staff. Many of them are extremely diligent and always deliver their work on time.

You could even ask the (farang) professors which students consistently hand in top-notch work on time.

Just a tip.

[realenglish1]

I have had a business with 10 Thai workers and you will be hard pressed to find someone with intuitive. That is not a word Thais understand, They are not shown how to think out of the box. Not like westerners. And you can expect a revolving door. 3 to 6 months maybe 9 months if your luck One way to help is hold pack one month pay. Pay in arrears We did and it helped or clearly hold back some pay for they final payment one month after they leave. Ther other would be a bonus system based on time worked but then it is not paid in one lump sum It is paid in 2 parts one in the middle and one around February or so. The next is to have a good bonus of Food. Once a month have a food day. Your office orders in good food for lunch Take a consensus as to what they want. One reason they come and go is the social system . Most know that no matter how old they are they can always go home if they want to, Lots just work 6 0 9 month get some money and go back to the province You have to look for this

There are other things you can do but this will surly help some We used it and it works

[maanoi]

Not coming to interviews. Not showing up for first day after getting the job. Never answering the phone. Coming late. Asking to be paid early....the list of problems I have goes on ans on and on

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect Thailand mobile app

[Suradit69]

Another one - we once had another member of staff who told me she needed 3 days off because her mother had died. Of course I said, take as long as you need and let me know if there is anything else I can help you with. 5 days later she turned up for work. I welcomed her back. Later that evening after her first day back, as she finished work, who should pull up at the end of the road to pick her up, but the only the mother who was meant to have died 3 days earlier!!

Similar issues in another country, not Thailand, that took me awhile to get used to. Quite often mother, grandmothers, aunts and other older women in the (often extended) family were spoken of in English as "mother." Likewise, actual siblings, cousins and even more remote relations of a similar age were spoken of as "brother" or "sister."

The fact remains that, for whatever reason, you chose to set up your business in Thailand and, as far as the government is concerned that only makes sense to them if you are employing Thais. You clearly have communications problems beyond those of just language and have little idea how to manage your employees in a way that will result in the sort of results that you want. You can shift the blame onto the employees for not responding as you would expect employees back in farang land to do, but offering them free coffee and lunch may not impress them nearly as much as it does you, and obviously they don't feel you are providing a work environment in which they are comfortable/productive.

The way you posed the thread title: "

Share your problems ...

pretty much says it all. Why would you not solicit solutions or successful approaches to managing staff rather than looking to share tales of other people's failures? You really just want others in your situation to pat you on the back and validate your frustration by posting anecdotes of other failed experiences.

[pancakeman]

Share your problems ...

pretty much says it all. Why would you not solicit solutions or successful approaches to managing staff rather than looking to share tales of other people's failures? You really just want others in your situation to pat you on the back and validate your frustration by posting anecdotes of other failed experiences.

Sometimes you need advice, other times you just need pat on the back and a bit of sympathy.

[luk AJ]

I employ 45 Thai workers and Staff. There is no magic trick and I absolutely can confirm the OP experience. I am daily confronted with the most unbelievable situations. I tried special bonus, higher salaries etc... I have the impression Thai people like to move around,

[MobileContent]

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I have no experience in hiring staff in Thailand, but judging by many of my classmates at my university in Bangkok, I´d say universities would be a prime hunting ground for finding hard-working staff. Many of them are extremely diligent and always deliver their work on time.

You could even ask the (farang) professors which students consistently hand in top-notch work on time.

Just a tip.

+1 Good point. We only hire from CU, TU and some times from BU. If we have a good budget we hire from AIT

[PattayaPhom]

Wate of time even looking. We have enough work for at least 2 more staff if not more...tried last year was more troule than anything. 40K a month with all other benefits and still couldnt get or keep anyone worth having. Plenty of Faceache fannies out there whats up and lining all day. Such a shame but hey thats what the vast majority of Thais work ethic is.

[luk AJ]

I hate to get into Thai bashing but I'm just about at my wits end with this.

I want to know if other foreign business owners in Thailand are going through the same problems as me with regards to recruiting Thai staff and about the pressures that farang owned businesses are put under to meet the Thai/farang quota for work permits.

We're a farang owned business, therefore we need to employ a certain number of Thai staff to meet our quota for our work permits.

However, it is so difficult to find skilled Thai staff, who are able to use their initiative, think for themselves, work hard and meet deadlines. That's before we even try and get through any communication issues.

So far this year our office has been like a revolving door with our Thai staff, despite offering good salaries, good working conditions, free lunch and coffee and flexible working hours.

Most recently, the latest one to go was a graphic designer who spoke excellent English, promised everything and delivered nothing. The final straw came when I asked him why he hadn't sent me a document which he had already missed two deadlines for as I need to send it to the printers for mass production. His response was that he didn't know how to attached a document in Gmail. I mean really...what can you do?

When I eventually got hold of the document after getting it from his desktop myself, the design is not of a particularly good standard.

Don't even get me started on Thai web developers or programmers.

So now I'll have to waste another month recruiting someone, letting them settle in and seeing how they work out. That's if they don't just disappear after pay day, never to be seen again.

Another one - we once had another member of staff who told me she needed 3 days off because her mother had died. Of course I said, take as long as you need and let me know if there is anything else I can help you with. 5 days later she turned up for work. I welcomed her back. Later that evening after her first day back, as she finished work, who should pull up at the end of the road to pick her up, but the only the mother who was meant to have died 3 days earlier!!

We also spoke to a girl last week who was meant to come for an interview at 10am on Tuesday. At 10:50am, her friend finally called me to say that the girl wouldn't be coming to the interview because she couldn't find a parking space near our office!!!

You can't help but laugh but it's driving me insane. We got paid a visit by Immigration and the Labour Dept this morning and now we don't meet the quota for farang/Thai staff, so we need to find someone asap.

I think the only thing left for me to do is find some freelancer web dev/graphic designer/programmer in India or somewhere and then just employ some Thai staff to sit in the office and play facebook all day for 10k per month.

Perhaps I could employ 10 Thai cleaners in order for us to meet the work permit quota -at least I'd have the cleanest offices in Thailand.

Do any other farang business owners just employ people to sit in the office in order to meet the requirements for work permit?

And before anyone asks, I don't want messages from freelance graphic designers/web devs replying to this post.

mm

[Changnoi2]

A good way to retain staff and have better control is hold back a certain amount of their Salary for your Insurance. Of course you dont tell them this when they apply for the job. Irf they kick up a fuss, tell them its just procedure as I don't want anyone nicking stuff or walking out one me but you wont do that will you as you promised so much in the interview, whahaha.

I do it myself, I hold back 250 Baht a week until I get 10,000 bhat from them . If they walk out they dont get it. If they give a Months notice no problemo.

[marcusd]

Hire a bar girl to give blow jobs in the break room. You'll have the happiest farang staff in all of Thialand plus everyone will want to work for you! Problem solved!

No, Not all. I would not and neither would my fellows like me. Also I have good Thai staff keen and workaholics. LuckY? No I fdo not think so. 66 million here to choose from. JUST SELECT BETTER.

[davejones76]

Thai staff can be a huge challenge for foreigners. Action levels are usually low and they wait for instructions from top. An expression in Thai language where the buffalo doesn't move when you are not politely talking to the buffalo prevails. When you lose temper or patience the buffalo gets stubborn and will not put one step forward.

We hired different Thai employees in different companies. I can say that the recruitment process is one of the most time consuming wasting times of my daily schedule. People copy and ask friends to translate resumes, while they are not speaking any word of English at all. This is how we soluted to this.

1. After receipt of resume we will call the candidate early in the morning. Do they sound sleepy or lazy on the telephone you most likely can set a first conclusion and also not invite them if your feeling is not right.

2. if you decide to invite the candidate we also do this early in the morning to see how punctual someone is in being in time. Most people who are not that motivated will drop here out already and not even show up.

3. When we do the interview we carefully look at presentation and motivation and go through every step of the resume and ask very insight questions. If people proudly show their portfolio we ask them indepth on the projects they made as most designers grab it from the internet and create their own

Designers are usually freelancers here in Thailand. They can make much more money than working for someone. This said we always listen to strong motivations why they want to work in the office. We always ask them, without knowing, you work probably as a freelancer. Is it smart to give up your freelance job with 100,000 a month to a designer salary? On the spot we mostly see them thinking and we push them mostly in that thought hard enough. The smarter ones drop out, the less smarter ones will continue.

4. If you think that some designer is good enough, check out where he lives and how far it is from your offfice. The resume address doesnt need to be the real living address. Check how he comes to the office, car or bts, and how long he travels. If it is a female, does she have children as this can major impact work times.

5.. After all sounds positive and you still convinced that the candidate should prevail, I always do a last test where I start asking about where they want to go in life, what is important for them. A lot of them will answer that they are planning to open a company or work independent. A bounce falls off again.

That is why in most cases i already do the pre selection on the telephone in most cases. If I plan to hire someone I let the person do a test run in the office. For designers especially i give them a paid project to see where it ends. If they sit in the office and the telephone is continuously ringing you can already conclude that the job offer is on the second place.

6. In a positive scenario where the person succeeded we will come to the salary and conditions negotiations. Salary and money is in Thailand an issue. They run to someone else for 100 Baht. But where you can get them loyal and long staying is

- Give sense to what they do

- Include support to non-profit causes as this important in Thai society such as design work or active participation

- Give for example benefits that also involves the family. A medical or dentist insurance where the family members can benefit from.

- Organize Family day. Let the parents, sisters who ever come to your office for a party. You think I am mad, but when the father and mother see what the child is doing, it makes them proud and when they drop out they have to explain to their family. Respect and lose face becomes an issue.

- Let them participate in training programs, during work hours, English or computer causes to improve skills taught by yourself or your partner in the office with lunch

- Make the payment cycle more complicated, so they have difficulties to leave. This can be where you for example pay salary per 4 or 2 weeks, but commissions during they year, not all at once but 1/3 in the first quarter until the last quarter. They know what is coming and if they know they will experience harder times to leave.

7. As a manager I experienced that initiative is hard to open up. In foreign management styles it is based around freedom of thinking, expression and initiative. Forget this. The only way to get the train rolling is to sit in the front where you bring in the ideas as seed for thoughts they will in a later stage give back as their own. Let them feel that way. You prepare the projects and follow the tasks for completion. If people not complete in time, let them give a reason for your conclusion and move on.

With respect Thais are good people. They are labor people. Labor people who follow instructions and not have learned to think. This starts already in schools, but continuous when they grow up. Food for thougt doesnt have a meaning here. Foreigners are more strategic thinkers. To get the job done,combine these 2 as Thais are very good in getting a job completed and faster then we foreigners can do.

At last bring sometime a present for them or for their father or mother. This works really well. Not more than 3,000 baht. Let them write the address on the mail box and your messenger brings it to EMS to be sure it is delivered. This creates loyalty with staff and family for your company.

Hope this advise will work. I am happy to assist if you need extra information. All the best.

[CharlesHH]

The culture-based attitude toward work is to do it seldom, in as short a time as can, and only to get food for tonight. Sure, that is not always applicable, but is a basis of the great live and let live life attitude that we all like. Work/job is not to make a career, not to please a boss, not to keep long time, and not a way to stop the fun. It is a means to an end and the end is often to eat now.

The strong thread of fatalism underpins this attitude...... the idea that whatever happens was already in the fates hands and whatever you do or decide is really already fixed so why worry about the future so much.

The workers with good work attitudes are usually able to get slightly more pay, but they seem in the minority.

[ravip]

Has anyone ever thought if there EVER was, is or will be a real successful Falang/Thai (or any other Asian) relationship? Family, business whatever...

Just analyze the sarcastic, degrading, high-nosed comments (majority) appearing about Thais/Asians and still would one expect those targeted to show any respect?

Are the accusers so very superior compared to their accused?

Hmmmm... a penny for your thoughts, although extremely unpalatable.

[pinkpanther99]

your running a business yet using gmail.............. say's it all really.

Yes, we use gmail for business. Gmail interface but branded with our company. It's an excellent solution, easily accessible by all staff from any device all over the world.

Incredibly convenient, easy to use and extremely reliable.

Say's it all really.

Edited June 7, 2014 by pinkpanther99

[pinkpanther99]

Thanks for those of you who contributed. And as someone said earlier, please feel free to share you success stories with Thai staff - they can't all be bad!

Some of the advice I'll follow from here includes linking up with a local university to see if we can maybe get some graduates on some kind of internship, see how that works out. Maybe we could show them the ropes before they pick up any bad habits!

Also, we need to look at our actual interview process. Maybe a 2 day interview/trial process as mentioned previously could be the way to go.

[Cloggie]

My first boss told me, check their back ground......

If he is from a rich family, just forget it - he is not interested in working for you, he will just not show up anymore even if you still own him a one or two months salary.

Example, if he is a system engineer who makes TB 35.000 / month and comes to his work in a car TB 4.000.000 = 114 times his salary - do you think he is motivated to work?????

Only hire 'poor' people, people who need the money - skip the rich guys / girls!

Just my 2 satang