NACC resuming inquiry into rice pledging scheme

[mikemac]

Well, it's been quiet in Bangkok. No Red grenade assaults or PDRC guards stabbing people into comas.

In the quiet, we see the NACC investigating the rice subsidy. We see the junta following the PDRC plan almost religiously. We have a road map to elections...and we also have a PDRC celebration at a French restaurant; a reconciliation party in the North attended only by minority PDRC people there, outright expressing their political views without retribution (who remark that they enjoyed expressing their views while the majority local red shirts watched 'from a distance').

Now every yellow supporter on TVF writes notes like their team won the Ashes, and slyly commenting that no one can verbally oppose them (brilliant observation there).

Looks like everyone feels like they win but everyone loses.

Looks like nothing changed, really. Not one red (now the opposition) has done anything but bow out of politics. The idiots that ranted succession should bow out! Those rants were monumentally stupid, at best.

But all the yellows are not innocent, and all the reds are not thugs.

It was my sincere hope that General Prayuth was walking a tight wire, and had been even handed in corralling both sides. It was my sincere hope that pressure would be evenly applied to stop the pressure cooker from blowing up. It was my sincere hope that court cases on both sides would show even handed justice. It was my sincere hope that we would see constitutional amendments that placed many categories of policy that have been abused by both sides out of reach by requiring a 'super-majority' -- whiuch would mean whoever was in power would have to negotiate with the other sdie if they liked it or not.

Instead I think no PDRC guard will suffer anything more than a slap on the wrist for the many things they have done. Instead I think we will see a dismantling of the leaders of the red movement, which is only treating the symptoms. Now it is fashionable to be yellow, and it's okay to be political as long as you are on the accepted side.

Instead I think we are seeing Frankenstein rise -- a Frankenstein with excellent plastic surgery.

Pretty, isn't he? I am sure he would be happy to have any one of us for lunch.

That reminds me, I must put the garbage out. Thanks mate.

[Crushdepth]

Under the news censorship rules. I am expecting everybody who has ever had anything to do with the Shins to be found guilty of many crimes. Next will be anybody who has been associated with the UDD and then it will be anybody who is critical of the army. Then everybody who demands elctions.

They will all be guilty.

Jeeze guy, give it a rest. Your side lost, in spades.

Democracy has not lost, it is just taking a rest. The people of Thailand will, one day, have democracy again and the Ammart will take it away again, but eventually democracy will triumph.

It is just a matter of time and the people are getting stronger.

I applaud you for supporting democracy. I am sad for you that you believe Thaksin's way of governing was remotely democratic.

Unless you think lying, cheating, stealing, extra judicial executions, oppression of free speech, blocking of transparency and accountability are democratic of course.

Thaksin has the same brand of democracy as Mugabe, Hun Set, Amin, Gaddaffi, and all the other tin pot dictators whose families always seem to do handsomely whilst their countries don't.

^^ this. Full marks for ideological correctness Dr Bruce, but you need to bloody wake up to the reality of what the hell has been going on.

[mikemac]

Well, it's been quiet in Bangkok. No Red grenade assaults or PDRC guards stabbing people into comas.

In the quiet, we see the NACC investigating the rice subsidy. We see the junta following the PDRC plan almost religiously. We have a road map to elections...and we also have a PDRC celebration at a French restaurant; a reconciliation party in the North attended only by minority PDRC people there, outright expressing their political views without retribution (who remark that they enjoyed expressing their views while the majority local red shirts watched 'from a distance').

Now every yellow supporter on TVF writes notes like their team won the Ashes, and slyly commenting that no one can verbally oppose them (brilliant observation there).

Looks like everyone feels like they win but everyone loses.

Looks like nothing changed, really. Not one red (now the opposition) has done anything but bow out of politics. The idiots that ranted succession should bow out! Those rants were monumentally stupid, at best.

But all the yellows are not innocent, and all the reds are not thugs.

It was my sincere hope that General Prayuth was walking a tight wire, and had been even handed in corralling both sides. It was my sincere hope that pressure would be evenly applied to stop the pressure cooker from blowing up. It was my sincere hope that court cases on both sides would show even handed justice. It was my sincere hope that we would see constitutional amendments that placed many categories of policy that have been abused by both sides out of reach by requiring a 'super-majority' -- whiuch would mean whoever was in power would have to negotiate with the other sdie if they liked it or not.

Instead I think no PDRC guard will suffer anything more than a slap on the wrist for the many things they have done. Instead I think we will see a dismantling of the leaders of the red movement, which is only treating the symptoms. Now it is fashionable to be yellow, and it's okay to be political as long as you are on the accepted side.

Instead I think we are seeing Frankenstein rise -- a Frankenstein with excellent plastic surgery.

Pretty, isn't he? I am sure he would be happy to have any one of us for lunch.

Is so transparent its as if they are not even bother to hide how this thing is working.

As soon as censorship blocks are lifted there is going to be uproar.

TS was hated for corruption, cronyism, populist policies, vote buying, putting his friends and supporters in top positions, people without the correct qualifications being put in top positions.

It is only 2 weeks into the current administration, and you could make a strong argument that they have ticked all but a couple of those boxes already.

Yes it is transparent, something the Thaksin regime did not practice.

The uproar will be worth it, if the dross is removed from Thai politics.

................"TS was hated for corruption, cronyism, populist policies, vote buying, putting his friends and supporters in top positions, people without the correct qualifications being put in top positions."................... And rightly so.

It is only 2 weeks into the current administration and there have been marked improvements already. Ask the struggling farmers who finally got paid for their rice.

[jayjayjayjay]

So I'll take from your reply that it is a hunting expedition with no specific charges yet. I'm interested because I think the Rice Scheme was a good thing and hope it or some subsidy like it will be continued to support the rural areas. It would be too bad if embezzlement, outright theft or criminal mismanagement would prove to taint the entire program.

People are usually happier and more content when their problems seem to have melted away under some spell like that of alcohol. Unfortunately the next morning they often awake with a headache and find their problems have returned. Of course they could choose to just keep on drinking. Facing problems sober and head-on is not a lot of fun for anyone.

Honest bill i tried to follow your logic but failed, So you believe any person who was involved in the loss of 500 billion + missing rice has since this coup turned to alcohol?

My logic should be easy to follow. I asked "are there specific charges?" I could add 'against specific people'? You seem to believe there is a loss of 500 billion baht and missing rice. From where or whom did you hear these figures and reports? I've heard rumors and allegations of this too, but that was during the Red Shirt/Yellow Shirt tug-of-war and very subject to skepticism - at least IMO. Is that what this NACC investigation is about?

And 500 billion baht is certainly hyperbole, isn't it? The junta's current payments of the delayed payments are said to total 92 billion. In my area about 2/3 of the farmers had already been paid by the former government. Event if that was only 1/2 my quick math tells me the total couldn't be much more than 200 billion. Where did the claim 500 billion loss come from? And even at that there is no "loss" of 500 or 200 billion. There is still rice to sell, isn't there? And the program never was intended to make a profit or even break even, was it? It was a subsidy. The government bought rice at above-market prices and was then to sell it overseas. Any difference would be made up out of the general fund. That's how a subsidy works.

Is there rice missing? Again, I've heard rumors and allegations of this but have seen no definite accounting. I assume the NACC investigation will cover this also and determine if there is, how much and whether this is due to mismanagement or theft.

My alcohol analogy might be harder to follow. It was in response to GoodThaiGirl's remark that "thailand is much more happier (sic) and stable since 9 days ago". It was merely to remind that some things bring happiness in the short term, but not always a happiness that lasts.

Thanks for engaging with me in a discussion about the Rice Pledging Scheme. I really do want to know why so many Farangs and Thais on this forum seem to be so vehemently disgusted and opposed to it, when in my experience out here in the rural areas it was seen to be of great benefit to the famers and farming communities. It's hard to distinguish between the objections focusing on the program itself, or on just the alleged mismanagement of the program, or just a dislike of the former government in general.

Your (or anyone else's) comments would be appreciated...

Bill, you speak too much logic. TV is full of city dwellers hell bent on throwing mud with little consiquence to their collective action. I have previously supported the Rice Pledging Scheme as my father was a director of the Australian Barley Board which functioned as a strategic marketing authority. The main reason is to bypass the theives known as grain traders. They do and never will work to the benefit of the farmer. They will always profit, not matter how long they go to make a deal. Agricultural subsidies are used by the most weathly nations to the benefit of market manipulation. They control the end prices and that exact point is what the Shinawatra's know and have tried to create. The only way this will not benefit in the same way is if you have idiots like the NACC that provide the market with enought doubt that the scheme might collapse. I would like to see the NACC put over the hot grills for making there investigations so public. According to Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) figures, the average rate of “producer support estimate” for the heavily supported commodities in the United States ranges from about 55 percent of the value of production for sugar to about 22 percent for oilseeds. The U.S. government heavily subsidizes grains, oilseeds, cotton, sugar, and dairy products. Most other agriculture—including beef, pork, poultry, hay, fruits, tree nuts, and vegetables (accounting for about half of the total value of production)—receives only minimal government support. U.S. farm programs have cost about $156 billion per year in government budget outlays in recent years. Among OECD members (a group of high-income countries), “producer support estimate” rates average about 31 percent of total revenue for the main grain, oilseed, sugar, and livestock products. The most interesting fact is that the highest average rates of support are for rice (about 80 percent), where most of the support derives from trade barriers and direct payments. Support to farmers by Japan’s and Korea’s governments is a large part of the total world subsidy for rice. The highest national average support equivalent rates, across all major commodities, are offered in Norway, Switzerland, and Iceland, with average subsidies of about 65–75 percent of the value of production, and in Japan and Korea, with support rates of 60–65 percent. The lowest subsidy rates (less than 4 percent) are found in Australia and New Zealand. The average support rate in the European Unicon is about 35 percent of the value of production. However, in Asia as incomes grew and the population on farms dwindled in such countries as South Korea and Taiwan, those countries’ governments shifted from penalizing farmers to subsidizing them and protecting them from imports. These countries, along with Japan, now have among the highest subsidy and protection rates in the world. Funny that Thailand does not even raise a mention! Japan 1.21%, Korea 2.05%, EU 0.73, Indonesia 3.63%, China 2.37% and USA 1.00% (all statistics from Organistation for Economic Co-operation and Development, http://www.oecd.org/tad/agricultural-policies/producerandconsumersupportestimatesdatabase.htm) I think a good rational source, not wiki or any other less trusted resource. So I say to most TV persons here. What about the rice scheme? What has it really cost, and can you show that it is well outside that of other large agricultural export nations.

[northernjohn]

Under the news censorship rules. I am expecting everybody who has ever had anything to do with the Shins to be found guilty of many crimes. Next will be anybody who has been associated with the UDD and then it will be anybody who is critical of the army. Then everybody who demands elctions.

They will all be guilty.

Jeeze guy, give it a rest. Your side lost, in spades.

Democracy has not lost, it is just taking a rest. The people of Thailand will, one day, have democracy again and the Ammart will take it away again, but eventually democracy will triumph.

It is just a matter of time and the people are getting stronger.

I applaud you for supporting democracy. I am sad for you that you believe Thaksin's way of governing was remotely democratic.

Unless you think lying, cheating, stealing, extra judicial executions, oppression of free speech, blocking of transparency and accountability are democratic of course.

Thaksin has the same brand of democracy as Mugabe, Hun Set, Amin, Gaddaffi, and all the other tin pot dictators whose families always seem to do handsomely whilst their countries don't.

It would seem from his posts that he cares nothing for the people. He supports all the things you have mentioned Thaksin is guilty of. In one year there will be an election and by then the slime will have been cleared out. This in turn will allow new faces to enter into politics and they will come in knowing that the mandate is not to kiss Thaksin's ass it is to be honest and do what ever they can to improve the life's of the Whole nation.

MY only concern is will they do some thing about the south. Flushing the Shinawatra clan down the toilet is only a start. They must come to terms with the citizens. Let them know that the government is really on their side.