Member With A Problem!

[sbk]

Don't know much about it? Really? Well, that is your opinion

You fail to realize that there is a difference between RELIGION and SPIRITUALITY.

As for the website "debunking" AA, well, since they ran their own treatment program listed on the home page, that seems to me to be an agenda.

My point here isn't your feelings about AA but rather your wholesale dismissal of a program that works for some people. Just as medical treatment works for some people.

What does it matter if it works??? Why do you feel the need to hijack this thread with your own agenda rather than allow people with legitimate problems make their own decisions based on multiple choices? AA is one choice. For some people spirituality is a must in order to make sense of their lives. For you, it isn't. Thats fine but please, enough with your need to make AA some kind of evangelical religious organization. It isn't. That is just your opinion.

And just for your information, I do have some experience with it. All total, years of sobriety for all members of my family that gained sobriety with AA:

90 years.

[Boon Mee]

I am on alcohol free day 4.

Good on ya, JD

I'm on alcohol-free day 5 only because there's no booze within 150 miles!

[Neeranam]

"""""Ignorant and cowardly insults aimed at my father might may you feel better about your pseudo-religion and yourself but it doesn't change the points I've made, the sources I've shown and the verifiable facts. Your sponsor would be proud of the AA-speak you use. "You've got a resentment" Don't tell me, I need a Higher Power in my life to help my incurable, bad, scary disease. """"""""

Now I think you're just a pure nut-case. I hope you get better! I simply repeated what you said about your father, no insults. Isn't this the real reason you are on a crusade to belittle AA.

""""""According to AA alcoholics have an incurable disease. I don't know anyone who has this because it is a 70 year old myth. Sorry to burst your bubble. I know plenty of people who AA would call alcoholics and drug addicts who gave up drinking or cut down to sensible levels by themselves. So yes.""""""""""""""

Please just answer the question, why are you avoiding it? Do you know any alcoholics(not drug addicts) who have stopped by themselves for over 5 years? Doesn't even sound like you know what an alcoholic is.

AA NEVER call anyone alcoholics - this proves that you don't know what you're talking about. Only yourself can call yourself an alcoholic.

The difference between religion and spirituality - "religion is for those who don't want to go to hel_l, spirituality is for those of us who have already been there".

[Pink Mist]

I am back to a six pack a night, back in the desert processing uramium again, gotta run the possible breath test every morning

[Jai Dee]

For the rest of us who are problem-drinkers or alcoholics I suggest keeping an open mind to what alcoholism is, the available treatments, the modern scientific, relgious and medical knowledge on the matter and the vunerabilty to exploitation by evangelising groups when people are at weak points in their lives.

I've taken the liberty of editing your post and re-quoting the most pertinent part here.

As I said earlier... different strokes for different folks.

Please can we get back on topic, and offer some help, guidance, and support to those that need it?

And... thanks BM... my house is full of opened and unopened bottles of plonk... and they're gonna stay that way for a while yet.

[thankuverybig]

i think if i had a serious drink problem i would not want to be around my family,because i'd be worrying about them worrying about me.also i'd consider whether the freinds i hung around with were actually the right sort of people to be around with this sort of problem,eg are they givers or takers,at heart,are they good timers,possibly selfish? etc,& i'd consider a change of scenery to get away from anything that reminds me of past drinking sessions or good times,on the beer,the bar scene.

walking past one of the many bars in bangkok,must be painful for an alcoholic.

maybe exercise is a good thing to produce a natural high substitute.

i'm probably the sort who doesnt need people around me though,so its horses for courses,& also i am not actually experiencing the problem.(at the moment)

[Boon Mee]

I am back to a six pack a night, back in the desert processing uramium again, gotta run the possible breath test every morning

A six pack out in the desert?

Shit, that's FA! You can sweat that out in no time.

[Pink Mist]

at night after work and you gotta be zero in the mornin if you draw the card

[Boon Mee]

at night after work and you gotta be zero in the mornin if you draw the card

Be careful then Bronco.

My advantage is there's absolutely no alcohol allowed on site.

Too many accidents I'm sure if there was...

[Pink Mist]

we have no alchohol on work site, but we have a wet mess which is fairly strictly controlled, but at the end of the day it's possible to go to work in the mornin over.

[Boon Mee]

we have no alchohol on work site, but we have a wet mess which is fairly strictly controlled, but at the end of the day it's possible to go to work in the mornin over.

Back a few years on rigs with predominately Brit/Aussie crews we used to have booze aboard in locations like the ME/Egypt etc but no more. Safety is the primary goal these days and the company would rather take 'down-time' rather than get a hand hurt.

[Pink Mist]

Its hard when you live 9 klicks from a town and you are in a camp

[Boon Mee]

Its hard when you live 9 klicks from a town and you are in a camp

"Oh Ruby, don't take your love to town" lol

Sorry - reminded me of that Vietnam song.

[robitusson]

"""""Ignorant and cowardly insults aimed at my father might may you feel better about your pseudo-religion and yourself but it doesn't change the points I've made, the sources I've shown and the verifiable facts. Your sponsor would be proud of the AA-speak you use. "You've got a resentment" Don't tell me, I need a Higher Power in my life to help my incurable, bad, scary disease. """"""""

Now I think you're just a pure nut-case. I hope you get better! I simply repeated what you said about your father, no insults. Isn't this the real reason you are on a crusade to belittle AA.

You've made a mistake Neeranam. Show me the post where I mentioned my father.

I never mentioned my father. You've got me mixed up with someone else. Go back and check before you stoop to "nut-case" insults again.

I'm not on any crusade either and I'm not belittling AA, I'm belittling you. With regard to AA, I'm simply pointing out the facts of AA's "short-comings" and the lack of scientific and medical information in it's programme. Deepest apologies for not painting the rosey picture you'd like. Those irritating little facts have a way of making the whole movement look just terrible.

""""""According to AA alcoholics have an incurable disease. I don't know anyone who has this because it is a 70 year old myth. Sorry to burst your bubble. I know plenty of people who AA would call alcoholics and drug addicts who gave up drinking or cut down to sensible levels by themselves. So yes.""""""""""""""

Please just answer the question, why are you avoiding it? Do you know any alcoholics(not drug addicts) who have stopped by themselves for over 5 years? Doesn't even sound like you know what an alcoholic is.

How can I make it clearer than yes. And I know exacxtly what an alcoholic is and, more importantly, isn't.

AA NEVER call anyone alcoholics - this proves that you don't know what you're talking about. Only yourself can call yourself an alcoholic.

Yes it's quite obvious, isn't it? Keep trying.

Alcoholism is a disease according to AA and it has plenty of questionairre pamphlets and the like distributed by AA which tell people all the time that their alcoholics. They're are also plenty of 12th steppers telling impressionable and vunerable people they're alcoholics and they need a Higher Power to save them from their sin...sorry, disease. This is not the issue anyway. The issue is the disease model of addiction has been debunked and has been shown to be outdated at best. Also AA has a negligble success rate partly bacuse it is primarily concerned with its religious motivations.

The difference between religion and spirituality - "religion is for those who don't want to go to hel_l, spirituality is for those of us who have already been there".

Nice slogan. If you could make it rhyme, it would be even better! Edited July 4, 2006 by robitusson

[robitusson]

Don't know much about it? Really? Well, that is your opinion

You fail to realize that there is a difference between RELIGION and SPIRITUALITY.

I know exactly the difference between the meanings of the two words and I very deliberately and consciously chose religion. As I said initially, how far do you want to get into this? Would you care to discuss why AA is seen as a religion byothers who are experts in this field and know a hel_l of a lot more about this than you or I do?

Besides I have no problem with religion as such. I am a member of a religion myself.

As for the website "debunking" AA, well, since they ran their own treatment program listed on the home page, that seems to me to be an agenda.

Does it nullify what they are saying? If so, how? I also posted many quotes from other publications and sites. I presume by your not mentioning these that you accept their views.

My point here isn't your feelings about AA but rather your wholesale dismissal of a program that works for some people. Just as medical treatment works for some people.

I didn't dismiss it wholesale. Go back and see. I said good for the 5-10% of people it works for.

I accept it works for some. The rest of us may have to look elsewhere.

What does it matter if it works??? Why do you feel the need to hijack this thread with your own agenda rather than allow people with legitimate problems make their own decisions based on multiple choices?

It doesn't work for the vast majority of people, that's the point, and it actually helps spread ignorance (the disease myth) and fear (religious in nature). You asked me to back up my claims and I've done so and now I'm "hijacking the thread". I've made my point and I haven't seen any counter claims with verifiable facts or studies such as I posted. You don't like what I'm saying but that doesn't stop it from being relevant or true. Allowing people to make informed desicions is precisely what I am doing. The details for contacting AA are pinned to the top of the forum! Where are the contact details for the "multiple choices" you mention?

AA is one choice. For some people spirituality is a must in order to make sense of their lives. For you, it isn't. Thats fine but please, enough with your need to make AA some kind of evangelical religious organization. It isn't. That is just your opinion.

As I said, if you want to get into this matter I can easliy let you know where to find out more about AA's religious and evangelising natures. Nothing to do with my opinion. You may choose to call it spirituality if you like but that's not what it is.

And just for your information, I do have some experience with it. All total, years of sobriety for all members of my family that gained sobriety with AA:

90 years.

I sincerely and honestly congratulate you on that achievement and wish you continued success with it for all of you. Edited July 4, 2006 by robitusson

[NovaBlue05]

Perhaps a separate thread to discuss the inherent dissimilarities between religion & spiritualality as related to addiction recovery would be useful. At least it might remove some potholes from this road.

[Neeranam]

I'm not on any crusade either and I'm not belittling AA, I'm belittling you. With regard to AA, I'm simply pointing out the facts of AA's "short-comings" and the lack of scientific and medical information in it's programme. Deepest apologies for not painting the rosey picture you'd like. Those irritating little facts have a way of making the whole movement look just terrible

Why are you belittling me? Why on earth would i want someone to paint a rosey picture of AA?

I apologise, it seems I did mix you up with another anti AA crusader.

Please share your experiences about alcoholics who have got better all by themselves, isn't that what this thread is about.

It's a well known fact that an alcoholic can not drink in moderation. Are you saying one can?

Please share your personal experiences, so someone having problems can be helped.

If someone, who had drank the same as me, managed to stop drinking by themselves had shared how they did it with me, I would copy them.

I agree with what Carl Jung said - medicine is very limited in helping real alkies, they need some kind of spiritual or psychic change. I believe that alcoholism is about 10% to do with drink and 90% to do with some kind something else either spiritual, or psychological.

BTW these are my personal opinions, nothing to do with AA.

[sbk]

OK, Robitusson, thanks for your posting but i think we have all had enough of it now. I believe it is more important to get back on topic with this thread. If you want to start your own thread debating the merits of various treatment programs then I suggest you do so, but please keep it in a seperate thread.

Thank you.

[robitusson]

OK, Robitusson, thanks for your posting but i think we have all had enough of it now. I believe it is more important to get back on topic with this thread. If you want to start your own thread debating the merits of various treatment programs then I suggest you do so, but please keep it in a seperate thread.

Thank you.

Agreed. Again sincerely the best of luck to you.

[iquittoday]

I wasn't sure to open a new topic, or just to continue this one, anyway, here it is:

I have a serious drinking problem. I have been drinking alcohol since I was 15, I am almost 42 now. I have a wonderful Thai wife with whom I have been together for almost 6 years, and our daughter (3 in August) who is the most fantastic person in the world.

I am European, I live in Thailand since 2001, currently in Chiang Mai and am quite new on the forum, admitting, using a different ID.

I saw this topic, and it just pushed me over the edge to make a decision I wanted to make for a long time. I read Tuky’s posting and the entire thread and was amazed by the replies, the warmth of fellow members. I never realised the power of a forum. I did decide on a new user name for this revelation, maybe I can be myself again when I am sober and feel good about myself.

My dad was a brilliant man and an alcoholic, and that most likely caused the massive and fatal stroke when he was only 59 yo. I still miss him after more than 10 years.

Now here I live under constant stress of trying to make a living, and am not always very successful at it. My excuse for having drinking is to relax and unwind after another stressful day.

For me an alcoholic was always that other person that drinks in the morning, or the person that drinks Sang Som pure etc. Not me, I do not drink liquor, I only drink beer (Chang beer) and I only drink after 18:00. I couldn't drink a beer at the moment, the thought makes me want to throw up. But I know I will want a drink later today.

And then I will have another one, and at least 6 large 700 ml Chang beer. Sometimes more. Every day.

The stress for "survival" doesn't stop though, and I have come to realise that alcohol is not a (temporary) solution, it is not the entire cause either, but it doesn't help.

I am working on a lot of projects that I need to get started or keep going in order to be able to provide for my family, and yet I am getting more and more lethargic.

I want to stop. I am going to stop. I will not drink from now on.

For the first time in my life I have hit a woman, my wife last weekend, after an afternoon, evening and night of serious drinking. I didn’t remember the next morning. I feel so embarrassed and bad about myself. I want to see my family happy, and I want to see my most precious possession, my daughter grow up and make her proud of her daddy and look up to him. I want to wake up feeling inspired to make the best of the day.

I have no plan on how to stop, I will just stop. I will not go to the shop nextdoor and get 3 bottles. I will have to tell my wife not to do that anymore. I hardly ever go out anyway, as I can get 3 large bottles for 100 THB, whereas I pay at least 70 THB for one in a pub.

I read a suggestion of someone to start a blog, as I am online 24/7 anyway, I think that is a good idea. It might not have any visitors, but I know if I write about stuff, it makes sense to me, and it will strengthen me. Here's the link to http://iqquittoday.blogspot.com

This is also a way to thank Tuky(and thaivisa.com and it posters for that matter), whom I don’t know, and probably never will meet, but thanks anyway for the inspiration, I hope you are doing fine!

Sorry to bother you all with this, reading back it turned out quite dramatic (maybe even pathetic), but I got it off my chest, and thanks for listening to me and giving me the opportunity to write this down. I will keep the blog updated as much as I can.

I feel better already, wish me luck.

[Khutan]

I have sent the member a PM, asking for more details.

[whopper]

I wasn't sure to open a new topic, or just to continue this one, anyway, here it is:

I have a serious drinking problem. I have been drinking alcohol since I was 15, I am almost 42 now. I have a wonderful Thai wife with whom I have been together for almost 6 years, and our daughter (3 in August) who is the most fantastic person in the world.

I am European, I live in Thailand since 2001, currently in Chiang Mai and am quite new on the forum, admitting, using a different ID.

I saw this topic, and it just pushed me over the edge to make a decision I wanted to make for a long time. I read Tuky’s posting and the entire thread and was amazed by the replies, the warmth of fellow members. I never realised the power of a forum. I did decide on a new user name for this revelation, maybe I can be myself again when I am sober and feel good about myself.

My dad was a brilliant man and an alcoholic, and that most likely caused the massive and fatal stroke when he was only 59 yo. I still miss him after more than 10 years.

Now here I live under constant stress of trying to make a living, and am not always very successful at it. My excuse for having drinking is to relax and unwind after another stressful day.

For me an alcoholic was always that other person that drinks in the morning, or the person that drinks Sang Som pure etc. Not me, I do not drink liquor, I only drink beer (Chang beer) and I only drink after 18:00. I couldn't drink a beer at the moment, the thought makes me want to throw up. But I know I will want a drink later today.

And then I will have another one, and at least 6 large 700 ml Chang beer. Sometimes more. Every day.

The stress for "survival" doesn't stop though, and I have come to realise that alcohol is not a (temporary) solution, it is not the entire cause either, but it doesn't help.

I am working on a lot of projects that I need to get started or keep going in order to be able to provide for my family, and yet I am getting more and more lethargic.

I want to stop. I am going to stop. I will not drink from now on.

For the first time in my life I have hit a woman, my wife last weekend, after an afternoon, evening and night of serious drinking. I didn’t remember the next morning. I feel so embarrassed and bad about myself. I want to see my family happy, and I want to see my most precious possession, my daughter grow up and make her proud of her daddy and look up to him. I want to wake up feeling inspired to make the best of the day.

I have no plan on how to stop, I will just stop. I will not go to the shop nextdoor and get 3 bottles. I will have to tell my wife not to do that anymore. I hardly ever go out anyway, as I can get 3 large bottles for 100 THB, whereas I pay at least 70 THB for one in a pub.

I read a suggestion of someone to start a blog, as I am online 24/7 anyway, I think that is a good idea. It might not have any visitors, but I know if I write about stuff, it makes sense to me, and it will strengthen me. Here's the link to <a href="http://iqquittoday.blogspot.com" target="_blank">http://iqquittoday.blogspot.com</a>

This is also a way to thank Tuky(and thaivisa.com and it posters for that matter), whom I don’t know, and probably never will meet, but thanks anyway for the inspiration, I hope you are doing fine!

Sorry to bother you all with this, reading back it turned out quite dramatic (maybe even pathetic), but I got it off my chest, and thanks for listening to me and giving me the opportunity to write this down. I will keep the blog updated as much as I can.

I feel better already, wish me luck.

Same story here. I quit 6 years ago this week.

First 30 days are not fun, but it gets alot easier.

focus on not having hangovers.

When you usually drink at 6 , try something like exercise.

you will sleep better.

think of the money saved.

Change routine and stay away from drunk friends for a while, until you are good and dry.

You will live alot longer, that is for sure. Not too mention you wont feel like shit all the time

good luck, only you can do it.

[Jimmy in Bangkok]

To all those posters wishing to rid themselves of a problem here whatever it may be please accept my heartfelt wishes and support for your success.

Tuky, it really took some n**s to come out publicly with that one mate and I truly hope you succeed. I'm also in the drilling industry so I know where your coming from. All the best mate.

Cheers

Jimmy

[chokdii2002]

Tuky,

I wish you luck! I, too, once wrestled with a drinkng problem while living in Thailand, and I know how tough it can be to stop! We are all behind you!

[mrsteve7260]

signed: kettle calling pot black!

It is all a lot easier said than done though isn't it?

Hi. The reason I keep going to meetings is so its not a struggle. I dont go to meetings to stay sober I go so I dont want to drink and use. If it was a daily struggle not to drink I would have drank by now and every day in between would be miserable.

Give yourself your break, there seems to be a few AA people in this forum. Find one who lives in your city (im assuming your in BKK?)and meet up and go to a meeting together. Or call the hotline number on teh website. YOu dont have to walk in alone,

Nothing but a bunch of ex-drunks anyways, surely the majority have tried the will power - I will not go to AA- way.

YOu know you dont have to do that walk home alone by the liquer store everynight.

In AA the obession to drink can be lifted. Imagine the freedom?

There is no rules except the desire to stop using.

You dont have to believe in God, you dont have to be sober to show up a meeting, you dont have stay for the whole meeting and you dont even have to stop drinking!

I got sober in Bangkok and Ill celebrate 5 years on Saturday.

Since you mentioned your problem on a public forum, Ill mention my recovery. (and I usually guard my anonymity ferousciously)

[mrsteve7260]

So much for AA, I needed to contact, tried phone calls, got told "cant hear me" tried again, no ask for my number, again, again no answer. great SUPPPORT when one needs support to give up alcohol. I tried emails, no reply! Thanx for nothing! Give me tequila.

[ThaiPauly]

So much for AA, I needed to contact, tried phone calls, got told "cant hear me" tried again, no ask for my number, again, again no answer. great SUPPPORT when one needs support to give up alcohol. I tried emails, no reply! Thanx for nothing! Give me tequila.

Steve. This is very very unusual.... although AA will not call you back..I must have called them a dozen times since I lived hee and never had any problems getting though. There must have been a problem with their or your phones. If you get no answer its because they are talking on another line. There is only one voluteer manning the phones at any one time..but there IS someone there 24 hours a day, believe me its true.

Don't give up..PLEASE..try again today

TP

[adjan jb]

I quit drinking (a long time ago)

Alone.

It was easy.

I never doubted. I knew I was stronger than booze.

But I still smoke like a chimney.

I don't think that one day I'll be strong enough to quit.

How is it possible to be so strong and so weak at the same time ?

[millwall_fan]

Well, it should be about day 18 for Tuky. How are you getting on mate?

[Neeranam]

Well, it should be about day 18 for Tuky. How are you getting on mate?

Yeah, mate - how's it going?

Are you trying by yourself or with any program/support?