Phuket's Thai guides protest over illegal Chinese guides

[webfact]

Phuket’s Thai guides protest over illegal Chinese guides
Eakkapop Thongtub


Jaifu Sealee, a legal Thai tour guide, wants action.

PHUKET: -- Phuket’s illegal tour guides have again been brought to the attention of the police, after 200 legal Thai tour guides visited Chalong Police to demand the police arrest the Chinese guides working illegally on the island.

Around 200 tour guides visited the station around 2pm today (June 2), to also demand the release of 23 legally working Thai guides, who had been taken in for questioning by Chalong Police. Earlier in the day, the 23 had been questioned by police after they relieved information that guides at Prompthep Cape were intimidating tourists.

Jaifu Sealee, a legal Thai tour guide, who also speaks Chinese, said the group went to Prompthep Cape to take photos of the illegal tour guides operating.

“We are collecting information and will report it to the officials. Someone told the police that we were threatening tourists, but we weren’t.

“Twenty-three of our fellow tour guides were taken into custody by Chalong Police. They had their ID cards checked, but then were released when it was discovered they were working legally.

“We want to be treated fairly, because many of our jobs are taken by illegal tour guides. Usually, Chinese tour companies do not hire Thai tour guides, they just hire Chinese speaking ones only who are illegal. Yes, they might save money, but the Chinese guides are working illegally. We will not tolerate this.”

Mr Jaifu said he and his fellow tour guides would collect evidence of the Chinese guides working illegally, and present it to Phuket Governor Maitri Inthusut.

“Chalong Police promised they will follow up the illegal guides once I show them the photos,” he said.

Chalong Police Station Superintendent Pol Col Kitipas Dejintrasorn told The Phuket News that today’s gathering was not a protest.

“They just came to see their fellow tour guides. Now, they have gone back.”

Source: http://www.thephuketnews.com/phuket%E2%80%99s-thai-guides-protest-over-illegal-chinese-guides-46611.php


-- Phuket News 2014-06-02

[Cuchulainn]

In other words, "only we can scam tourists and not the Chinks"

[NamKangMan]

And out of the other 222 legal Thai tour guides, how many speak Chinese, I wonder????

[mca]

"Ladies and gentlemen. I have in my hand a list of the finalists for the 2014 "Mr. Imposing Tour Guide Where You Regret Leaving The Safety Of Your Hotel Room Celebrity Lookalike " competition.

In runner-up position and standing to my left we have Phuket's very own Johnny Depp and Pirate DVD of the Andaman dealer Sombat Taitpaiboon but the clear winner, traveling all the way from Bangkok and standing over my left shoulder and bearing an uncanny resemblance to Chuwit Kamolvisit is part-time tour guide and full time dodgy geezer Lek Nhonwieng.

Say cheese lads"

Edited June 2, 2014 by mca

[steelepulse]

Not the friendliest looking bunch! I'm sure those 23 Thai guides taken to the station were threatening tourists.

[shirtless]

I feel for them, it all comes down to doing their jobs well if they are scamming tourist it hardly surprising that Chinese tour operators are hiring chinese tour guides , but are they doing it legally.

[clockman]

The golden days are over! reality now. And when Myanmar gets known.! Phuket is history!

[Katipo]

These Protectionist practices breed laziness, entitlement, and no incentive to actually be good at your job.

[falkan]

hahaha

[bigbamboo]

I don't know, Chinese tour guides stealing Thai tour guides jobs.

Makes you want to spit, doesn't it.

[Just1Voice]

I have serious doubts all the Thai guide can speak Chinese. They're just pissed because they are losing out on the scams they normally run.

[hansnl]

And out of the other 222 legal Thai tour guides, how many speak Chinese, I wonder????

That is not the issue.

Nor is it the issue the Thai guides, allegedly, scam tourists.

The issue is that Chinese, so not Chinese speaking Thai, are taking away jobs en work from Thai people.

The issue is that the Chinese and Russian not only bring tourists, but also their own staff, girls, food and drink.

Of course Thai people want to do something about that.

[NamKangMan]

And out of the other 222 legal Thai tour guides, how many speak Chinese, I wonder????

That is not the issue.

Nor is it the issue the Thai guides, allegedly, scam tourists.

The issue is that Chinese, so not Chinese speaking Thai, are taking away jobs en work from Thai people.

The issue is that the Chinese and Russian not only bring tourists, but also their own staff, girls, food and drink.

Of course Thai people want to do something about that.

"That is not the issue" - no, that is the issue.

Chinese tourists are paying for a "tour guide." That involves more than just knowing where certain locations are on the island.

It involves answering questions about local history, prices, meal times, where's the toilet, what time to be back on the bus, what time do we get back to the hotel, where can I buy certain items etc etc etc etc.

The language barrier is the issuethe main issue.

How are these Thai tour guides going to assist their paying tourists with this information, in a professional and informative manner, when they can not speak Chinese?

[MMarlow]

And out of the other 222 legal Thai tour guides, how many speak Chinese, I wonder????

That is not the issue.

Nor is it the issue the Thai guides, allegedly, scam tourists.

The issue is that Chinese, so not Chinese speaking Thai, are taking away jobs en work from Thai people.

The issue is that the Chinese and Russian not only bring tourists, but also their own staff, girls, food and drink.

Of course Thai people want to do something about that.

"That is not the issue" - no, that is the issue.

Chinese tourists are paying for a "tour guide." That involves more than just knowing where certain locations are on the island.

It involves answering questions about local history, prices, meal times, where's the toilet, what time to be back on the bus, what time do we get back to the hotel, where can I buy certain items etc etc etc etc.

The language barrier is the issuethe main issue.

How are these Thai tour guides going to assist their paying tourists with this information, in a professional and informative manner, when they can not speak Chinese?

That, very clearly, is the issue. The Chinese are working illegally, why should they be allowed to do that? If you think they should be allowed to work then you have to allow everyone else who wants to to work in a restricted occupation to do so also. If the Chinese tourists can't understand the Thai guides that's just tough.

[HooHaa]

legalize them.

problem solved.

[kaorop]

And out of the other 222 legal Thai tour guides, how many speak Chinese, I wonder????

That is not the issue.

Nor is it the issue the Thai guides, allegedly, scam tourists.

The issue is that Chinese, so not Chinese speaking Thai, are taking away jobs en work from Thai people.

The issue is that the Chinese and Russian not only bring tourists, but also their own staff, girls, food and drink.

Of course Thai people want to do something about that.

(Cant up a post and now 3rd or 4th 55.)

Like learn to speak Russian and/or Chinese? And then try to understand the cultures?

Chinese is being taught but, learning 700 characters is way beyond me, so I wont get the job.

[star kicker]

i sat in front of an 'english speaking' tour guide guiding a couple of tourists on the tourist boat the other day. given that tour guides are going to give you a lot of information about things that happened in the past you'd think he'd at least be able to use past simple and past continuous - he couldn't. i only had to listen to his atrocious english for 20 minutes. all day would have driven me crazy.

[crazygreg44]

The problem could easily be solved if the tour operators followed a golden rule, long ago established in other countries regarding local legal and non-local, but also legal tour guides working together with foreign tourist groups.

The concept has been in practise for over 30 years by german tour companies based in Thailand long since, and who follow these simple rule, that is :

A guided group of tourists is ALWAYS being catered by a local AND a non-local tour guide.

A few steps of legalization can make it mandatory for tour companies to have to follow this rule.

Every group of tourists will be supported by a tour guide of their own country who speaks their language and has profound knowledge of the history of the tour subject. The group tour then must be accompanied by a local Thai tour guide as well. Preferably, this Thai tour guide should have basic knowledge of the language of said tourists, but this is not a must ! It will be sufficient if the Thai tour guide is being understood by the foreign tour guide. The foreign tour guide can then act as an interpreter and pass on relevant details about the tour, the history, the itinerary, the places to be visited etc. to the tourists in their own language.

The employment of a Thai tour guided must be made mandatory for all tours that are making use of a coach, train or minivans. A rule must be set, at which number of tourists in a group it becomes mandatory to use the help of a local guide. For example, a group of 5 tourists would not constitute the use of a locale guide, but from 6 people onward, the use becomes mandatory.

Employing the mandatory local Thai guide in addition to the Tour Company's own tour guide, will ensure NOBODY is loosing a job, and hopefully result in a boost of quality and informativeness of the guided tours. Scamming during a guided tour will become difficult to non-existent, as the trip will always be under surveyllance of the foreign guide.

Since the extra costs for local Thai guides hired hour/day wise are minimal, the impact on the overall price for a tour would be small and can easily be divided among the tourist partaking the trips.

[Pralaad]

Makes you wonder, why Chinese are working while Thai are filing complaints.

May be someone should tell the Thai guide's to look at what Chinese are doing and copy them.

[steelepulse]

The problem could easily be solved if the tour operators followed a golden rule, long ago established in other countries regarding local legal and non-local, but also legal tour guides working together with foreign tourist groups.

The concept has been in practise for over 30 years by german tour companies based in Thailand long since, and who follow these simple rule, that is :

A guided group of tourists is ALWAYS being catered by a local AND a non-local tour guide.

A few steps of legalization can make it mandatory for tour companies to have to follow this rule.

Every group of tourists will be supported by a tour guide of their own country who speaks their language and has profound knowledge of the history of the tour subject. The group tour then must be accompanied by a local Thai tour guide as well. Preferably, this Thai tour guide should have basic knowledge of the language of said tourists, but this is not a must ! It will be sufficient if the Thai tour guide is being understood by the foreign tour guide. The foreign tour guide can then act as an interpreter and pass on relevant details about the tour, the history, the itinerary, the places to be visited etc. to the tourists in their own language.

The employment of a Thai tour guided must be made mandatory for all tours that are making use of a coach, train or minivans. A rule must be set, at which number of tourists in a group it becomes mandatory to use the help of a local guide. For example, a group of 5 tourists would not constitute the use of a locale guide, but from 6 people onward, the use becomes mandatory.

Employing the mandatory local Thai guide in addition to the Tour Company's own tour guide, will ensure NOBODY is loosing a job, and hopefully result in a boost of quality and informativeness of the guided tours. Scamming during a guided tour will become difficult to non-existent, as the trip will always be under surveyllance of the foreign guide.

Since the extra costs for local Thai guides hired hour/day wise are minimal, the impact on the overall price for a tour would be small and can easily be divided among the tourist partaking the trips.

This was actually done and the local tour guides still objected, complaining that all they did was sit on the bus all day while the Russian/Korean/Chinese guide did all the guiding. You would think that would be a dream job to get paid to do nothing, but that's not how they saw it, maybe because they lost out on their kickbacks/commissions.

[madmitch]

The problem could easily be solved if the tour operators followed a golden rule, long ago established in other countries regarding local legal and non-local, but also legal tour guides working together with foreign tourist groups.

The concept has been in practise for over 30 years by german tour companies based in Thailand long since, and who follow these simple rule, that is :

A guided group of tourists is ALWAYS being catered by a local AND a non-local tour guide.

A few steps of legalization can make it mandatory for tour companies to have to follow this rule.

Every group of tourists will be supported by a tour guide of their own country who speaks their language and has profound knowledge of the history of the tour subject. The group tour then must be accompanied by a local Thai tour guide as well. Preferably, this Thai tour guide should have basic knowledge of the language of said tourists, but this is not a must ! It will be sufficient if the Thai tour guide is being understood by the foreign tour guide. The foreign tour guide can then act as an interpreter and pass on relevant details about the tour, the history, the itinerary, the places to be visited etc. to the tourists in their own language.

The employment of a Thai tour guided must be made mandatory for all tours that are making use of a coach, train or minivans. A rule must be set, at which number of tourists in a group it becomes mandatory to use the help of a local guide. For example, a group of 5 tourists would not constitute the use of a locale guide, but from 6 people onward, the use becomes mandatory.

Employing the mandatory local Thai guide in addition to the Tour Company's own tour guide, will ensure NOBODY is loosing a job, and hopefully result in a boost of quality and informativeness of the guided tours. Scamming during a guided tour will become difficult to non-existent, as the trip will always be under surveyllance of the foreign guide.

Since the extra costs for local Thai guides hired hour/day wise are minimal, the impact on the overall price for a tour would be small and can easily be divided among the tourist partaking the trips.

But tour guiding is an occupation reserved for Thais, therefore the scenario you have presented is not allowed under current laws. The German guides you mention must be working illegally, whether they have work permits or not.

The law should be changed to allow what you have suggested but Thailand is such a xenophobic, protectionist country that I can't see this logical concept ever happening.

[stevenl]

The problem could easily be solved if the tour operators followed a golden rule, long ago established in other countries regarding local legal and non-local, but also legal tour guides working together with foreign tourist groups.

The concept has been in practise for over 30 years by german tour companies based in Thailand long since, and who follow these simple rule, that is :

A guided group of tourists is ALWAYS being catered by a local AND a non-local tour guide.

A few steps of legalization can make it mandatory for tour companies to have to follow this rule.

Every group of tourists will be supported by a tour guide of their own country who speaks their language and has profound knowledge of the history of the tour subject. The group tour then must be accompanied by a local Thai tour guide as well. Preferably, this Thai tour guide should have basic knowledge of the language of said tourists, but this is not a must ! It will be sufficient if the Thai tour guide is being understood by the foreign tour guide. The foreign tour guide can then act as an interpreter and pass on relevant details about the tour, the history, the itinerary, the places to be visited etc. to the tourists in their own language.

The employment of a Thai tour guided must be made mandatory for all tours that are making use of a coach, train or minivans. A rule must be set, at which number of tourists in a group it becomes mandatory to use the help of a local guide. For example, a group of 5 tourists would not constitute the use of a locale guide, but from 6 people onward, the use becomes mandatory.

Employing the mandatory local Thai guide in addition to the Tour Company's own tour guide, will ensure NOBODY is loosing a job, and hopefully result in a boost of quality and informativeness of the guided tours. Scamming during a guided tour will become difficult to non-existent, as the trip will always be under surveyllance of the foreign guide.

Since the extra costs for local Thai guides hired hour/day wise are minimal, the impact on the overall price for a tour would be small and can easily be divided among the tourist partaking the trips.

This was actually done and the local tour guides still objected, complaining that all they did was sit on the bus all day while the Russian/Korean/Chinese guide did all the guiding. You would think that would be a dream job to get paid to do nothing, but that's not how they saw it, maybe because they lost out on their kickbacks/commissions.

Interesting, have a link to the story about that?

Last time you cliamed something here and I asked for a link you never came back.

[NamKangMan]

And out of the other 222 legal Thai tour guides, how many speak Chinese, I wonder????

That is not the issue.

Nor is it the issue the Thai guides, allegedly, scam tourists.

The issue is that Chinese, so not Chinese speaking Thai, are taking away jobs en work from Thai people.

The issue is that the Chinese and Russian not only bring tourists, but also their own staff, girls, food and drink.

Of course Thai people want to do something about that.

"That is not the issue" - no, that is the issue.

Chinese tourists are paying for a "tour guide." That involves more than just knowing where certain locations are on the island.

It involves answering questions about local history, prices, meal times, where's the toilet, what time to be back on the bus, what time do we get back to the hotel, where can I buy certain items etc etc etc etc.

The language barrier is the issuethe main issue.

How are these Thai tour guides going to assist their paying tourists with this information, in a professional and informative manner, when they can not speak Chinese?

That, very clearly, is the issue. The Chinese are working illegally, why should they be allowed to do that? If you think they should be allowed to work then you have to allow everyone else who wants to to work in a restricted occupation to do so also. If the Chinese tourists can't understand the Thai guides that's just tough.

"The Chinese are working illegally, why should they be allowed to do that" - because Thai's are unable to do the job. They do not possess the skills to do the job property, which in this case, is speak Chinese.

"If the Chinese tourists can't understand the Thai guides that's just tough." - ok, so Phuket loses these tourists to Vietnam. Wow - great idea.

[NamKangMan]

The problem could easily be solved if the tour operators followed a golden rule, long ago established in other countries regarding local legal and non-local, but also legal tour guides working together with foreign tourist groups.

The concept has been in practise for over 30 years by german tour companies based in Thailand long since, and who follow these simple rule, that is :

A guided group of tourists is ALWAYS being catered by a local AND a non-local tour guide.

A few steps of legalization can make it mandatory for tour companies to have to follow this rule.

Every group of tourists will be supported by a tour guide of their own country who speaks their language and has profound knowledge of the history of the tour subject. The group tour then must be accompanied by a local Thai tour guide as well. Preferably, this Thai tour guide should have basic knowledge of the language of said tourists, but this is not a must ! It will be sufficient if the Thai tour guide is being understood by the foreign tour guide. The foreign tour guide can then act as an interpreter and pass on relevant details about the tour, the history, the itinerary, the places to be visited etc. to the tourists in their own language.

The employment of a Thai tour guided must be made mandatory for all tours that are making use of a coach, train or minivans. A rule must be set, at which number of tourists in a group it becomes mandatory to use the help of a local guide. For example, a group of 5 tourists would not constitute the use of a locale guide, but from 6 people onward, the use becomes mandatory.

Employing the mandatory local Thai guide in addition to the Tour Company's own tour guide, will ensure NOBODY is loosing a job, and hopefully result in a boost of quality and informativeness of the guided tours. Scamming during a guided tour will become difficult to non-existent, as the trip will always be under surveyllance of the foreign guide.

Since the extra costs for local Thai guides hired hour/day wise are minimal, the impact on the overall price for a tour would be small and can easily be divided among the tourist partaking the trips.

This was actually done and the local tour guides still objected, complaining that all they did was sit on the bus all day while the Russian/Korean/Chinese guide did all the guiding. You would think that would be a dream job to get paid to do nothing, but that's not how they saw it, maybe because they lost out on their kickbacks/commissions.

I remember this. The Russians did it a lot. They were called, "sitting guides" because they sat there and did nothing, and still got paid.

No one could argue that a Thai's job had been taken, because it wasn't. The guide was just being paid to do nothing, on purpose, to allow a Russian guide to actually, "guide."

Yes, this was still found to be illegal.

Maybe it would have become legal if they had to hire 2 or 3 "sitting guides."

[NamKangMan]

The problem could easily be solved if the tour operators followed a golden rule, long ago established in other countries regarding local legal and non-local, but also legal tour guides working together with foreign tourist groups.

The concept has been in practise for over 30 years by german tour companies based in Thailand long since, and who follow these simple rule, that is :

A guided group of tourists is ALWAYS being catered by a local AND a non-local tour guide.

A few steps of legalization can make it mandatory for tour companies to have to follow this rule.

Every group of tourists will be supported by a tour guide of their own country who speaks their language and has profound knowledge of the history of the tour subject. The group tour then must be accompanied by a local Thai tour guide as well. Preferably, this Thai tour guide should have basic knowledge of the language of said tourists, but this is not a must ! It will be sufficient if the Thai tour guide is being understood by the foreign tour guide. The foreign tour guide can then act as an interpreter and pass on relevant details about the tour, the history, the itinerary, the places to be visited etc. to the tourists in their own language.

The employment of a Thai tour guided must be made mandatory for all tours that are making use of a coach, train or minivans. A rule must be set, at which number of tourists in a group it becomes mandatory to use the help of a local guide. For example, a group of 5 tourists would not constitute the use of a locale guide, but from 6 people onward, the use becomes mandatory.

Employing the mandatory local Thai guide in addition to the Tour Company's own tour guide, will ensure NOBODY is loosing a job, and hopefully result in a boost of quality and informativeness of the guided tours. Scamming during a guided tour will become difficult to non-existent, as the trip will always be under surveyllance of the foreign guide.

Since the extra costs for local Thai guides hired hour/day wise are minimal, the impact on the overall price for a tour would be small and can easily be divided among the tourist partaking the trips.

This was actually done and the local tour guides still objected, complaining that all they did was sit on the bus all day while the Russian/Korean/Chinese guide did all the guiding. You would think that would be a dream job to get paid to do nothing, but that's not how they saw it, maybe because they lost out on their kickbacks/commissions.

Interesting, have a link to the story about that?

Last time you cliamed something here and I asked for a link you never came back.

Here's one of several links.

Funny enough, it was back in 2011 and lists other problems Phuket had, and still has - nothing been done about them for 3 years.

Like I have stated in the past, no positve change here, at all.

http://www.phuketgazette.net/articles/articles/get_article_detail/10593

[thaibutty]

The problem is also that many Thai tour guides are not interested to do the kind of guiding that foreign tourist are looking for. I have been searching for a legal German speaking Thai tour guide to work as freelancers for my own company and when I finally found a few they where all not interested, even though I would have happily paid their 2,500 Baht per day guiding fee.

Why?

Because I wanted them to actually take my customers to temples and Phuket town and have the tour guide explain them about the history and not take the customers to their usual rip off places (Latex factory, jewellery etc)

They actually asked me:

"But how am I supposed to make money from that job??"

At that point I almost lost it.

These guides are getting paid 2500 Baht a day, probably not paying one Baht of tax on it, and all they want to do anyway is to bring tourists to places where they are getting scammed for the highest commission possible.

[LivinginKata]

Enough of the off topic bickering - all removed.

[Inepto Cracy]

Besides the chaps in the blue shirts as part of a uniform, I would not want one of these scuffians leading or being on any of my tours? They look like they are dressed to go sleep around on some park benches or something. Guides my eye, learn how to dress well for respect of your job or company. Disgusting.

Edited June 3, 2014 by Inepto Cracy

[sonn]

I don't know, Chinese tour guides stealing Thai tour guides jobs.

Makes you want to spit, doesn't it.

[crazygreg44]

in reply to post #21 madmitch :

No, the german company was/is Diethelm, Bangkok, a long standing registered company. The foreign tour guides have/had work permits. It is absolutely legal for them to do a job a Thai CANNOT do or perform in the manner required. Seemed Diethelm found a loophole here, maybe the "guide" was employed as a "fluently german speaking hostess" so as to get a permission.

And yes, as other poster here confirm, the Thai tour guides are seeking their share of comissions in "guiding" the tour groups to places of their interest, not of places in the interest of the group tour. Examples have been laying out the problem. The tour I was referring to was guided by my sister in the nineties (18 years ago) and she had a work permit. Of course the Thai guide had no chance for scamming jewelry and beauty product big scale, however he was free to pick a restaurant for the inevitable lunch and late afternoon breaks. This earned him SOME comission at least.

I can clearly see by the unisonic replies to this topic - the root of the problem is GREED