Will I have to pay taxes on my social security or pension

[rwing93]

I am looking at Thailand as a retirement destination next year. I know that you have to pay taxes if you are there for 180 or more. Will I have to pay taxes on my social security and pension income?

[Loptr]

If you mean in Thailand, then no, you do not have to pay Thai tax on US income... Uncle Sugar will take care of that on the US end...

[meatboy]

tax in Thailand no pay,but where is your home country? uk.rules your income is set against your personel allowance over 65,

10,500gbp.anything over that amount is taxed in the uk.

[ubonjoe]

There will be no tax on your pension/SS here. They are exempt from taxes.

[dinger]

They are exempt from taxes here but you will still get hit at the usual rates back home (assuming you are from the U S)

[Pez1947]

Hi. If you are a UK citizen and reside in one of the countries listed on the UK Tax website you will not be taxed at source but at the country of residence. Tough - Thailand is not on the list. The UK Tax Office site is easy to use and they will respond to any relivent questions you might have.

[mrbojangles]

I'm no Tax expert nor Pension expert but I am currently looking at transferring my private pension to either a QROP's or SIPPS as I will be looking to retire to Thailand in 5 or so years. I have therefore been asking my financial advisor several questions on this very subject.

If you look at the attached, it seems there is a Double Tax Treaty with Thailand (page 32) but also look at the notes. It doesn't seem to apply to State Pension but it looks like you can claim your private pension gross and opt to pay the tax in Thailand.

As I say, I am no expert on the subject and am in the early throws of my own research, so I am just posting the pdf for you to read yourselves and maybe find of some use. Those in the know may also be able to add some useful comments.

Double Tax Treaties.pdf

[meatboy]

you will not I repeat you will not be taxed on any income that comes into Thailand pensions or other,but if you work or you have money in any thai bank eg.fixed term accounts you will have tax deducted at 15% as I do and many tv.members we claim it back at the end of the tax yr.you are allowed to earn around 150,000bht before you have to pay any.

[sgtsabai]

No, you don't pay Thailand tax on SS or pensions from the US. There can be tax in the US on your pensions and even your SS if your income is high enough. Some pensions have already been taxed and some haven't. Your 1099 will show taxable portion. I'm thinking somewhere around 38,000 USD (just did the return work in Feb. but still can't remember, have that CRS disease) but don't quote me on that for the beginning of taking the money you worked your ass off for. If when you retire you think your pension + SS will be taxable you can have have some deducted from your pension to pay tax. I have a small amount taken out of one pension and so far I have gotten it back each year.

[IMA_FARANG]

Stop deluding yourself as an American citizen.

You,re eligicle to pay tax in all income you own whether it is earnrd in Thailand or not.

Please note I said eligable to pay not REQUIRED to pay.

And Social Security or SSA is "income".

And YES, there is a dual taxation metod of writing off taxes paid in Thailand which MAY get you a break on your U.S. takex.

But almost alyays your Social Security income and Social Seurity benefits are POTENTIALLY taxable.

(They do come from the U.S. government anyhow, so how can you possiblely believe the U.S. governemnt will let you be not potentially not be eligable for tax on the money they give you?)

In fact, benefits you recieve from the Social Seurity while living are sas pecificall NOT Thai income by SSA rules.

But having said all that you may not have to pay taxes on that money, simply because you income may be too low

I retired in 2010 and nmoved to Thailand in 2010.

In 2010 I was reqired to pay a small amout of tax.

I both 2011, and 2012 becaue of my income I was able to pay NO tax (my income was too low).

I flled the same info this year claiming no tax due.....ALL my income was from Social Seuriy, and because of that fact I could legally meet the minimun income requirement for my age.

My total tax bill for 2011 and 2012 was zero, and I excpect it will again in 2013 (and filed aready).

Also remember, if you have a tax address overseas you can leggally differ filing your tax return for 60 days .... that's June 15th, NOT April 15th.

[larsjohnsson]

I'm from Sweden. And pay between 25-30% tax on my pension. That's in Sweden before transfer it to Bangkok. Here it's nothing

[dinger]

Also don't forget the state tax liability.

You can PM me for some info on that

[maderaroja]

Remember to register your "new" address with the U.S. SSA. If you do not, they may cut you off when they discover the address change. They will mail your notices to the "new" address. If you fail to respond, they may cut you off.

The SSA office covering all of Asia is in Manila.<deleted>

Edited June 6, 2014 by ubonjoe
Removed email address Not allowed by forum rules

[bobbyd1]

There are two certain events if you are an American. Death and Taxes

I attached a good calculator for you to search out the answer. Just plug in the numbers and it will give you a pretty good idea.

http://calcxml.com/calculators/how-much-of-my-social-security-benefit-may-be-taxed?skn=

[Langsuan Man]

Depends upon how much income your pension pays and other income you receive. That will determine how much of a % your US Social Security benefits you will be taxed

Google is your friend:

http://www.ssa.gov/planners/taxes.htm

[Pib]

There are two certain events if you are an American. Death and Taxes

You are correct but the listed order/priority is incorrect...it's Taxes and Death.

[Stan7444]

No, you don't pay Thailand tax on SS or pensions from the US. There can be tax in the US on your pensions and even your SS if your income is high enough. Some pensions have already been taxed and some haven't. Your 1099 will show taxable portion. I'm thinking somewhere around 38,000 USD (just did the return work in Feb. but still can't remember, have that CRS disease) but don't quote me on that for the beginning of taking the money you worked your ass off for. If when you retire you think your pension + SS will be taxable you can have have some deducted from your pension to pay tax. I have a small amount taken out of one pension and so far I have gotten it back each year.

As an addition to the above, being a US citizen on retirement in Thailand and with the only declared income being SS payments, there are NO income taxes incurred in Thailand. Any income incurred outside of Thailand does not kick off a taxable event.

Also, if SS is the ONLY source of income, there are no longer IRS filing requirements and no taxes are due to the US. If there is other income which one wants to declare, then taxes will be assessed on the extra income, plus some of the SS payments.

This is straight from my US CPA whom I have used reliably for 35 years. If you are a UK citizen, then ignore the above.

[dinger]

There are two certain events if you are an American. Death and Taxes

I attached a good calculator for you to search out the answer. Just plug in the numbers and it will give you a pretty good idea.

http://calcxml.com/calculators/how-much-of-my-social-security-benefit-may-be-taxed?skn=

That is a great calculator. I have been try to make some sense out of their tax formula

Thanks

[Doc46]

That depends on what country you come from, you don't pay tax in Thailand from your pension, You don't pay tax on your pension if you come from Australia,any other country I don't know!

[Pib]

No, you don't pay Thailand tax on SS or pensions from the US. There can be tax in the US on your pensions and even your SS if your income is high enough. Some pensions have already been taxed and some haven't. Your 1099 will show taxable portion. I'm thinking somewhere around 38,000 USD (just did the return work in Feb. but still can't remember, have that CRS disease) but don't quote me on that for the beginning of taking the money you worked your ass off for. If when you retire you think your pension + SS will be taxable you can have have some deducted from your pension to pay tax. I have a small amount taken out of one pension and so far I have gotten it back each year.

As an addition to the above, being a US citizen on retirement in Thailand and with the only declared income being SS payments, there are NO income taxes incurred in Thailand. Any income incurred outside of Thailand does not kick off a taxable event.

Also, if SS is the ONLY source of income, there are no longer IRS filing requirements and no taxes are due to the US. If there is other income which one wants to declare, then taxes will be assessed on the extra income, plus some of the SS payments.

This is straight from my US CPA whom I have used reliably for 35 years. If you are a UK citizen, then ignore the above.

The part about not needing to file a federal return if SS is your only source of income is a rule of thumb; not something written in law/in stone. It depends on your total income. But if your total income is basically from SS then your income base amount probably falls below the filing requirement. Here's a couple of links for more info: Link 1 Link 2.

[Suradit69]

I know that you have to pay taxes if you are there for 180 or more.

The way your question is written is rather confusing. Assuming you're from the US ( since you refer to Social Security) and living in Thailand but not working here, you will continue to file a 1040 with the IRS each year and be taxed on your income (or not taxed depending on how much you make) just as you would in the US. If you are working outside the US, under certain circumstances, you're allowed an income exclusion on money EARNED outside the US. I emphasize EARNED because the IRS uses the word basically for salary/wages only, not other forms of income.

The 180 (days?) you refer to has to do with establishing your presence in another country, but only has to do with the possible earned income exclusion when filing your US income tax. If you're not working outside the US and aiming for income exclusion, your length of stay in a foreign country in irrelevant.

Unless you are working in Thailand, you do not have to file or pay income tax in Thailand. Your Social Security and pension payments from the US are not taxed by the Thai government.

If you are going to stay here permanently you should notify Social Security of your Thai address. You can still have your payments deposited in a US bank, but you are required to tell SS of your residential address and they will check from time to time. I just returned a form to them they sent to me two days ago asking to confirm my address and other things.I seem to get one every year.

Edited June 6, 2014 by Suradit69

[rgs2001uk]

I'm no Tax expert nor Pension expert but I am currently looking at transferring my private pension to either a QROP's or SIPPS as I will be looking to retire to Thailand in 5 or so years. I have therefore been asking my financial advisor several questions on this very subject.

If you look at the attached, it seems there is a Double Tax Treaty with Thailand (page 32) but also look at the notes. It doesn't seem to apply to State Pension but it looks like you can claim your private pension gross and opt to pay the tax in Thailand.

As I say, I am no expert on the subject and am in the early throws of my own research, so I am just posting the pdf for you to read yourselves and maybe find of some use. Those in the know may also be able to add some useful comments.

Double Tax Treaties.pdf

I strongly advise you right now to do nothing, I also advise you to seek out at least 2 if not 3 other "financial advisors" (whatever that may mean).

Do a search in the financial forum for QROPS, hopefully GuestHouse will read this and reply, he is more clued up on it than I am.

[PBob]

If you are from the UK it may be best to hold off making any irreversible decisions until the proposed pension legislation changes have progressed. It looks like restrictions on accessing your pension funds will be eased and living overseas may means that you can access these funds tax free.

[poweratradio]

Here in Canada you do have to pay it no matter if your living in Thailand. Around 25%.

[rwing93]

Thanks everyone for all the useful information. By the way I live in the U.S. I guess I should have been a little clearer with the question. When I was asking about taxes from my pension and social security, I meant Thai taxes. Thanks again.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

you will not I repeat you will not be taxed on any income that comes into Thailand pensions or other,but if you work or you have money in any thai bank eg.fixed term accounts you will have tax deducted at 15% as I do and many tv.members we claim it back at the end of the tax yr.you are allowed to earn around 150,000bht before you have to pay any.

There are other threads specifically on this subject, but for this purpose.

I just opened a new, interest paying Thai bank account (regular savings, not fixed term), and was assured there would be NO withholding on my interest payments -- provided my interest earnings with that bank totaled less than 20,000 baht per year.

It seems to me, that's exactly what I've seen other members here post on in the past.

Don't know if all the Thai banks follow that approach, but obviously at least some do.

[Pib]

Thanks everyone for all the useful information. By the way I live in the U.S. I guess I should have been a little clearer with the question. When I was asking about taxes from my pension and social security, I meant Thai taxes. Thanks again.

No Thai taxes on your U.S. income like SS.

Sent from my Samsung S4

[JimHuaHin]

That depends on what country you come from, you don't pay tax in Thailand from your pension, You don't pay tax on your pension if you come from Australia,any other country I don't know!

Is that both government pension and private super pension?

[ubonjoe]

That depends on what country you come from, you don't pay tax in Thailand from your pension, You don't pay tax on your pension if you come from Australia,any other country I don't know!

Is that both government pension and private super pension?

For Thailand no pension is taxable.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Just to re-state what's been stated above:

Thailand doesn't tax pensions.

But, whether your home country taxes your public or private pension when living in another country depends on your home country.

In one example, the U.S. taxes (or tries to) pension and all other income no matter where it citizens may live in the world.