Five dead in Las Vegas shootings

[Bwanatickey]

Looks like another school shooting.

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/shooter-portland-oregon-high-school-confirmed-dead-police-n127401

Shooter at Portland, Oregon, High School Confirmed Dead: Police

collapse story

A shooting suspect at a suburban Portland, Oregon, high school was confirmed dead Tuesday morning, authorities said.

Police said the situation at Reynolds High School in Troutdale was "stabilized" an hour after initial calls came in at 8:07 a.m. PT (11:07 a.m. ET).

Very Sad, but it is not going to stop.

You do not have to be a Rocket Scientists to work out that this is going to happen again, and again.

And again on a Forum the debates will continue.

A no win situation.

[copa8]

I was just in Vegas in March. I went there as a stepping off point - to visiting some national parks. What can a person say about beserk shootings like this? Too many (and easy availability of) guns are just part of the equation. More relevant are the problems with managing/mismanaging big brains which all humans have. Even Norway was not spared, and it's waaaay more sane than most other countries.

Norway has less people than most US cities. Even Hong Kong has more people.

[ClutchClark]

Latest news reporting states that the 3rd shooting victim, a female civilian, was armed and attempted to exchange gunfire with the man/woman couple who had just shot down 2 Law Enforcement Officers. She was killed moments later.

Wrong again.

The "female civilian" was a man.

-

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The deadly rampage in the aging shopping center about 5 miles northeast of the Las Vegas Strip unfolded in a matter of minutes.

The suspects then fled on foot to a nearby Wal-Mart, where Jerad Miller fired a single shot upon entering, police said. A patron at the store who carried a firearm confronted Jerad Miller, not realizing that he was accompanied by Amanda Miller, who shot and killed the man, police said. He was identified as 31-year-old Joseph Wilcox of Las Vegas.

Joseph died trying to protect others, Sheriff Doug Gillespie said.

http://lasvegas.cbslocal.com/2014/06/09/neighbor-gunman-dressed-up-as-slenderman-joker/

chuckieD,

It wasn't me that was wrong, it was the author of the article I read:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2652306/BREAKING-As-five-people-feared-dead-Las-Vegas-shooting.html

You know, chuck, your interest in me is a bit unsettling. I take some comfort in the fact you don't know where I live. ;-)

[NeverSure]

I'm tired of this and this will be my last post in this thread. Go ahed,

If it's the shooting of 5 police officers in Canada last week and the death of three, or the knife murders of three rubber tappers in Thailand last week, the thread is quickly abandoned and soon disappears from the front page. That despite the fact that Canada has only 1/10th the population of the US and gun control. That despite the fact that Thailand's gun murder rate per capita is the 3rd highest in the world. People will sit in a very dangerous Thailand and moan about the much safer US, which they've probably never experienced.

"Freedom isn't Free." I'm a risk taker by nature. I'm willing to take a lot of risk for my freedom. I'm willing to die for it. I'm not some pantywaist who expects my nanny state to take care of me if I give them my freedoms.

I have a concealed handgun license. I've been vetted, fingerprinted, and I've passed a test after taking a class that lasted two days. I can legally carry my concealed handgun into any public school from pre-school through university and the school can't stop me. But it's not guys like me who do these shootings. I've never heard of a guy with a license creating havoc with gun.

People seem almost panicked and OCD about the US gun culture but it isn't any of their business if they aren't a US citizen. I get the impression that some people from other countries are cowards who want to hide behind the apron skirt of their nanny state but in doing so give up their freedoms.

They also give up the security of their country. Ever wonder why no one has ever tried invading the continental US and its 48 states? I'll give you 100 million reasons why. It would be suicide. The US military has fewer than 2 million members and they are scattered around the globe. 100 million citizens are in place and ready. There is no registry of where all the guns are and going door to door to try to find them would be suicide.

If the government passed a law that so many foreigners seem to want, outlawing private gun ownership, they would be dead before they collected 10% of them. There would be blood running down the streets in a revolution.

Those Americans who are anti-gun are presumed to not have one and are what we call a soft target. They'd best just stay inside with their teddy bears while the men and women of courage take care of business.

No amount of moaning by people from other countries who don't have the guts to be prepared to defend themselves and their countries will change the culture of The United States Of America.

12 million Jews gave up their guns to Hitler, and 6 million died. Take a lesson from that. If violence becomes necessary and I die, I'm going to die with my boots on, as a man.

[ClutchClark]

I'm tired of this and this will be my last post in this thread. Go ahed,

If it's the shooting of 5 police officers in Canada last week and the death of three, or the knife murders of three rubber tappers in Thailand last week, the thread is quickly abandoned and soon disappears from the front page. That despite the fact that Canada has only 1/10th the population of the US and gun control. That despite the fact that Thailand's gun murder rate per capita is the 3rd highest in the world. People will sit in a very dangerous Thailand and moan about the much safer US, which they've probably never experienced.

"Freedom isn't Free." I'm a risk taker by nature. I'm willing to take a lot of risk for my freedom. I'm willing to die for it. I'm not some pantywaist who expects my nanny state to take care of me if I give them my freedoms.

I have a concealed handgun license. I've been vetted, fingerprinted, and I've passed a test after taking a class that lasted two days. I can legally carry my concealed handgun into any public school from pre-school through university and the school can't stop me. But it's not guys like me who do these shootings. I've never heard of a guy with a license creating havoc with gun.

People seem almost panicked and OCD about the US gun culture but it isn't any of their business if they aren't a US citizen. I get the impression that some people from other countries are cowards who want to hide behind the apron skirt of their nanny state but in doing so give up their freedoms.

They also give up the security of their country. Ever wonder why no one has ever tried invading the continental US and its 48 states? I'll give you 100 million reasons why. It would be suicide. The US military has fewer than 2 million members and they are scattered around the globe. 100 million citizens are in place and ready. There is no registry of where all the guns are and going door to door to try to find them would be suicide.

If the government passed a law that so many foreigners seem to want, outlawing private gun ownership, they would be dead before they collected 10% of them. There would be blood running down the streets in a revolution.

Those Americans who are anti-gun are presumed to not have one and are what we call a soft target. They'd best just stay inside with their teddy bears while the men and women of courage take care of business.

No amount of moaning by people from other countries who don't have the guts to be prepared to defend themselves and their countries will change the culture of The United States Of America.

12 million Jews gave up their guns to Hitler, and 6 million died. Take a lesson from that. If violence becomes necessary and I die, I'm going to die with my boots on, as a man.

Whether someone agrees or disagrees with NeverSure, one thing is certain about his contributions. He speaks honestly about his position and his views are representative of a large part of the American gun-owning population.

One can argue they seem to focus more on "what-if" scenarios and threats rather than the actual events of gun violence that are occurring with increased frequency year upon year, but no one can deny NeverSure has honestly defended his position in an effort to get others to understand.

For that, I appreciate his contributions.

[ClutchClark]

Another school shooting todaygo America.you are the best.

According to CNN:

The gunman was a student at the high school and thought to have used a rifle.

No details on how the gunman gained access to the firearm (if the student is 18 then it could have been purchased legally) or how he was able to sneak it into the school without detection.

One student was killed by the gunman and the HS-age gunman is also reported dead.

More shattered families. More senseless loss of life.

[folium]

I'm tired of this and this will be my last post in this thread. Go ahed,

If it's the shooting of 5 police officers in Canada last week and the death of three, or the knife murders of three rubber tappers in Thailand last week, the thread is quickly abandoned and soon disappears from the front page. That despite the fact that Canada has only 1/10th the population of the US and gun control. That despite the fact that Thailand's gun murder rate per capita is the 3rd highest in the world. People will sit in a very dangerous Thailand and moan about the much safer US, which they've probably never experienced.

"Freedom isn't Free." I'm a risk taker by nature. I'm willing to take a lot of risk for my freedom. I'm willing to die for it. I'm not some pantywaist who expects my nanny state to take care of me if I give them my freedoms.

I have a concealed handgun license. I've been vetted, fingerprinted, and I've passed a test after taking a class that lasted two days. I can legally carry my concealed handgun into any public school from pre-school through university and the school can't stop me. But it's not guys like me who do these shootings. I've never heard of a guy with a license creating havoc with gun.

People seem almost panicked and OCD about the US gun culture but it isn't any of their business if they aren't a US citizen. I get the impression that some people from other countries are cowards who want to hide behind the apron skirt of their nanny state but in doing so give up their freedoms.

They also give up the security of their country. Ever wonder why no one has ever tried invading the continental US and its 48 states? I'll give you 100 million reasons why. It would be suicide. The US military has fewer than 2 million members and they are scattered around the globe. 100 million citizens are in place and ready. There is no registry of where all the guns are and going door to door to try to find them would be suicide.

If the government passed a law that so many foreigners seem to want, outlawing private gun ownership, they would be dead before they collected 10% of them. There would be blood running down the streets in a revolution.

Those Americans who are anti-gun are presumed to not have one and are what we call a soft target. They'd best just stay inside with their teddy bears while the men and women of courage take care of business.

No amount of moaning by people from other countries who don't have the guts to be prepared to defend themselves and their countries will change the culture of The United States Of America.

12 million Jews gave up their guns to Hitler, and 6 million died. Take a lesson from that. If violence becomes necessary and I die, I'm going to die with my boots on, as a man.

Oh dear....

Good to hear that you keep your boots on in bed and with your "piece" to hand, ready to defend all that is great about the US. For other people (including many US citizens) who might not fall into your oh-so complimentary categories of "pantywaist" or "coward", but who have the temerity to hold a view somewhat different to yours and see the world and potential threats to the US in a slightly different light, perhaps they are happier relying on trained police and military rather than leaving national security to weekend warriors who like to dress up and play with their toys.

Perhaps gun owners are like the poor saps who bought into the Marlboro Man adverts and overlooked the simple fact that the product they thought made them cool and manly was actually killing them, their friends and families.

But as you correctly state, it's up to US voters to decide what's best. If the level of gun related deaths are within tolerance levels so be it...it's entirely up to you guys. But don't be surprised if even those who are not "pantywaists" or "cowards" (in the US and beyond) find it somewhat strange...

PS back to the history classroom...

in 1933 the Jewish population of Germany was just over 500,000. By 1939 some 300,000 had thankfully fled. So somewhat intrigued about the "12 million Jews who gave up their guns to Hitler". This tired old canard really needs to be put to rest especially when your numbers don't even add up....

But wait, there's more....

the obviously "non-pantywaist, non-coward" types don't seem to have done a great job in 1814, when, having locked the little Corsican up in Elba (sadly only temporarily), the British were able to properly respond to the repeated US assaults on Canada by invading the USA. While ultimately unsuccessful at least we managed to demolish much of Alexandria VA and torch the White House. My old Regiment likes to claim that we were the arsonists responsible, a story that one of my brother-officers couldn't resist telling a somewhat surprised George HW at a reception in DC shortly after the 1st Gulf War! Perhaps you missed that particular history lesson......

[Scott]

Off-topic posts and replies deleted along with posts with messed up quotes.

[ravip]

In less than one week, we had the gunman on the Seattle Campus.

We had the gunman at the Georgia courthouse.

And now we have this heartbreaking cold-blooded mass shooting.

When is the senseless gun violence going to stop?

What is it going to take for Americans to recognize they have a serious problem and it needs to be treated?

why does anyone necessarily need treatment?

The attackers shouted "This is a revolution".

Where would America be today if everyone in 1775 had cried out for people to be treated?

So, today any one could shout "This is a revolution" and kill as many people as possible?

​(Well... this is happening in a 'different' manner to-day, isn't it? It is just a matter of choosing the correct words to justify or condemn any action)

[Ulysses G.]

in 1933 the Jewish population of Germany was just over 500,000.

He probably meant in Europe, rather than Germany, although it was a little less than 12 million. They were murdered all over the continent and, if they had weapons, it probably never would have happened.

I'm reading a great book now called "The Avengers" about how fierce the Jewish partisans were in WW2 and how Goebbel's complained about how efficient "Jews with weapons" were. I have always wondered how so many Jews got slaughtered by the Germans, but were so effective in Israel. It was a combination of Jewish immigrants renouncing pacifism, being well armed and having had the experience of fighting overwhelming against odds in Europe and not trusting anyone to help them out - because pretty much no one did.

They were not just murdered during the war, but also when they tried to return to their homes all over Europe afterwards. That is why so many moved to the promised land and fought like demons to keep from being wiped out completely. Mao had it right when he said, political power grows out of the barrel of a gun

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been deleted.

Please stay on topic.

[NeverSure]

-snip-

But wait, there's more....

the obviously "non-pantywaist, non-coward" types don't seem to have done a great job in 1814, when, having locked the little Corsican up in Elba (sadly only temporarily), the British were able to properly respond to the repeated US assaults on Canada by invading the USA. While ultimately unsuccessful at least we managed to demolish much of Alexandria VA and torch the White House. My old Regiment likes to claim that we were the arsonists responsible, a story that one of my brother-officers couldn't resist telling a somewhat surprised George HW at a reception in DC shortly after the 1st Gulf War! Perhaps you missed that particular history lesson......

I said I wasn't going to post again, but this is over the top. Read again.

I said no one had tried to invade the 48 states in the continental US. How many states did the US have when the "world's police," the British, did that? How long has the US been big enough and strong enough to have 48 states and enough people to finally stop the British for good?

America learned a lot of lessons early on, written in blood and largely by the invasive British. The British are largely responsible for the American gun culture which is all about defending the person and the country. The right to keep and bear arms is a direct result of the actions of the British.

Americans are totally different and won't give up their guns.

[Scott]

I think with that we can discontinue with the off-topic posting.

There are non-Americans who do have reason to be concerned about gun issues in the states. I know some who have children who attend school in the US and I also know some of who routinely have to travel to the states on business. None of them have ever expressed any concerns about the Declaration of Independence or the Constitution, however.

None of them post on this forum.

But let's stick to the topic of the thread.

[Chicog]

But as you correctly state, it's up to US voters to decide what's best.

It's up to bought and paid for politicians to decide what's best. That's the sad thing.

[rijb]

Just in, a shoot-out with a good ending ... http://news.yahoo.com/two-men-girl-human-shield-until-her-father-040007545.html

[Ulysses G.]

Good ending indeed.

[ClutchClark]

Just in, a shoot-out with a good ending ... http://news.yahoo.com/two-men-girl-human-shield-until-her-father-040007545.html

Yes, guns kept in the home for home protection can be lifesavers. They can also result in accidental shootings if not maintained responsibly and they can be stolen and used to kill people if they are not properly locked up by new or careless gunowners.

The only thing that was not mentioned in the article is whether any of the family members attempted to phone 911 when they witnessed the abduction or if there was even time to do so. Perhaps there was not time.

The Castle Doctrine is accepted in American culture and is not threatened by the attempts to strengthen gun laws in the aftermath of Sandy Hook Elementary or the other numerous mass shootings.

[Chicog]

Just in, a shoot-out with a good ending ... http://news.yahoo.com/two-men-girl-human-shield-until-her-father-040007545.html

OK so I'll just change this then.

"Someone with access to firearms is three times more likely to commit suicide and nearly twice as likely to be the victim of a homicide as someone who does not have access - apart from the two in St. Louis"

[rijb]

Wow! That's a shot in the dark.

[Scott]

Off-topic posts removed.

[metisdead]

An off topic deflection post has been removed as well as the subsequent replies. This is not about George Zimmerman.

[Jay Sata]

In less than one week, we had the gunman on the Seattle Campus.

We had the gunman at the Georgia courthouse.

And now we have this heartbreaking cold-blooded mass shooting.

When is the senseless gun violence going to stop?

What is it going to take for Americans to recognize they have a serious problem and it needs to be treated?

It's open season every day for the NRA.

That should be their slogan bud sadly the recipients of the the bullets are often not game that can be bought in the supermarkets but innocent civilians.

The NRA represent redneck America at its worst.

As a result we read about these shootings on a regular basis.

When will the USA learn that guns kill and they need strict control?

[CMNightRider]

I believe this is the kind of thing mrowe is referring to

The problem that I see in your video montage is that none of them starts at the beginning of an incident. We do not see the behaviors that led to the original arrest. If you can provide some video clips that provide a full story it would be far more helpful.

Also, the poster I was referring to was speaking in the first person about his own experience and he indicated he was breaking the law when approached by police.

Thank you for participating.

LOL

you can try to duck and weave as much as you like, but the issue of police brutality against innocent victims sticks out like a sore thumb, which is corroborated on this eyewitness News report by a lady who phoned and said she saw the whole thing

Kern County Sheriff Donny Youngblood said that after an autopsy, Silva’s death had been ruled accidental by a pathologist, and the primary cause listed was hypertensive heart disease. The coroner also found alcohol and methamphetamines in Silva's system. Youngblood said deputies followed policy and never hit Silva in the head or neck, and the autopsy showed the blows to his midsection were not fatal. The report said a bruise on his face was from falling to the ground.

The police aren't running around beating innocent people. Although, I do believe the police should be allowed to beat liberals in an attempt to knock some sense into their thick skulls, lol.

[CMNightRider]

In less than one week, we had the gunman on the Seattle Campus.

We had the gunman at the Georgia courthouse.

And now we have this heartbreaking cold-blooded mass shooting.

When is the senseless gun violence going to stop?

What is it going to take for Americans to recognize they have a serious problem and it needs to be treated?

It's open season every day for the NRA.

That should be their slogan bud sadly the recipients of the the bullets are often not game that can be bought in the supermarkets but innocent civilians.

The NRA represent redneck America at its worst.

As a result we read about these shootings on a regular basis.

When will the USA learn that guns kill and they need strict control?

Guns don't kill people. People kill people. It's that simple. "If guns were outlawed, only the outlaws would have guns." If you don't like guns, don't but one.

[Chicog]

In less than one week, we had the gunman on the Seattle Campus.

We had the gunman at the Georgia courthouse.

And now we have this heartbreaking cold-blooded mass shooting.

When is the senseless gun violence going to stop?

What is it going to take for Americans to recognize they have a serious problem and it needs to be treated?

It's open season every day for the NRA.

That should be their slogan bud sadly the recipients of the the bullets are often not game that can be bought in the supermarkets but innocent civilians.

The NRA represent redneck America at its worst.

As a result we read about these shootings on a regular basis.

When will the USA learn that guns kill and they need strict control?

Guns don't kill people. People kill people. It's that simple. "If guns were outlawed, only the outlaws would have guns." If you don't like guns, don't but one.

And where has anyone said guns should be outlawed?

[neverdie]

More people die in motor vehicle "accidents" but the governments want to keep people driving when they have absolutely no idea of what they are doing. Maybe we should ban cars as well ?

Judging by the intelligence of the electorate in this country, not many people should drive.

JMHO

The topic is death due to gun violence, not motor vehicle accidents. Both are problems, but are completely unrelated, as are the solutions to these problems. Surely you can see that.

It's pretty obvious where you stand on the gun control issue. Do you think there is any correlation at all between the availability of guns in America and death/injuries due to guns? Just a yes/no answer would suffice.

Recent Harvard Study: Gun Control Is Counterproductive. http://theacru.org/acru/harvard_study_gun_control_is_counterproductive/

It's been proven over and over. The cities/nations with the most stringent gun control laws have the highest rates of murder by guns. The answer is to deal with the mentally ill, not gun owners. Period.

What a load of tosh. It is clear what agenda you drive.

[neverdie]

You can almost cherry pick what you like from that paper.

That goes for anything as you have proven here and many times before. It is a national survey, not an "article" and it refutes the narrative that you want to create. The fact is that a lot of people successfully defend themselves from criminals with legal fire arms every single year. You can quibble about exactly how many if you like.

And alot of innocent people are shot with firearms every year.

And therein lies the problem with the pro gun advocate viewpoint. They pretend none of the negatives exist.

How you doin' today UG? Finally getting over your bad spell?

CC,

The same nonsensical rubbish from the same people who have convinced themselves the the USA has special laws of gravity. These boys sling their guns and fight stupidity with more stupidity.

I admire your work but ur trying to sell good sense and a better way to people who must secretly enjoy the bloodshed. There's no other explanation for it.

[ClutchClark]

In less than one week, we had the gunman on the Seattle Campus.

We had the gunman at the Georgia courthouse.

And now we have this heartbreaking cold-blooded mass shooting.

When is the senseless gun violence going to stop?

What is it going to take for Americans to recognize they have a serious problem and it needs to be treated?

It's open season every day for the NRA.

That should be their slogan bud sadly the recipients of the the bullets are often not game that can be bought in the supermarkets but innocent civilians.

The NRA represent redneck America at its worst.

As a result we read about these shootings on a regular basis.

When will the USA learn that guns kill and they need strict control?

Guns don't kill people. People kill people. It's that simple. "If guns were outlawed, only the outlaws would have guns." If you don't like guns, don't but one.

And where has anyone said guns should be outlawed?

The pro-gun crowd only have very few talking points and, occasionally, none fit the particular situation but they feel obligated to post something ;-)

[Scott]

An off-topic post has been deleted.

[CMNightRider]

In less than one week, we had the gunman on the Seattle Campus.

We had the gunman at the Georgia courthouse.

And now we have this heartbreaking cold-blooded mass shooting.

When is the senseless gun violence going to stop?

What is it going to take for Americans to recognize they have a serious problem and it needs to be treated?

It's open season every day for the NRA.

That should be their slogan bud sadly the recipients of the the bullets are often not game that can be bought in the supermarkets but innocent civilians.

The NRA represent redneck America at its worst.

As a result we read about these shootings on a regular basis.

When will the USA learn that guns kill and they need strict control?

Guns don't kill people. People kill people. It's that simple. "If guns were outlawed, only the outlaws would have guns." If you don't like guns, don't but one.

And where has anyone said guns should be outlawed?

Anti-gun nuts like California Senator Dianne Feinstein is one example.